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View Full Version : I have some concerns about community management.



Gwaer
05-21-2013, 02:43 PM
People can be complete jerks, looking at some of the responses on these forums, that is still holding true. It's pretty much a necessity to consider that in an online community there are going to be bad apples. I can't say that the TCG community as a whole is worse than say the MOBA types, but the possibility is there.

My concerns are twofold:
Is this game being developed with online play in mind, and how it can bring out the worst in people, are there built in tools for dealing with people that are giving you a hard time for whatever reason/ignore lists that also stop you from ending up in random situations(drafts, dungeons) with those people, etc.

Also, are there incentives in place to reward strangers for working well together, especially in PVE.

Ashenor
05-21-2013, 02:56 PM
Honestly most people on the forums have went out of there way to answer questions and be helpful that i have seen. I have seen very few cases of trolling or flaming.

Gwaer
05-21-2013, 02:58 PM
This is also a very small subset of the people that will be playing the game. (hopefully)

Ashenor
05-21-2013, 03:00 PM
That's why there are guilds, join one get to know some people and you will always have a play group. That way you not always forced upon randoms and luck of the draw with who you play with.

That said i have never had a issue in MTGO outside of some smack talking which did not happen a lot.

Fireblast
05-21-2013, 03:06 PM
That game needs translation, subforums and community managers

~

Joolz
05-21-2013, 03:07 PM
Really? I think the overall vibe on these forums is remarkably positive. 9+ years of the WoW forums and in-game jerks make this place seem like an oasis.

Joolz
05-21-2013, 03:09 PM
That game needs translation, subforums and community managers

~

Yeah, I have no doubt this forum implementation is quickly going to prove to be inadequate, probably before the game even launches :)

Gwaer
05-21-2013, 03:12 PM
I'm not actually concerned with the forums, it's more inside of the game of hex that troubles me. Also, always run with your guild is not a viable solution for everyone. This is still early on in the game implementation. If these sorts of things are built into Hex then there is no trouble at all for anyone playing however they like.

Clawdius
05-21-2013, 03:13 PM
With Steam on the brain from another thread, I've found what they're looking at doing to improve the DoTA2 community an intriguing prospect. They're looking at basically allowing people to give one another karma based on their behavior in game, on the forums, and even potentially bonuses for doing things like writing guides for characters. This certainly has the potential to help encourage people to be nicer to new players and such, DoTA2 is even going to have a coach functionality where an experienced player can observe a new player and give them tips on what to do and when to help them learn the ropes. The idea is that all of these activities will feed back on one another, and help people out of the mire of toxic behavior that MoBAs are so well known for.

Things of this nature could be adapted to other games, even without the Steamworks system, by allowing for players who have remarkably positive feedback from other forum goers and in game opponents to receive some sort of rewards. I could see some potential for some interesting PVE cards or mercenaries as rewards for generally helpful players.

nearlysober
05-21-2013, 03:18 PM
The forums will need some upgrades if this game continues to grow in popularity:
- More subsections
- Better login experience (it always takes me to my WoWTCG profile)
- "Purple Tracker", jump to next CZE post, etc features

With more subsections & more posters will also come the potential for more community managers to patrol for troublemakers and provide posts. Fostering a good "out of game" community is essential.

Yeah, the in-game community will need to be strong too... but plenty of us desk-jockeys will want to keep connected during the workday out of game as well.

OysterPrime
05-21-2013, 03:18 PM
I'm sure that CZE is at least thinking about in-game tools for ignoring players and reporting inappropriate behavior. Those types of tools are commonplace in most online games nowadays.

Gwaer
05-21-2013, 03:28 PM
As Clawdius said on the first page, there have been a lot of advances in this space in League of Legends/Dota and just in online games in general. This is CZE's first foray into the online space as a company, though many individuals were part of online games it's not guaranteed that any of those individuals focus was in that particular field. I just know a few bad eggs can greatly sour a game for new players, and we want to be as welcoming as possible to anyone interested. New players are the lifeblood of any game. This thread was honestly more to grab the attention of the powers that be and hopefully have them think on this for the next several months to see how they could innovate in this very important area in addition to the gameplay.

yovalord
05-21-2013, 03:37 PM
The only place you will likely see trolls is the forums, and even then i havnt seen anything terrible said lol. Trash talking happens in 1vs1 matches but who cares lol? That happens in IRL TCGs too. Its part of the game, disable chat if it bothers you.

Chance
05-21-2013, 03:40 PM
The only place you will likely see trolls is the forums, and even then i havnt seen anything terrible said lol. Trash talking happens in 1vs1 matches but who cares lol? That happens in IRL TCGs too. Its part of the game, disable chat if it bothers you.

Yeah that is what I did in league, I just dragged the chat off the screen and went on a 37 game win streak. You don't have to rely on community or ingame functions to ignore bad apples.

Gwaer
05-21-2013, 03:43 PM
For example, doing random pve raids, some guy just feeling like being a jerk, you only have a limited number of attempts at raids per day, and he just plays resources, and doesn't do anything to assist. There should be something to do in that scenario, be it just ignoring him and not being able to be matched up with them or whatever. I don't know if you have ever been on the internet. People will find a way to grief, that's just how things work here. There should be tools to encourage people not to, and to punish them when they do.

oncewasblind
05-21-2013, 04:59 PM
There's no policing a random experience. When you join a multiplayer queue without vetting the people you're going to be playing with, you never know what you're going to get.

The reason that there's so much toxicity in a community like League of Legends (or other MOBA's) is because the game is designed to pair you with people you can't possibly have a relationship. In most ranked games, you won't know 90-100% of the people you'll be playing with, because you're paired with 3-4 other strangers, and paired against 5.

In this game you'll either be queuing 1v1, or 3vE, and in the PVE content, you always have a choice with whom you'll be playing with. As far as 1v1, there's generally far less trash talk, because there's no one else to make into a scapegoat and blame for every little mistake, as what happens in MOBA's.

Talreth
05-21-2013, 05:02 PM
For example, doing random pve raids, some guy just feeling like being a jerk, you only have a limited number of attempts at raids per day, and he just plays resources, and doesn't do anything to assist.

ez get wrekt nerd

Tyrfang
05-21-2013, 05:03 PM
I dunno, you could blame other drafters for drafting/not drafting a card, but you'd have to be somewhat advanced to even expect a certain player to draft a certain card...

BigDog
05-21-2013, 05:20 PM
My suggestion is to lower your expectations of people's conduct on the interwebz. I saw a person admit they were wrong and then change their mind on a webforum the other day...i was so shocked i did a double take

Gwaer
05-21-2013, 05:32 PM
My expectations of peoples conduct on the internet is already as low as it could possibly be. Which is why I think this stuff should be thought about in development. If you guys feel that there needs to be no policing of people griefing, botting, being detrimental to players in whatever way they can conceive of in the context of this new interesting fusion of gameplay. That's absolutely your call. I just thank goodness you guys aren't responsible for making this game.

Talreth
05-21-2013, 05:34 PM
My expectations of peoples conduct on the internet is already as low as it could possibly be. Which is why I think this stuff should be thought about in development. If you guys feel that there needs to be no policing of people griefing, botting, being detrimental to players in whatever way they can conceive of in the context of this new interesting fusion of gameplay. That's absolutely your call. I just thank goodness you guys aren't responsible for making this game.

I like how you think there won't be any. l0l Or that it's even an option. Like they would release a community game without an ignore list. Really?

Gwaer
05-21-2013, 05:40 PM
I don't expect one way or another, I just don't want it to be overlooked. I just made the thread to get some attention on it. As I mentioned before this is their first foray into the online space. It's definitely one of the less fun aspects of online play. Some people would consider it to not be important. I think that it's very important for new players to have as many tools as possible to be shielded from toxic ones until they are better prepared to deal with it.

Talreth
05-21-2013, 05:46 PM
I think that it's very important for new players to have as many tools as possible to be shielded from toxic ones until they are better prepared to deal with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvjKS_YOyfs

Hibbert
05-21-2013, 05:48 PM
An ignore list is just the start. You need a report system. Reports should be examined by GM's and extreme behavior should result in warnings, suspensions, and possibly even bans for habitual repeat offenders. I'm not talking about someone saying a bad word after losing a match. I'm concerned about things like racist/homophobic slurs, IRL threats or ongoing harassment. If people learn early on that this type of behavior risks their account, it will not be able to take root like it has in other games.

Talreth
05-21-2013, 05:49 PM
An ignore list is just the start. You need a report system. Reports should be examined by GM's and extreme behavior should result in warnings, suspensions, and possibly even bans for habitual repeat offenders. I'm not talking about someone saying a bad word after losing a match. I'm concerned about things like racist/homophobic slurs, IRL threats or ongoing harassment. If people learn early on that this type of behavior risks their account, it will not be able to take root like it has in other games.

I think an option to turn off chat is good enough.

Okay, I guess like a chat filter as well. Obviously ignore list was included I meant additional things.

Socks4615
05-21-2013, 05:50 PM
I assume that Cryptozoic will have an ignore function of some sort, but, just in case, I'd like to make double extra sure it is in the works/on their to-do list for the game. It'd be insane not to have it, and CZE is a good company with people who've worked on MMO's in the past, so yes, it's probably going to be in there. But there's nothing wrong with taking a moment to speak up in favor of it. If nothing else, it reinforces to CZE that it is a desired feature. Not a thing in the world wrong with that.

People have asked about other features that others assume will be in the game. It's not a terrible thing.
+1 for Ignore List and Functionality, because MY experience is that for every helpful person in an MMO environment, there's at least 5 jerks. +1 also for Reporting Function.

The forums so far have been mostly helpful and enthusiastic and it's only increased my desire to play Hex. Let's make sure peoples' energy and excitement aren't diminished once the game launches. :)

Talreth
05-21-2013, 05:52 PM
The forums so far have been mostly helpful and enthusiastic

If mostly is 70% then the other 30% must be people creating threads that have already been made. Because damn there's a lot ofthem.

Jugan
05-21-2013, 05:57 PM
If mostly is 70% then the other 30% must be people creating threads that have already been made. Because damn there's a lot ofthem.

Talk is better than no talk.

Talreth
05-21-2013, 06:00 PM
Talk is better than no talk.

Idts if it's repetitive or stupid.

Gwaer
05-21-2013, 06:10 PM
Every repetitive thread is someone else being too exciting to bother wading through the forums, I'd rather have over enthusiastic people than stagnation. It's an exciting time, things are going to fall through the cracks, people will ask questions that have been answered 100 times before, back out of the thread, and lighten up. You obviously don't have anything better to do than hang out in a thread and attempt flaccid arguments against anything people say, so turn that free time to answering repetitive questions, then at least you can be a constructive part of the community rather than a drain on it.

Talreth
05-21-2013, 07:32 PM
Every repetitive thread is someone else being too lazy to bother clicking search on the forums

fixed

Gwaer
05-21-2013, 08:04 PM
Every repetitive thread is someone else being too exciting to bother wading through the forums, I'd rather have over enthusiastic people than stagnation. It's an exciting time, things are going to fall through the cracks, people will ask questions that have been answered 100 times before, back out of the thread, and lighten up. You obviously don't have anything better to do than hang out in a thread and attempt flaccid arguments against anything people say, so turn that free time to answering repetitive questions, then at least you can be a constructive part of the community rather than a drain on it.

I'll stand by my original sentiment, thanks.

Talreth
05-21-2013, 08:06 PM
You could at least change it to excited

Gwaer
05-21-2013, 08:11 PM
I think you'll live.

Talreth
05-21-2013, 08:13 PM
Yeah, if only there was an ignore function on the forums or something so I just didn't even have to deal with the toxicity.

Gwaer
05-21-2013, 08:14 PM
You are pretty much what this entire post was about, yep.

Talreth
05-21-2013, 08:20 PM
Wow, if that's the worst they have to deal with pretty sure half the community gets nominated for sainthood.

Gwaer
05-21-2013, 08:22 PM
*shrug* Someone that has no interest in my thread who just keeps coming back to be a jerk to everyone that posts in it? Not exactly a saint. What else could you do on a forum? I'm certain if you found a way to be more of a nuisance in the actual game you'd take advantage of that as well.

Pezzle
05-21-2013, 08:28 PM
All that is needed is an ignore function and enough moderation to prevent actual abuse. Otherwise, if you see a thread that has been done to death, do not read it.

Talreth
05-21-2013, 08:28 PM
*shrug* Someone that has no interest in my thread who just keeps coming back to be a jerk to everyone that posts in it? Not exactly a saint. What else could you do on a forum? I'm certain if you found a way to be more of a nuisance in the actual game you'd take advantage of that as well.

I haven't been a jerk to everyone that posted in here. Actually pretty much the only person I could have possibly been a jerk to was you. And I do have interest in this thread, because I don't think Crypto needs to spend as many resources as you people think they do on babying people from the "horrors" of the evil internet troll populace. Ignore list? Good. Chat filter? Fine. Option to turn off chat? Wonderful. A dedicated GM cyber police team to thwart cyber bullying? I'd rather not.

Gwaer
05-21-2013, 08:41 PM
The issue is simply this; They are trying to break in an entirely new IP, in what they are billing as the first of its kind game. New players are going to be the life blood of it. If someone who has no idea what they are doing logs in and the first things they experience are negative from community members, that is going to turn a lot of people off to the game, it is not that resource intensive to implement a report feature with actual repercussions to toxic players so that there is an actual downside. People who are banned and lose all their cards/money will be much less likely to get banned again. Also, a lot of games have had a lot of luck by implementing some sort of carrot as well as a stick to bring community behavior to a more decent place. Especially if it's made clear fairly early on the community is much more likely to adopt a better attitude.

My problem with you isn't really what you've done only in this thread, I looked through your comment history your comments are consistently unpleasant. As I said, you're exactly the problem. Harassing new people looking for help on the forums for a new game is just harming the entire community, and our mutual investment.

Talreth
05-21-2013, 08:55 PM
My entire comment history? Or the first page? Cause I'd say it's maaaybe 60/40 with the 40 being snarky, on the high side. I didn't count. Also from what I've seen 95% of the community is like you anyways, so I doubt there's going to be tons of toxic players anyways. Third, lots of the PvE is single player which is what the new players are gonna be playing. Somebody might grief a raid but it really depends on the party system they use. Seeing as how the multiplayer content in this game is so small (that we know of) it would be easy for people to find 1-2 nice guys and raid. Either way though I'd live with it, never been banned before doubt I will here. Also seeing as how community in this game is based around trading and stuff I feel like there's a higher level of interaction between people than the kind of one and done from dungeon queues in wow or solo queue in league.

We've been talking to each other so long I feel like we're almost friends.