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Rosenfloggen
02-26-2013, 03:43 PM
Game designer Matt Hyra introduces a couple of variations on the DC Comics Deck-Building Game that have been tested in-house. Let us know what you think of these!

http://www.cryptozoic.com/blogs/rd-blog-dc-deck-building-variants

cnsolo
02-26-2013, 09:06 PM
Excellent variant ideas.

We played as though Princess and Deathstroke could grab the SV's as normal Villians. Sick combo pulled by me in one of the games and just want to be sure we played it right as we had some grumbles about whether it works this way or not. Had the ability to drop Parralax and 17 power... doubled to 34, riddler in play, bought out the kicks and top decked like five cards. THEN dropped MOS and hammered out another 33 power... doubled to 66 and rode the Riddler train for another 22 top decked! Broken as hell and the boys could not wait to abuse it too!

Also, on patrol would be sick with this variant as well.... BTW, defense cards were absolutely fought over! Can't wait to try the other variant.

Anyways wanted to share. These are great variants while we eagerly await an expansion or twelve! Thanks guys!

Matt_Hyra
02-26-2013, 09:24 PM
Yes, Parallax will double any future Power you generate that turn as well. You did it right.

houjix
02-27-2013, 04:04 PM
The only thing I see wrong with it is how did you use Riddler, do other stuff, then use Riddler again? Riddler's spend 3 to gain the top card has to occur when you play him. You can't wait till later in the turn to use it after generating more power.

Matt_Hyra
02-27-2013, 04:12 PM
Ah, true. You have to fully resolve The Riddler's ability before you can play any other cards. Good eye, houjix!

Ssobaekil
02-28-2013, 01:04 PM
Well you can use the riddler's power any number of times in the turn. Can you not play him, do something else, then buy cards?

LowkeyGeek
02-28-2013, 02:09 PM
Great stuff Matt! DC has become one of our staple games these days in my gaming group and we can't wait for more! I was talking with a friend about using the "Super-Hidden Super-Villains" variant next time we play with a little "Locke and Key" type of ending. Instead of actually knowing you'll fight all 12 villains and then simply playing out the deck, we would instead: First count 30 cards out of the main deck to create an "Finale Deck" and set it aside. Next we'd draw our 8 villains as normal and shuffle them into main deck (like the Super-Hidden variant). The remaining 4 villains are then shuffled into the finale deck along with a "Game Over" type of card sleeved to look like all the others. Once we've drawn out of the main deck, the finale deck replaces the main deck and the game continues as normal. Once the "Game Over" card enters the Line-Up it remains in play (taking a Line-Up slot) and everyone then gets one last turn. - We'll try it out this weekend and let you know how it goes! Thanks again!

Matt_Hyra
02-28-2013, 03:16 PM
Well you can use the riddler's power any number of times in the turn. Can you not play him, do something else, then buy cards?

Yes, any number of times, but they have to all be in a row before playing any other cards.

Matt_Hyra
02-28-2013, 03:17 PM
Great stuff Matt! DC has become one of our staple games these days in my gaming group and we can't wait for more! I was talking with a friend about using the "Super-Hidden Super-Villains" variant next time we play with a little "Locke and Key" type of ending. Instead of actually knowing you'll fight all 12 villains and then simply playing out the deck, we would instead: First count 30 cards out of the main deck to create an "Finale Deck" and set it aside. Next we'd draw our 8 villains as normal and shuffle them into main deck (like the Super-Hidden variant). The remaining 4 villains are then shuffled into the finale deck along with a "Game Over" type of card sleeved to look like all the others. Once we've drawn out of the main deck, the finale deck replaces the main deck and the game continues as normal. Once the "Game Over" card enters the Line-Up it remains in play (taking a Line-Up slot) and everyone then gets one last turn. - We'll try it out this weekend and let you know how it goes! Thanks again!

Sounds fun!

dcgirl75
03-02-2013, 01:59 PM
We played the Super-Hidden Super Villains variation, and it was a blast! There was a disagreement, however, regarding the use of Deathstroke. If there is a Super Villain in the line-up, and a player plays Deathstroke, can the player use that card to gain a Super Villain from the line-up?

Matt_Hyra
03-02-2013, 02:38 PM
Sure they can. So make sure that if an opponent gets Deathstroke that you buy them up fast!
If that ends up too good (as it might), then feel free to restrict it to cost 7 or less only.

dcgirl75
03-02-2013, 04:44 PM
Thanks so much for the quick response! I believe the situation only arose once during the game (though there was a choice of two different Super Villains), but a limit like that would make sense.

seidelmx
03-03-2013, 10:13 AM
Dear Matt:

The hidden villains sounds interesting.

In the first expansion, will include "imposible mode (like LOTR)? an or new mechanics? any idea when release that expansion?

Thanks

Matt_Hyra
03-03-2013, 12:31 PM
We aren't spoiling what will and what won't be in the DC expansion, yet. It will be a summer release. We don't have a specific release date yet.

jbabel
03-04-2013, 05:44 AM
Do you resolve SV attacks in the opening line-up?

Matt_Hyra
03-04-2013, 11:10 AM
Do you resolve SV attacks in the opening line-up?

Good question. No, I would shuffle them back into the deck and replace them.

LunarKnite
03-04-2013, 04:06 PM
My group and I have had a lot of fun with the Super Hidden Super-Villain variant. We've played by a bunch of different house rules to fit our playstyles (Including double Captain Cold's cost and putting him at the bottom of the SV deck to make for a more interesting end game). Our current house rules for the Hidden SVs are we have Ra's one of the first 6 cards in the beginning line-up always, and then as a fun "Oh no!" moment, we have Captain Cold freeze the entire game when he comes out, in that he completely freezes the line-up, meaning no new cards come out, until he is defeated. Makes the game a little more entertaining and fun for us.

_OmegaPrime_
03-05-2013, 06:59 PM
My group of friends thought that the Super-Villain stack was too short of games since we memorized almost everything. We came up with Super Hidden Super-Villain variant on our own just for more fun. To make things even more interesting, after each SV appeared, the SV is given a counter marker (to keep track) allowing each player one turn the opportunity to gain it. If the SV was not obtained by the time it made a complete circle, it was placed at the bottom of the deck. Naturally what happens is that all passing SV are now being stacked at the bottom of the deck and when the whole stack is finally complete, each player's deck should be stacked when the Super-Villain onslaught occurs at the end when multiple SVs appear at once.

This is not only very entertaining, but a lot more strategical as you must build a deck to prepare for multiple First Appearance at the end of the game.

With this, we had to ban The Riddler and Anti-Monitor's card effects. By placing all the SV at the bottom, this allowed Riddler to buy them at the end for only 3 powers. Anti-Monitor because when there is no more cards in the main deck, he can simply destroy all the remaining cards and end the game if the owner knows he/she has a commanding lead.

zuzusdad
06-07-2013, 07:48 AM
Hi there,
Great game! Great variants! I really liked the Super-Hidden Super-Villains variant and want to try the Draft-Like with friends so I created these cards and thought I'd share them here.

675

Matt_Hyra
06-07-2013, 06:38 PM
We played the Super-Hidden Super Villains variation, and it was a blast! There was a disagreement, however, regarding the use of Deathstroke. If there is a Super Villain in the line-up, and a player plays Deathstroke, can the player use that card to gain a Super Villain from the line-up?

Yes, so make sure there aren't any for him to grab!

Bansidhewail
06-28-2013, 01:49 PM
My boyfriend thought up a new variant wherein we each start the game with two extra cards of our choosing, one with a cost of 5 or less, one with a cost of 4 or less. Matching two specific advantages to your Superhero can be incredibly powerful! We've tried Martian Manhunter with Watchtower and Swamp Thing, Batman with Dark Knight and Cape & Cowl, Green Lantern with Cheetah and Supergirl (my reasoning was that if those two came up on the same turn, adding the Kick makes 3 and allows GL's ability to apply much earlier than usual), and Wonder Woman with Arkham Asylum and Cheetah. We play with 10 Supervillains to keep the game from ending much too quickly with the extra power we started out with. It's been really cool to experiment!

Also, we are at the edge of our seat for the expansion! This is my favorite game of all time, truly.

Ironfist
07-24-2013, 02:08 PM
We play the super villains in the deck game a lot as we have tired of the 2 heroes combo/ 1 hero quick games. The question I have was resolved pretty easily but I like the opposing view of it. Let's say captain cold comes out and 2 of the 3 people turn their heroes down. What if the third who defended plays anti monitor and destroys captain cold(doesn't defeat) and the other 2 players play without their heroes. It is harsh and "cold" but I thought it would be fun. My friends disagreed and we just said it would just defeat him.

On a side note, after playing about 200 games where we used 2 heroes in either 2player/3 player games, we have come to the conclusion that just about an hero with aquaman wins. And that the flash is almost worthless, with games finishing without his ability even being used.

atheist4thecause
08-09-2013, 03:44 PM
Untested Game Variant Ideas:
Solitaire:
I felt there was a need a need for a 1-player version, so I thought up a variant where you put all of the Super-Villains in a stack and try to kill them as quickly as possible. This version is about how quickly you can kill the Super-Villains and has nothing to do with VP's. I recommend putting a pad of paper and pen in the box to write down what the personal best for each Super Hero is.

Decisive Battles: Series-Style:
I haven't seen any variants designed around playing a series of games, and I think this idea opens up a lot of room for design and creativity. One variant I thought up that uses the series concepts is where you take all of the locations out of the deck. You shuffle them up and put them face down in their own pile to make up what I call the "Battle Locations Deck". Everybody is dealt a Super Hero at random (or you can change it so people pick their own Super Hero). THEY WILL KEEP THE SAME SUPER HERO THROUGHOUT EACH ROUND.

To start the 1st round, a location is flipped up. This location is a global effect that affects everybody over the entire round. Everything else in the game is played standard. Whoever wins what would normally be the game, but is a round in this case, receives the location to represent conquered territory. This location is more of a trophy, and does not affect the next rounds. You then play rounds 2, 3, etc. until all of the locations are gone. NOTE: In the event of a tie, you can put the location at the bottom of the Battle Locations Deck. When all of the locations are gone from the Battle Locations Deck, the player (or team if you're playing with teams) with the most locations wins.

The beauty of this variant is that it can be played with most other variants out there. For instance, there's no reason you can't play this variant in conjunction with the teammate variant, the dual hero variant, the Super-Surprise Super-Villain variant, etc.

As I've stated, I haven't actually played these yet. I actually just thought them up right now on the spot. If any of you guys try these variants out I would love to hear how they are working out. Thanks. :]

GamerJeff
08-14-2013, 05:42 PM
Here are some we have tried:

1) Super Villain Team-ups - We take one each of the regular villains (Bane, Cheetah, Penguin, etc. until we have 12 separate ones) and mix them in with the Super Villains so that as each SV comes up, then up comes his partner in crime! In order to defeat (for example) Joker, you have to pay Joker's cost PLUS his partner's cost. (Of course, just like the movie, first two times we did this Joker got Bane each time lol)

2) Weakness attacks - Shuffle 6 weaknesses into the main deck - when one comes up, whoever turned it up after buying, immediately turns over a second Super Villain and in order to proceed both SV's have to be defeated. It gets interesting when more than two SV's are up at a time. Weakness turned up goes into your discard pile.

3) Double deck - each player is giving 6 vulnerabilities and 12 punches to start. Makes thinning your deck much harder and makes for a more interesting albeit slower game.

4) Surprise Kick - Shuffle all the kicks and weaknesses together. Whenever a card says you gain a weakness or you gain a kick, you get the top card of the facedown pile. Supergirl might get you a weakness instead of a kick. If you spend 3 to buy a kick, you might get a weakness. If you gain a weakness (Joker, Lex Luthor, Bane, etc.) you might gain a kick.

5) Stationary Superhero - We flip up one of the Superheroes (for example Wonder Woman) and place her to the side. We each now can use her ability in addition to our own Superhero.

6) BOGO - Okay, this is Buy One Get One free - as you refill the line-up, if you flip up a 3, and there is another card costing 3, you place it on top of that 3 - when you go to buy that card, you pay 3, but get both cards! (This is insane, fast and stupid. Try playing with it at the end of the night and everyone just laughs at how stupid it gets. Especially when you get two super strengths for only 7. Or cries because your opponent gets the better cards!)

7) Auto replacement - borrowed from Marvel Legendary and Star Trek TOS deck building games - As soon as one card is bought or gained, you replace it immediately, not at end of turn. Also, you can add the rule that once per turn you can discard or destroy a card in the lineup and replace it.

8) Multiple game destruction - when you sit down to play multiple games, leave all cards destroyed out of the next game - this is a blast when you play 3 or 4 games!

9) Forced retirement - when you defeat a Super Villain, you, and you only, must retire your Super Hero to the bottom of the Super Hero deck and get a new one. Makes it harder to customize your deck, but can be more of a 'level the playing field' kind of thing.

Anyway, enjoy!

clay66
08-16-2013, 02:35 PM
Hi Matt, Love the game, playing it a few times a week. I also really love the variants you have posted on the site. So far my favorite is Hidden Super-Villan Mode. A lot of fun! Like some of the variations people have posted on this thread. Plan to check them out. A quick question though concerning the standard Hidden Super-Villan Mode. When someone is able to defeat Sinestro and get him in their deck and are able to play him, his card ability lets him either destroy the top card on the Main Draw Deck if it is a hero and gain +3 power, or gain the card if it is another type. But what if the card is a fellow Super-Villan? Should Sinestro be able to gain the super-Villan and put it inot his discard pile? To me this would make his card overpowered, since it could happen more then once and give the player playing Sinestro free-access to high-value victory point cards, without any other playing being able to stop them or get a chance to gain them themselves. So what is your advice? If this situation occurs should the revealed Super-Villan be placed in the Line-Up and the effect of Sinestro's card be applied to the next card in the Main-Deck or should the revealed Super-Villan be buried back into the deck and again apply the effect of Sinestro to the next card in the Main-Deck? The odds of it being another Super-Villan I think would be pretty small, although it could happen. I just think that allowing the player playing Sinesto free access to other Suoper-Villan cards , with the other players having no way to possible gain these cards, would be an unfair advantage. Thanks in advance for listening and answering all our questions. Congrats on a great game!

Ironfist
08-16-2013, 06:49 PM
Here are some we have tried:


9) Forced retirement - when you defeat a Super Villain, you, and you only, must retire your Super Hero to the bottom of the Super Hero deck and get a new one. Makes it harder to customize your deck, but can be more of a 'level the playing field' kind of thing.



I was thumbing around an idea of that after every super villain bought, that all heroes are redrawn. I think it would hurt some more then be fun for others though

atheist4thecause
08-16-2013, 06:53 PM
You get the S-V Clay66. Think about The Riddler. He's even stronger. I haven't found Sinestro to be a problem when I played the surprise variant, but there have been a few times where people have gotten like 3 S-V's off of The Riddler. Overall, I just think it changes how you rate cards, which is a good thing, because the different variants make the games feel a lot different. But that's just my opinion I guess.

atheist4thecause
08-26-2013, 10:26 AM
I recently thought of a new type of variant:
Find some friends to play with online, and join a Google Hangout, Skype, or some alternative video/voice messaging. Each player needs their own game to play, and you guys agree to rules that work with 1 player. The rules I prefer are to put all the S-V's in a stack and to try to defeat them as quickly as possible with 1 Super Hero. The interaction with the other players comes in when things like attacks happen. Lets say a player defeats a Ras-Al Gul, and then Parallax pops up. Parallax would affect all the players you are video chatting with. When you play a Scarecrow, everybody else gains weaknesses. The first person to take out their S-V stack wins. There would have to be a turn order, and I would recommend not allowing people to use the same Super Hero as another person, because that's not very fun or flavorful IMO, but of course it's up to you. You could call this variant "The Race to Save the Universe" or something like that. Anyways, enjoy. And as always, I'd love to hear your thoughts about it, especially if you play it, but even if you don't.

Monsoon
08-29-2013, 09:37 PM
For the past couple of weeks I've only owned this game two months, mind) we've removed the Man of Steel card from the main deck. It's just too powerful, so... we made it into a Super-Villain instead. We usually call it "Man of Steel Gone Rogue" but if you want to have him fit in with DC Comics lore you can construe it as Earth-Three Ultraman, Superboy-Prime, or the dictator Superman from Injustice: Gods Among Us. So anyway...

MOSGR keeps his ability, but his cost increases to 10. His VP count remains at 3, because **** Man of Steel.
First Appearance: all players reveal their hands and discard any card with cost 4 or less. Punches and Kicks don't dent the Man of Steel.

BatgirlNo.6
08-30-2013, 05:49 PM
MOSGR keeps his ability, but his cost increases to 10. His VP count remains at 3, because **** Man of Steel.
First Appearance: all players reveal their hands and discard any card with cost 4 or less. Punches and Kicks don't dent the Man of Steel.

I like your idea, but the First Appearance Attack as listed allows you to discard a Starter Card or Weakness. The discard requirement should have a minimum cost of 1 to avoid this.

But in all honesty, I would actually go the other direction with the attack: each player should have to discard a card that costs 3 or more. It's an attack, it should cause some pain, especially if this Man of Steel represents Ultraman or Superboy Prime.

Monsoon
08-30-2013, 08:22 PM
Well, it does make your hand slightly more useless if you discard punches, but you have a point. We're still experimenting with house rules on the game (tried using patrols and not sure we like them, etc.); at first we had him destroy all Location cards, but it's too specific with only 5 Locations in a deck of 100+. I'll take any suggestions

atheist4thecause
09-20-2013, 05:10 PM
In my Decisive Battles variant where you battle for the locations, I've played it some more and I think it's a lot of fun. The only thing is that Swamp Thing needs to be changed. My suggestions are to either make him always give the +2 Power, or you can have him automatically give the +5 since everybody has access to the location. I like to do the latter and then make him 2 VP's and cost 7 Power. I got those numbers from the Super Strength. It's pretty sweet when you can Bat-Signal Swamp Thing out.

I also tried to develop a variant (that I don't think I mentioned) where 5 people play a 2v3 team game. The team of 2 each gets 2 Super Heroes and the team of 3 each gets 1 Super Hero, and then to decide the winner the VP's are combined for a team VP score. I was worried that the team of 2 would be too powerful, but I was hoping the extra turn for the team of 3 would help make up for that. In the limited testing I did, the team of 2 seemed too powerful. Maybe if you take a punch out of each player's deck on the team of 3 and replace it with a kick then that would help even things out. Anyways, it seemed fun if I could get it balanced, but I simply need to play test this variant more.