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View Full Version : First Turn 3-player game with WW - What do I pick?



zimagic
01-04-2013, 06:11 AM
I got the game last weekend and have been playing constantly ever since, introducing it to all my gaming group in various game sizes. We tend towards multi-player games (though my preference for DC is 1v1) and the following situation came up today. We're playing 3-man: Me starting with WW, Aquaman to my left and Batman going third.

My opening hand is 4 Punches & 1 Weakness. We flip:
Nth Metal
Penguin
Arkham Asylum
Lobo
Supergirl

My general game plan is an early Nth Metal except if there's an obviously better card for my Super-Hero. What I really want here is to finish with Lobo in my deck and Pengiun to churn through faster to find him more often. As a long term game plan, it's much more solid than Nth Metal. What I'd settle for is essentially everything except Supergirl (though she's a short-cut to Lobo).

Had I been going second or third the choice would have been much easier as my line of play would have been dictated by Nth Metal being gone.

Between Penguin (that will trigger WW and make my deck spin that much faster) and Nth Metal, I took the Metal.

What would you have done here?

For the record, Batman got a fast start and the Lobo anyway and proceeded to destroy us: 2x Super Strength, Man of Steel, 2x Power Ring and an early Darkseid kill allowed him to make his deck stupidly small and churn through it in 2 hands.

darkjawa103
01-04-2013, 07:38 AM
1st turn always play off your ability. Thats my opinion anyway.

Ssobaekil
01-04-2013, 08:04 AM
to be honest... that board sucks. Seeing as how u had 4/1, i would take the penguin. This means u draw 3 power and 2 blanks, then u shuffle. The worst that could happen is you draw another blank, if so, you just cycled it out for your next hand. However, this allows you to possibly get the penguin to guarentee get 4 power with a chance at 5. This gives you more options for your second turn, where at batman is stuck (and will most likely take Nth metal if aquaman does not take it, which depends on the power he draws). Aquaman could alter his second hand from his ability too.

But having 4 power on turn 2 opens you for cards like bulletproof, the cape and the cowel, and suicide squad. 5 power hits locations, the 4 drop villain to gain 3 power, or just 2 cards such (whatever they may be).

Plus that early in the game, penguin is the one of the best cards to get. He cycles and beefs your hand most of the time.

LexLuthorJr
01-04-2013, 09:29 AM
I would have gone with Nth Metal as well. Your chances of destroying useless cards early is a great advantage for later in the game.

zimagic
01-04-2013, 09:47 AM
to be honest... that board sucks. Seeing as how u had 4/1, i would take the penguin. This means u draw 3 power and 2 blanks, then u shuffle. The worst that could happen is you draw another blank, if so, you just cycled it out for your next hand. However, this allows you to possibly get the penguin to guarentee get 4 power with a chance at 5. This gives you more options for your second turn, where at batman is stuck (and will most likely take Nth metal if aquaman does not take it, which depends on the power he draws). Aquaman could alter his second hand from his ability too.

But having 4 power on turn 2 opens you for cards like bulletproof, the cape and the cowel, and suicide squad. 5 power hits locations, the 4 drop villain to gain 3 power, or just 2 cards such (whatever they may be).

Plus that early in the game, penguin is the one of the best cards to get. He cycles and beefs your hand most of the time.

You see this is my doubt. My worst second turn hand would be 3P/3W which is a Kick. My best would be 3P/2W and the reshuffled Penguin which would essentially be a 5P/1W hand which allows me to buy Arkham Asylum on the second turn. The middle is also gas being a 4P/2W hand allowing either a decent 3-4 cost purchase or, at very worse, a kick which I'd have anyway with my 3P/3W hand. All this is obviously just based on the initial line-up and not what flops out after.

I'm fairly sure now I misplayed by taking the Nth Metal as Penguin into Arkham Asylum is a much stronger play for where I'd like my deck to go. It doesn't give me a better line of Lobo but does let me set it up. I'm not sure it would have been enough (being draw dependant) to have nabbed the Lobo before Batman in the actual game but I think it's what I should have done.

Ssobaekil
01-04-2013, 04:09 PM
Lobo is not that good! By this i mean if he is on the board for the 1st line up, he isnt the card you should race to. The location does more over the long run. He is a nice pick, but build you deck before you want to start banishing a ton of cards. Nontheless if you happen to get 7 power, yes buy him. But if you have 7 power and any location hits the board (earlish in the game), you take the location.

darkjawa103
01-04-2013, 07:30 PM
Lobo is not that good! By this i mean if he is on the board for the 1st line up, he isnt the card you should race to. The location does more over the long run. He is a nice pick, but build you deck before you want to start banishing a ton of cards. Nontheless if you happen to get 7 power, yes buy him. But if you have 7 power and any location hits the board (earlish in the game), you take the location.

agree with this 100%. I have played games that I let the fact that I got a location early dictate which way to build my deck.

Clavaat
01-04-2013, 08:47 PM
...You can't count on a location coming out. There are so many cards in the MD, and only 5 or 6 locations, half of which would probably do you no good. Lobo is one of the better cards in the MD. Destruction is insanely important as it keeps your deck small. Being a 7 cost, you can build a bit before getting him, then get rid of all of your Vulnerabilities. Even if you just bought kicks up until that point, your pointspread for a hand is great compared to being weighed down with those Vulns! Not to mention, you should almost never have Weaknesses, because they will just be deleted later. Oh, and +3 power, why the hell not.

Now, as WW, you'd have a tough time here because Arkham would do wonders for you, but everyone should be going for Lobo, and maybe someone else to block your Arkham. If you get enough bad draws you can't get 5 that is.

Ssobaekil
01-04-2013, 08:58 PM
The Fact is that he wants a response for this specific situation, which can transfer to different plays later too, and the fact is that there is a location on the board, as is lobo. Lobo is not a game changing card with the potential to just open up a game.

All the locations are no matter what. If you get 1 - 3 uses per deck cycle, thats still GREAT! However, WW will get one almost every turn later game, and penguin cycles to other things faster too.

The race to lobo does not matter. If you get 7, you buy it if there are no locations on the board OR "the dark knight, Man of steel, or Princess Diana" Those can change games due to the fact they CAN snag multiple cards for multiple VP's. The man of steel is the only consistent card in those. (Read 1v1 overpowered thread by me, i have issues with man of steel).

The Fact is, for the board, his / her opening hand, and the fact he went 1st.... the best play is penguin and to attempt to get the location either turn 2, or 3 as he / she has the best odds to snag it. Aquaman could get it if they opened with 2 power, or 3 power (buy kick), then draw 3 punches behind it. Id take my odds that ill get it though.

Clavaat
01-04-2013, 11:26 PM
Ya, I agree with the choice for his specific board.

However, as far as locations are concerned, they are only really useful to those who make specific use of it. If I were Batman and Utility Belt and Arkham were on the board (no WW's), I would easily pick the Utility Belt. 5 VP's vs. 1 potential draw? I honestly think some of the best cards in MD are the "four other" cards, Green Arrow and Utility Belt, hell even Suicide Squad. 2^n VP's are worth more than locations to me. Between my group, we almost never get the MD down to 0, and it's probably due in part to this fact. We only really go for the cards that fit to our particular deck, not just filling up our decks with stuff because they have VP's. Maybe it's just the PA DBG in us (we have played that one to death), but going for Supervillains and high VP cards while keeping our decks small seems like the best strategy. By the end of the game, my buddy with Lobo and Bulletproof got his deck down to 15 cards, but was able to draw his entire deck, so a Supervillain every turn.

zimagic
01-05-2013, 02:49 AM
Maybe it's just the PA DBG in us (we have played that one to death), but going for Supervillains and high VP cards while keeping our decks small seems like the best strategy. By the end of the game, my buddy with Lobo and Bulletproof got his deck down to 15 cards, but was able to draw his entire deck, so a Supervillain every turn.

This is my DBG experience too: Min/max your deck to allow you to have a near optimum hand every turn. This is why I'd aim for Lobo before AAsylum. Sure, in WW if you have the chance to snag AA and don't have the 7 for Lobo, it's a no-brainer and you take it. But given a 7 Power hand and both on the board in the early game, I'd still plump for Lobo over AA every time.

Everyone wants Lobo. AA is really only useful to you as the WW player (and potentially 1 other player who decided to take some early Villians) but no other Super-Hero should be specifically targetting non-essential Villians that early and none should be hate-buying that early either.

Ssobaekil
01-05-2013, 06:14 AM
Early game, i still think any location is better than lobo. Having an extra card each turn means u can either buy more expensive cards each turn, or more cards. This means each turn you gain more VP than you would have. Green Arrow / belt is 5 points IF you get the 4 other matching cards in your deck, which isnt hard but ppl miss from time to time.

So lets see, 5 points 1 time... or 1 extra point each turn for hmmmm 10 turns... I think you see where this is going.

Later in the game, yes take the 5 points. However, any location does more work than those 2 cards.

zimagic
01-05-2013, 07:01 AM
AA, and the other locations that draw off a specific card being played, all rely on you having the card to trigger them. Assuming that you have that card in hand it is more likely to give you a Punch than any other card in the early game and still more likely to give you a Punch than any other specific card in the late game. It provides no power boost except what you draw, so early game, more likely either +1 or +0. Take the OP line-up starting WW and presume that we have evolved our opening deck to include Penguin, 1x Kick and AA. Each Penguin and AA will draw you into 3 of 7P/3V/1K every second turn. You then have to draw into newly purchased cards one by one through whatever Vunerabilities/Punches you have in there clogging up your deck. Sure, you might get a +1 draw every second turn off Penguin but, while you're drawing into Punches & Vunerabilities, that's not exactly doing a huge amount to help you advance your deck.

Lobo gives you power to purchase and reduces the number of useless cards in your deck at the same time, essentially drawing you past the two cards you destroy. Once Lobo has hit, your potential draws from the same set-up (replacing AA with Lobo) are 6P/2V/1K, then 5P/2V/1K, then 4P/2V/1K. You draw through your deck and access newly purchased cards much faster while still contributing power to purchase cards from the line-up.

He's essentially a power boost and "draw 2 cards that have a statistically better of being better than Punch/Vunerability" over AA's "draw 1 card"

Ssobaekil
01-06-2013, 09:28 AM
Zimagic your not getting it. Who cares if you draw +1 or +0 early game... This just means you cycle your deck faster, plus the location stays out, thus lowering your deck number by 1. Having a specific card is not an issue. You will gain them throughout the game. Lobo hits once per deck cycle period. There is not a single way in the game to bounce him back to your hand. The only combo to use him twice is Zatana or however her name is spelled, but that would be DUMB because you would probably have no discard at that point.

The location has potential to hit EVERY turn, thus effectively making you have 6 card hands, and more importantly cycling your deck. Making your deck small is NOT the ultimate strategy in deck building games. It can be good, don't get me wrong, but wasting energy to try and thin a deck could divert your attention from other more important cards (such as locations) and will in short, lose you the game.

zimagic
01-06-2013, 11:47 AM
Zimagic your not getting it. Who cares if you draw +1 or +0 early game... This just means you cycle your deck faster, plus the location stays out, thus lowering your deck number by 1.

Lobo will reduce by 2, give you power to gain cards at the same time and I don't draw a +1 or +0 mid to late game pratically ever.

Ssobaekil
01-06-2013, 05:15 PM
then what happens after u removed all 10 cards? its just +3 power "when" you draw it. A location hits almost every turn. You can get other removal cards later. There are 5 locations, and many more removal cards.

zimagic
01-07-2013, 04:40 AM
then what happens after u removed all 10 cards?

You play with the cards you have bought. You're not going to sit there doing nothing while you thin your deck. You thin and buy at the same time. Now, instead of drawing into your yellow cards, you're only drawing Kicks, Equipment, Villians etc. etc.

All your hands are statistically better than your opponents' and you have a far greater chance of affording Super-Villians and higher cost cards in the line-up because your typical 5-card hand will contain an average of 10 power given that the majority of cards you will purchase will have 2 power or the means to draw into it. When you have 10 power hands practically every turn, you churn through the super-villian stack very quickly and you will end the game before your opponents can generate the necessary power to beat you at the final points tally.

Ssobaekil
01-07-2013, 06:46 AM
Ok, so there is no getting through to you. Do what you want. If these cards come on the board to start in every game i played you and you took lobo every time letting me get the location, then GREAT. Ill beat you 9 times out of 10 with any hero against any hero.

Whoever started the thread, you now have many different opinions. Choose wisely.

zimagic
01-07-2013, 07:45 AM
Ok, so there is no getting through to you. Do what you want. If these cards come on the board to start in every game i played you and you took lobo every time letting me get the location, then GREAT. Ill beat you 9 times out of 10 with any hero against any hero.

Whoever started the thread, you now have many different opinions. Choose wisely.

:D If we all agreed on everything, the game would be a lot less interesting as each purchase would always have a correct answer. There's no reason to go overboard if someone disagrees with your opinion.

From my own DBG experience, early "destroy" cards win games, drawing into bad cards doesn't. This may not be your experience. You are sticking to your opinion that the long term draw triggers from the AA are more valuable and you have a point in some regards, however you don't seem to want to admit that an early Lobo could vastly increase your card quality over the course of the game, which is obviously the case. Let's just leave it there.


Getting back to the OP Line-up, if your Super-Hero wasn't WW, if you were playing, say, Batman or Cyborg, what would your first pick be off the same hand? Just to remind you:

Going first, the opening hand is 4 Punches & 1 Vunerability. We flip:
Nth Metal
Penguin
Arkham Asylum
Lobo
Supergirl

Ssobaekil
01-07-2013, 07:52 AM
now that depends on your hero again.

GL: Supergirl (thats auto 2 different cards counting toward his effect)
Flash: Penguin
Aquaman: Penguin (you will have 2 vuln in your hand no matter what and you put penguin to the top)
Cyborg / batman: Nth metal
Superman: Supergirl