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cnsolo
01-02-2013, 10:34 PM
Hi there folks. Have played many a game of DC DB and have come to a conclusion after about thirty games. Does Superman ever win? As a DC fanboy, I had hoped to see an epic ability on Superman's card. It's good, but not as good as the other heroes IMHO. He has been drawn randomly about five times and has been chosen off the hop three and seems to never get the *umph* the extra card draw of Cyborg/Flash/Wonder Woman... or proc +3 (or better) than GL, Batman stomps him hard (had prep time) and Aquaman is actually very decent. So what is the deal here? Was it through play testing and a Man of Steel going off with a deck loaded with Superpowers that prompted the ability to be hampered so? Is there another Superman Hero Card coming in a later expansion? Is this Superman suffering from green k-rock? I mean really, he seems to be very.... underwhelmingman.... not super.

Just my ramblings... wanted some feedback from others. Please don't take mine to seriously, but, I have removed him from the seven stack of heroes, as nobody in my gaming group (eight people) are interested in playing with him.... kinda sucks having to do that, but, didn't want anyone to feel handicapped (as one person put it).... :(

If anyone has found that they have had positive experience/know some great combos aside from MOS or Bat-signal and Robin.... then please post I would love to hear your thoughts. Absolutely loving the game, got it for Christmas, as well as Munchkin (1 game), Gloom (2 games), and Seafarers Cataan (still sealed)...

It really feels like in a hand with four punches, Supes is the "vulnerability" card. Thanks for listening and hope to hear your feedback soon.

cervidal
01-03-2013, 12:46 AM
Turn 1, buy Kick

Turn 2, buy Kick

Turn 3, buy as many Kicks as possible

Turn 4, see a super power other than Kick? No? Buy up more kicks.

Turn 5, any Heat or X-Ray Visions around? Otherwise, finish off buying the kicks.

Any character that can turn 3 buy into 3 more buy every turn can get pretty silly in a hurry.

Combine with any real deck thinners and you'll be calling Superman Chun-Li in no time.

Somnia
01-03-2013, 02:56 AM
I suggest you re-read Superman's card. A deck full of kicks isn't doing much.

sivartalappes
01-03-2013, 07:43 AM
I've been saying all along (since the game came out) that Superman is FAR weaker than he should be. The official response (IE someone from Cryptozoic responded) is that the superpowers are strong enough on their own to make Supes' +1 for each different one worth it... I, like you, disagree. I've only seen Supes win once, and that was because he managed to buy Man of Steel early on and on the last turn of the game played it to bring FOURTEEN superpower cards to his hand!

sivartalappes
01-03-2013, 07:44 AM
I suggest you re-read Superman's card. A deck full of kicks isn't doing much.

Buying all the kicks does seem a decent strategy for Superman, though, because it's a stalling move until better superpowers pop. And you'll be able to afford Man of Steel any time it comes out.

jbabel
01-03-2013, 08:17 AM
I think Supes is on par with the rest. The only draw back is there is less superpowers in the main deck than other cards (equipment I'm look at you) and they tend to be fought over. Now kicks are used to supplement this (or for use with supergirl if she pops early). While I do think he's a touch weaker than Bats he is by no means a zero.

cervidal
01-03-2013, 12:10 PM
I suggest you re-read Superman's card. A deck full of kicks isn't doing much.

What am I missing? Kick is a Super Power, Superman gets +1 power for every superpower he plays.

When I played this game as a demo during the CZE tour, it was confirmed by Phil Cape that different means different card, not different name.

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

aoineko
01-03-2013, 12:19 PM
Different Superpower means different name. Notice how Superman is worded differently than Batman.

cervidal
01-03-2013, 12:59 PM
You might want to ask the game developers on that one. If that's how you're interpreting it, it's definitely not how they intended it.

While you're at it, ask 'em about Wild Attunement, too. Their interpretation was substantially different than the ones in this set's FAQs.

LexLuthorJr
01-03-2013, 02:13 PM
+1 for each different name, not physical card. If X-Ray Vision reveals another X-Ray, it's +1 total for the two X-Rays.

Matt Hyra is a member of Cryptozoic's R&D.

Ssobaekil
01-03-2013, 04:06 PM
Superman is actually not bad. If you are complaining about Superman... Have you not played Batman? Batman is by far worse.... Sups has a kick pile to start off.

Just have someone else play as sups for a change or have 1 person keep playing him. Each hero has a different comfort zone persay... You just gota find it.

cnsolo
01-03-2013, 04:14 PM
Hi again, original poster here... and LexJr has it right, the text on Supes reads:

"+1 Power for each different Super Power you play during your turn."

So. The best you can hope for is one of each of the following to happen... X-ray vision (+1), Super speed (+2), Kick (+3), Heat Vision (+4), Bulletproof (+5) and finally Super Strength (+6). Done. If you happen to luck out to getting all of these at once you are staring at +18 from those six cards... but the odds of getting all those? (only played when MOS is involved and a BIG discard pile). In all the games I have played to date, Super Speed and Bulletproof are insta-grabbed when they hit the lineup. The defense point is enough that everyone makes sure to pull it into their deck. Super Strengths don't last long either, neither do Heat Visions. So you might be able to get to +2 most of the time... (kick, x-ray). Where Bats can drop Nth Metals (3), Power Ring (2), Bat-Signal (2) and Batmobile... (+8).... or more.... more equipment the better...

Sorry to all who might have thought otherwise, it's not a glaring issue, just an ability that could use a little luster... know what I mean? One of the guys from my gaming group suggested we toy around with a house rule for a different ability for him. Any thoughts here? Would love Matt's input on this, but I am sure the ruling is the way the card is written here and as I said before, this may not be the only version of Superman we see.

Ssobaekil
01-03-2013, 04:16 PM
The thing is though..... you are not trying to get every different super power each turn... You just want 1 or 2 in each hand. Having 1 - 2 extra power each turn is HUGE! Especially early in the game, which Sups can do seeing as how kick is available early.

cnsolo
01-03-2013, 04:22 PM
Superman is actually not bad. If you are complaining about Superman... Have you not played Batman? Batman is by far worse.... Sups has a kick pile to start off.

Just have someone else play as sups for a change or have 1 person keep playing him. Each hero has a different comfort zone persay... You just gota find it.

Understood, not complaining about Supes here, but Batman has been able to reel of an impressive set of wins with multiple people playing him. He is one of the best for sure... card draw for Flash/Diana/Cyborg (in that order) are worth their weight in comparison. Superman only gets +1 on the first kick and that's it. So yes, early game is decent, but late game with crazy stuff going on, Superman has trouble punching through. If you have had success with Superman (as long as he is being played correctly) then please share those instances, cause they are just not happening here.

I apologize if it is +1 for every single use super power up front. We had been playing him with +1 for each different one, (max +6, as there are 6 different super power cards)

Thanks for the input thus far everyone.

dynamic_duo
01-03-2013, 06:15 PM
We have had different discussions on if Superman is actually weaker than Batman. Our arguments literally go back and forth all the time. Most feel that Batman is Superior because he is harder to hate draft against. I think the Super Heroes are well-balanced and depending on the flip of the line-up any Hero is as defeatable as the next. But that is why your suppose to choose your Super Heroes at random.

cnsolo
01-03-2013, 09:51 PM
Tonight's big 1v1 game was me with Supes (yes unretired... giving him another shot and yes... a random draw to) versus my son playing Cyborg. This was an "On Patrol" game where I was able to secure all five locations (by game's end) and card draw was out of control. Unfortunately... Supes did not do well. His best hand was +2 to his ability and a four turns I missed on playing an ability at all... that really sucked. Early game Cyborg wrecked every turn and was doing what he does best... everything... lol. I missed on MOS about mid game. Cyborg picked him up next turn and was able to utilize his power twice hitting for +31 and +42 respectfully. With the main deck down to eleven cards and the super-villains defeated we counted point totals. Superman 78.... wait for it... Cyborg 153.... ugh. Nearly double points. With the exception of the two MOSes going off, I thought I was keeping up in fact in one turn thanks to card draw (and a timely FMA and clayface) I had 23 cards played at turn end. It made me feel like I was keeping up, but in the end... ya... I have no idea what to say. He was able to grab five of the SS cards, all the utility belts... and defeated 5 of 8 super-villains. Grrrrrr, maybe next time supes. That was the first time I played "On Patrol" it was very interesting and the introduction of that mechanic changed what I drew every turn.

Still not feeling the Superman love folks.... perhaps he is really meant for multiplayer? :)

LexLuthorJr
01-03-2013, 10:00 PM
I've played with Superman three times and won two of those games. One win was against Flash and Batman, and the other was against Batman, Green Lantern, and Aquaman. I think part of the issue is not getting too hung up on the characters' abilities and just trying to play smart and get lucky. The one game I lost with Superman actually came down to Batman buying Princess Diana of Themyscira on turn three. He just piled up on villains until the game ended.

Ssobaekil
01-04-2013, 08:12 AM
Exactly what Lex said. There are cards that just do work in this game! Taking x-ray vision early game in a 1v1 is a dumb move as you will hit punch or vuln.

On patrol is a stupid variant if you ask me. The only hero it works against really is aquaman for the most part. If you play this, you dump your entire hand, add your power then continue to buy cards. The number of villains that DO anything at that point are Scarecrow x3, ivy x3, quinn x3 - i think thats it. Bane - does nothing, starro - oh boy.. discard for nothing.... I feel like im missing an attack, i just woke up.... haha. But that is such a low chance that if you dont flip a new card you are dumb!! Thus the game "snowballs" very quickly! Whoever has a lucky line up followed by new card flips on their turn gets more power for their new hands then buys more good cards, then has more power.... etc.....

Just give Sups more time in a regular 1v1. And play him different each time. Dont make the same moves if you keep losing