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View Full Version : Withdrawl of in-game currency.



JMFD
05-09-2013, 11:55 PM
I have seen the question asked a few times on other topics but haven't yet seen an answer.

It seems the game has a tremendous amount of options for buying things with real life currency.

But can you withdraw in-game currency back to your bank account? Like say a year from now I wanted to sell off the cards I have purchased, would I be able to do that and then withdraw the money?

If not, what will Cryptozoics policy be on selling accounts? In a real life card game if I was done I could ebay or craigslist my set. Will it be against the Terms of Service to do this with hex accounts?

Tinc
05-10-2013, 12:54 AM
This should be a very easy question to answer and the officials seem to be pretty active with answers but are dodging this one. Perhaps someone in the US of A can make use of that phone number and ask the boss directly. This is the difference between pledging or not for me and no doubt many others.

Storm_Fireblade
05-10-2013, 12:54 AM
Although I don't see myself quitting Hex for a very long time (likely never), this is a very important question, that will affect the decision outcome of a lot of potential backers. I hope this will be possible somehow, because it will happen anyway (ingame trade of premium currency after paypal-transfer or whatever) and it would make it a lot easier and enjoyable for economic-fans, if Cryptozoic provides a well-polished feature for withdrawl.

After all, trading, buying, selling, gambling if a cards value will increase, making real profit etc is for many one of the key-aspects of a TCG and I would be very sad to see a big portion of this violate the terms of service.

WWKnight
05-10-2013, 01:50 AM
If we dont have an answer in the next 12 hours, I will call him up and ask it myself.

I can pretend we are old pals. This is kind of a fun abuse of power!

Fool
05-10-2013, 03:51 AM
I wonder if it opens a legal can of worms? Eve seems to do ok but I wonder if there different regulatory aspects if people can "officially" gamble / profit from the game. It won't affect my playing as I'm pretty casual but I can see how it would be a real thing for people who are Pro's

Erebus
05-10-2013, 04:05 AM
Blizzard does this in Diablo 3, but it did seem to be a lot of hoops to jump through to get your cash out.

As it's their first major online MMO, maybe security is a major issue. If you can withdraw your real money currency it'll gives hackers incentive to go after your account. This creates a liability issue that is probably not going to make anyway happy.

JMFD
05-10-2013, 05:23 AM
I have noticed the dodginess of this topic as well on other threads hence why I thought to make it its own post. I may just make that phone call today and ask him anyhow, as it is a very important to me.

While I will undoubtedly play Hex regardless, this would greatly affect the amount of money I would be willing to put into the game. The ability to make it an "investment" would be the difference in me being a serious player versus a casual player.

Erebus, I have no problem jumping through a lot of hoops to get money withdrawn. In this day and age that extra security is worth every bit of hassle. I wouldn't want someone to be steal/hack/phish my password and then pull off all the cards/money I had put on the account instantly.

Xenavire
05-10-2013, 05:59 AM
I agree, knowing if I can make back some of my money would greatly increase the amount I would feel safe to use for kickstarter, and would influence how much I would PvP.

Rapkannibale
05-10-2013, 06:33 AM
Unless they are doing something drastically different from most free to play games out there, you won't be able to take money back out. I work in the industry and generally you are exchanging real cash for digital licenses (the in game currency) that you can then exchange for the in game items like booster packs etc. Alternatively they may directly let you buy packs for real money which is then no different than buying anything else online.

A stored value currency (which is basically like real money stored online) open a whole giant can of legal worms that most companies want to avoid. Not to mention that if the system allows for virtual money to be taken back out of the system and converted into cash it opens a big door for money laundering.

Of course anything is possible and maybe you can sell your virtual cards to other players for virtual currency and then take it back out of the system, but I find it unlikely.

Fireblast
05-10-2013, 06:43 AM
Black market will then exists, as gold farmers in MMORPGs

~

WWKnight
05-10-2013, 06:44 AM
In Infinity Wars, there is an Auction House and trading. The devs have specifically said that we are welcome to sell our digital products on E-bay or something similiar, but they wont impliment any in-game money making procedures.

As long as Crypto adopt the same stance (and dont claim that they own the cards and we have no right to sell them, like Blizzard does with WoW), I would be happy.

Xenavire
05-10-2013, 07:08 AM
Diablo manages it, and having that kind of economy may attract a wider range of people, and it sounds like gold farming wont be as profitable as most MMO's, since the only place it will have real value is the AH, and people can circumvent it by using real money...

I hope if they adopt a real money trading with withrawls, that they use a security somewhat like blizzards authenticator. I would feel more secure with that even without real money of course.

Soken
05-10-2013, 08:10 AM
A Auction house was more important in a tcg than it would be in diablo 3.
Also, he did answer this. He said yes you can sell cards for real world money, the only thing they have not answered is how you get the real world money. They said there will also be a fee, but its nothing big. I was the first one to ask this question : )

JMFD
05-10-2013, 10:10 AM
A withdrawl fee for taking money out of the game should be incentive enough for them to implement the feature. They win twice that way. You put money in to buy their digital product, then if you decide to sell or you somehow turn a profit they win AGAIN.

Even if they don't adopt a way to allow for real money withdrawls, the ability to transfer ownership of your account would be sufficient. The idea of an online game allowing it, but not regulating it would suffice.

Its the concept of games banning your account for trying to sell it for real money (World of Warcraft) that can be a turn off. Granted this still happens a tremendous amount in WoW and other games.

mikonanaki
05-10-2013, 10:31 AM
Being able to sell cards and withdraw the money back out would be fantastic as I will still have a WoW TCG addiction to feed too and the kickstarter money I'm going to pledge is the money I usually use for WoW.

Mushroom_C1oud
05-10-2013, 11:32 AM
I think it's important to give the cards a monetary value because it'll help give the game longevity for the player. They will see the cards as an investment as well as a game and they are more likely to continue to purchase more boosters.

It would also be important that cards never become out-of-print as this will inflate their value too high. If anything, a card will hold the most value in the beginning and then start to lose value as more copies are "discovered".

JMFD
05-10-2013, 11:35 AM
I have always liked the idea of out of print cards. It gives you something to strive to collect once you have all of a current set. I would much rather cards be out of print and the price go up than cards be banned from gameplay and the money you spent on it being worthless, especially if it happens in a digital world. Its one thing to have a physical copy shoved in your box that you can brag about having once in a while vs the digital copy thats never going to be looked at in your deck editor.

Xenavire
05-10-2013, 11:52 AM
But they aren't banned, they are cycled, two different things entirely.

Tournaments at the most current level, yes it means they are banned, but there are going to be legacy tournaments and free for alls, and more, and anything legacy will be useful in PvE.

No reason to ban things, or remove them, just make them less important. That alone will slowly increase the rarity.

JMFD
05-10-2013, 01:10 PM
That is true. I guess as long as the legacy tournaments are in place all is not lost.

Either way I think we are all on the same page about real money withdrawls or account sales being a key factor to increasing the longetivity and value of the game.

Malakili
05-10-2013, 04:46 PM
I'd just like to put in another voice for real money withdrawals being an important feature. I think to be its best HEX has to mirror paper TCGs as closely as possible in a digital format and having money forever invested into a digital currency (or even real money that I can only spend on HEX) would be a MAJOR difference.

Tinc
05-11-2013, 06:12 PM
I'm still waiting on a comment regarding this issue before I pledge. No one has called Corey yet?

Erebus
05-11-2013, 06:21 PM
Once again this is a highly volatile and filled with liabilities. The legalities of it could cause the game to be significantly delayed if they missed something.

Blizzard is so much larger then Cryptozoic, so they had the resources to take on this challenge.

If I was Corey I wouldn't give a straight answer until I had a team of Lawyers go over all the potential pitfalls with a fine tooth comb.

djlowballer
05-11-2013, 06:42 PM
No chance at all that you will be able to convert in-game currency to real currency. Crypotozoic would have so many liabilities as they would essentially take on the role of a bank and a forex trader. A simple example would be somebody who put 100$ in and now has in-game assets worth 200$. The player decides to cash out and take out 100$. Now what does it mean if part or all of that 100$ was given to the player by others who farmed the currency? Cryptozoic now owes money it never received.

They have already mentioned a real currency auction house which should be sufficient for liquidating account assets so there is no need for a mechanism of selling whole accounts.

Jinuyr
05-11-2013, 06:50 PM
If one of the long term goals of the game is to award cash prizes for Tournaments, I would think that this can be a reality. I can only hope that they either implemented a system that could support this beforehand so that they don't end up spending too much time reinventing the wheel if the masses call for this feature to become a reality.

The only concern is that if they do something similar to what was done to Diablo III when the real world currency market came about and how it crippled the game as a whole. It basically destroyed your ability to farm so that Blizzard could make you have to use the $ AH so they can get a cut of the transactions.

Jinuyr
05-11-2013, 06:55 PM
I think it's important to give the cards a monetary value because it'll help give the game longevity for the player. They will see the cards as an investment as well as a game and they are more likely to continue to purchase more boosters.

It would also be important that cards never become out-of-print as this will inflate their value too high. If anything, a card will hold the most value in the beginning and then start to lose value as more copies are "discovered".

I believe the Double Back system will also increase the card's value anyways so there is no real need to make a set out of print. If you had a card that won several trophies including Worlds for example, then that card would certainly be worth more than any other card without the same level of accomplishments.

Xenavire
05-11-2013, 07:01 PM
djlowballer - it doesn't work like that, there is two kinds of currency. Basic gold (PvE currency, more or less) and platinum, premuim currency, bought with real money. The only currecy you would be able to withdraw would be platinum.

So only money that goes in could come back out.

djlowballer
05-11-2013, 07:26 PM
djlowballer - it doesn't work like that, there is two kinds of currency. Basic gold (PvE currency, more or less) and platinum, premuim currency, bought with real money. The only currecy you would be able to withdraw would be platinum.

So only money that goes in could come back out.

Can you link to where this was announced? I heard there would be a cash auction house and it doesn't make sense to have RMT based currency when you have RMT to begin with.

Blare731
05-11-2013, 07:35 PM
Can you link to where this was announced? I heard there would be a cash auction house and it doesn't make sense to have RMT based currency when you have RMT to begin with.

No there will not be a cash auction house. There will be a platinum part of the auction house which is bought with real money.

Xenavire
05-11-2013, 07:39 PM
It was in one of these threads I believe, posted by OP_Kyle. I don't remember where exactly, but I am sure it will become widely known soon enough, when they do a feature on the AH.

Tinc
05-11-2013, 08:01 PM
A simple example would be somebody who put 100$ in and now has in-game assets worth 200$. The player decides to cash out and take out 100$. Now what does it mean if part or all of that 100$ was given to the player by others who farmed the currency? Cryptozoic now owes money it never received.

The only way to cash out is to sell the $100 worth to another player. Thats how the $100 value is set, if other players are not willing to pay for it its not worth it. Cryptic just get there % of the trade and withdrawal transactions.

Even if they are not going to provide the services to sell in game assets for real money and allow that real money to be taken out of the system as long as they allow the trading of in game assets outside of the game then other trade forums will appear for us to trade in game assets for real money.

If they ban the trading of in game assets outside of the in game services then black markets will still pop up but with fear of bans and loss of $$$ the game will be a fraction of what it could of been.

Devaux
05-11-2013, 08:55 PM
I'm still waiting on a comment regarding this issue before I pledge. No one has called Corey yet?

WWKnight said he would call. You'll have to ask him :P

JMFD
05-11-2013, 11:22 PM
If you put premium currency into the game that isn't giving Cryptozoic money, that is depositing into their system and they counting that as profit is stupid. Once you SPEND your premium currency then they have made a profit. So no, I don't understand what you mean by they are shorting themselves profit by allowing for cash withdrawals, especially when they take a percentage for putting money on and then taking money off. They would win twice.

Unfortunately this issue is becoming kind of a sensitive subject it seems. Why countless other questions have been asked and answered immedaitely, this one has been overlooked on multiple threads across the board. If the answer is "We haven't decided" or "We don't know" then why not just say that? The amount I am willing to pledge greatly depends on that answer. I don't want to invest a ton of money into a game that there is no chance of recouping my investment when I have decided to move on (Like you can with REAL card games.). This isn't a game with a monthly subscription or a one time fee to play forever, this is a game that will constantly evolve and requires a large amount of money to be not just competitive, but to stay relevant. The idea of not being able to withdraw my invested money makes me not want to invest very much at all. As of now I am pledged for Grand Tier, but without the ability to withdraw I can't see me taking this any more serious than just being a casual player and plan on dropping my backing to Knight or so.

Tinc
05-12-2013, 04:25 AM
If you put premium currency into the game that isn't giving Cryptozoic money, that is depositing into their system and they counting that as profit is stupid.

If they don't allow real money withdrawals then it is giving them money. Every dollar that goes in is theirs in that situation.

Thanisse
05-12-2013, 04:37 AM
If they don't allow real money withdrawals then it is giving them money. Every dollar that goes in is theirs in that situation.

but people will be more careful about droping money .
if I know I can sell my extra "super rare awesome card that costs a lot " and make some money back , I might be willing to pay a little more and expect a return (like in real TCGs )

earning something from a game that asks you to pay each time you want to do anything of relevance aside PvE is common sense .
otherwise it wouldn't justify the 500 -1000 $ you are supposed to pay to play it properly when you can just have a normal game for 60 $ , that has free to play multiplayer .

Kami
05-12-2013, 04:47 AM
There's always going to be a 'secondary' economy even if RMT isn't enabled in-game.

Look at any other MMORPG on the market now. People WILL sell/trade offline regardless of the policies set in place by the company.

This is really a non-issue, the only difference is amount of risk a buyer/seller would take.

mikonanaki
05-12-2013, 05:19 AM
Unfortunately this issue is becoming kind of a sensitive subject it seems. Why countless other questions have been asked and answered immedaitely, this one has been overlooked on multiple threads across the board. If the answer is "We haven't decided" or "We don't know" then why not just say that? The amount I am willing to pledge greatly depends on that answer. I don't want to invest a ton of money into a game that there is no chance of recouping my investment when I have decided to move on (Like you can with REAL card games.). This isn't a game with a monthly subscription or a one time fee to play forever, this is a game that will constantly evolve and requires a large amount of money to be not just competitive, but to stay relevant. The idea of not being able to withdraw my invested money makes me not want to invest very much at all. As of now I am pledged for Grand Tier, but without the ability to withdraw I can't see me taking this any more serious than just being a casual player and plan on dropping my backing to Knight or so.

I'm in the same boat. I am going to back this game and will back at a high level if they come back with the answer of being able to withdraw. If not I'll only be backing at a lower level.

Tinc
05-12-2013, 05:35 AM
That is true. But i wouldn't call it a non-issue. An easily accessible real money in and out system where the company profits is a good foundation for a popular long lasting game. A lot of people are going to be put off spending 100/1000s of $ if its a one way system especially when the only way to gain pvp cards is to buy them.

Kami
05-12-2013, 05:39 AM
Sorry, I meant it is a non-issue for those who want to get ROI. Of course, it's not ideal for the company but regardless of whether the company implements it or not, people will STILL do it in the background.

Blare731
05-12-2013, 09:31 AM
Sorry, I meant it is a non-issue for those who want to get ROI. Of course, it's not ideal for the company but regardless of whether the company implements it or not, people will STILL do it in the background.

Right but I think that it is their best interest to allow it anyway as a true TCG you would be able to sell them anyway. Yeah I bet some people might not use the in-game system but, won't it be easier to sell everything you own to people who are playing the game rather than people who are playing checking a site like amazon. It would be really hard for me to trust the person selling, at least that is how I feel.

Thanisse
05-12-2013, 10:51 AM
yes , but if CZE won't allow real money transaction , there is just so much you can do with ingame currency .
once you have all cards , you will want to get money back .
and you will start selling to black market dealers if CZE won't allow it in game .

this way , the only people who lose are the fans who might be scamed .
I really hope they make an AH like diablo and checking out of platinum .

swigmonkey
05-12-2013, 11:36 AM
Think we will have a proper response on Monday to what they are going to allow for withdrawal as many people may change their backing pledge based on that decision they make.

JMFD
05-12-2013, 11:42 AM
Think we will have a proper response on Monday to what they are going to allow for withdrawal as many people may change their backing pledge based on that decision they make.

I hope so. I can only imagine how much money I would put into this game over the years. I know I spent several thousand on MTG over the years and can see me spending that or even more on this game. I have been in a constant state of nerdgasm since finding HEX and am very excited, but the adult in me says dropping thousands of dollars into a video game that you won't get any return out of is not a smart move.

stiii
05-12-2013, 04:45 PM
Worse case it will be the same as magic online where there isn't an in game cash out option but people never get banned for selling things even in the most blatant fashion.

Sweni
05-12-2013, 06:09 PM
Hopefully there is an update on this soon. I want to increase my pledge as well, but it will depend on the answer to this question.

swigmonkey
05-12-2013, 07:40 PM
I hope so. I can only imagine how much money I would put into this game over the years. I know I spent several thousand on MTG over the years and can see me spending that or even more on this game. I have been in a constant state of nerdgasm since finding HEX and am very excited, but the adult in me says dropping thousands of dollars into a video game that you won't get any return out of is not a smart move.

I think that is what many of us thinking, and it honestly if we can't do it will just kill the game out right. (Though I think stiii has the correct line of thinking on how it should be handled)

JMFD
05-12-2013, 07:50 PM
I think that is what many of us thinking, and it honestly if we can't do it will just kill the game out right. (Though I think stiii has the correct line of thinking on how it should be handled)

Yup I have posted quite a few times that the idea of it being "Non Sanctioned" but "Not Punishable" seems to be the smart route.

d00dz
05-13-2013, 02:07 PM
I just talked with Corey minutes ago and I must say, he is quite a pleasant and dynamic fellow. Loved every minute of talking with him!

So I thought I'd let you know the response to this particular concern. It is something that CZE would like to implement. However, it opens up an entirely new can of worms in terms of regulation and this would take a lot of time and effort. So, while its something they really would love to have as a feature, no promises are being made. Oh, and their current stand is that they won't mind if you decide to sell your stuff in the black market (e.g. ebay).

Liokae
05-13-2013, 02:10 PM
Well, if their official stance is that they don't mind, then it's hardly a black market, now is it? :D

Kami
05-13-2013, 02:12 PM
Well, if their official stance is that they don't mind, then it's hardly a black market, now is it? :D

I would suspect their ToS will state otherwise to protect them from regulation and being a medium for 'gambling' but I also suspect if that is what Corey said, they won't enforce it.

It's really the legal and security issues mainly.

Xenavire
05-13-2013, 02:14 PM
Seems like that is official enough, I think this info should be spread around. A lot of people were hinging entire pledges on this information.

Liokae
05-13-2013, 02:19 PM
I would suspect their ToS will state otherwise to protect them from regulation and being a medium for 'gambling' but I also suspect if that is what Corey said, they won't enforce it.

It's really the legal and security issues mainly.

The other points, possibly, but how would it qualify as a medium for gambling? The US couldn't even take down real-money POKER sites without having to resort to banking laws instead of gambling laws.

houjix
05-13-2013, 02:24 PM
The other points, possibly, but how would it qualify as a medium for gambling? The US couldn't even take down real-money POKER sites without having to resort to banking laws instead of gambling laws.

Some states see it as online gambling if you pay any kind of money and win more than you paid back in prizes. See this thread for a discussion on that

http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=23115

Kami
05-13-2013, 02:25 PM
The other points, possibly, but how would it qualify as a medium for gambling? The US couldn't even take down real-money POKER sites without having to resort to banking laws instead of gambling laws.

My reference is one of the issues Blizzard ran into with the AH system even though it was approved. Because there was a randomized loot aspect and RMT... you could broadly make the assertion that there is 'gambling' involved.

There were a few other companies who've dealt with similar scenarios in history.

mauvebutterfly
05-13-2013, 02:28 PM
My reference is one of the issues Blizzard ran into with the AH system even though it was approved. Because there was a randomized loot aspect and RMT... you could broadly make the assertion that there is 'gambling' involved.

There were a few other companies who've dealt with similar scenarios in history.

If they're wanting a world-wide launch, gambling is a pretty big issue. One of the reasons South Korea didn't support Diablo III was because of the potential to make money off of random drops. They eventually got stuff sorted out, but it did throw a wrench into Blizzard's plans.

Liokae
05-13-2013, 02:29 PM
My reference is one of the issues Blizzard ran into with the AH system even though it was approved. Because there was a randomized loot aspect and RMT... you could broadly make the assertion that there is 'gambling' involved.

There were a few other companies who've dealt with similar scenarios in history.

That's.... REALLY stretching the definition out. By any reasonable interpretation I've ever seen, you have to actually bet something ON the random outcome.

But I'll grant you that the legal professions to enjoy stretching definitions as far as they can, so... yeah.

TheBlueMagician
05-13-2013, 02:32 PM
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but one thing developers have to be wary of when creating a "cash out" mechanic is that they don't inadvertently allow money laundering.

There's a TON of red tape involved in getting such a system developed, secured, and verified, so I highly doubt it will be a launch feature, and it wouldn't surprise me if you simply can't cash out.

Also, if something can possibly be interpreted one way by the law, you kind of have to plan for the stupid corner case, like D3 being "gambling." Because someone will try to throw a fit about it, which could cause legal action.

Xenavire
05-13-2013, 02:35 PM
I guess in WoW you pay a sub, so if you make more than your sub would have been worth in some way... I guess the legal eagles would jump on technicalities like that.

Karmic
06-07-2013, 05:32 PM
I will be very disappointed if this is not allowed and facilitated in game. I don't want to use third party sites like ige or even ebay to sell cards. Black market trading has ruined many games for me, right now I'm only really playing free games, and games with real cash transactions like D3 and Entropia. There are others that do it and obviously you can trade real life TCG cards for money, if you can't do it here that'll be extremely limiting for the game imo.

Deathfog
06-07-2013, 08:22 PM
No real advantage to trading cards through 3rd party sites directly. Best to stick with platinum to cash, or vice versa, though exchangers that do enough volume to keep fraud minimized.

MrMcPippens
06-07-2013, 09:18 PM
I think i remember them saying something you can feel free to sell in the real world and trade the cards in game, but i think they are avoiding having a real money auction house because there is alot of legal problems with the states. I dont think they are opposed to people selling their cards, just they cant currently support it and dont want to jump the gun by officially commenting on it.

Yoss
06-07-2013, 11:08 PM
Here's hoping they can find a successful business case for working out the details of RMT for Hex.

Mushroom_C1oud
06-07-2013, 11:19 PM
Necro Thread: 1 to cast, 1 blood threshold

Put target thread from any graveyard into play.

GreyGriffin
06-08-2013, 01:55 AM
Deposit $1, get 1 Platinum.
Withdraw 1 Platinum, get $0.50

CZE can count on 50% earnings from all platinum purchases, PLUS straight up take the dough from any and all platinum spent on VIP memberships, tournament fees, and booster packs.

The unfavorable exchange rate makes it unattractive as an illicit virtual currency. However, it does allow Platinum to function as-intended, as a medium of exchange. 2 Plat may be $1 cash, but 2 plat is also a Booster, which is worth $2. And maybe more, if you find a marketable rare, which can be exchanged on the open market for platinum.

It becomes a currency and market ecosystem with the option of converting to US dollars (or what have you), rather than a simple, typical tokenized system. The guaranteed return for CZE means they can't lose any money they don't mean to (barring some kind of haxx), and the exchange rate is WAY better if you decide to "cash out" than most used PC games.

Zarien
06-08-2013, 02:00 AM
I don't think the issue here is the process of the currency, or how crypto can make a profit/keep the market in check on it. The key issue is the legality of situation, since many states ban online gambling, and its a very grey area when it comes to games such as this. I think they can work it out sometime in the future, but with everything else on their plate, i'm sure they want to put a tentative toe into the pool to test the temperature before jumping head first into a legal battle over the issue in some states.

Lafoote
06-08-2013, 04:12 AM
That is true. But i wouldn't call it a non-issue. An easily accessible real money in and out system where the company profits is a good foundation for a popular long lasting game. A lot of people are going to be put off spending 100/1000s of $ if its a one way system especially when the only way to gain pvp cards is to buy them.
Will there not be an option to buy/sell cards for gold? Grinding PVE should make it possible to obtain cards on the secondary market.

BohemianStalker
06-08-2013, 07:06 AM
Deposit $1, get 1 Platinum.
Withdraw 1 Platinum, get $0.50

CZE can count on 50% earnings from all platinum purchases, PLUS straight up take the dough from any and all platinum spent on VIP memberships, tournament fees, and booster packs.

The unfavorable exchange rate makes it unattractive as an illicit virtual currency. However, it does allow Platinum to function as-intended, as a medium of exchange. 2 Plat may be $1 cash, but 2 plat is also a Booster, which is worth $2. And maybe more, if you find a marketable rare, which can be exchanged on the open market for platinum.

It becomes a currency and market ecosystem with the option of converting to US dollars (or what have you), rather than a simple, typical tokenized system. The guaranteed return for CZE means they can't lose any money they don't mean to (barring some kind of haxx), and the exchange rate is WAY better if you decide to "cash out" than most used PC games.

Not gonna happen, never seen it any game because its stupid. Chinese would just buy the platinum of you for 0.60 and then resell it for 0.90

Arbiter
06-08-2013, 07:18 AM
Will there not be an option to buy/sell cards for gold? Grinding PVE should make it possible to obtain cards on the secondary market.

The players will have that option. I think that either many cards will be available for gold, or PVE players will be able to make platinum selling chase, hard to grind equipment and PVE cards on the platinum Auction House. I think there will be enough crossover interest between the two play streams.

ramseytheory
06-08-2013, 07:33 AM
The other issue besides gambling legislation is that a system like this can allow money laundering. Cory has said repeatedly that this is something he really wants to do, but it really isn't as easy as it sounds. (Personally I like the idea of game stores becoming trusted third parties for selling platinum for real money.)

Omniloathe
06-08-2013, 07:36 AM
They probably won't do it.

The cost of allowing for withdrawals is HUGE. They would essentially be acting as a financial institution. There are a ton of regulations they need to adhere to. Blizzard could do it because of its financial muscle and its size, i doubt Cryptozoic could. This like implementing anti money laundering mechanisms etc would cost them too much.

Talreth
06-08-2013, 07:37 AM
They probably won't do it.

The cost of allowing for withdrawals is HUGE. They would essentially be acting as a financial institution. There are a ton of regulations they need to adhere to. Blizzard could do it because of its financial muscle and its size, i doubt Cryptozoic could.

Even if they could, I don't think they should.

Googolplex
06-08-2013, 10:54 AM
The fact that you cannot buy or sell stuff with RL money, but only with Platinum, strongly suggests to me that withdrawing money will not be an option.

Yes, this would create a seconday market, but it would remove all resonsibility from CZE.

cavench
06-12-2013, 10:35 PM
In today's E3 interview. Cory said:

"It's very important for a collectible company to understand they cannot get involved with the secondary market component of their own game."

So that sounds to me CZE will not support nor object to secondary real cash markets.

Edit: I assumed "Secondary Market" is referring to real money market outside of Hex, or does it have another meaning?

Miwa
06-12-2013, 10:52 PM
Anytime this topic comes up with Cory in an interview, he makes it pretty clear that you wont be able to get cash back out of the system. (At least at launch). It's doubtful they'll ever bother with that option, as it's just too messy of a thing to get into. (Tax liabilities and reporting alone is probably hell)

By "Secondary Market" he means they wont be interfering with the auction house by purposefully selling chase rares directly and things like that. They wont look to profit by selling the FOTM singles. Pretty standard stuff from companies that sell collectible goods. You don't go back and remake some rare collectible you made in the past and sell them on the secondary market.

Parzival
06-12-2013, 11:05 PM
Hmm, while that makes sense I thought he was talking about ebay, craiglist etc, people selling virtual cards and collections out of the CZE system.

That they don't want to get involved with that but at the same time don't specifically condone it (because it's as good as given that a black market - or then a grey market will arise)

Cory has said before they are "your" cards, "you" value them, they don't want to get involved with that...

Zaelesis
06-12-2013, 11:25 PM
Cory has stated that in the future, there will most likely be a system to withdraw money from the game, however it will not be in at launch.

His comment about a collectible company staying out of the market when it comes to resale, i believe was in relation to them taking a cut from it not the actual system in place to allow it or make it easier.

Punk
06-13-2013, 02:12 AM
Cory has stated that in the future, there will most likely be a system to withdraw money from the game, however it will not be in at launch.

Do you know where it was mentioned by Cory that this will probably be a feature in the future? I haven't actually heard or read them state anything along these lines. I really hope their is this functionality at some point.

Yoss
06-22-2013, 09:43 AM
I sure hope they put a big priority on this feature.

khamelk
06-22-2013, 09:47 AM
Don't Quote me on this, but the did talk about real money exchange on the kickstarter at some point. I believe they are planning to get into this eventually but have so much legal hoops to get through this will take some time to implement. I know many game (EVE, Diablo 3, WOW) have implemented it with varying success and various problems. Hex doesn't seem to be something they are going to do halfway so I am sure they will figure this out properly and then implement it.

ZeroCool
06-22-2013, 10:05 AM
I doubt they'll allow you to 'withdraw' your money from the game. If that was the case then they wouldn't be using platinum as a currency, and everything in the game would be purchasable via USD. It's so messy for them to get into, taxes and liabilities and people hacking/cheating and reporting those as well.

It's a nightmare, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Mahes
06-22-2013, 10:16 AM
The selling of accounts has actually been frowned on by the company on another thread. The selling of items on the other hand seems to be just fine. The company itself will in no way allow any item to be exchanged for cash on thier site. There are way to many laws and problems that revolve around that. Ideally it is much easier to just allow somebody else to open up a trade site using Paypal and being based in a foreign country, thus avoiding all those pesky laws. Also as somebody has already pointed out, why have Platinum?

majin
06-22-2013, 03:58 PM
Do you know where it was mentioned by Cory that this will probably be a feature in the future? I haven't actually heard or read them state anything along these lines. I really hope their is this functionality at some point.

I also remember hearing this on one of the video or two. I can't remember the specific one but I watched all of them at least once and it seems a few people also remember this future feature

if I am not mistaken, it will be like D3's RMAH where you can cash out your earnings but this will be in the far future as features like this involves a lot of legal issues and they will probably need to hire lawyers and such and they need a lot of extra cash to do that. hopefully the game will be very successful for this to happen

Corpselocker
06-22-2013, 04:15 PM
Allowing money to be cashed out sets them up for potential money laundering. Sell outside the game.

Yoss
06-22-2013, 04:17 PM
If there's potential for money laundering, that means there's a known strategy that can be countered when they set up the system, no?

Gwaer
06-22-2013, 04:18 PM
Does anyone else get violently angry every time this thread is highlighted from the word "Withdrawl". My vision goes red and blurry for a few seconds literally every single time.

true
06-22-2013, 04:19 PM
Cyrpo doing this right now is a bag of hurt. One reason i see Bliz is charging the fees it is because it have to have major regulation/insurance to cover when things go south. Personalty i would love to see an Escrow service open up to act as a middleman this kind of stuff.

maniza
06-22-2013, 04:53 PM
From my knoledge. (Witch comes from reading several posts and warching prety much every interview) its real simple, a rmah would be to much legal troble. Its just not worth it for a small company like crypto. Even blizzard stated it was a mistake. Cashing out wont be supported at launch most likely never. Why? Because just like in mtgo you can easly cash out using secondary market. Selling anithing that is tradeable in game via a forum or a safer option like ebay wont be penalized. They wont openly support it beacuse that also brings legal issues. On the other hand selling accounts is not allowed. That has another set of issues attatched to it. The other way to make money is rm tournaments they want to support those wont happen at launch but if the game is popular as an e-sport they are likely to make them down the road. Thats it realy easy to get your money just not inside the game.

DarkSeverance
06-22-2013, 05:03 PM
This should be a very easy question to answer and the officials seem to be pretty active with answers but are dodging this one.No one is dodging it. There are a lot of issues that are are both pro/con for it... however none of it has even been hammered completely our or even at a stage to answer those questions yet as it isn't even in Alpha. You can't really dodge a question when the answer isn't even known at this point. If they say "Yes they plan on it" but then find out legal-wise they can't then it looks like they didn't keep a promise.

DarkSeverance
06-22-2013, 05:05 PM
Personalty i would love to see an Escrow service open up to act as a middleman this kind of stuff.That would probably be the easiest both legally and safely for them honestly. It saves them from having to do the footwork, legal hassle, etc and puts someone else in the responsible driving seat for it.

BohemianStalker
06-23-2013, 01:13 AM
Maniza: Blizzard stated rmah was a mistake because it destoryed the purpose of item-hunting, not because it was actually a mistake. RMAH as it is is pretty good idea, but cojoined with infite numbers of items, well yeah, that equals a fucking hyperinflation which devaluated peoples work(play)....Thats why they should have had ladder or season blocks of cards in hex's case.

LexC
06-24-2013, 11:48 AM
The only thing I heard from Cory on this subject is that they will be staying away from this, there will be no money shop, Cory said ,on E3 interview I beleive, that companies should stay away from third party markets or cash markets or something on those lines when it comes to their own product, so they will be staying away from this. I will try and find it later when I get home. So I'll be back with the source of all Truth ;)

ramseytheory
06-24-2013, 12:42 PM
Haven't CZE explicitly said that they'd like to do this, that there are too many legal hurdles to do so at launch, but that if they can reasonably implement it at some point post-launch they will?

Gwaer
06-24-2013, 01:05 PM
Haven't CZE explicitly said that they'd like to do this, that there are too many legal hurdles to do so at launch, but that if they can reasonably implement it at some point post-launch they will?
Yes.

Yoss
06-24-2013, 03:27 PM
Haven't CZE explicitly said that they'd like to do this, that there are too many legal hurdles to do so at launch, but that if they can reasonably implement it at some point post-launch they will?
As Gwaer said, yes. (Redundant vote since previous poster said the opposite.)

Nicalapegus
06-24-2013, 07:26 PM
I have seen the question asked a few times on other topics but haven't yet seen an answer.

It seems the game has a tremendous amount of options for buying things with real life currency.

But can you withdraw in-game currency back to your bank account? Like say a year from now I wanted to sell off the cards I have purchased, would I be able to do that and then withdraw the money?

If not, what will Cryptozoics policy be on selling accounts? In a real life card game if I was done I could ebay or craigslist my set. Will it be against the Terms of Service to do this with hex accounts?

The answer is no, at least not at the moment. Cory wants this down the road at some point though.

Pech
06-24-2013, 09:56 PM
But can you withdraw in-game currency back to your bank account? Like say a year from now I wanted to sell off the cards I have purchased, would I be able to do that and then withdraw the money?

If not, what will Cryptozoics policy be on selling accounts? In a real life card game if I was done I could ebay or craigslist my set. Will it be against the Terms of Service to do this with hex accounts?

This one is iffy to do for them as a company. There are few companies that do this i.e Second Life and Entropia, but I don't think that will be something Hex will offer simply because you will be essentially dipping into the companies pockets every time you were to say "cash out" and that is just a nightmare to do unless you plan to do this from the get go.

As far as selling accounts go, players are going to do whatever they think is best either by stating they aren't selling the account they are selling their time spent in the game and nothing more as a way to get around any Laws or Regulations they try to put on the game.

Yoss
06-24-2013, 10:08 PM
If you want to talk about trading/selling accounts, try here:
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=25777&page=8&p=261233#post261233

RMT implementation is almost certainly a prerequisite for allowing account transfers (assuming they even allow it).