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View Full Version : Concern about the Goldfish Feature



Beastmaster
05-14-2013, 03:48 PM
If Cryptozoic are going to take something that you can ordinarily do with your own cards and make it a subscription only feature, what does this mean for other things that you can do with a normal TCG like multiplayer, EDH, Cube, Emperor etc that we all expect will be made available when possible?

I realise that as a digital game we dont actually own any of the cards but a mission statement from Cryptozoic stating that they will act like we do would be awesome.

Here I was hoping for more awesome features like 'practice' drafting not less that you can do with real cards.

PS the subscription is awesome and i'll probably go for it but im just worried about what it means for the future.

Vengus
05-14-2013, 04:07 PM
I don't think the goldfish feature should be a part of the subscription, I don't really see much value in it anyway, I don't think anyone is going to say "YAY! I bought the sub so I can draw a few cards to test my deck!". For deck testing most people will just take their decks in a friendly match against their friends and guildies to get a good idea of how well the deck is working.

JMFD
05-14-2013, 04:11 PM
I see nothing wrong with adding a little value to a deal so good everyone should be subscribed to it anyhow.

Turtlewing
05-14-2013, 04:42 PM
I don't think the goldfish feature should be a part of the subscription, I don't really see much value in it anyway, I don't think anyone is going to say "YAY! I bought the sub so I can draw a few cards to test my deck!". For deck testing most people will just take their decks in a friendly match against their friends and guildies to get a good idea of how well the deck is working.

From a product management perspective, it's a mode that someone had to take time to code and test. As an added free feature it would be unlikely to draw more players, but as an extra bullet point in the subscription list it may help convert free players to paying players.

BigDog
05-14-2013, 04:46 PM
My guess is that you need a feature that fits a few criteria:

1) It has to be something that you would want to do, but isn't "experience-shattering" if you don't have it.

2) Is common enough to remind people about the subscription feature on a relatively frequent basis without becoming invasive and detracting from the experience to the user.

3) Something that you haven't already given away(Because it's F2P you can't do a log-in subscription required, and if they annouced and gave away "goldfishing" they could never take it away without enduring a torrent of bad publicity.

The "goldfishing" fits all of these goals to generate revenue with a "value-added" service that doesn't not seriously detract from the experience if you don't have it while maintaining a presence in the users mind that the subscription option exists. It also gives you a feature to immediately grant to the user on purchase to satisfy the immediate gratification of spending money on a benefit that will accrue over time(packs per week/discount)

houjix
05-14-2013, 04:49 PM
It's a featue most people familiar with an online TCG would expect to be included from the start. As far as coding, it's draw opening hand, draw next card. Newsflash, that's already in the game. Next you'll want to tell us that deck statistics and card count should be addons that we have to pay for since someone had to code it.

I've been fairly supportive of most of their decisions, but this one is dumb.

Turtlewing
05-14-2013, 05:00 PM
It's a featue most people familiar with an online TCG would expect to be included from the start. As far as coding, it's draw opening hand, draw next card. Newsflash, that's already in the game. Next you'll want to tell us that deck statistics and card count should be addons that we have to pay for since someone had to code it.

I've been fairly supportive of most of thier decisions, but this one is dumb.

I disagree. If a feature isn't worth buying a half price booster a week to get it it's probably not worth the regression testing to make sure it doesn't have some horrible bug.

Stok3d
05-14-2013, 05:07 PM
What is Goldfishing? I can't find anything on what this means.

houjix
05-14-2013, 05:08 PM
What is Goldfishing? I can't find anything on what this means.
Test drawing your decks first few draws after you build it.

Devaux
05-14-2013, 05:13 PM
You test your deck against a wall. Isolated like in a goldfish bowl.

Cornholio666
05-14-2013, 06:33 PM
I missed read the kickstarter page NM

GatticusFinch
05-14-2013, 06:51 PM
Did MTGO even have this? If they did, I had no idea (which is just one of the many reasons I am pulling hard for Hex).

It's not gam breaking. You can get better results in unranked games. It's a QoL feature that I see no problem being added in the subscription.

C-Drive
05-14-2013, 07:04 PM
Almost want to ask - is this a troll topic? Not sure I see why there would be any concern at all - nothing less harmful than drawing a test hand or playing a test game in a "goldfish bowl".

Beastmaster
05-14-2013, 08:02 PM
No, I wasn't Trolling. The concern was about what it means to collect digital cards over real cards. When I stopped playing Friday night magic, I owned the cards and could still play casual multiplayer with my friends whenever I wanted. If just drawing a few test hands is something they are going to charge for, what about 3v3, EDH, Emperor etc.

Things that are an unalienable right for physical card owners becomes 'pay for' features in a digital TCG...

It just caught me by surprise that they did this and i'd love some reassurance from Crypto that we wont be likewise surprised by a 'casual multiplayer subscription' etc

Of course the title may have been a bit sensationalist - guess i've been exposed to too much overhyped journalism lately *cough* kotaku *cough*, sorry bout that

Xenavire
05-14-2013, 08:14 PM
Kotaku does goes overboard a fair amount. I remember them making a lawsuit over scribblenauts sound like companies would be shut down, when it would probably settle outside of court, if it even made it that far.

Hibbert
05-14-2013, 08:27 PM
I agree that such a simple feature isn't something I'd expect to see paywalled. The discounted packs and special tournament sound like logical perks for someone willing to pony up a monthly fee in a game like this. The goldfish feature though makes me think of those matrices you see on any F2P MMO showing the benefits of basic/"silver"/"gold" membership.

I hope that 99% of the revenue from this game comes from booster sales and tournament/draft fees. I would really hate to see card collection size, deck "slots", number of sales on the AH, etc. limited by subscription or one time purchases.

ForgedSol
05-14-2013, 09:26 PM
Agree. When I read the subscription idea, I thought it was a new, innovative concept, but then when I saw that goldfishing had to be paid for, that was disappointing and a little wtf. The subscription is a nice value, and I would subscribe just for the boosters/tourney. Goldfishing isn't a value add to the package in my eyes, and rather a negative because it feels like that should be available to everyone.

Fireblast
05-14-2013, 11:45 PM
It's not really goldfishing either, it's only drawing cards.
If I play a combo deck I could have interactions of card being added/modified in my deck...

Sad to see this as a soft sub

~

WSzaboPeter
05-14-2013, 11:50 PM
It think that is a fine addition to the subscription, and something most deckbuilders will use, and only them (with a fairly large collection). I do goldfishing only in limited, because constructed you can get much more data from real playtesting.

Rapkannibale
05-15-2013, 12:15 AM
Honestly their subscription is priced so reasonably and offers so much value that the only reason I could see people not subscribing is if they didn't have a supported payment method like a credit card.

It's 4 bucks. That is like one less star bucks coffee/burger/pack of cigarettes (maybe half a pack depending where you live) a month. I don't think it is unreasonable for them to push nice features behind a subscription. If the game is not profitable that means no more Hex.

If they end up making tons of money from packs and things outside of the sub they will probably not add everything behind the 4 dollars.

Oh have I mentioned that its only 4 bucks a month? :)

C-Drive
05-15-2013, 06:57 AM
Of course the title may have been a bit sensationalist - guess i've been exposed to too much overhyped journalism lately *cough* kotaku *cough*, sorry bout that

I was more responding to the title than your post anyways, I guess.

Does MTGO even have a goldfishing mode? I'm guessing it doesn't, so maybe that's why it's a subscriber feature.

Boojum
05-15-2013, 10:21 AM
I'm king of indifferent to the goldfishing feature, since just about anything useful it tells you can also be revealed by deck stats. If they were going to put together a deck testing feature to help add value to the subscription, I'd rather have it be something like AI-controlled versions of top-8 decklists from recent tournaments, though obviously that would take more work.

Mugaaz
05-15-2013, 11:38 AM
Makes zero intuitive sense why if this was a feature, that would be part of a sub. This is not sexy at all and doesnt want to make me sub at all.

Barov
05-15-2013, 11:44 AM
Makes zero intuitive sense why if this was a feature, that would be part of a sub. This is not sexy at all and doesnt want to make me sub at all.

It's because they don't want to limit anything important from free players. The sub is not suppose to give you a host of benefits it's meant to give you packs at a discount. This is just a little extra.

Rapkannibale
05-15-2013, 01:08 PM
Personally I would have subbed just for the cheaper boosters everything else is just gravy. :)

caffn8d
05-15-2013, 02:18 PM
I picked up a Grand King tier, and I can't imagine not subscribing regularly anyway... but I was also a bit surprised to see "test draws" as something you only got with a sub. I've played enough other TCGs that I can basically do the probabilities in my head (though I'm excited that HEX turns some of that upside down via the nifty mechanics being digital allows). Still just seems an odd omission for non-subscribers. *shrug*

Turtlewing
05-15-2013, 02:23 PM
The thing about goldfish mode is it's a lot less useful in an MMO than in a tabletop game as you can just play a game with the deck you built instead of having to "test it out" because it's 3am and you don't want to wait until your friends wake up. Instead you can just start a match or run a PvE quest, and find out how your deck does in a real game rather than how a spherical version of your deck performs in a frictionless vacuum.

ForgedSol
05-15-2013, 05:30 PM
I disagree, but I don't see how saying that it's a fairly useless feature means that it should be behind a paywall. What if they made it so you had to type in your player id every time to log in, and you only get the "remember my id" mode only if you subscribe? That would make it more likely to get people to subscribe, but that's a terrible idea. What if they did that with "mute" button for the music? What if you had to manually sleeve each individual card if you wanted to change sleeves, but it auto sleeved only if you subscribed? These things aren't necessary, and you can play the game just fine without them, but they do feel like they should be automatically available to everyone.

jai151
05-15-2013, 05:57 PM
I was more responding to the title than your post anyways, I guess.

Does MTGO even have a goldfishing mode? I'm guessing it doesn't, so maybe that's why it's a subscriber feature.

It has a solitaire mode, which serves essentially the same function.

Vibraxus
05-15-2013, 06:06 PM
It has a solitaire mode, which serves essentially the same function.

Sorry, I missed it if it was listed. But do you mean Hex has a solitaire mode so I can just play my PvP against an AI, or is that a MTGO feature? (I dont play MTGO). And if Hex doesnt have that mode....well it would be great (Outside of PvE I mean so we can just playtest our PvP decks)

jai151
05-15-2013, 06:33 PM
Sorry, I missed it if it was listed. But do you mean Hex has a solitaire mode so I can just play my PvP against an AI, or is that a MTGO feature? (I dont play MTGO). And if Hex doesnt have that mode....well it would be great (Outside of PvE I mean so we can just playtest our PvP decks)

MTGO does, sorry

Vibraxus
05-15-2013, 06:34 PM
MTGO does, sorry

Sounds like a new feature we would like to me then. ;)

jai151
05-15-2013, 06:37 PM
Sounds like a new feature we would like to me then. ;)

Oh yeah, solitaire modes are highly useful. I love being able to test decks like that