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View Full Version : And Grand King is Sold Out!



Floru
05-21-2013, 01:17 PM
Congrats Cryptozotic on this monumental Sell-Out of Tiers!

This is just epic and amazing all at once.

So, does anyone think more people will bite at the Primal Tier or will we see more of a ramp on the King Tier?

I can't wait until Beta!

EccentricFan
05-21-2013, 01:20 PM
If they really want the money to keep rolling in, they should add bonuses to legendary stretch goal that make the remaining $250 tiers more attractive so they risk selling out as well.

Ramshackal
05-21-2013, 01:20 PM
I'm hoping they release more info about PVE and get people to jump to the other $250 tiers. Or perhaps buff them in some way? Right now the benefits of them are very hard to measure.

Floru
05-21-2013, 01:23 PM
If they really want the money to keep rolling in, they should add bonuses to legendary stretch goal that make the remaining $250 tiers more attractive so they risk selling out as well.

Or they could leave the collector alone, I'll realize that getting 4 more is the way and I'll be the king of HEX collectibles >.> Kidding. The Collector Tier is by-far the second-best or possibly the best $250 tier. They don't need to add to the collector tier. They should be showing-off one or two of the collector art cards to start with, and if they draw the crowd in with 'ooohhhs' and 'aahhhs' with the art and what the card does, the Collector Tier will vanish in no time.

Hadin
05-21-2013, 01:24 PM
I'm hoping they release more info about PVE and get people to jump to the other $250 tiers. Or perhaps buff them in some way? Right now the benefits of them are very hard to measure.

They've still got over 2 weeks (which seems pretty damn ridiculous considering the momentum)

Turtlewing
05-21-2013, 01:28 PM
I'd bet on stacking the remaining $250 tiers and.or King tier being the new thing.

caffn8d
05-21-2013, 01:33 PM
I'll be kind of surprised if we don't see a new, more expensive Grand King-ish tier pop up.

MrCwis
05-21-2013, 01:35 PM
They could always add more pro tiers or Grand King tiers, at a higher donation value of course.

Karnegal
05-21-2013, 01:40 PM
Or they could leave the collector alone, I'll realize that getting 4 more is the way and I'll be the king of HEX collectibles >.> Kidding. The Collector Tier is by-far the second-best or possibly the best $250 tier. They don't need to add to the collector tier. They should be showing-off one or two of the collector art cards to start with, and if they draw the crowd in with 'ooohhhs' and 'aahhhs' with the art and what the card does, the Collector Tier will vanish in no time.

The tier isn't appealing to many actual collectors though. Collectors are going to want playsets. With the small number of cards available they'll be hard to complete even if you buy a collector tier. A fair number of collectors would rather play 4 normal versions (probably extended art foils) than 1 special art and 3 normals. Because there will be so few collector versions, the price they'll have to pay to actually complete sets will be prohibitive for some.

So, it's mainly a re-sale tier for most people. add to that the fact that you don't know how playable the alt-art cards will be. If no one plays it, it doesn't matter how rare it is, there will be a small market for it. The tier certainly needs work. The Dungeon Crawler tier is easily the 2nd most appealing tier based on the number of orders.

Floru
05-21-2013, 01:50 PM
The tier isn't appealing to many actual collectors though. Collectors are going to want playsets. With the small number of cards available they'll be hard to complete even if you buy a collector tier. A fair number of collectors would rather play 4 normal versions (probably extended art foils) than 1 special art and 3 normals. Because there will be so few collector versions, the price they'll have to pay to actually complete sets will be prohibitive for some.

So, it's mainly a re-sale tier for most people. add to that the fact that you don't know how playable the alt-art cards will be. If no one plays it, it doesn't matter how rare it is, there will be a small market for it. The tier certainly needs work. The Dungeon Crawler tier is easily the 2nd most appealing tier based on the number of orders.

Thus why get x4 Collectors. 1 is too little. I agree it's going to be a tiny market, but it may be well worth is with an entire set.

scyphrre
05-21-2013, 01:51 PM
The Dungeon Crawler tier is easily the 2nd most appealing tier based on the number of orders.

Aside from the number of orders what makes it more appealing? For someone like myself who is interested in PvP but missed out on the pro-player tier, I decided to go with guild master so I could gift the 90 extra boosters to myself (if needed). What they really need is another $250 tier geared towards PvP - 3 PvE focused tiers and only 1 for PvP seems off.

ForgedSol
05-21-2013, 01:56 PM
The tier isn't appealing to many actual collectors though. Collectors are going to want playsets. With the small number of cards available they'll be hard to complete even if you buy a collector tier. A fair number of collectors would rather play 4 normal versions (probably extended art foils) than 1 special art and 3 normals. Because there will be so few collector versions, the price they'll have to pay to actually complete sets will be prohibitive for some.

So, it's mainly a re-sale tier for most people. add to that the fact that you don't know how playable the alt-art cards will be. If no one plays it, it doesn't matter how rare it is, there will be a small market for it. The tier certainly needs work. The Dungeon Crawler tier is easily the 2nd most appealing tier based on the number of orders.


Yup. This. Let's say that all the Collector Tiers sell out. Add that to the Grand King tiers, then you have 2000 copies. Now you have to hope that 3/4ths of those people actually don't actually want to collect those cards for there to be 250 playsets that can possibly migrate to the remaining 1/4th. If that's all the demand for any card that's already going to be hard enough. Now if it's a card that people actually want, a popular constructed card? Now you are competing with a lot more people who are all holding onto 1, 2, or three copies of those cards all trying to complete sets. As the game grows, the harder and harder it's going to be, and it's going to suck as a collector who just wants to have a full playset. Then over time, people with these perks will drop out and it will be even harder. And that's only if the Collector Tier sells out. Getting just one card, telling you your set isn't even close to complete is a frustrating scenario to think about as a Collector.

Hadin
05-21-2013, 01:56 PM
Aside from the number of orders what makes it more appealing? For someone like myself who is interested in PvP but missed out on the pro-player tier, I decided to go with guild master so I could gift the 90 extra boosters to myself (if needed). What they really need is another $250 tier geared towards PvP - 3 PvE focused tiers and only 1 for PvP seems off.

The big appeal is that it is another money maker. It will continue to generate additional income for you with the extra drops you get. The 90 booster packs from guild master are nice, but there are going to be a ridiculous amount of set 1 boosters, whereas there will be very little PvE loot floating around.

lord_simon3
05-21-2013, 01:57 PM
Aside from the number of orders what makes it more appealing? For someone like myself who is interested in PvP but missed out on the pro-player tier, I decided to go with guild master so I could gift the 90 extra boosters to myself (if needed). What they really need is another $250 tier geared towards PvP - 3 PvE focused tiers and only 1 for PvP seems off.

Unless they add another tier similar to Pro, I might be skipping this KS all together. I have no interest in the PvE side of it.

ForgedSol
05-21-2013, 02:00 PM
Thus why get x4 Collectors. 1 is too little. I agree it's going to be a tiny market, but it may be well worth is with an entire set.

Thus why the Collector Tier isn't appealing for a collector. "Just get four of them and now it's appealing." That in no way compares to the Pro Tier that is appealing as a single or multiple tier. Maybe a person who only want to sell those cards it's appealing, but not as someone who wants to keep the cards. It should be renamed as an "Art Dealer" tier, and not a Collector Tier.

Boojum
05-21-2013, 02:03 PM
Unless they add another tier similar to Pro, I might be skipping this KS all together. I have no interest in the PvE side of it.

Even if you're not interested in PvE, the tiers up to and including King give lots of discounted boosters, which equates to a decent deck-building base and plenty of draft fodder (and you can always trade the PvE bonuses for more packs or platinum).

Marsden
05-21-2013, 02:03 PM
Unless they add another tier similar to Pro, I might be skipping this KS all together. I have no interest in the PvE side of it.

Even if you just want to draft, you should pick up King for the $ to pack value surely if you can't get Pro-equivalent?

scyphrre
05-21-2013, 02:05 PM
The big appeal is that it is another money maker. It will continue to generate additional income for you with the extra drops you get.

I assume you mean Gold money-maker - so it's all PvE benefit right? For a PvP focused player would you agree that guild masters is the next best choice with pro being sold out?

Floru
05-21-2013, 02:10 PM
Thus why the Collector Tier isn't appealing for a collector. "Just get four of them and now it's appealing." That in no way compares to the Pro Tier that is appealing as a single or multiple tier. Maybe a person who only want to sell those cards it's appealing, but not as someone who wants to keep the cards. It should be renamed as an "Art Dealer" tier, and not a Collector Tier.

We'll just have to see how Crypo handles it or doesn't in the upcoming days.

Boojum
05-21-2013, 02:12 PM
I assume you mean Gold money-maker - so it's all PvE benefit right? For a PvP focused player would you agree that guild masters is the next best choice with pro being sold out?

Absolutely not. You can merge multiple pledges, so getting two Kings merged blows away the extra 90 packs from guild master (and for $10 less).

Turtlewing
05-21-2013, 02:14 PM
Thus why the Collector Tier isn't appealing for a collector. "Just get four of them and now it's appealing." That in no way compares to the Pro Tier that is appealing as a single or multiple tier. Maybe a person who only want to sell those cards it's appealing, but not as someone who wants to keep the cards. It should be renamed as an "Art Dealer" tier, and not a Collector Tier.

If you intend on collecting 4 of the collector tier AA cards, getting 1 or more of each automatically on release brings you that much closer to having that set of 4.

Hadin
05-21-2013, 02:18 PM
I assume you mean Gold money-maker - so it's all PvE benefit right? For a PvP focused player would you agree that guild masters is the next best choice with pro being sold out?

Guild masters is a terrible one currently. As far as the PvE loot goes, there is no way of knowing for certain how well high-end PvE gear will translate into pvp/cash-based items.

Karnegal
05-21-2013, 02:23 PM
Aside from the number of orders what makes it more appealing? For someone like myself who is interested in PvP but missed out on the pro-player tier, I decided to go with guild master so I could gift the 90 extra boosters to myself (if needed). What they really need is another $250 tier geared towards PvP - 3 PvE focused tiers and only 1 for PvP seems off.

I mean, empirically, it is more appealing to fans generally as evidenced by it's greater number of sales

Turtlewing
05-21-2013, 02:24 PM
I assume you mean Gold money-maker - so it's all PvE benefit right? For a PvP focused player would you agree that guild masters is the next best choice with pro being sold out?

For a pure PvP player who never does PvE the only valuable $250 tier is Pro Player.

[edit] Well I guess collector is OK, more PvP alternate art cards, and all. But only if you like constructed formats.

Karnegal
05-21-2013, 02:26 PM
If you intend on collecting 4 of the collector tier AA cards, getting 1 or more of each automatically on release brings you that much closer to having that set of 4.

What we're saying is that even starting with 1, it will be very difficult or expensive to complete a set. For many, prohibitively so.

Genosaurer
05-21-2013, 02:30 PM
If you never ever do PvE, Pro Player > 2x king > other 250$ tiers. If you partly do the PvE, then I think Pro Player > Dungeon Crawler > 2x king.

Dungeon crawler's 100% loot bonus works with ALL future PvE content for life. How much good are you really going to get out of 90 set 1 boosters? Draft wise 2x king is better. PvE wise Dungeon Crawler is better. Also Guild Leader doesn't stack with others in guild with same perks (Grand Kings). Imo, you are wasting your many with your current choice.

Ashenor
05-21-2013, 02:37 PM
I honestly think we will see a few tweaks to the $250 tiers, they won't reopen and sold out ones, and bring Add ons out in the next few days to generate the main buzz/income the remaining days.

Kings will keep plugging away.

scyphrre
05-21-2013, 02:49 PM
Absolutely not. You can merge multiple pledges, so getting two Kings merged blows away the extra 90 packs from guild master (and for $10 less).


If you never ever do PvE, Pro Player > 2x king > other 250$ tiers. If you partly do the PvE, then I think Pro Player > Dungeon Crawler > 2x king.

Dungeon crawler's 100% loot bonus works with ALL future PvE content for life. How much good are you really going to get out of 90 set 1 boosters? Draft wise 2x king is better. PvE wise Dungeon Crawler is better. Also Guild Leader doesn't stack with others in guild with same perks (Grand Kings). Imo, you are wasting your many with your current choice.

Thanks guys, that's exactly what I needed to hear. I'll probably switch to dungeon crawler then, since I will likely do some PvE at some point.

lord_simon3
05-21-2013, 02:53 PM
If you never ever do PvE, Pro Player > 2x king > other 250$ tiers. If you partly do the PvE, then I think Pro Player > Dungeon Crawler > 2x king.

Exactly. The value of the Pro tier is significantly greater than any other tier for a PvP player. Since that is sold out, my interest in this game drops a LOT. Even though $250 is more than I'm really willing to spend, the long term value is incredible. What I'm not willing to do however is spend $50 every time a new set comes out. The pro tier solves this problem by frontloading a little more money in exchange for being able to save money on future sets down the road.

Turtlewing
05-21-2013, 03:00 PM
What we're saying is that even starting with 1, it will be very difficult or expensive to complete a set. For many, prohibitively so.

Well, yes. And I'm saying "that's the point". if it was easy to collect them all they wouldn't have any bragging rights for collectors.

Showsni
05-21-2013, 03:06 PM
I think "Collector" is a fine name for a tier that just gives one of each of the alt art exclusives each year; someone who's a pure collector only need one copy of every card, to sit in their binder and look pretty. You only need 4 copies of a card if you're planning on actually playing with them, which to me isn't really what being a Collector is all about.

Truhls
05-21-2013, 03:09 PM
Actually almost every collector in MTG gets a playset. The reason? A playset is worth more then 4 singles. Real collectors dont just get one.

ForgedSol
05-21-2013, 03:13 PM
Well, yes. And I'm saying "that's the point". if it was easy to collect them all they wouldn't have any bragging rights for collectors.

What you're not getting is that we're saying that no one is buying in on the Collector tier because it's too rare for the aspirations of many collector type players. Yes, the more rare, the more valuable, the greater the bragging rights. But 8000 copies (2000 playsets) of a card compared to 2000 (500 playsets) is still a small amount if the game succeeds. They are still collectible. And if the game doesn't succeed, then the number of copies doesn't matter because there is no one to want them.

Clearly making the cards seemingly prohibitively rare and difficult to acquire misses the point if there are only 30 people backing that tier. Not every collector wants a Black Lotus. Some just want 4 copies of their favorite looking card.

Marsden
05-21-2013, 03:44 PM
Not every collector wants a Black Lotus. Some just want 4 copies of their favorite looking card.

I collected over 150 Craw Wurms once. For some unfathomable reason.

Karnegal
05-21-2013, 04:01 PM
What you're not getting is that we're saying that no one is buying in on the Collector tier because it's too rare for the aspirations of many collector type players. Yes, the more rare, the more valuable, the greater the bragging rights. But 8000 copies (2000 playsets) of a card compared to 2000 (500 playsets) is still a small amount if the game succeeds. They are still collectible. And if the game doesn't succeed, then the number of copies doesn't matter because there is no one to want them.

Clearly making the cards seemingly prohibitively rare and difficult to acquire misses the point if there are only 30 people backing that tier. Not every collector wants a Black Lotus. Some just want 4 copies of their favorite looking card.

Yes, this is the point. The tier is priced to appeal to people with a reasonable TCG budget. People with a reasonable budget aren't going to be ale to shell out a fortune to finish their sets. If the tier is designed to appeal to collectors it's failing. If it's supposed to appeal to re-seller, then fine, but that isn't building the community.

Bloodiron
05-21-2013, 04:05 PM
I collected over 150 Craw Wurms once. For some unfathomable reason.

Over 200 copies of Disenchant and Angel of Mercy first time I played MtG. Then one day I opened up the binders and I was like...dafuq did I keep these for?

Chance
05-21-2013, 04:07 PM
I collected over 150 Craw Wurms once. For some unfathomable reason.

LOL what

Marsden
05-21-2013, 04:12 PM
I collected over 150 Craw Wurms once. For some unfathomable reason.


LOL what

No effort or resources were actually put into getting them, friends just threw them my way whenever they opened packs.

I suppose the funnier bit is that the guy who bought my collection ended up with them and probably had a similar reaction to yours :)

Lochar
05-21-2013, 04:13 PM
No effort or resources were actually put into getting them, friends just threw them my way whenever they opened packs.

I suppose the funnier bit is that the guy who bought my collection ended up with them and probably had a similar reaction to yours :)

I'm impressed. And glad I wasn't the one to buy your collection. I just went and looked it up on Oracle. Why the hell would you collect something that doesn't even have an ability or cheap cost? :P

Marsden
05-21-2013, 04:18 PM
I'm impressed. And glad I wasn't the one to buy your collection. I just went and looked it up on Oracle. Why the hell would you collect something that doesn't even have an ability or cheap cost? :P

For the hell of it. People actually just gave me Alphas and Betas of them at times, because they thought it was funny.
I did play a few times with a 40 Wyrm, 20 Forest deck IIRC. It wasn't much use. :rolleyes:

This was all back in 95/96. Haven't played a TCG properly since then, looking forward to getting back into it all with Hex.

Chance
05-21-2013, 04:21 PM
To be fair I probably had close to 60 Yoked Plowbeast and would curse loudly every time I opened a pack with 2 more of them :/

Sci3nce
05-21-2013, 04:22 PM
Aside from the number of orders what makes it more appealing? For someone like myself who is interested in PvP but missed out on the pro-player tier, I decided to go with guild master so I could gift the 90 extra boosters to myself (if needed). What they really need is another $250 tier geared towards PvP - 3 PvE focused tiers and only 1 for PvP seems off.

Don't do it, Drop your GM tier and grab 2x King, you'll thank yourself later. More Booster, more PvP AA cards. It's hands down better than any of the crap PvE 250 tiers, and is $10 less.

Fateanomaly
05-21-2013, 08:05 PM
Lol, the guildmaster and raid leader tier is so pathetic. There are only less than 10 backers of each.

Those 2 tier are seriously not worth it. Its like they are just there to buff GK up.

Tyrfang
05-21-2013, 08:39 PM
I'll laugh if Raid Leader turns out to be incredibly useful.

Digital_Aether
05-21-2013, 09:00 PM
One health per round, an extra card on the draw, and a saving throw for blocking damage? I could see that pushing you over the edge for a clutch win. One thing to keep in mind for raiding is that you build momentum for each win you have, including optional fights. If you ever lose, you lose momentum. The momentum you have determines the quality of loot drops from the final boss. Raid leader will help to make sure you are consistent enough to get the maximum reward out of a dungeon.

Tyrfang
05-21-2013, 09:03 PM
Raid leader affects you in solo?

Digital_Aether
05-21-2013, 09:06 PM
I assume that raids are just multi-player dungeons. I think RL only does the group raids. It sounds like you can try running a raid solo, but it probably won't go well.

Verdant
05-21-2013, 09:42 PM
I assume that raids are just multi-player dungeons.
IIRC it was stated that raid is just boss battles with difficulty curves.

iodomy
05-22-2013, 12:21 AM
What they really need is another $250 tier geared towards PvP - 3 PvE focused tiers and only 1 for PvP seems off.

Has there been any sort of official comment on this? Pro Player/Grand King being sold out while there are only ~a dozen backers for the other $250 tiers seems like it should be a pretty clear signal that their current offerings are not lining up with what their potential community actually wants.

Deathfog
05-22-2013, 12:33 AM
Biggest issue with the PvE rewards is that they only make PvE easier, which is more of a downside than an advantage for versus computer games. Look at the new Metro game as an example, you have to pay extra money or be a pre-orderer to get a higher difficulty level. Paying $130 to make the challenges softer or plow through progression with less effort is counter productive.

Significant social rewards or guild level perks would probably sell better, though one of them does give more free packs which is always a good incentive.

MasterPlan
05-22-2013, 12:49 AM
I think we need to see an example of what a raid would be like, and some of the possible rewards. Really we have seen the PVP side of things and just is not enough information on the PVE.

Grissnap
05-22-2013, 12:52 AM
The Arena seems entertaining, but the Hex site definitely needs more info (detailed info) on PvE.

katkillad
05-22-2013, 04:17 AM
Collector tier is the hidden gem, i'm actually glad most people don't realize it.

caffn8d
05-22-2013, 05:04 AM
People dismissing the tier benefits to PvE are assuming it will be easy. It's quite possible that you will need to be very lucky to get past some encounters unless you have the advantage of good gear and/or perks because they are designed to be unfair. Just like an MMO. Then again... maybe you're right. I'd definitely like to see some examples. Hopefully they are toiling away to get at least an example of how a PvE match might go down out for us to see.

Diesbudt
05-22-2013, 05:07 AM
People dismissing the tier benefits to PvE are assuming it will be easy. It's quite possible that you will need to be very lucky to get past some encounters unless you have the advantage of good gear and/or perks because they are designed to be unfair. Just like an MMO. Then again... maybe you're right. I'd definitely like to see some examples. Hopefully they are toiling away to get at least an example of how a PvE match might go down out for us to see.

Well they cannot balance a game around special perks only select players will have, especially down the road when it goes live and non KS-backers start playing.

Raid leader is neat, but hardly worth it. Guild master just quickens how fast you level, which may take the fun out of it for some, and the 30 packs must come from set 1, so it is not a big deal. Dungeon crawler seems to have some decent addition of double pve loot for life on top of 20 rare pieces of gear from the start. Collector, if you like Alt colored cards, and think you will use/trade them for a lot then there is possibilities this one is useful to you. Otherwise it is weak.

Hieronymous
05-22-2013, 05:44 AM
Collector tier is the hidden gem, i'm actually glad most people don't realize it.

Yeah, the two most valuable parts of Grand King are Pro Player and Collector together. Between the two you'll get a nice always-growing collection of cards without spending any more cash, and the extra set of exclusive cards is nothing to sneeze at either. Two spectral lotuses per day and you start being able to hand them out to friends, resell, etc.


Well they cannot balance a game around special perks only select players will have, especially down the road when it goes live and non KS-backers start playing.

Raid leader is neat, but hardly worth it. Guild master just quickens how fast you level, which may take the fun out of it for some, and the 30 packs must come from set 1, so it is not a big deal. Dungeon crawler seems to have some decent addition of double pve loot for life on top of 20 rare pieces of gear from the start. Collector, if you like Alt colored cards, and think you will use/trade them for a lot then there is possibilities this one is useful to you. Otherwise it is weak.

Raid leader, guild master, and dungeon crawler may turn out to be really appealing to people who don't have as much time to play. It all depends on how the MMO side is set up but if it's a typical grindfest, halving the time you have to camp things to get loot rewards is a massive bonus.