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View Full Version : Possibility to view other people games/tournaments LIVE



GamerPET
05-21-2013, 01:06 AM
Hello,

I am PET from GamerPET.com (http://www.gamerpet.com). I run this youtube channel (http://www.youtube.com/gamerpet) where I create honest gaming content.

I'm also a Starcraft 2 caster and ocasional Dota 2. One of the things I love to do is to live broadcast games. I believe this game has a huge potential for something like this and I'm wondering if it will be possible to join and view your friends game. Or for example to see a list of running drafts, click join and have the ability to view each guy cards/deck/etc in that current draft.

Yes I know people could use this to cheat but Dota 2 fixes this by adding a 3 minutes delay. Here we might need more.

Why I want something like this? Well I would love to be able to LIVE CAST something like this. I will find a running tournament, get some beer, put some music, start my live stream and entertain other people by live casting a HEX Tournament. We can talk about strategies, what X can do vs Y and stuff like that.

Any impressions?

Thanks

Nine9nevamine
05-21-2013, 02:08 AM
I agree that broadcasting is the new form of spreading interest. I know that this TCG will require some special tweaks to avoid cheating and what not, but live feeds will be vital if this game is to become an "Esport" or "highly competitive" TCG. I am sure Cryptozoic is looking into this, but is on their secondary list. First they would want the game to be completed as fast as possible with minimal unforeseen issues e.g bugs, imbalanced cards, abused loop holes etc. Again, I believe the ability to stream is vital, but it' s just way too early to begin to speculate.

Digital_Aether
05-21-2013, 02:38 AM
They've stretch goaled to replays. I think the live mode is a feature that will come at some point, but not yet. You can't have just a delay, because a guy might be holding on to a big card for a long time in a match. You'd have to hide both hands and only give the board to prevent cheating.

GamerPET
05-21-2013, 02:45 AM
Hiding the hands might also be ok. That way you might have a bigger surprize when something big comes on the board.
I was kind of hoping this live thing will be on one of the stretch goals.

Digital_Aether
05-21-2013, 03:11 AM
It sounds very much like they hope to bring this game into an eSport kind of scene. It will be a critical feature at some point, but the eSports thing sounded was a strong focus after release, not so much for it.

GamerPET
05-21-2013, 03:25 AM
It sounds very much like they hope to bring this game into an eSport kind of scene. It will be a critical feature at some point, but the eSports thing sounded was a strong focus after release, not so much for it.

I would have really preferred to see something like this than just some "extra PvE dungeons". eSports focus would help to rise the game more. I still think some developers do not realize how important that is.

Digital_Aether
05-21-2013, 03:32 AM
It sounded like they were going through a lot of hurdles with the legality of the dTCG as an eSport. Because you have to buy cards, and luck influences the outcome, it's going to be hard to swing a cash prize on an online competition because of gambling laws. I think the only reason we aren't seeing more about the eSports stuff yet is simply because it's going to be a lot of brainstorming and lawyer time before they have any official policies or design decisions. A tournament for in game plat and booster packs is a great competition amongst normal players, but eSport players are going to want some way to cash out their loot. I think by the time this game goes to actual launch and not just beta, they'll be talking about all the ways it can support an eSports scene to bring in waves of players on the 'official' day 1 next summer.

Mavian
05-21-2013, 03:54 AM
It sounded like they were going through a lot of hurdles with the legality of the dTCG as an eSport. Because you have to buy cards, and luck influences the outcome, it's going to be hard to swing a cash prize on an online competition because of gambling laws. I think the only reason we aren't seeing more about the eSports stuff yet is simply because it's going to be a lot of brainstorming and lawyer time before they have any official policies or design decisions. A tournament for in game plat and booster packs is a great competition amongst normal players, but eSport players are going to want some way to cash out their loot. I think by the time this game goes to actual launch and not just beta, they'll be talking about all the ways it can support an eSports scene to bring in waves of players on the 'official' day 1 next summer.

There's always the possibility of 3rd party tournaments like LoL and Starcraft have. I'm not sure the legalities of the running the tournaments 3rd party, but if it can be done, they'd still likely want to stream the games.I mean, there's ways around this, you could setup a stream setup to cover up your hand and deck, but a real spectator mode would be awesome.

Digital_Aether
05-21-2013, 04:11 AM
Oh I agree entirely, and I think we'll see that option. I just don't think they want to say anything official because they don't want to let anyone down if it isn't in by a certain date or if their strategy changes and it isn't implemented as they had said.

caffn8d
05-21-2013, 05:23 AM
As an unabashed game voyeur I would love something like this. Though even just watching replays of good games would be fine for me in the short term. I don't always feel like being competitive, but I do very much appreciate the expertise displayed by good PvP gamers once I have a good grasp of the game myself. I've probably watched more Android: Netrunner and Natural Selection 2 than I've actually played. :)

Arbiter
05-21-2013, 05:38 AM
You could go live if you only did finals and kept spectator view to see only what both players are seeing as opponents. If you want to see hands or hidden information, that would have to wait until after the match. Pre-final matches probably potentially give away too much information.

Depending on how the replay function works, this could give rise to some entertaining and informative videos after the match.

GamerPET
05-21-2013, 05:39 AM
It sounded like they were going through a lot of hurdles with the legality of the dTCG as an eSport. Because you have to buy cards, and luck influences the outcome, it's going to be hard to swing a cash prize on an online competition because of gambling laws. I think the only reason we aren't seeing more about the eSports stuff yet is simply because it's going to be a lot of brainstorming and lawyer time before they have any official policies or design decisions. A tournament for in game plat and booster packs is a great competition amongst normal players, but eSport players are going to want some way to cash out their loot. I think by the time this game goes to actual launch and not just beta, they'll be talking about all the ways it can support an eSports scene to bring in waves of players on the 'official' day 1 next summer.

Well I'm not really talking here about eSports as a big competitions. We already saw Cryptozoic talk about the plans they have. I'm really interested in what we, the viewers can do to WATCH HEX and not only play it.

Not sure if you watch a lot of games but lately I don't really watch TV anymore. I just open up a stream and watch some dude play. I also watch a lot of Dota 2 and Starcraft 2. Either players playing or professional tournaments.

Thrawn
05-21-2013, 08:00 AM
You could go live if you only did finals and kept spectator view to see only what both players are seeing as opponents. If you want to see hands or hidden information, that would have to wait until after the match. Pre-final matches probably potentially give away too much information.

This is the issue I was going to post as to why live wouldn't work very well in a more serious competitive setting.

You pick up a great bomb in a draft that catches people off guard, or are running some new combo deck in constructed. You get to the finals and the guy you haven't played against yet all day has already been watching someone's live stream to see what deck you are running. Before you even play your first card he knows what you are playing, how he's going to play around it, and what answers you have in your deck.

Even if it had a delay your first game in a tournament might have been hours before that final so the delay doesn't do much good.

GamerPET
05-21-2013, 08:20 AM
The other finalist will not have time to watch a stream because he is busy playing his own games.

If you have a bomb or a style of play, what does he stop him for going to some of his adversaries and asking them what you are using? And I'm talking here about real life.

Thrawn
05-21-2013, 08:27 AM
The other finalist will not have time to watch a stream because he is busy playing his own games.

One of my games is done in two, you go to a game three. I now have probably thirty minutes to an hour to spend time doing nothing but watch that game and learn what's in your deck.

Nothing stops someone from asking his opponents, but he also has to talk to and convince an opponent to more or less cheat for him and trust what they are say. With a stream you can see everything in perfect detail and it's instantly available to anyone who wants it.

I have no idea what you mean about "real life".

KingBlackstone
05-21-2013, 11:07 AM
This is so important to me. A spectator mode will invariably make or break this game, if it's intended to be competitive.

jai151
05-21-2013, 11:11 AM
The other finalist will not have time to watch a stream because he is busy playing his own games.

If you have a bomb or a style of play, what does he stop him for going to some of his adversaries and asking them what you are using? And I'm talking here about real life.

The other finalist doesn't have to watch the stream. He could have an accomplice watching the stream.

There's a reason they don't allow you to see the coach's playbook when you're watching NFL, there's a reason they only show the WCOP after it's over.

GamerPET
05-21-2013, 03:14 PM
The live thing was just an idea. They could make it so the hands and the deck are not visible.

However i would still love to see replays of played tournaments.

Kalius
05-21-2013, 03:46 PM
easy enough way to deal with it is to just hide the cards in the player's hands from anyone spectating. Then there's no possibility for cheating, and people can still watch.

Voices
05-22-2013, 07:45 AM
Just adding a thing that I haven't seen in this post so far. For me, at any rate, Twitch has become the new YouTube in the sense that when I wanted to check a game out in the past, I went to YT. When I want to check a game out these days, I go to Twitch. Even if 'checking a game out' in this way is not dependent on whether cards are hidden or not or whether there are broadcasting delays etc., a spectator mode is important due to way in which casters/streamers are able to make sense of the game for new people.

But it is indeed hard to think of a fully workable streaming mode for a game of this kind that is able to combine a pleasurable viewing experience for the audience with the competitiveness of and fairness to the players...

4acrossisemu
05-22-2013, 08:08 AM
I would hope so Shadow Era has it, so i think it's a must for esports these days.

Thrawn
05-22-2013, 08:09 AM
easy enough way to deal with it is to just hide the cards in the player's hands from anyone spectating. Then there's no possibility for cheating, and people can still watch.

First few posts on the this page explain why hiding the hands isn't enough.



You pick up a great bomb in a draft that catches people off guard, or are running some new combo deck in constructed. You get to the finals and the guy you haven't played against yet all day has already been watching someone's live stream to see what deck you are running. Before you even play your first card he knows what you are playing, how he's going to play around it, and what answers you have in your deck.

Even if it had a delay your first game in a tournament might have been hours before that final so the delay doesn't do much good.


You could go live if you only did finals and kept spectator view to see only what both players are seeing as opponents. If you want to see hands or hidden information, that would have to wait until after the match. Pre-final matches probably potentially give away too much information.

Depending on how the replay function works, this could give rise to some entertaining and informative videos after the match.

KingBlackstone
05-22-2013, 08:15 AM
easy enough way to deal with it is to just hide the cards in the player's hands from anyone spectating. Then there's no possibility for cheating, and people can still watch.

This.
If a pro-level is streaming his side and he gets stream-sniped, it was his own fault (and it's just one loss, who cares).

ramseytheory
05-22-2013, 08:47 AM
There's still no reason why the final of a big tournament couldn't be live-streamed with hidden hands, though, right?

KingBlackstone
05-22-2013, 09:07 AM
There's still no reason why the final of a big tournament couldn't be live-streamed with hidden hands, though, right?

Right. Basically there would be two "player" spots and multiple "spectator" spots for the match. The spectators would be able to see all details of the board except the contents of players' hands or decks. Normal matchmaking games probably won't have spectators, I would imagine, but tournaments would have to. Every livestream account for each site covering the event would need a spot.

Deathfog
05-22-2013, 10:01 AM
Having active TwitchTV channels up every night and day is a great way to build up a user base. Having these running to select casters or everyone in general will help make this a huge success faster. Building in tech to the client to make this easier is a good investment for them.

GamerPET
05-29-2013, 04:22 AM
I'm curious if there will be at least the possibility to at least load tournaments that have already been play by loading a replay.

Voices
05-29-2013, 04:29 AM
I really hope they come up with something interesting and unique for streamers and casters. Perhaps something of this in a new stretch goal, should that be needed?

Zomnivore
05-29-2013, 06:46 AM
I want to see the players next cards to be put into the hand, I think that would be a cool, oh snap sort of suspense thing.

Hollywood
05-29-2013, 06:50 AM
One of my friends played a match against Kibler on MTGO while Kibler was streaming it. Perfect knowledge ftw!

Voices
05-30-2013, 02:50 PM
This is from the Gamasutra article:

"We already have a dedicated TwitchTV channel for HEX and we will be implementing a spectator arena mode in the game for players who enjoy watching high level matches and discovering the full potential of the game."

Now, all we need is more information about HOW this is going to work :)

Source: http://gamasutra.com/blogs/ZoranCunningham/20130530/193030/Cryptozoic_Entertainment_on_designing_HEX_the_worl ds_first_digital_MMOTCG.php