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funktion
05-15-2013, 06:50 PM
I've watched a few gameplay videos and I'm definitely concerned to know what alternatives there are to "turning dudes sideways" (creature combat) when it comes to winning. With a strictly digital ccg it really breaks down the barriers of many ones with paper counterparts, but there are still issues with it being computer driven.

In magic I'm a huge fan of decks that have deeper mechanics, maybe they still win by eventually turning guys sideways but they get to that point in a unique way. (Hate to use MTG slang here, but it sums things up better than I could) I'm a competitive Johnny, but from what I've at least found so far Hex is trying to appeal primarily to Timmy. It makes sense to me that they would want to appeal to Timmy more than anyone else, I think that's where the largest customer base for these types of games is...

but what about me? I REALLY REALLY want to be a KS backer from what I've seen so far.
It seems like the constant card type has the most potential for me so far.

I do really love some of the shuffle effects regarding creatures (or other cards) that eventually come back into play. With it being a digital shuffler, they can do some really interesting things here that haven't really even been tried before. There's no such thing as playing with marked cards like there is in paper cards, so now you can "mark / alter" the cards as much as you want.

On somewhat related notes:
a) Any word on how the client will handle combos? The mtgo client couldn't be worse in this regards (it's so clunky), digitally simulating the real-world interactions here seems REALLY tough. Creating the same types of shortcuts we use in paper card games is easier said than done.
b) Is there counter-magic?
c) How do you other players feel about closed or open-loop combos?

Mugaaz
05-15-2013, 07:05 PM
They are not going to show complex combo decks in promotional kickstarter videos targeted towards a wide audience. Not seeing any means nothing. Even if they are pro or anti combo, KS promo videos arent the place theyre going to showcase it.

I think I speak for all players that no one minds combo. People hate watching another player goldfish for extended periods of time, and they hate non-interactive decks. Neither of those are anti combo, but combo has a notoriety for being both non-interactive and goldfishy much of the time.

In Magic, I would rather light a $10 bill on fire than play against an Eggs player.

funktion
05-15-2013, 07:13 PM
Oh I don't dissagree with you one single bit. Like I was saying, paper comboing in some cases is much easier for both people in that it eliminates much of the goldfishing...

Yeah I wasn't really expecting to see any complex combos, I actually HOPE they don't show us any actually, part of the fun of them is that it often takes the playerbase quite some time to discover some of the most interesting combos. But what I would at least like to see early on is alternatives to "turn dude sideways, you take 3 damage"

ShaolinRaven
05-15-2013, 07:15 PM
I don't see Hex handling combos any different then other card games, you cast cards that have synergies and build off each other for greater effects. The only real difference will be that certain combos might be effective by leaving them in your deck if a card effects cards around it while it is still in your deck and another card does another complimentary effect while staying in your deck. Which would set up combos that are blind and luck based combos.

As for counter spells, well they have quick action cards so I would expect some type of counter or bounce effects, though we haven't seen any yet.

As far as how I feel about combos, I like card synergies and for cards to work well together, I hate "I win in 2 turns" type of combos or the "I get infinite lock down and you can't do anything" because those are boring to play against. So it depends on what type of combos Hex is building into the game.

Maligance
05-15-2013, 07:19 PM
As long as they have a shortcut key to pass priority and the option to yield priority until the end of phase/turn I think we'll be pretty good.

WalkTheAgony
05-15-2013, 07:19 PM
On somewhat related notes:
a) Any word on how the client will handle combos? The mtgo client couldn't be worse in this regards (it's so clunky), digitally simulating the real-world interactions here seems REALLY tough. Creating the same types of shortcuts we use in paper card games is easier said than done.
b) Is there counter-magic?
c) How do you other players feel about closed or open-loop combos?

A) Since the Game will be Online Based , it should handle combo properly.This game is build to be played on the computer.

B) There is Counter Magic.We seen some ''counter'' move in the gameplay video and Counter Magic is a really basic card and every TCG have them.

C) My background in TCG come mostly from Yu-gi-oh and infinite loop were not legal (In fact any action that would create an infinite loop is forbidden and you can call a judge to ask for a replay). Semi-Loop or Combo do not really affect me in a way that It will most likely end up being inconsistent and you will not pull off the full effect of your combo in time to survive against really aggro deck or most of your card will get blasted by control deck.So overall I would not really care because I will play a really consistent deck that will have some answer to destroy this weak strat. However is a combo/loop deck turn to be really consistent and cause serious issue on the metagame, I will suggest the ban or the limitation of key card to prevent the game to turn into an FTK battle.

funktion
05-15-2013, 07:34 PM
Re WalkTheAgony: I guess I could have been a little more clear, infinite loops do exist in magic but they are not very common, one example you should see which is pretty hilarious would be here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGXG5rNe_tI

Re Malignance: MTGO has exactly what you describe and still executes this horribly, there are just some combo's that can't be done online because they take 30+ minutes to execute online; meanwhile, they only take SECONDS to execute in paper magic. I don't have a solution off the top of my head, but I'd be really interested to read someone else's.

As for others, playing combo decks can be some of the most fun and rewarding play. Ad Nauseum Tendrils in mtg can be great fun to play at times when the opposing deck is one that doesn't just roll over to it, meanwhile playing legacy elves, which I play often can be quite boring at times and turns into "turn 2 I win", which doesn't add as much depth as I'd like to the game... But it still beats vanilla creature battles.

Vibraxus
05-15-2013, 07:34 PM
As far as how I feel about combos, I like card synergies and for cards to work well together, I hate "I win in 2 turns" type of combos or the "I get infinite lock down and you can't do anything" because those are boring to play against. So it depends on what type of combos Hex is building into the game.

Somebody will find those synergies. It is the way of this type of game. I HATE playing aginst that perfect synergy, and make a deck to counter it.....it is the fun of the game.

Oh Do I have a 1/1 flyer deck and you cant block flyers? Too bad, I synergised to fly....You build agaist that deck...Oops, I just made a weenie pump haste deck.....


You can never make a deck that is "perfect" once one style gets popular, everybody works on the deck to kill it....That is the beauty of this game :)

Im sure Hex will alter the infinite turn one game over combos once we players find em.

Im not worried. I just wanna play

WalkTheAgony
05-15-2013, 07:40 PM
But is the loop consistent or not?I know of a couple of Infinite mana and infinite burn strat with some Red card Priestest and a Lich but It wasn't so consistent and top deck in MTG aren't Infinite loop so I can only guess they aren't super great.

And if you are saying infinite loop in Hex.. I believe it might happen but I hope they take action against it like they did in Yu-Gi-Oh (because there is way to gain infinite life/burn for infinite but the key card was banned real quick)

Vibraxus
05-15-2013, 07:48 PM
But is the loop consistent or not?I know of a couple of Infinite mana and infinite burn strat with some Red card Priestest and a Lich but It wasn't so consistent and top deck in MTG aren't Infinite loop so I can only guess they aren't super great.

And if you are saying infinite loop in Hex.. I believe it might happen but I hope they take action against it like they did in Yu-Gi-Oh (because there is way to gain infinite life/burn for infinite but the key card was banned real quick)

Only talking back in day....you could stop the loop and play a fireball (instant) and say "Hey that loop stopped at about 500....." you can guess the next quote. MtG made the combo cards no longer legal in play.

Id imagine the Hex game will do the same when/if those combos are found. Gamers are gamers and will find those combos.....The speed that they be removed from normal play is the question....

And will there be some crazy "Any card goes" format happen as well so we can play them combos and try to stop em?
I hope so actually to both.

funktion
05-15-2013, 07:53 PM
Infinite is not a good word to use when talking about combo's because for it to truly be infinite (meaning the game never ends it just keeps looping) neither play can interact with it whatsoever once it's completed a single loop.

Also, regarding:

... and top deck in MTG aren't Infinite loop so I can only guess they aren't super great...

There is no single top magic deck and never will be (except for in standard sometimes perhaps since the card pool is so much smaller), that's why there is such a deep meta across formats. However, many of the tier 1 decks are often combo decks so saying "they aren't super great" is not true.

Re Vibraxus "mtg mad the combo cards no longer legal in play":
That's not even remotely true...

Maligance
05-15-2013, 07:59 PM
Re Malignance: MTGO has exactly what you describe and still executes this horribly, there are just some combo's that can't be done online because they take 30+ minutes to execute online; meanwhile, they only take SECONDS to execute in paper magic. I don't have a solution off the top of my head, but I'd be really interested to read someone else's.

Really what makes it easy in paper is that once your opponent sees that you can go infinite with your combo they scoop. In online magic this can still be shown and then usually they concede, but sometimes you can just make them go through the effort....

Vibraxus
05-15-2013, 08:02 PM
Infinite is not a good word to use when talking about combo's because for it to truly be infinite (meaning the game never ends it just keeps looping) neither play can interact with it whatsoever once it's completed a single loop.

Also, regarding:


There is no single top magic deck and never will be (except for in standard sometimes perhaps since the card pool is so much smaller), that's why there is such a deep meta across formats. However, many of the tier 1 decks are often combo decks so saying "they aren't super great" is not true.

Re Vibraxus "mtg mad the combo cards no longer legal in play":
That's not even remotely true...

Guess Ill revise based on combos od instant win I was aware of. MTG make the crazy combo of cards that made an instant win turn 2 no longer legal in normal tourny rules (Theres lots of different tourny rules, so that will be up for debate). If there are still legal combos I dont know about....well I wanna see am and shake some hands.

But that being said, I hope the gist of my post was understood.

funktion
05-15-2013, 08:04 PM
Re Malignance: Actually scooping is not what makes it easy, shortcuts are. Take the sword of the meek + thopter foundry combo for example:

In paper you can say, "activate thopter founder make 11 tokens gain 11 life," this takes less than 5 seconds, your opponent nods and you continue play. That is a shortcut, nobody has scooped yet the game could still be long from over.

In online play shortcuts don't exist, you have to execute that combo 11 times, which could easily take 2-3 minutes. This is what I'm getting at. If they developed a code to create a closed loop shortcut and then have your opponent be able to pass priority or agree to it then problem solved I spose.

Vibraxus
05-15-2013, 08:11 PM
Re Malignance: Actually scooping is not what makes it easy, shortcuts are. Take the sword of the meek + thopter foundry combo for example:

In paper you can say, "activate thopter founder make 11 tokens gain 11 life," this takes less than 5 seconds, your opponent nods and you continue play. That is a shortcut, nobody has scooped yet the game could still be long from over.

In online play shortcuts don't exist, you have to execute that combo 11 times, which could easily take 2-3 minutes. This is what I'm getting at. If they developed a code to create a closed loop shortcut and then have your opponent be able to pass priority or agree to it then problem solved I spose.

Perhaps the game UI in general sees an infinite combo and ends the game....reports it to devs a "Houston we have a problem" and cards get fixed?

Why even have that kind of combo in a digital game once it is used? Hell even give e-props to the user who first broke it like "This card is no longer in service because funktion found a way to break it" thus adding ALL kinds of cost to the card.

WalkTheAgony
05-15-2013, 08:19 PM
oww.

funktion
05-15-2013, 08:21 PM
Re Vibraxus: Just because it's what I enjoy (im not trolling you at all) I'll go over a few, this might de-rail the thread, but to be honest, if this level of DEPTH is around in HEX i'll drop at least 250-500 dollars right this moment as a backer on KS (haven't yet cause I'm not totally sold).

All of these examples are CURRENTLY legal in play, you should be careful to make assumptions that they aren't when you don't actually know that's true. Also many of these decks, even when they have a hand that wins on the very first turn can still actually lose the game because in magic it is never impossible for the opponent to interact with your deck:

Legacy Elves (a deck I play often, and it can very rarely turn 1 win though the version I play isn't capable of turn 1 wins anymore since because I wanted a higher consistency of turn 2 wins):
-Forest
-Discard Elvish Spirit Guide twice
-Play Glimpse of Natue
-Play Birchlore Rangers
-Play Nettle Sentinel
After that line of play, you still have three cards in your hand and you can make two mana. Once you have this you've probably won the game by continuing to play guys and tap them to make mana and in the process drawing a second nettle sentinel which will increase your mana production exponentially, after drawing about 10-15 cards you can easily play Emrakul or Ezuri (with concordant crossroads). This is a turn 1 win and although rare it is still TOTALLY legal and the deck is not in any way at all overpowered.

Other examples that still exist and are legal in at least one sanctioned format:
-Dragon Stompy decks
-Oath of druids decks
-Goblin Charbelcher (has no lands in the deck at all)
-Time Vault + Voltaic key perhaps one of the most infamous
-and while we're talking about infamous... Channel + Fireball

funktion
05-15-2013, 08:23 PM
Why even have that kind of combo in a digital game once it is used?

Why? Just because those combos exist doesn't mean that game is broken, or even that the deck that uses them is overpowered in any ways. These decks are extremely common in magic but there are TONS upon TONS of decks that can easily beat even the most broken combo deck... and you know what... that is a huge part of what MAKES THE GAME DEEP AND INTERESTING (read fun) and have such a long lifespan.

Ebynfel
05-15-2013, 08:33 PM
My fondest tournament memory. GenCon '01 type 1 tourney. Opponent: Lotus, Channel, Fireball. Good game. Me:) Force of will, you're at one life? can I show you the Volcanic Mountain and the Lightning bolt in my hand?

funktion
05-15-2013, 08:36 PM
Yeah, ebyn!!!! See that's such a SIMPLE line of play, but it's one that's so much fun. And as simple as it is, it makes the game more interesting, because it adds depth.


Not to mention its a story that will always be funny.

Vibraxus
05-15-2013, 08:40 PM
Well this is Awkward ahah! I have just create a thread for introduction because I could not find one.

For my part you can call me Walk, I play several game at an high level and I used to be a Competitive Player on the Local Scene on Yu-Gi-Oh!, I also contribute a lot to the online community. I love all kind of game scoring from FPS to RTS passing by Combat games and obviously TCG.In real life I am attending art school and I'll take a major in Game Design when I graduate.My main objective in my career would be to lead or even only take part on a large scale mmorpg, I already have few strong idea and project idea on paper.I am currently writing a book and I have written several theater play and helped by a few friend I'll aim the making of a small amateur movie.

In Hex TCG I have several goal, first I will pledge 250$ to obtain the Pro Player ks reward. I want to go big on the scene and I will be making game analysis and share deck strategy on my Youtube Account, a video is already in the making to introduce my channel and share my view on kick starter and show few cards that already have been spoiled that I have interest in. Obviously I will mostly play PvP but depending on the difficulty of Raid and Dungeon I might end up building deck and showing how to defeat every boss and dungeon. Few people, mostly old team mates on my local scene , ask me If I wanted to host a clan.. my answer for the moment is no. I don't have the time , mostly because I commit load of time on project and if I end up being the Guild Master of an Important guild I will not have the time to build a forum, host event for the guild, set-up a ventrilo and I will not be able to actively take part in daily talk with my clannies. It look strange that on one part I will invest time in the game by making video but a 5-10 minute video per day will take me an average of about 30 minute to planned/record and edit, also I always dreamed to have a Youtube channel and sometime I even catch my self talking alone to an imaginary audience about specific League of Legend Champion or certain build order in Starcraft 2.. maybe I need help but in my opinion it only show that I have the tool to sit in front of my computer and give free tips to my monitor.I'll keep the community update on my Channel Status on an other thread in the following week when I have a little more to speak about!

On the Deck part, I am looking forward to play a Coyolte deck. Its the first race that catch my eyes and I loved the lore. I also have some love for the Shin'Hare but I dislike to play Agro deck because I am more of an Anti-Meta/Control player.If Coyolte end up being a let down or if the play style do not appeal to me I'll go with the most consistent deck that will provide me with the best Hand Advantage while keeping an healthy field.

OK, OK I give. It is legal.....Now stop layering me or Ill stop your ass because you took your finger off the card. :p

Anyway, my point is there are some combos that are just broke. And Id like to see this game make that card(s) not usable in regular play. Since they can track every game, they can stop some crazy first turn exploit they didnt catch...but it is game on however in a "freefor all" or what ever style tourny.

This is all IMHO of course

funktion
05-15-2013, 08:49 PM
I don't think you quoted the right person there...
And I think you're completely missing my point. These are the types of decks that I legitimately enjoy playing more than others. Though I won't deny playing ZOO and turning dudes sideways every so often is fun, when that is the only option a game has it's hard to see it lasting long without there being some kind of really wacky powercreep. Combo keeps many other decks in check the same way decks keep combo in check. Rather than flat out ban cards as you suggest, it is FAR more interesting to develop hate cards to counteract them. It makes the game more diverse rather than less diverse.

Also, in a world without combo, the metagame often shifts to who can turn dudes sideways harder... and that's just not interesting.

Vibraxus
05-15-2013, 09:05 PM
I don't think you quoted the right person there...
And I think you're completely missing my point. These are the types of decks that I legitimately enjoy playing more than others. Though I won't deny playing ZOO and turning dudes sideways every so often is fun, when that is the only option a game has it's hard to see it lasting long without there being some kind of really wacky powercreep. Combo keeps many other decks in check the same way decks keep combo in check. Rather than flat out ban cards as you suggest, it is FAR more interesting to develop hate cards to counteract them. It makes the game more diverse rather than less diverse.

Also, in a world without combo, the metagame often shifts to who can turn dudes sideways harder... and that's just not interesting.

Combo is great.....and I use use any and all. Please understand my point is the turn or 2 endless game over combo. Hell even Jace a 100+ card cant win tillike turn 4(ish) ( lawyers Im just giving an example get off my ass im no pro with Gatecrash)

But whatever, my point is once some crazy 1 or 2 turn elite uber crazy combo is is detected...well maybe just maybe it gets removed. This is a game designed for LOTS of players to have fun.

The CRAZY uber players will dominate the tournies...let them.....but dont let them be all elitist over the folks who will just play for fun.

Every MTG tourny I hit there are elitist douchbags...and there are people who just wanna play and have fun dont make this an elitist funhouse.

OK,Im just ranting...ignore me.

funktion
05-15-2013, 09:09 PM
I agree with you, there are jerkfaces no matter where you go. Someone can beat you and not be an elitist... it's actually funny if you notice, many "elitists" that I have met in MTG aren't even remotely good at the game. I've met many of literally the best players in the world, and they weren't elitist in the smallest sense.

Most high level players are actually MORE inclusive of others. The more people that get into the game, the more likely they are to keep their hobby rolling.

WalkTheAgony
05-15-2013, 09:31 PM
Argh my failed post got quoted!

To be honest I feel like we went really to far on that particular question.

There is already some kind of combo/looping potential in Hex: Time Bug (http://hextcg.com/artifact/) with Blue Draw Power (http://hextcg.com/sapphire/)

If you build a deck around Drawing card and getting to those artifact you can easily play endlessly.. but I believe this is a PvE card.

For support on saying do X time the combo.. It all depend on the set of card we have to play with, since they ain't a new tcg team they know about Loop and they might have paid some extra attention to have none of them that could hurt or stall the game experience.

funktion
05-15-2013, 09:35 PM
Yeah, I hadn't realized you could click card previews to see their socket bonuses till just now. I'm pleasantly surprised and it's on the cusp of what I was hoping for.

WalkTheAgony
05-15-2013, 09:41 PM
Yeah, I hadn't realized you could click card previews to see their socket bonuses till just now. I'm pleasantly surprised and it's on the cusp of what I was hoping for.


Yup, but Equipement only work in the PvE.. and if a card have Equipment it most likely mean it will not be a pvp card but it might show us that they will introduce some kind of cool mechanic for people that enjoy combo and loop in pvp. Having 8 Time Bug in 60 card we can assume that we will have 1 in our starting hand and before turn 4 you should had found the next one, but this loop can easily be stopped by blocking one of the Time Bug so a field wipe like Extinction might be needed to set up this combo properly but then you could still get counter by a quick burn.. except if you have a counter spell .. so yeah doing the endless turn loop on an consistent basis will be hard.

funktion
05-15-2013, 09:53 PM
Well actually what prevents you from really making the loop endless as well is that they don't have haste. The known cards don't currently make that viable,,, not to mention like you said I'm more interesting in pvp...

ShaolinRaven
05-16-2013, 07:13 AM
Yup, but Equipement only work in the PvE.. and if a card have Equipment it most likely mean it will not be a pvp card

PvP cards have PvE equipment as well, equipment is not just used on PvE exclusive cards but for a lot of cards both PvP and PvE. It is just that the equipment piece is only used in PvE so does not effect PvP cards outside of a PvE environment.

Turtlewing
05-16-2013, 07:40 AM
Infinite is not a good word to use when talking about combo's ...

Outside of the math department at university "infinite" means "arbitrarily large finite number".

There are a lot of combos in Magic that are self sustaining and only end because the player doing them wins the game or chooses to stop the sequence.

Hell I had a sliver deck that used to end games with "I prevent the next 100,000 damage to all players and deal 100,020 damage to each player", jut to act as a warning about what happens when you don't rotate out sets.

Hexmage
05-16-2013, 08:12 AM
Outside of the math department at university "infinite" means "arbitrarily large finite number".

There are a lot of combos in Magic that are self sustaining and only end because the player doing them wins the game or chooses to stop the sequence.

Hell I had a sliver deck that used to end games with "I prevent the next 100,000 damage to all players and deal 100,020 damage to each player", jut to act as a warning about what happens when you don't rotate out sets.

Not 100% true there are a couple of true self sustaining combos that can't be stopped (butcher lock or Oblivion Ring lock), that actually draw the game when they happen.

As for combo decks Magic is trying to limit what is possible. In legacy anything goes, but it has the best way to stop it. In modern a deck that can consistently kill before turn 4 gets hit by the ban hammer until it can't anymore. In Standard combo decks are generally slow, giving you enough time to stop it from doing its "insane" combo.

caffn8d
05-16-2013, 09:10 AM
I definitely favor the tactics of troop based play since it encourages player interaction, but I enjoy the occasional combo deck as well. I prefer ones that develop slowly enough for an opponent to at least *try* and defend it if they are paying attention. As long as there is a concede button so I can GG and move on, I'm totally ok with having a sustainable combo go off on me when I let one slip by.

Showsni
05-16-2013, 09:52 AM
Not 100% true there are a couple of true self sustaining combos that can't be stopped (butcher lock or Oblivion Ring lock), that actually draw the game when they happen.

As for combo decks Magic is trying to limit what is possible. In legacy anything goes, but it has the best way to stop it. In modern a deck that can consistently kill before turn 4 gets hit by the ban hammer until it can't anymore. In Standard combo decks are generally slow, giving you enough time to stop it from doing its "insane" combo.

Though, I had a lot of fun with Devoted Druid + Quillspike in Standard, and that was never good enough for banning. (Despite being able to go off turn three!)

Personally, if we're using the accepted terms I'm mostly Johnny with a fair amount of Timmy and a little Spike, so I certainly hope I can pull off some crazy combo decks in Hex.

Joolz
05-16-2013, 02:11 PM
I haven't played a lot of MTG so I don't get a lot of the examples being used here, I did play the WoW tcg competitively for a few years though. Seems like there's 2 concerns:

1. That some turn 1/2 unbeatable combo will emerge that breaks the game. I fully expect something like that to emerge eventually for unlimited play, it's somewhat inevitable. If/when the day comes that they have to errata or ban a card the best part is it's so easy to do with a digital card.
2. Some combos will be incredibly annoying to play in a digital format. A lot of this will depend on how well the UI is designed but luckily even that can be streamlined and patched as the game evolves.

Some things we'll just have to grin and bare though I suppose. To give an example from the WoW tcg an almost tier 1 deck existed that could put the opponent in a situation where they had no hand and their hand was emptied every turn. The only way to play a card was if you played the card you drew AND it had to be instant ("Quickaction" in Hex parlance) meaning no troops. When the combo played out your opponent had the following options:
1. Scoop
2. Each player continue their turns until your opponent drew a card to break the combo
3. Each player continue their turns until someone decked out
Since this was in person a lot of shortcuts could be used to speed up 2 or 3 but I can image it'd be almost impossible to make a UI able to easily handle that situation.

funktion
05-16-2013, 02:30 PM
Re Joolz: Yeah the UI is really the biggest barrier here. As for game breaking combos I think that's FAR more interesting for them to print hate cards in response than it is to ban cards. Often times the hate decks are stronger than the combo ones to begin with, and setting a precedent that you're just going to errata or ban cards seems like a slippery slope.

Not just that, but errata'ing cards in a digital game does feel icky to me on some level. Then again, I spose if you approach it from a balance/metagame perspective and are very slow to turn the nobs when errata'ing something rather than changing it all the way into uselessness then there would never really be a need to ban a card.

I guess the other aspect of errata'ing a digital card is that now it is changed across all formats, maybe in one format the card was perfectly healthy whereas another it was toxic. I guess I'm getting at the "patch 1.0x" aspect of online games that feels to me like it doesn't belong in a ccg.

Joolz
05-16-2013, 03:54 PM
I absolutely agree, errata/banning should only ever been used as an absolute last resort whether it's a physical or digital card game. Even in a digital game, hate cards would be much preferable. Even cooler is without physical limitations they could get that hate card out almost instantly.

jai151
05-16-2013, 04:01 PM
I absolutely agree, errata/banning should only ever been used as an absolute last resort whether it's a physical or digital card game. Even in a digital game, hate cards would be much preferable. Even cooler is without physical limitations they could get that hate card out almost instantly.

They've already shown they have cards that play from the deck. So it would be really easy to have one that says "If [card x] is played, you may cast this card from your deck without paying its resource cost"