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View Full Version : How about 3rd person view for Stretch Goal?



MugenMusou
05-18-2013, 01:27 PM
For the 1M stretch goal (I think it will happen), how about making the game a real MMO!

I don't know how they are exactly making PvE mode, but I am assuming it will be a map then you click the part of map, you see little conversation screen in 2D and duel or challenge begins. Once you defeat it, the next point on the map opens up.

But what about making it like a real game? Yu Gi Oh PSP had actual character you can move around, and talk to NPC and do the duel. It doesn't have to be the quality of Skyrim but I think it would be cool to be able to walk around the world of Entrath and discover towns/cities/dungeons.

Hadin
05-18-2013, 01:35 PM
That seems incredibly expensive and time consuming, and I would personally rather have them invest that time and money into creating longevity instead of fluff.

Showsni
05-18-2013, 01:39 PM
That sounds like a change that would have to be implemented from the ground up, and is probably much too costly and time consuming for the time being...

Well, you can always go and play Shandalar if you want something like that.

MugenMusou
05-18-2013, 01:40 PM
Yeah I don't know the actual cost of development but when you think about the Android games with relatively small company having the similar feature (not TCG based), and even the era of Super NES already had this capability, I cannot imagine it would be that expensive to make the basic one. I'm talking about the quality like below:

http://cdn1.spong.com/screen-shot/y/u/yugioh5dst316141l/_-Yu-Gi-Oh-5Ds-Tag-Force-4-PSP-_.jpg

But not cartoon appearance rather more serious appearance that fits the world of HEX.

Ashenor
05-18-2013, 02:33 PM
I would rather have the focus be on churning out new sets for us every 4 months, and not lose steam on that.

Vengus
05-18-2013, 02:43 PM
I have no problem with how it currently is, like some others have mentioned I rather have them spend their time on actual content and cards.

Thanisse
05-18-2013, 02:48 PM
I would rather have the focus be on churning out new sets for us every 4 months, and not lose steam on that.

seconding this
new set every 4 months is perfect for every TCG , and 3D isn't all that special

I don't have much against it , but if I really want something 3D , I do play mass effect or some other game that has really good 3D ... I am sure having 3D will be more or less irelevant for (most) people who like tcgs

I would honestly still play shandalar and be ok with it if I still had it xD .

good artwork on cards is plenty eyecandy for me.

Kijani
05-18-2013, 03:17 PM
2d and rendered 3d is ok for me. I'd rather they implement something like being able to see rendered avatars of other players hanging out on the scenarios when you are on the same map point and being able to click on them to do an inspect, send a group inv, open the trade window, propose a duel, etc. That way the game would be much more close to a true MMO.

Tinuvas
05-18-2013, 03:39 PM
I actually think there will be a lot more to the MMO side of this game than we can give credit for at the moment. Based on split second screen shots in intro videos (they talked about the MMO while panning around a room...note the panning, which felt to me as if it was player controlled, which lends itself to all kinds of speculations about 3d capability etc.) and the like, I don't think we understand how big it will be. It's making me twitch just the NOT knowing, but hey, what do you to. Also, with how they are hyping both sides, and with how cool even the pre-alpha version of the game was in the livestream on PVP, I think we will be blown away by what it can do. I'm prepared to be disappointed, but I'm settling on really excited for the moment in this regard.

Willzyx
05-18-2013, 04:23 PM
I personally think the 3rd person "habbo hotel" business would make it look like a cheap social game.

3rd person makes sense in a traditional MMO like WoW or its peers because three-dimensional movement is part of combat, questing, and general game mechanics. Here, it would really just get in the way. I prefer the Might and Magic: Clash of Heroes direction for a game like this hands-down.

Fireblast
05-18-2013, 04:27 PM
The goal of a TCG is to see your cards (in a very clear fashion), not your "hero"

~

Showsni
05-18-2013, 04:33 PM
In fact, a third person overworld could end up feeling a bit weird; you're running along, when a monster jumps out at you! You step back, reach behind you... and pull a deck of cards out of your sheath, before sitting down and playing a civilised card game.

Actually, isn't there a webcomic about that? Penny Arcade or something?

MrSeriousBsns
05-18-2013, 05:25 PM
I totally agree that having some sort of physical representation (either 3D model or 2D) would be a great boon to the game, if done well, but mostly as a way to draw MMO players or casual gamers (like facebookers) into this game and expand the player base. This would, after you get over the "OMFG, I don't want facebookers in MY game" reaction, be a massive boon to the size of this game (which is what we are all trying to improve). I think it should be one of the final, if not THE final goal which would imply that they'd only do it if they could hire more people to work on that aspect alone without detracting from the TCG side.

I was talking with a friend of mine who is a hardcore MMO player about the game, trying to get him interested. His first question was "So, you walk around a dungeon and then fight monsters with cards", and my response was "well, you don't 'walk' around a dungeon, there will be some sort of representation of movement like moving step by step on a board". His response was not positive. Now, you could totally disagree with my friend, but look at it from his perspective - which is the type of gamer Cryptozoic wants to pull into this game to increase the player base. Everyone who likes TCGs will likely try this game anyway - so we need to create new aspects of this game with stretch goals that pull in other types of gamers.

I'm sure all of us who are super interested in the serious TCG side are fine with whatever representation will be the default option, but this is a stretch goal, and a major one at that. I think that having some sort of team working on the representation side and improving that aspect to give us a sense of "being" in a world instead of just being board game pieces moving step by step along a predetermined path would be very attractive to non-TCG players. The implementation of it WOULD be tricky (so as not to cheapen the look of the game), but if they DID have this and it was done well, I think it would have a MASSIVE impact on pulling in lots of different types of players which is beneficial for all of us. If HEX pulled in those MMO players and casual facebook gamers, that would be huge - tournaments would increase, prizes would increase, and the game would be much more successful.

funktion
05-18-2013, 06:17 PM
I really feel anything like this would detract from the game. It's just going to make it look tacky. Having some sort of avatar, maybe a unique picture or something, seems decent, but I actively DON'T want anything like what you suggested to be in the game.

It takes away from the game, and would be incredibly expensive not to mention time could be spent much better on other gameplay / mechanics / features.

Facilier
05-18-2013, 06:32 PM
I think having Shandalar setting where we can roam around the world doing quests and having random encounters would be awesome. I am really curious to see how quests from cities will work without that.

As far as sitting down to have a game of cards, you can bear in mind that the card games are somewhat abstract representations of competing mages summoning minions to do battle for them, or trying to destroy each other with magical spells.

MugenMusou
05-18-2013, 06:42 PM
I'm a bit surprised for majority people's response is actually negative toward the idea. It make total sense and I agree 100% the core of the game is TCG so its mechanics, depth, frequency of update and so on should have no compromise.

However, one thing that make this game unique is MMO component of the game. Yes. MMO is not equal to RPG, but I remember one of the video the developer mentioned "RPG" word as well.

So based on it, I think at least on PvE side it made total sense to me to fully utilize it. With such well thoughtout story/world, having a little character working around should probably not be much addition to the development especially they have already got over $400k.

ramseytheory
05-18-2013, 06:53 PM
Right now, taking into account stretch goals, we're looking at 45+ dungeons alone - completely ignoring the overworld. And from the footage we've seen, those dungeons seem to at least 10-20 locations each. Think about the number of extra art assets you'd need for those dungeons alone. And then think about doing it for the overworld, and for every location they add to the game in future. And then think about programming in the movement system - which would not be simple, given that their existing codebase presumably isn't built for it. This seems like it would be a million-dollar plus project in its own right, and I'd much rather have that money going into making the actual game better.

MugenMusou
05-18-2013, 07:13 PM
Right now, taking into account stretch goals, we're looking at 45+ dungeons alone - completely ignoring the overworld. And from the footage we've seen, those dungeons seem to at least 10-20 locations each. Think about the number of extra art assets you'd need for those dungeons alone. And then think about doing it for the overworld, and for every location they add to the game in future. And then think about programming in the movement system - which would not be simple, given that their existing codebase presumably isn't built for it. This seems like it would be a million-dollar plus project in its own right, and I'd much rather have that money going into making the actual game better.

This is just a pure guess and no objective data, but I highly doubt moving character around simple world would require $1M. Many Android games have the feature and definitely don't have $1M budget.

As far as the programming goes (I was not a game programmer so can't speak for it specifically) but in a big picture you can actually create overworld on its own and make it primary interface. Once we talk to NPC, they can just bring up what's already in place 2D screen, and actual TCG game or puzzle challenge.

Gremio
05-18-2013, 07:32 PM
I think having Shandalar setting where we can roam around the world doing quests and having random encounters would be awesome. I am really curious to see how quests from cities will work without that.

As far as sitting down to have a game of cards, you can bear in mind that the card games are somewhat abstract representations of competing mages summoning minions to do battle for them, or trying to destroy each other with magical spells.

I actually would love this, and was waiting for someone to mention Shandalar.

However, as ramseytheory stated, there are a lot of dungeons, and creating the assets for all those would be a significant undertaking. And I think the team is much more TCG/art centric. I don't know if their programmers have the experience in programming even the most basic overworld game quickly--although I suppose they could hire for that.

I'm not sure why MrSeriousBsns associates 2D/3D walking environments with "Facebookers"...Facebook applications have nothing of the sort. In fact the standard board game spot-to-spot-down-a-path approach they'll probably take is much *closer* to a flash game experience like those you see on Kongregate.

Again I would love a top-down or isometric free-moving overworld experience. But I can certainly see the challenge in that. It would not have to cheapen the game in the slightest...and if anything would enhance the experience in just about every way.

I don't know the policy on posting videos, but this is shandalar for those that haven't seen it. It's a game from 1997, so I wouldn't really call it a competing product:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbW4q42s6tE

MugenMusou
05-18-2013, 07:51 PM
I actually would love this, and was waiting for someone to mention Shandalar.

I don't know the policy on posting videos, but this is shandalar for those that haven't seen it. It's a game from 1997, so I wouldn't really call it a competing product:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbW4q42s6tE

Yeah this is sort of interface I wanted to see. Other than overworld structure, everything else should already be part of PvE.

MrSeriousBsns
05-18-2013, 09:43 PM
I'm not sure why MrSeriousBsns associates 2D/3D walking environments with "Facebookers"...Facebook applications have nothing of the sort. In fact the standard board game spot-to-spot-down-a-path approach they'll probably take is much *closer* to a flash game experience like those you see on Kongregate.

I wasn't associating the walking environments with Facebook games strictly. I also indicated that it would possibly appeal to hardcore MMO players too. So it was more a reference to a sliding scale where everyone from hardcore to super casual gamers would be drawn to the game if that feature was included.

I agree that, while the Shandalar graphics are obviously outdated, something like that (just a small physical "walking" experience) would be a draw for those people who might be new to the TCG scene or are looking for more from the "MMO" side of the game. I, like others have stated, don't think it detracts at all from the rest of the gameplay in that video.

Deathfog
05-18-2013, 10:02 PM
Seriously RPG maker could whip this out in a few minutes.