PDA

View Full Version : First Round of Stretch Goals, Thoughts?



JMFD
05-13-2013, 12:34 PM
Personally I am very impressed with them.

Buuuuut I think that is because I suggested the guild vs guild rankings. /flex :)

But really, looks like some solid +PvE items, and the additional boosters at 540k is a great reward especially with the annoucnement of Primal Packs to go along with it.

AND AUTHENTICATOR SUPPORT. WOOO WOO WOO!

Erebus
05-13-2013, 12:45 PM
Am I the only one excited, but also concerned about Primal Packs?

They state specifically you can't pop a Primal in Drafts. So this would imply that a player that drafts as a way to get cards can't get a primal pack. This makes Boosters potentially more valuable to open outside of draft then to draft with them. Do you think the chance will be high enough that we'll see a decrease in the number of people drafting?

BKCshah
05-13-2013, 12:47 PM
the way I read it was that Primal Packs would be a random 'prize' when buying packs from the store only.

Instead of a regular booster, have a Primal pack. BTW - thanks for spending money after the kickstarter.

jtatta
05-13-2013, 12:47 PM
You can get Primal packs as part of your draft prizes so I doubt this really effects the number of people drafting at all.

JMFD
05-13-2013, 12:49 PM
I am pretty ok with it not happening in draft. Someone getting lucky and popping a primal pack would lean the cards heavily in their favor. As long as its still available as prize packs I don't see it being an issue.

Plus I see something like this being extremely rare. 1-3 percent range.

Erebus
05-13-2013, 12:49 PM
I guess I misunderstood it. I thought they'd reveal as primal upon opening, not upon purchase.

Do the packs we receive for contributing have the same chance to be primal if we reach that goal?

Fireblast
05-13-2013, 12:51 PM
The wording implies they reveal as you buy them, different package since you can sell them too

~

jtatta
05-13-2013, 12:54 PM
The way that I understand it is that every pack that you buy or win has a chance to be "Primal." I'm sure the wrapper will be different or whatnot to distinguish the difference. You can put these packs on the AH to sell (as they said that in the description) or open them for yourself, but cannot use them in drafts. So, all that said, you know in advance what the pack is.

The specify that you get X amount of boosters with your pledge (whatever level you pledged) so I'm nearly 100% sure that you won't get any Primals in those X packs allotted outside of the 1 you get if we reach 540k.

Xenavire
05-13-2013, 12:57 PM
I hope the devs stay on their toes, we are creeping surprisingly fast towards unlock 3.

These are looking good, especially the guild feature. Not sure how I feel about new 'cities' - we don't even know exactly what those will be like in the first place, and while I am sure it will be nice to have more, are they a good goal? I am curious about them.

All the kickstarter perks are pretty nice, the best being the primal pack - we might even get a couple more of those later, if we chew through all the goals.

TheBlueMagician
05-13-2013, 01:00 PM
The way the primal pack description reads, as you buy a booster pack you have a small chance of getting a Primal Pack in addition to your purchased booster.

My only concern with the stretch goals so far is that 540k seems like a long ways out, so I wish more had been revealed.

Sci3nce
05-13-2013, 01:09 PM
My only concern with the stretch goals so far is that 540k seems like a long ways out, so I wish more had been revealed.

At this rate, that legendary reward is over going to be over 2 million. I find this difficult to see us reaching since as a PvP player primarily, only the 540k Stretch goal has done anything for PvP.

TheBlueMagician
05-13-2013, 01:16 PM
At this rate, that legendary reward is over going to be over 2 million. I find this difficult to see us reaching since as a PvP player primarily, only the 540k Stretch goal has done anything for PvP.

As much as I love this game, I doubt it will see a million in pledges on Kickstarter, which is why I'm also a little concerned at the fact it's already up to 540k. I don't doubt it will reach that by the end, but I don't think it's going to double that by any means. I imagine it will wind up with 700 - 800k in KS pledges.

So yeah, I don't think we'll ever see the final rewards unless they drastically scale back their requirements, and possibly the rewards to match.

Tyrfang
05-13-2013, 01:29 PM
I thought crafting was already confirmed to be in the game. +1 to guild support.

No offense but...Primal packs don't feel like they need to be a stretch goal. (They don't take a long time to code or add into the game.) Granted, giving everyone freebies is nice, but I prefer gameplay design enhancements or increasing the scope of the game when it comes to goals. Also I feel like there's tier confusion at this point...

Extra cities is a bit odd, considering we had no idea how many cities/dungeons there were originally.

houjix
05-13-2013, 01:31 PM
Crafting is confirmed, but it wasn't confirmed to be a part of the game at launch.

BKCshah
05-13-2013, 01:43 PM
People complaining about stretch goals is amusing.
Dev - Thanks for the Support. Here's something that we weren't going to promise/deliver.
Kick - Hmm ok I guess, but I really want/give me this.

Think the Monaco Dev had a fair viewpoint regarding stretch goals.

TheBlueMagician
05-13-2013, 01:55 PM
People complaining about stretch goals is amusing.
Dev - Thanks for the Support. Here's something that we weren't going to promise/deliver.
Kick - Hmm ok I guess, but I really want/give me this.

Think the Monaco Dev had a fair viewpoint regarding stretch goals.

There's a difference between constructive criticism, and entitled whining. So far, nothing I've seen on these forums has been entitled whining. If you want an example of that, check out some old Starbound threads regarding the 1 million stretch goal of starter pets.

Ultimately, Kickstarting a project and providing stretch goals is about appealing to the community; if the community doesn't really want something, they won't really try to get to it. Thus, it is in the developer's best interest to keep their ear to the ground, and try to find out what the most desired features are (which is why authentication was the first thing unlocked).

That said, I think it's a fair point to bring up how odd the extra town seems, seeing as we know next to nothing about PvE content besides how it theoretically will work. Structure, progression, rewards, meta-content, all of that is almost entirely unknown right now. Since we don't know anything about how the current system works, there isn't much to build excitement for new content in the system; a new town could be really awesome (probably will be, relative to the other similar content), or it could just be a drop in the pond. It should be noted that they don't necessarily have to change the unlock for this, they could just elaborate on the significance of towns and how much content they contain to drive up interest in this.

Similarly, Primal Packs are sort of an awkward reward for the 540k tier; for people who are leaning towards multi-pledging Pro, or just people who play casually, it seems like a non-issue because they won't be buying many booster packs to begin with. It feels like it's small enough to be a sub-point on any one of the earlier tiers, but not something actually significant compared to the other content. This isn't necessarily a problem inherently, but it does create some dissonance when the highest reward tier at least seems to be less valuable than earlier tiers.

Again, it really comes down to the difference between demanding something be changed or included, and suggesting something should be changed or included.

Boojum
05-13-2013, 01:59 PM
I like the way that they're making each stretch goal have both something that benefits the game as a whole and something just for the backers. The authenticator, guild stuff, and crafting are all good to have. The extra city per race certainly sounds good, although it's hard to contextualize what it actually means since we haven't seen how that part of the game will work yet or how many cities were already planned. Tyrfang, I agree that the Primal packs are the least interesting addition, especially since it comes with a doubling of the goal interval. I hope they reveal the next batch of stretch goals after hitting 440K, since otherwise the stretch to 540K could really sap momentum.

The new cards and mercenaries look good.

Giving all the equipment for the reward cards is an interesting reward tactic, but I'm not finding it to be much of a draw. Unless we multi-pledge, we'll only have one copy of each of those cards. Realistically, I'm not going to build a deck that relies on a singleton, and I'm certainly not going to want to use one of my six equipment slots buffing a card that I only have one copy of (at least once I've played for a bit and found a few other options for equipment). I know they are tradeable, but I would suspect that people will generally want to hang onto theirs.

Oh well, really the stretch goal I want is to somehow make September come faster.

BKCshah
05-13-2013, 02:04 PM
I don't look at stretch goals as being something that should be a draw for donations really. More nice gestures for a lot of generous support. Going far outside the original design scope/timeline to provide various add-ons that are promised could have a negative impact on the original project.

Kami
05-13-2013, 02:06 PM
I'll admit I'm not sure why crafting was a Stretch Goal. I thought they already confirmed it was being worked on? Were they planning to exclude it if it wasn't a Stretch Goal?

d00dz
05-13-2013, 02:08 PM
I'll admit I'm not sure why crafting was a Stretch Goal. I thought they already confirmed it was being worked on? Were they planning to exclude it if it wasn't a Stretch Goal?

It was probably intended to come in some time after launch but decided to include it on launch as a stretch goal.

BKCshah
05-13-2013, 02:09 PM
Interesting point as it says at Launch. Original guess would have been that it would be added before the official release (some point in beta). Not sure at this point. needs some clarification.

Tyrfang
05-13-2013, 02:10 PM
I don't look at stretch goals as being something that should be a draw for donations really. More nice gestures for a lot of generous support. Going far outside the original design scope/timeline to provide various add-ons that are promised could have a negative impact on the original project.

Basically, most projects like this have a lot of ideas that are "you know I'd really like to do ____, but we don't have enough resources to deliver it."

I think a better example might be other game kickstarters, especially stuff like torment or wasteland.

Xenavire
05-13-2013, 02:17 PM
I do wonder how much resources creating the primal packs would take? I may not know the nitty gritty, but it just seems like creating a new section of data, some copy and paste, and a few other tweaks, and slap some art on it (I mean this in the most general of terms, I know the reality is far more time consuming).

But still, it actually seems like a lure to get more revenue, to draw people closer to a higher goal (where they can put that money from the primals to good use). A good plan really.

Storm_Fireblade
05-13-2013, 02:18 PM
I'm really wondering if the Primal Packs can be created out of the delivered Kickstarter Boosters. Because that might provide a lot of Primal Packs from Day 1 and I'm not sure (even though I get 450+ boosters myself) if that really is something we should hope for. If you buy a booster, it would be awesome to have a chance for this kind of pack. But I'm not sure, if I want to have all the KS_Boosters get that chance as well.

Xenavire
05-13-2013, 02:21 PM
Well, it depends on their stance. We do technically buy them, but they are also technically freebie rewards - its a tricky point of contention. I wuld hope for a few extra myself though, jsut for the sheer fun of opening a full rare pack - that to me is worth more than any card inside, as it is a huge novelty.

Liokae
05-13-2013, 02:25 PM
I do wonder how much resources creating the primal packs would take? I may not know the nitty gritty, but it just seems like creating a new section of data, some copy and paste, and a few other tweaks, and slap some art on it (I mean this in the most general of terms, I know the reality is far more time consuming).

It also depends a lot on how packs are handled internally, but unless their code is 100% optimized then it's almost always a fair amount more complicated than it would seem.

d00dz
05-13-2013, 02:27 PM
I'm really wondering if the Primal Packs can be created out of the delivered Kickstarter Boosters. Because that might provide a lot of Primal Packs from Day 1 and I'm not sure (even though I get 450+ boosters myself) if that really is something we should hope for. If you buy a booster, it would be awesome to have a chance for this kind of pack. But I'm not sure, if I want to have all the KS_Boosters get that chance as well.

Honestly, despite having pledged several Pro Player tiers like yourself I prefer that free boosters from Kickstarter not include Primals. They can always include another tack-on incentive to the tiers like a free Primal pack or whatever.

Daer
05-13-2013, 02:27 PM
I'd say no to Primal Packs in the kickstarter boosters. Only way to get them should be buying new boosters or winning them in tournaments.

Talreth
05-13-2013, 02:28 PM
KS boosters should only be regular boosters, no chance for Primals.

Erebus
05-13-2013, 02:31 PM
Primals make sense as a stretch goal, as the players that will get a majority of them are the major buyers, who will fill there sets fasters and thus stop purchasing that set of boosters.

So that high stretch goal is to make up for a lose of revenue for high-tier players. I don't think it will much effect mid to low tier spenders who will be ecstatic at receiving Primals, but it won't affect their full set goals much.

WWKnight
05-13-2013, 04:45 PM
I'll admit I'm not sure why crafting was a Stretch Goal. I thought they already confirmed it was being worked on? Were they planning to exclude it if it wasn't a Stretch Goal?

As I said, all possible additions we can suggest as stretch goals are just things they will have to add to the game at a later point, because MMO's are all about more content. Crafting was confirmed to being worked on, but never actually confirmed as implimented.

Any stretch goal we miss that talks about in-game content and not backer only rewards will just mean a delay, not missing out on.

Erebus
05-13-2013, 09:11 PM
To update on the chance of Primals with KS accounts:

Chris Woods about 6 hours ago

@Vincent
Primal Packs occasionally show up when you get a pack in any way, so they can come from prize rewards, purchases, could even be in your KS packs.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/hex-mmo-trading-card-game/posts/479694#comments

Garod
05-13-2013, 10:07 PM
Honestly I do hope that going forward the stretch goals will have a little less fluff and a bit more content.
What I mean with that is that a stretch goal should be something completely new they work on with the funding they reached with the KS. Which means that the 100k from 440 to 540 should show that the game is getting bigger and better and that they know what they are spending the development money on. So far I've not seen that really.

I can only hope that future stretch goals will have something for the real RPG side.
So maybe Quest lines, dialogue, choice and consequence within the quest lines, possibly player housing.

WWKnight
05-13-2013, 10:09 PM
There is player housing. There is quests and I do believe choice and consequence. :)

Erebus
05-13-2013, 10:20 PM
It's funny, as people have been complaining that most of the stretch goals have been purely PVE side, and thus by connection RPG side.

I mean one of the Stretch Goals was to add a seperate city for each faction complete with their own quest lines.

I think people spend too much time reading the KS rewards and not enough time reading the Stretch Goal. Only so much they can add for 30k development costs.

d00dz
05-13-2013, 10:24 PM
To update on the chance of Primals with KS accounts:

Chris Woods about 6 hours ago

@Vincent
Primal Packs occasionally show up when you get a pack in any way, so they can come from prize rewards, purchases, could even be in your KS packs.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/hex-mmo-trading-card-game/posts/479694#comments

Oh my. I really hope they won't put Primal packs into KS boosters. The higher tiers are already heavily out of favor as it is and this would just further widen the gap in favor of multiple lower tiers.

Fireblast
05-13-2013, 10:47 PM
such bad news.
Primal as KS rewards is the worst idea ever

Primal could be the worst idea ever

~

Garod
05-13-2013, 10:48 PM
Agree 30k isn't that much of a development cost that's why I thought it would be a larger stretch goal like the jump from 390 to 440 or from 440 to 540.
Not quite sure where the development cost is in adding Primal packs to the game?

One of the reasons I think why the PvE is going to be quite heavy in the Stretchgoals is that there's simply more you can do there compared to PvP. Also I think it's one of the things which makes this game more different. ( I won't say Unique because RPG & TCG have been done to a certain degree with EtherLords etc)

WWKnight
05-13-2013, 10:59 PM
Devleopment costs arent really adding to the stretch goals, as mucha s they are using the stretch goals to encourage more pledging.

I am REALLY surprised to see people dont like the primal packs. I read that and I thought back to the "God packs" in MTG, spoken of in hushed tones of all rares or all foils. Trying to figure out if its real or myth, and if real was it printing error or interns idea of a joke.

And then I saw someone open an all foil booster and the excitement level in the shop was amazing. When I read about primal boosters, I went back to that moment and instantly felt it again. I love the idea!

Garod
05-13-2013, 11:03 PM
WWWknight it's not that I'm against the Primal packs I think they are good.

And no Stretch goals aren't there for encouraging more pledging. The game developer asks for a certain amount of money if it's topped they need to still spend it on the game. It is not allowed for the developer to put that money into their pockets as "profit". As such they create stretch goals in how they are going to improve the game with the additional funds they received beyond their funding goal. All KS Money has to go directly into making the game.

alpha5099
05-13-2013, 11:04 PM
As someone who's going to pledge a smaller amount, I'd say Primal Packs have pushed me over the edge from backing at the Warrior Tier to bumping up to Knight, if only to have one Primal right off the bat. The Knight tier also seems to be the lowest tier that's still getting most of the stretch goodies.

Tyrfang
05-13-2013, 11:05 PM
I like including Primals packs, if only because of the end result of less expensive rares and legendaries.

I think people are just surprised that the KS packs can be primal packs.

WWKnight
05-13-2013, 11:10 PM
Yes, I get that. But there are things they want to do now that will delay the game if they try to impliment them. I know this, I spoke to Corey this morning. He feels he is on the fence of this issue about announcing awesome stretch goals that will delay the launch, or giving us things to play with while they make these functions.

Primal is one of these things that create income and we can play with while they use that money to work on the game and give us amazing updates.

Malama
05-13-2013, 11:19 PM
I like all of the stretch goals. Honestly I don't care much about them. Primal packs sounds cool, can't wait to try and open one. Though I am surprise that the ks boosters can be primals.

Tyrfang
05-13-2013, 11:19 PM
But why do all gameplay functions have to be available at beta/launch?

WWKnight
05-13-2013, 11:22 PM
They dont. But its an MMO. They need gameplay functions to survive. So announcing them as stretch goals are just... unexciting. We KNOW we will be getting them, as an MMO evolves constantly, or it stagnates and dies.

Fireblast
05-13-2013, 11:23 PM
But why do all gameplay functions have to be available at beta/launch?

You know they'll have an open beta so they could delay launch, the game will already be running... :)

I'm really unhappy with Primal Packs, I think it's a bad idea in the long run

~

WWKnight
05-13-2013, 11:25 PM
I assume when they say primal packs they are talking like, a percentage smaller than 1. Smaller than .5 even. I like the IDEA of primals as incredibly rare happenings. Im sure they will find the sweet spot on how often it occurs (and then watch as they add a soft subscription which flags your account to have a +5% chance at opening primal packs in the future >.>).

Tyrfang
05-13-2013, 11:28 PM
Well, they said they would address the issue of "pay to win" in a forthcoming update.

TheBlueMagician
05-13-2013, 11:33 PM
Well, they said they would address the issue of "pay to win" in a forthcoming update.

Uh.

Haven't TCGs always inherently been pay to win? I'm not sure why they would feel this is an issue they need to address; it's a common practice to buy specific singles in order to round out a set of 4 for a rare card, or even commons you just don't want to bother trying to find in boosters (or that are out of print).

I'm not quite sure what they're aiming for if they're concerned about that. I was under the impression people would join up and be given a single deck, and then they're encouraged to pay to get more cards and expand. If they try to make it so the F2P customer doesn't have to worry as much about buying cards...it just seems to undermine their established pricing model.

Can you point me to the question/answer this came up in? I'm actually interested in knowing the full context.

Tyrfang
05-13-2013, 11:36 PM
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/hex-mmo-trading-card-game/posts/479694#comments

'Martin Grider about 10 hours ago
This is the first I've seen of these stretch goals. I've already had to suspend my pay-to-win gag-reflex backing this project... with the (perhaps naive) assumption that the final game will not be pay to win. (I am putting a lot of faith in Cryptozoic on the basis of their physical games, which I very much do enjoy.) As someone at the Squire Tier who just wants to play the game, (and is not particularly excited about getting bled slowly to death with IAP), should I just unsubscribe from these updates, assuming there will be nothing in them for me? What can you do to allay my fears about the final game being pay-to-win?'


'Cryptozoic Entertainment about 10 hours ago
Martin: I have a piece coming up about the "Pay To Win" idea and why it doesn't apply to HEX, but basically it outlines that HEX is not like the other games you've seen in the digital space. You can trust true, experienced TCG developers to always have a solid base of commons that are tournament staples, budget decks (I believe a $30 deck recently won one of our other tournaments and earned the player thousands of dollars in prizes) that can compete, and the Auction House, trading to both allow players far more ways to build their collection and compete. And remember that the PVE exclusive cards are restricted to PVE, so you can't use them in our tournaments.'


I don't think it's possible to misunderstand that statement in any way.

TheBlueMagician
05-13-2013, 11:46 PM
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/hex-mmo-trading-card-game/posts/479694#comments

'Martin Grider about 10 hours ago
This is the first I've seen of these stretch goals. I've already had to suspend my pay-to-win gag-reflex backing this project... with the (perhaps naive) assumption that the final game will not be pay to win. (I am putting a lot of faith in Cryptozoic on the basis of their physical games, which I very much do enjoy.) As someone at the Squire Tier who just wants to play the game, (and is not particularly excited about getting bled slowly to death with IAP), should I just unsubscribe from these updates, assuming there will be nothing in them for me? What can you do to allay my fears about the final game being pay-to-win?'


'Cryptozoic Entertainment about 10 hours ago
Martin: I have a piece coming up about the "Pay To Win" idea and why it doesn't apply to HEX, but basically it outlines that HEX is not like the other games you've seen in the digital space. You can trust true, experienced TCG developers to always have a solid base of commons that are tournament staples, budget decks (I believe a $30 deck recently won one of our other tournaments and earned the player thousands of dollars in prizes) that can compete, and the Auction House, trading to both allow players far more ways to build their collection and compete. And remember that the PVE exclusive cards are restricted to PVE, so you can't use them in our tournaments.'


I don't think it's possible to misunderstand that statement in any way.

What a weird question. To me, Grider seems to fundamentally misunderstand how a TCG works as a payment model. I suppose you could argue that the digital format should be an excuse for CZE to shake things up and try a new payment model, but honestly that's a bit silly, especially considering how much they're trying to add on unique content so it is fresh and interesting. Calling it "pay to win" is, quite honestly, disingenuous and relies entirely on buzzwords and conditioned responses from other people.

Also, as for misunderstanding, I interpreted your last message as "the developers will update/change certain things to prevent 'pay to win' problems." I see what you mean now by addressing. Glad to know it's not really a concern of their's.

Tyrfang
05-13-2013, 11:49 PM
TCGs are the original cash shop.

Boojum
05-14-2013, 12:48 AM
And no Stretch goals aren't there for encouraging more pledging. The game developer asks for a certain amount of money if it's topped they need to still spend it on the game. It is not allowed for the developer to put that money into their pockets as "profit". As such they create stretch goals in how they are going to improve the game with the additional funds they received beyond their funding goal. All KS Money has to go directly into making the game.

This is completely wrong. The only obligation they have is to deliver what they have promised. Kickstarter exists to make creative projects commercially viable, and that means making money. If the amount of money that comes in is more than it costs to deliver all the rewards, then good for the creator! They were able to create something that was of high enough quality and desirability to be profitable, and they should reap the rewards. Kickstarter even cautions developers against getting caught up in the perceived need for stretch goals that they overcomplicate the project and lose sight of their original commitment.

Of course, I don't expect the development team to all be driving fancy new cars tomorrow, but it's not because of any obligation to Kickstarter. Rather, this is the very beginning of a product/service that they expect to be making money off of for years and years to come, and whatever development resources they can pour into it now increase its quality and hence its likelihood of future profitability.

Fireblast
05-14-2013, 02:50 AM
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/hex-mmo-trading-card-game/posts/479694#comments

'Martin Grider about 10 hours ago
This is the first I've seen of these stretch goals. I've already had to suspend my pay-to-win gag-reflex backing this project... with the (perhaps naive) assumption that the final game will not be pay to win. (I am putting a lot of faith in Cryptozoic on the basis of their physical games, which I very much do enjoy.) As someone at the Squire Tier who just wants to play the game, (and is not particularly excited about getting bled slowly to death with IAP), should I just unsubscribe from these updates, assuming there will be nothing in them for me? What can you do to allay my fears about the final game being pay-to-win?'


'Cryptozoic Entertainment about 10 hours ago
Martin: I have a piece coming up about the "Pay To Win" idea and why it doesn't apply to HEX, but basically it outlines that HEX is not like the other games you've seen in the digital space. You can trust true, experienced TCG developers to always have a solid base of commons that are tournament staples, budget decks (I believe a $30 deck recently won one of our other tournaments and earned the player thousands of dollars in prizes) that can compete, and the Auction House, trading to both allow players far more ways to build their collection and compete. And remember that the PVE exclusive cards are restricted to PVE, so you can't use them in our tournaments.'


I don't think it's possible to misunderstand that statement in any way.

He's saying what we've been saying for ages.
PvE is free if you don't mind grinding.
PvP is accessible with budget decks.

Pay2Win implies the guy who spent the most wins, it's not true, Kami while being producer has no edge to be 1st World Champ.

So the game is :
Free 2 Play PvE
Cheap to Play PvP
Be Good to Win

˜

Pyros
05-14-2013, 04:18 AM
I think the Pay to win argument can be relevant for PvE only, if one of the unique kickstarter card turns out to be way overpowered and basically guarantee wins in PvE. In that case, that is the definition of pay to win. Assuming the cards being added as pve exclusive are balanced properly compared to the other pve cards though, there is no real pay to win, it's just gonna be "pay to win differently than you could without paying", which isn't very relevant anyway. So as long as they balance properly it'll be fine.

Obviously, being a TCG, there's an heavy money involvement in unlocking "content". But that's not a pay to win mechanic in either pve or pvp.

JMFD
05-14-2013, 05:13 AM
At the end of the day this is a card game. More money spent means access to more cards. More cards means more combinations for building stronger decks. While the most expensive decks are not always the best ones, having more cards to work with is a definite edge.

Even if the kickstarter cards are over powered in PvE it doesn't matter... as it is PvE. You aren't going to hurt the computers feelings crushing it over and over. PvE content in any game is always going to be easier to the person with the most free time or the largest wallet, or both.

PvP is where your skill and creativity come into play. This is your chance to use whatever resources you have and learn to play them to their maximum potential. Inexpensive decks have the potential to do extremely well if built in the right way and played correctly.

zetalux
05-14-2013, 05:31 AM
I think most of the cost to primal packs is spent on testing it. Developing the idea doesnt seem to difficult, but time spent trying to find an acceptable find rate on it, testing it, and checking for streaks during your testing is long and time consuming. Will I be heartbroken if Primal Packs arent in at beta launch? Not really. This is a fantastic game and trust the developers in balancing aspects of the game. Im happy to supporting the developer and stretch goals are only icing on the cake. Heck, I might just make another KS account just to get a 2nd Pro Player pledge in, for 2nd free draft a week.

Simokon
05-14-2013, 05:59 AM
Pay to win would only be an issue in 1 of 3 competitive formats. In sealed and draft it is irrelevant so I don't think it will be a problem.