PDA

View Full Version : PVE Content Past Launch



Tathel
05-15-2013, 12:38 PM
I'm really excited about the game in both the PVE / MMOish style context and the PVP more traditional TCG context.

I am a little concerned about the logistics of supporting the PVE side past launch.

It seems to me that past the initial buy in, all CZE money is generated from PVP based content. (since PVP cards are what is purchasable and PVE is unlocked via gameplay)

This mean that CZE will have very little incentive to ever expand the PVE side of the equation as that will cost development time and garner nothing in profit.

There is the argument that the PVE side encourages people to stay interested and purchase for PVP, but I'm not sure that the PVP market will base their decision making on the PVE nor do I think that the PVE market will be tremendously invested in PVP (past what they purchase while playing the content that will be available at launch)

From a business standpoint with this large a separation between the profit side and the free side I can't imagine the company producing more PVE content unless it is pay to unlock.

It is possible that with expansions they could require a PVE content unlock via buying a starter deck from the series of cards released at the same time, but i'm still not sure they will make enough money from PVE players to warrant this

Has the future of the MMO side been discussed at all / what are other peoples thoughts?

JMFD
05-15-2013, 12:42 PM
One big factor I think you are missing is that PvP cards can be used in PvE. Where if you are having trouble clearing content you can boost your deck by purchasing boosters or loose cards. I think that will help keep them pushing for PvE expansion.

Plus they are taking a huge stance on PvE content, it is one of the most appealing things about this game and I see that being a major draw for players.

ShaolinRaven
05-15-2013, 12:44 PM
I don't see it as a problem since all PvP cards can be used in PvE, people will be purchasing boosters even if they are primarily or only interested in the PvE side of things. I'm sure Crypto will have PvE expanded areas and dungeons to go along with their set expansions. Look at the kickstarter, some of the bonuses are PvE cards and bonus PvE areas mixed in with PvP goodness, I take that as a good sign they will develop for both sides of it.

Edit: Seems JMFD and I had the same idea.:)

Turtlewing
05-15-2013, 12:45 PM
Free to play games work like this:

1. Get as huge a number of people in the door as possible.
2. Convert some of the free player to paying players
3. Profit!

PvE is the free content that gets more players in the door. Every new Dungeon is a chance to go shouting "hey check out our new dungeon you should totally play our game", which gets more people in the door which translates to more conversions to paying customers.

EccentricFan
05-15-2013, 12:50 PM
One big factor I think you are missing is that PvP cards can be used in PvE. Where if you are having trouble clearing content you can boost your deck by purchasing boosters or loose cards. I think that will help keep them pushing for PvE expansion.

Yeah, I actually think it's kind of off calling them PVE and PVP cards, and was a bit confused in the forums the first couple of times I saw people referring to PVP cards or PVP boosters. It's really just cards and PVE exclusive cards. I know Cryptozoic itself refers to them as PVP cards, but as the game is designed, no such card really exists that I've seen.

Cornholio666
05-15-2013, 12:50 PM
Don't Forget Microtransactions! just kidding mostly.
But just becuase all PVE CAN be earned for free doesn't mean they won't sell things on that side for people who want a shortcut right?, or a jaunty hat, or maybe custom font for your player name to appear in .....

But don't they expect to earn some money towards the PVE side through auction house transactions for really rare stuff people want platinum for (real money) for instead of gold.

Fireblast
05-15-2013, 12:58 PM
1800 equipments, 6*8 champions to level up, mercenaries.
You're in for endless (very very very very long) farming/leveling.

~

Tathel
05-15-2013, 01:01 PM
I do believe they have a genuine interest in Lore and PvE,

I'm sure given the kickstarter's success they will have the money for a while. I'm just wondering if by the time they are on their 4th set and things have levelled off, they have to spend time on PVP development as a major focus and have a deadline for when set 5 has to come out in order for them to meet their project profits for the quarter.

How important is making sure that set 4 5 6 have PVE content vs just releasing pvp cards.

This set has about equal pvp and pve cards, can we expect that in the future or is this initial pve the bulk and more of a PVE 20 to PVP 150 card ratio per set in future?

I was just wondering cause we've heard about future card sets, and that the other races are coming in later. Wanting to know a bit about the non-pvp content for those waves of product.

I wonder if they would be open to introducing player generated dungeons(though not PVE cards)? Sometimes a cheap way to allow for users to generate their own content.

Mugaaz
05-15-2013, 01:17 PM
I'm worried about this too. People can talk all they want about F2P models, but people don't design content that inherently has no way of generating revenue. Unless there is some profit coming in through the PvE side I cannot fathom why they are going to devote over half their resources to it for each new set.

Boojum
05-15-2013, 01:18 PM
Don't Forget Microtransactions! just kidding mostly.
But just becuase all PVE CAN be earned for free doesn't mean they won't sell things on that side for people who want a shortcut right?, or a jaunty hat, or maybe custom font for your player name to appear in .....

But don't they expect to earn some money towards the PVE side through auction house transactions for really rare stuff people want platinum for (real money) for instead of gold.

From another forum:


The only thing we're actually selling you is booster packs, and that's a pretty tried-and-true model. We don't have stamina, grinds, or pay-to-win style of mechanics. It's totally comparable to a standard TCG model.


So does this mean there's also no pay-to-unlock skins/cosmetics, alternate art cards, sleeves, XP boosts,additional character slots, etc.?


Yes. We will sell you none of that. We will let you find card sleeves, earn art unlocks, win foils, etc. through the game, but the only thing we're going to sell is boosters.

This is very important to PvE, because it means we can make a balanced, compelling experience. Pay to win mechanics make it basically impossible to do that. You either alienate the majority of your userbase so the big spenders have a good experience, or alienate your big spenders. Both of those are tragic outcomes.


I'm a bit concerned about PvE remaining profitable (and hence supported) in the future too, but am hoping that they've thought that through thoroughly and have a plan.

Tinuvas
05-15-2013, 01:25 PM
I'm really excited about the game in both the PVE / MMOish style context and the PVP more traditional TCG context.

I am a little concerned about the logistics of supporting the PVE side past launch.

Has the future of the MMO side been discussed at all / what are other peoples thoughts?

A BIG concern of mine as well at first. My wife and I love to MMO together, and it was that side of things that made her interested in the game in the first place. I'm a TCG junkie, but she's much more MMO based. The funds we freed up for the pledges were made possible because of the MMO. If the MMO goes stale, that's a REALLY bad thing for me. Not only do I not have a fun date-like activity for my wife and I to enjoy together, but we lose out on half of the hype build up of the game. But then a few thoughts occurred to me:

1. The current build up of CZE shows that at least so far, they have a serious intent to make PVE a big deal. Most of their video content has been about PVE related stuff, even stretch goals (though lack of context has made some of THAT hype fall flat) have been PVE based up to 490k. No company I know would do that without a solid business model that makes that work somehow. I couldn't figure it out though, until:

2. PVP cards work in PVE. Yeah, but big deal. You don't NEED PVP cards to run PVE, they're just nice. You can get around them. You MIGHT be able to pick up the occasional PVP card for farmed gold on the AH. BUT:

3. Equipment. That triggered the aha! moment for me. You and your guildies go into a major dungeon, kill mobs left and right, spend weeks and weeks getting to the boss, Fight him time and time again UNTIL, you KILL him *wild rejoicing by all*. You quickly pull yourself together and check out the SWEET LOOT! A LEGENDARY piece of equipment that goes...wait for it...on a PVP card. There is no way on the Lord's green Earth you can tell me when that happens there won't be a pile of folk that will go running for their credit cards to grab some plat to get THAT card to play with. It's sneaky, it's genius, I love it!

I was REALLY concerned that the PVE side of things would atrophy with time. I'm not anymore. This game just keeps getting better and better. I wonder if we can forgo the power bill this month...

mauvebutterfly
05-15-2013, 01:34 PM
1800 equipments, 6*8 champions to level up, mercenaries.
You're in for endless (very very very very long) farming/leveling.

~

6*8*2 champions to level up if you want to unlock all the art for both the male and female versions.

Actually, slightly less than that, since there aren't any female verren or dwarves.

Fireblast
05-15-2013, 02:26 PM
2. PVP cards work in PVE. Yeah, but big deal. You don't NEED PVP cards to run PVE, they're just nice. You can get around them. You MIGHT be able to pick up the occasional PVP card for farmed gold on the AH. BUT:


My guess is that PvP cards will help clearing the content faster, make insanely fun combo decks.

~

Fleckenwhatever
05-15-2013, 02:29 PM
3. Equipment. That triggered the aha! moment for me. You and your guildies go into a major dungeon, kill mobs left and right, spend weeks and weeks getting to the boss, Fight him time and time again UNTIL, you KILL him *wild rejoicing by all*. You quickly pull yourself together and check out the SWEET LOOT! A LEGENDARY piece of equipment that goes...wait for it...on a PVP card. There is no way on the Lord's green Earth you can tell me when that happens there won't be a pile of folk that will go running for their credit cards to grab some plat to get THAT card to play with. It's sneaky, it's genius, I love it!

Except that equipment is PvE only.

Turtlewing
05-15-2013, 02:31 PM
My guess is that PvP cards will help clearing the content faster, make insanely fun combo decks.

~

I'd expect it to be the other way around. The point of keeping PvE stuff out of PvP is usually to keep things that are fun to do but overpowered/suck to be on the receiving end of out of PvP.

As I understand it PvP cards are the "base set" and PvE are the set they used to expand the capabilities of NPCs, and things that were too broken for PvP.

Fireblast
05-15-2013, 02:37 PM
I'd expect it to be the other way around. The point of keeping PvE stuff out of PvP is usually to keep things that are fun to do but overpowered/suck to be on the receiving end of out of PvP.

As I understand it PvP cards are the "base set" and PvE are the set they used to expand the capabilities of NPCs, and things that were too broken for PvP.

Broken cards will be PvE, but combo enablers could be PvP, that's what I meant

~

Fireblast
05-15-2013, 02:38 PM
Except that equipment is PvE only.

Hey Jim,

You pledged Producer with your worlds champ's winnings? :D

~

Fleckenwhatever
05-15-2013, 02:39 PM
Hey Jim,

You pledged Producer with your worlds champ's winnings? :D

~

The reverse should be true, given that we're still owed for 2012. I -live- in my 2008. :)

Fireblast
05-15-2013, 02:40 PM
:D

Anyway, I'm glad they made this game, will be able to play again with the nice guys I met during my wowtcg's time

~

Turtlewing
05-15-2013, 02:50 PM
Broken cards will be PvE, but combo enablers could be PvP, that's what I meant

~

If you mean there could be PvP cards that are part of powerful combos with PvE cards (or equipment), we're on the same page.

Though I would not have given the credit for "enabling" that to the PvP card, but that's likely a matter of opinion.

Fireblast
05-15-2013, 02:51 PM
If you mean there could be PvP cards that are part of powerful combos with PvE cards (or equipment), we're on the same page.

Though I would not have given the credit for "enabling" that to the PvP card, but that's likely a matter of opinion.

If you look at the PvP card that heals 7 for 2.
With equipment it tutors a coyotle that costs 1 into play, that's a combo enabler already

~

Turtlewing
05-15-2013, 02:58 PM
If you look at the PvP card that heals 7 for 2.
With equipment it tutors a coyotle that costs 1 into play, that's a combo enabler already

~

I would have called the equipment the enabler. (since it is usable in the smaller scope).

Fireblast
05-15-2013, 03:01 PM
I would have called the equipment the enabler. (since it is usable in the smaller scope).

Equipment without card doesn't work (vice versa tho :p)

~

Tinuvas
05-15-2013, 03:05 PM
Except that equipment is PvE only.

That's my point. PvE is 'supposed' to be free to play, thus not being a revenue generator for Crypto, thus not something they'll put future resources into, thus creating atrophy and :( for all PvE folk.

But it's NOT! Crypto pulled a genius sneaky on us. PvP cards have PvE only equipment. Raids pull the PvE equipment and it gives serious motivation to go buy boosters and PvP cards. Crypto gets their money, PvE is saved *hand shakes for everyone*. PvP isn't affected directly, but Crypto revenue is. Everyone wins...except the poor dungeon bosses. Wreck-it Ralph has it pretty good really...

Turtlewing
05-15-2013, 03:07 PM
Equipment without card doesn't work (vice versa tho :p)

~

Right the card is the addict and the equipment is the enabler. Without the enabler the addict will still be an addict it'll just be harder on them.