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Zeldafreakneo
05-18-2013, 09:12 AM
Cryptozoic themselves said that a Digital TGC allow's he game to do things that most physical TGC can't do. Wouldn't it be cool if our Champions, Mercenaries, and raid bosses were represented by actual 3d models with animations?

You could go so far as to represent every card in the game with a 3d model to some capacity( a la Yu-gi-oh Anime)!

It would be best to start early rather then wait with a back log ever mounting. What say you fellow enthusiasts?

ShaolinRaven
05-18-2013, 09:16 AM
I prefer the actual card to a 3d model. If you have a bunch of 3d representations it gets kind of hard to keep track of whats going on and which of those have been buffed or not, or you have to have the cards and the 3d representations and then it just gets cluttered. I wouldn't mind our champions maybe being 3d and especially in PvE showing the gear we have on, but at least for PvP I think it would be problematic.

syphonhail
05-18-2013, 09:19 AM
The more graphically intensive features you add, the more you limit the playerbase. As such, any such additions should be opt-in only if they are added at all.

Kagim
05-18-2013, 09:19 AM
While the idea isn't bad I can see people not liking it because it would likely slow down play because everything you do has to play out it's animation. As well it raises the chance a garbage tier computer lags which would suck during paid tournaments.

The simple card system allows for everything to be clearly and efficiently displayed.

PvE though it could work great, but PvP might not like it because of the above.

Zeldafreakneo
05-18-2013, 09:24 AM
While the idea isn't bad I can see people not liking it because it would likely slow down play because everything you do has to play out it's animation. As well it raises the chance a garbage tier computer lags which would suck during paid tournaments.

The simple card system allows for everything to be clearly and efficiently displayed.

PvE though it could work great, but PvP might not like it because of the above.


This could easily be rectified with Opt-in settings like syphonhail stated. Most games that do this allow skipping of animations or the ability to turn them off. Its all easily toggable.

I primarily want to see this feature in things Like Bosses and whatever champion your using (instead of a static Portrait.) Anything else might be too much but I threw it out there for the sake of argument.

Kagim
05-18-2013, 09:29 AM
This could easily be rectified with Opt-in settings like syphonhail stated. Most games that do this allow skipping of animations or the ability to turn them off. Its all easily toggable.

I primarily want to see this feature in things Like Bosses and whatever champion your using (instead of a static Portrait.) Anything else might be too much but I threw it out there for the sake of argument.

My question is what happens if one person turns it off and the other turns it on? Does player one who turns it off have to sit waiting for player two to watch the animation?

Honestly i think that would be what kills it more, people not wanting to sit and watch a ten-twenty second animation plus five second load in load out times.

Edit: Like I said though I would honestly love to see this in the PvE section, but PvP generally doesn't like waiting for things like this. Anyone remeber people complaining that Starcraft 2 was terrible because better graphics would "slow down the game"....

ShaolinRaven
05-18-2013, 09:35 AM
As I posted in the spell effects thread as well...

The problem with adding a feature with opt in/opt out is that the more you start stacking the longer it takes to set up a game. Opt in for visual effects, wait for other player to choose, Opt out for VO, wait for other player to choose, Opt in for 3d, wait for other player to choose, opt in for next feature, wait for other player to choose, wait for other player to choose, choose deck, wait for other player to choose... It starts getting a bit crowded with all the features everyone wants, but wants to be optional.

Even if you can just default your choices that's a lot of choices to click through when making an account, or a lot of features to search through when you decide to change one or two of them and turn them on or off for pve/pvp.

Zeldafreakneo
05-18-2013, 10:04 AM
My question is what happens if one person turns it off and the other turns it on? Does player one who turns it off have to sit waiting for player two to watch the animation?

Honestly i think that would be what kills it more, people not wanting to sit and watch a ten-twenty second animation plus five second load in load out times.

Edit: Like I said though I would honestly love to see this in the PvE section, but PvP generally doesn't like waiting for things like this. Anyone remeber people complaining that Starcraft 2 was terrible because better graphics would "slow down the game"....

Civ V has this problem. The single player is great and full of fun and vibrant animations. however in Multiplayer all of the animations are turned off with no real way to turn them on. At teh end of the day this is the was you shoudl handle these issues in games.

There is a compromise to be found here in that PvP must be fast and Fluid, while PvE has all the time in the world to "Smell the flowers.". The most minimally invasive 3d models and Animation I can think of for PVP are idle animations for the Champion you play as.

Thanisse
05-18-2013, 10:10 AM
I hope they make nice cutscenes or minianimations at raid bosses , PVP should remain clean and TCGey ... no yugioh animation needed xD

Zeldafreakneo
05-18-2013, 10:11 AM
As I posted in the spell effects thread as well...

The problem with adding a feature with opt in/opt out is that the more you start stacking the longer it takes to set up a game. Opt in for visual effects, wait for other player to choose, Opt out for VO, wait for other player to choose, Opt in for 3d, wait for other player to choose, opt in for next feature, wait for other player to choose, wait for other player to choose, choose deck, wait for other player to choose... It starts getting a bit crowded with all the features everyone wants, but wants to be optional.

Even if you can just default your choices that's a lot of choices to click through when making an account, or a lot of features to search through when you decide to change one or two of them and turn them on or off for pve/pvp.

I would be very impractical to ask the player to set up his visual settings every game. It is expected of any game to have an options menu full of dials, buttons, and sliders for player to fiddle with so they can find whats perfect for them and their device. I believe you are mistaken as to how intrusive these options will be.

However, its seem to be settled (and rightfully so) that these features have little place in PvP. But would you deny at that at least the PvE side of this has great potential to enhance the solo gameplay?

funktion
05-18-2013, 10:16 AM
I'd rather they not put effort into this. For me it just clutters up the game, and to do 3d models right you're dramatically increasing the development time. You'd be excluding a number of other features in order to do this.

I think it's tacky.

ru2dvs
05-18-2013, 10:29 AM
I'd rather they not put effort into this. For me it just clutters up the game, and to do 3d models right you're dramatically increasing the development time. You'd be excluding a number of other features in order to do this.


+1. Given the nice quality of the art that we already have, I'd rather they develop even more content.

Daer
05-18-2013, 10:30 AM
+1 to no 3D models

Xenavire
05-18-2013, 10:36 AM
I have to throw my hat in the 'NO' ring here. Yugioh suffered from it on the DS in the early days, then they killed it off and the games got a lot better.

Same story here, we don't want wasted time.

Genosaurer
05-18-2013, 10:38 AM
omg, if I played a card and like a hologram of it hovered of the card (even if did no attack animation and was just for looks) I would lose even more sleep over this game.

ShaolinRaven
05-18-2013, 10:43 AM
However, its seem to be settled (and rightfully so) that these features have little place in PvP. But would you deny at that at least the PvE side of this has great potential to enhance the solo gameplay?

In solo Pve, no, but in PvE raids, yes. Once again having 3 players plus the raid boss, or potentially group of bosses because I have a feeling some of those raids are going to be 3 players vs an AI team, 3d models would get cluttered fast.

Fireblast
05-18-2013, 11:05 AM
I'd like a 2D interface as a stretch goal

~

Omegahugger
05-18-2013, 11:13 AM
I'm afraid I have to vote No to the animation as well, no matter how pretty it could be. The reasons against are just too good.

However, I wouldn't mind a 3D model of a raid boss. It would be fitting to have a larger representation for something that takes three players to beat than just a small icon, similar to how WOWTCG used oversized cards for their Raid bosses. No need for it to have much more than an idle or a "Now it's MY turn" animation to add sufficient epicness. If you allowed gameplay to flow while the animation lasted it wouldn't slow down gameplay either.

This, of course, requires that raid bosses aren't that common, as it's still a lot more work for the developers for a pretty minor thing. Perhaps it could be saved for special event bosses or endgame opponents.

Isaac
05-18-2013, 12:14 PM
oh god this would be AWESOME! Sure, more likely for PvE, but I could see some people wanting to duke it out with full animations. It makes me think of the summoning cut-scenes from FF7. Admittedly those got a little bogged down and there should be an option to "click to skip." But that feature would really set this game above the other one's out there for me, as someone who loves good art in a game, if it could be done right and not bog things down. Though I think I'd personally prefer animated character actions rather than 3d models. That's probably ludicrously expensive... Maybe it could be something that only happens sometimes with some of the cards... I don't know. There's a lot of problems to solve to make that work. But it would be totally awesome and innovative.

treeboy
05-18-2013, 12:25 PM
As a AAA game industry animator I can say right now this is a non-trivial amount of work and effort. Even if you can share animations across multiple characters, there's nothing to be done about spider vs. humanoid and other drastically different skeletons that would require their own separate and distinct animation packages. The amount of time we're talking is thousands of man hours across probably a dozen or more dedicated character artists, riggers, and animators working constantly not only to implement current card animations but also future cards that are added in future blocks.

To say nothing of the fact that from glancing at the dev team they don't really have the man power or employee specialization to pull it off at the moment.

However seeing something like a 3d animated representation of the player's avatar/hero as a "general" of sorts would be pretty cool and require *much* less work than converting the entire game to 3D. It would be entirely window/set dressing as far as the game was concerned but hey, whatever.

This is of course all assuming their game engine can even do 3d character animation.

MugenMusou
05-18-2013, 01:23 PM
3D option would be cool though it won't really directly affect the game play certainly stands out as a true game. The best 3D animation on TCG I've seen was Eye of Judgment, but after seeing for the first time to speed up the game I always turned the option off. Though I still think its a cool idea.

But if I have a choice, as I posted on the other thread, I'd rather see them spend money to make the world itself 2D/3D and you can actually work around the world of Entrath. My guess is this is probably cheaper than the making every cards 3D, which probably add tons of cost for development as they have to do it for every card.

Zeldafreakneo
05-18-2013, 01:57 PM
However seeing something like a 3d animated representation of the player's avatar/hero as a "general" of sorts would be pretty cool and require *much* less work than converting the entire game to 3D. It would be entirely window/set dressing as far as the game was concerned but hey, whatever.

This is of course all assuming their game engine can even do 3d character animation.

This is all I really want TBH.

Cato
05-18-2013, 02:13 PM
Does anyone remember the animated cards from 'The Eye of Judgement' for PS3... yeah, lets not animate the cards ;)

Also having a 3D sprite pop up from the card would obscure the beautiful artwork.

Kalius
05-18-2013, 04:41 PM
I would actually enjoy a 3D animated model of your champion that has animations when doing certain things so long as it was just flavor and didn't actually slow the game down(doing X triggers Y animation but the game does not wait on the animation before continuing).
And of course a way to toggle animations off for lower-end computers or people who didn't want them in the first place.

MrSeriousBsns
05-19-2013, 03:30 AM
Does anyone remember the animated cards from 'The Eye of Judgement' for PS3... yeah, lets not animate the cards ;)

Also having a 3D sprite pop up from the card would obscure the beautiful artwork.

I would agree that 3D animations for the cards themselves would be distracting and unnecessary. I could possibly see some benefit to a 3D model for your avatar, while in a game, but that would have to be handled very carefully (minimalistic) or it could get very corny.

I think those things, however, are still a separate issue to what the OP was talking about, which is a physical representation of movement while exploring/moving around the world (which I still fully support).

katkillad
05-19-2013, 04:36 AM
The only way I would like this, is if it was PVE only and optional on top of that. It would be too distracting and a time waster for PVP. Personally I think they can come up with something better than 3D models for things though.

Cato
05-19-2013, 05:22 AM
I think those things, however, are still a separate issue to what the OP was talking about, which is a physical representation of movement while exploring/moving around the world (which I still fully support).
I too would support that for PvE, even if it was something minimal or even a ultra-quick cut scene e.g. your Hero (+friends) walking into the Dungeon or facing a Boss.

Stok3d
05-19-2013, 06:47 AM
When I was watching the twitch video, I couldn't help but notice the Rogue Champion graphic at the bottom left of the screen. The graphic of the champion looked hideous. Being Pre-Alpha, I'm sure they just scanned some type of drawing, cut it out in photoshop, and insert the graphic.

Champions are a perfect opportunity to made 3D animated models like they do in SC2. I'm not confident if they want to currently spend the manpower on this, but it would definitely visually improve the interface imo.

Mushroom_C1oud
05-19-2013, 06:55 AM
Instead of 3D cards I think the sprites themselves could just be animated in 2D ala Infinity Wars (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/elphie/infinity-wars-animated-trading-card-game?ref=live)