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maniza
05-21-2013, 06:33 PM
hi guys im a gk backer and have to say i love the idea behind this game. We all know there is a huge market for tcgs
but after showing some of my friends some of the kick starter content and trying to convince them to pledge so we can make a guild most of them were not interested in the game.
then i checked the amount of backers and it seems really low in comparison with other projects that had raised that ammount of money.
im wondering if there will be a big enough market for this game to become huge or even survive after some time. i for one see great potential in this game and i think it can become really popular but seeing the things i stated earlier and the fact that tcgs have a steep learning curve lots of mechanics to learn and games can take close to an hour i wonder if maybe im just over exited for the game that i always dreamed of. maybe my dream isen't most peoples dream.
or do you ppl think that this could be huge?

Qorsair
05-21-2013, 06:36 PM
do you ppl think that this could be huge?

Yes.

BlindMan
05-21-2013, 06:36 PM
I think that among the people who would be into the idea of a digital TCG, this game hits all the right notes. Add in the fact that you can make an account and play PvE for free, and people will definitely try it out. I would love to see the number of backers go up as well, but I think there is a dedicated core here, and big potential to capture a lot more people when the game is released.

Gwaer
05-21-2013, 06:38 PM
The answer is obviously yes, we think it could be huge, but most of us have donated quite a lot of money, and have psychological impetus to believe in that decision. We're exactly who you shouldn't be asking this question.

Mike411
05-21-2013, 06:39 PM
It's up to us (the community) to show people what an awesome game it is :)

Chance
05-21-2013, 06:40 PM
The curve isn't nearly as steep as Sc2 and is not mechanically challenging at all. It has a PvE side that will continue to be polished and constantly attract attention. Coupled with the ever increasing Tablet market I think the chance for success is huge with the right marketing and timing this game could blow up. The single biggest challenge is trying to convince friends to play a genre when the working product isn't even out yet. It's hard to describe ANY game let alone one with foreign mechanics and no solid videos.

I don't think your fears are unfounded just not well thought out.

Ebynfel
05-21-2013, 06:41 PM
I don't necessarily think that the game is not marketable, or that it wont be a success. Honestly where I think people are going to shirk is from the Kickstarter itself. It's hard to toss a chunk of money at something you know very little about, but it is worth it in the long run if it takes off. Honestly, I think and hope Hex will.

When it comes to being disinteresting, I am not sure it's given it's full due. We have honestly seen very little, just the tip of the iceberg, of what this game will be. If someone is interested i nany of the hardcore TCGs, or the social aspects of an MMO, they are here. Those are the aspects most important to both the average player, and this game in particular. It has been said many times that the blend here is where Crypto will look to make this game so successful.

Also, you have to figure that a lot of strange things are being done with lore. Classic races are being altered in a new and unusual way. This isn't a bad thing, but it's new and often scary. I think in Hex, the races and environs look to be pretty awesome, but many may not think so with the limited information available at present. Give it time, let the E-Sports and drafting and PVE livestreams show everyone what the game is all about, how it works, and how it is different, if not better, than what they are playing now. This is still very early. In the end, numbers will grow, because this is, just simply, a great company putting the game together, along with a very solid and well thought out process behind it.

djlowballer
05-21-2013, 06:42 PM
I think the game will be at least somewhat stable at least for set 2. The farther future I can't comment on but I see it as an uphill battle since Hex is both a new IP and a TCG.

d00dz
05-21-2013, 06:42 PM
If you look at the average pledge per backer, its about $163 now which is a lot more than other games. It lends credence to the idea that most of the backers are TCG players who are used to shelling out lots of money for TCGs.

In terms of broad market appeal, it'll resonate primarily with players with a strong TCG background otherwise people will balk at the amount they need to shell out. Its part of the challenge to attract these new players without any TCG experience so it will have to be a continuous process of updates and developments. Most likely these players will be initially drawn to the PVE part where they don't need to spend money. From there, they can start dabbling in PVP until they become hooked like the rest of us :)

demonanil
05-21-2013, 06:46 PM
I am not as hardcore as alot of the other backers and players on this forum. My honest opinion is that, yes this game will survive and the reason it will is because of those hardcore backers. They will buy packs and contribute to the game down the line. I see a bit of WOW players who like TCG's coming to play. As well as MTG players coming to see whats up with this game and then staying and playing. As for casual players there will be alot of them coming to try the game,depending on how great the PVE is. Some may leave from time to time. Some will play on and off. Some will only come back for special events if there are any.

If ever this game were to get into some kind of financial trouble. I can see players standing up and doing another kickstarter to save this game. This is coming from someone that's not a hardcore TCG player.

OysterPrime
05-21-2013, 06:53 PM
I think something that will help the game is all of the advantages that the digital format has over physical. We will be able to amass big collections of cards and construct decks, but won't have to sift through big boxes/binders of actual cards. I think the immediacy and convenience of online tournaments will also help. Tournaments will be very easy to enter and people with any work/school schedule will be able to enter something that works for them.

My group of friends wants to desperately play a card game, but with conflicting schedules, it is very hard to coordinate game nights. We also live in an area where there aren't a whole lot of hobby stores, thus there really aren't many tournaments(even for Magic.) HEX fits the bill perfectly for us, and I'm sure there are a lot of people in the same position that it will appeal to.

maniza
05-21-2013, 06:54 PM
what i found strange is most of my friends have a tcg background. i see my gk pledge as an investment so maybe when the game comes out i can get some of them to play with me. not much fun if i cant get my group of tcg gamers hooked.

Mike411
05-21-2013, 07:00 PM
Also considering the kickstarter goal was 300,000 - it seems like we're smashing expectations so far... give it time to see what happens. Like wait until set 4 is announced to see where the game is at. I'm sure the game will have legs for at least 3 full sets given how the kickstarter took off.

Shrennan
05-21-2013, 07:17 PM
To make a comparison: MOBA's mass appeal success started out as a niche mod to a popular game that branched into its own with titles like League of Legends and DotA 2. However, the original DotA had a hardcore community that probably turned a lot of people away until LoL pounced on the opportunity of accessibility for that genre of game. In the same way, I think Hex will capitalize on the digital TCG space in a way that hasn't been done before which will bring that same kind of accessibility and with it the mass market appeal. This game will be huge.

Travis
05-21-2013, 07:24 PM
Pros- Primacy in gaming in important. While there have been other digital tcg's out there none have brought this much to the table. It feels new and fresh and that's good. Most games that are the start of a genre stick whether they are the best of that type or not. D&D, Warhammer, Magic, Dominion. Each game was really the first of it's type and is still strong today. Hex will be the same.

Accessibility - You will be able to play the game from anywhere, literally. You can PVE during your usual bathroo...Angry Birds time.

Innovation- Unending design space due to use of digital format.

Cost- Half the price of the leading TCG currently in the market.

Name Recognition - Crypto has been around a bit now. They have had decent success in both TCG's as well as board games. Not much bad to say about them other then their recent move towards exclusivity of distribution with their board game products.

Brain Trust/Flair - Cory Jones is a madman and a genius as well as very likable and a great face for the company. The rest of the team is very solid as well. Industry wise they have some real good names working on this project.

Commitment to always improve - Cory came from Blizzard. They have reinvented WOW over and over again and it still does well.

Cons- No physical presence in game stores - They will not have a booster box next to MTG, YGO, Cardfight Vanguard, Pokemon and everything else. Game Stores are a hub for TCG players. How will they market this game to grow a base without being in the stores. They won't have game store owners that don't have LAN centers as liaisons. LAN centers are on the downswing not on the upswing.

New IP - Zero IP recognition outside of their own publicity. They don't have anything pop culture related (not counting Penny Arcade) to tell people about the game. They will need to do major pub to spread the word of their existence.

Social Game? - Thus far the PVE has been stated to be 3 players at most. While understand how tough it is to get friends together for a raid, it's even worse if one guy is odd man out. People will not be coming together to spend time with each other, they will be on Skype at best.

As far as Mass Appeal goes maybe at some point they will have it. I honestly don't think they are looking for mass appeal. It needs to be easy enough for anyone interested to learn and I think at this point it is. Any gamer would play through a demo of this game and know how to play fairly easily.
What they are doing is taking two very popular genres in Geek Culture and smashing them together in an attempt to capture mass appeal from that base, which is of significant size at this point. The pledged KS money speaks to that. How well it does will depend on their marketing, their delivery, our word of mouth, the quality of the interface and the integrity they carry themselves with.

I backed them for $750. A grand King and a Pro Player. As a betting man, I want to get in as the best value because if they don't crash the boat this could be around for a long time. My investment will be paid off monetarily very quickly I assume and that doesn't touch the hours I will spend entertaining myself. Often times as gamers we forget about that part. It's not the money that you get back it's the adventure you get to take.

Thanks Cryptozoic. September can't come soon enough.

maniza
05-21-2013, 07:36 PM
thanks great post it is a gamble for me to but as an experienced gamer and tcg player i have a gut felling that this will hit it of. i hope im right.

Qorsair
05-21-2013, 07:38 PM
Cons- No physical presents in game stores - They will not have a booster box next to MTG, YGO, Cardfight Vanguard, Pokemon and everything else. Game Stores are a hub for TCG players. How will they market this game to grow a base without being in the stores. They won't have game store owners that don't have LAN centers as liaisons. LAN centers are on the downswing not on the upswing.


No reason they won't have a physical presence, the same way iTunes has a presence in grocery stores. Cryptozoic already has relationships with card shops for their other games. Why not offer Booster Cards in the shop? It could be a $10 Card that gives you 5 booster packs when you put the code in. Keeps the shops happy and promotes the game.

Shrennan
05-21-2013, 07:45 PM
No reason they won't have a physical presence, the same way iTunes has a presence in grocery stores. Cryptozoic already has relationships with card shops for their other games. Why not offer Booster Cards in the shop? It could be a $10 Card that gives you 5 booster packs when you put the code in. Keeps the shops happy and promotes the game.

Also, if I were Crypto, I would also see about the possibility of stores owning singles and whatnot for sale. Get card shops involved and maybe even offer a way for (digital) tournaments at a physical location with the people in the store.

Genosaurer
05-21-2013, 07:48 PM
I've never played TCG's like magic the gathering with physical cards. There isn't a game shop near me either (if I guess, maybe an hour away at best but I can't name one off top of my head). I did play yugioh for gameboy advance and I dabbled with some other online TCG recently but once I realized it took 20 wins for 1 card or pay real money I quickly quit playing as I have more fun things to do and saving my money for hex. The difference with hex is I will be able to play with people from the very beginning and I won't have to play catch up. I pledged pro player so I will start strong and have a chance to keep up with the game as it changes.

By the time set 2 comes out, I will almost be graduated from college so I should be able to always keep up if this game ends up being a huge hit and lasting for years. Meanwhile, I'm still getting free drafts / 45 cards a week for life. To me, this game sounds like the next big thing and I'm glad I'll be a part of it from the very beginning.

Ebynfel
05-21-2013, 07:48 PM
Also, if I were Crypto, I would also see about the possibility of stores owning singles and whatnot for sale. Get card shops involved and maybe even offer a way for (digital) tournaments at a physical location with the people in the store.

This would be sweet, but hard to pull off until tablet time. People lugging their PCs to a game shop to play Hex could prove difficult, though I could definitely see tablet play at the card shop very viable. Or even hosted events for the shop, even if played from home could be beneficial, with the shop's website/twitch broadcasting the tourney or somesuch. Could be cool.

Genosaurer
05-21-2013, 07:50 PM
Also, if I were Crypto, I would also see about the possibility of stores owning singles and whatnot for sale. Get card shops involved and maybe even offer a way for (digital) tournaments at a physical location with the people in the store.

Gift cards for boosters is an excellent idea. Make sure they are by the other trading cards AND by regular gift cards. If I told someone I wanted a hex giftcard, they will look where the regular gift cards like itunes,Books-a-million, etc are and walk away if its not there. At the same time, a TCG player is going to look by the trading cards most likely.

Malicus
05-21-2013, 07:51 PM
I completely understand almost all of the sentiments in this thread. When I first read about this game I was so excited by the prospect and jumped on my guilds mumble to share it with others, one of the people online saw the same possibility as me and I felt the shared enthusiasm but others just weren't into tcg so didn't - when I tried to enlist a friend whose tastes generally run similar to mine whom I have played online with for years he saw the worst aspects of tcg and mmo where I saw the best.

Basically it won't be for everyone but it will be for many and if those coming in are as passionate about it as many of the backers so far all the game has to do is deliver on our expectations and it will be successful

Shrennan
05-21-2013, 07:51 PM
This would be sweet, but hard to pull off until tablet time. People lugging their PCs to a game shop to play Hex could prove difficult, though I could definitely see tablet play at the card shop very viable. Or even hosted events for the shop, even if played from home could be beneficial, with the shop's website/twitch broadcasting the tourney or somesuch. Could be cool.

I was thinking tablets that the store might own. They would be the stations for the player. It would be a huge investment though so this probably won't happen but it would be really sweet if physical card shops got involved.

Ebynfel
05-21-2013, 07:55 PM
I was thinking tablets that the store might own. They would be the stations for the player. It would be a huge investment though so this probably won't happen but it would be really sweet if physical card shops got involved.

Involvement of local game stores would, in all likelihood, make a whole lot of sales in my opinion. If a way can be found to incorporate the game into them in a realistic and economical fashion, it'll do wonders.

IndigoShade
05-21-2013, 08:00 PM
Lol I can just imagine the gift card looking like a playable HEX card with an effect like "(Exhaust this card symbol): This $5 gift card irreversibly transforms into 5 platinum usable in HEX, the online TCG/MMO by Cryptozoic entertainment."

Tinuvas
05-21-2013, 08:09 PM
As someone who gets a little (over)excited when new games I like come out, the idea that my friends are 'meh' at best comes fairly regularly. It's when I drop a youtube video with me playing or when I tell them about last night's raid/tourney/whatever that they begin to show interest. Crypto is in this for the long haul, it'll build up steam slowly, but will be big. It's got all the tools for it, with the right marketing etc. It'll go big.

Ebynfel
05-21-2013, 08:13 PM
Lol I can just imagine the gift card looking like a playable HEX card with an effect like "(Exhaust this card symbol): This $5 gift card irreversibly transforms into 5 platinum usable in HEX, the online TCG/MMO by Cryptozoic entertainment."
Give them the Million Dollar sleeves as a bonus :)

maniza
05-21-2013, 08:14 PM
No reason they won't have a physical presence, the same way iTunes has a presence in grocery stores. Cryptozoic already has relationships with card shops for their other games. Why not offer Booster Cards in the shop? It could be a $10 Card that gives you 5 booster packs when you put the code in. Keeps the shops happy and promotes the game.

great idea they shud make this happen. any idea how much that would cost, also i think it shud be tied to the tablet app

Shrennan
05-21-2013, 08:19 PM
Involvement of local game stores would, in all likelihood, make a whole lot of sales in my opinion. If a way can be found to incorporate the game into them in a realistic and economical fashion, it'll do wonders.

Oh, I have no doubt it would. It would bring in advertising and so many other things that won't necessarily cost much for Crypto in the long run. The really expensive part would be early on - local stores shouldn't be expected to invest in things like tablets and whatnot to make digital tournaments happen at a physical store so Crypto would probably have to be part of that investment for, first, the major local stores, and then from there on out.

Ebynfel
05-21-2013, 08:19 PM
Doesnt need to be tied to the tablet app, but it couldn't hurt being accessible via the tablet app. I just think if it's linked to the tablet app specifically, that gift cards to pc users will lose out on some sales of the cards. Make then universal but accessible.

Ebynfel
05-21-2013, 08:22 PM
Oh, I have no doubt it would. It would bring in advertising and so many other things that won't necessarily cost much for Crypto in the long run. The really expensive part would be early on - local stores shouldn't be expected to invest in things like tablets and whatnot to make digital tournaments happen at a physical store so Crypto would probably have to be part of that investment for, first, the major local stores, and then from there on out.

I'm sure if they think tanked it, or even if we did here on the forums, we could come up with some really cool local game store promotions. Such as sign up as a Hex player with a local game store of choice(Limited by e-mail or something), and get some bonus or something. There's a bunch of stuff I am sure Crypto could do to get Hex into the stores somehow, especially considering my local game store sells pretty much anything Crypto offers at any given time.

DarkSeverance
05-21-2013, 08:24 PM
People lugging their PCs to a game shop to play Hex could prove difficult, though I could definitely see tablet play at the card shop very viable.I don't expect HEX to be too graphic or resource intensive, however you don't want to use PC's. You use Thin Clients at store and host it through them. Then you can run the it as well as a few other games with a small footprint.

Ebynfel
05-21-2013, 08:25 PM
Or, like Friday Night Magic. Play through a store sponsored tournament and get an exclusive Hex promo card as a player reward, or buy a booster pack(Say, 5 packs for 9.99) and get the promo card. limit X per month, promo changes per month. There is tons of potential to get us to our local game store. And many of those things could entice new players when they see the player rewards(Say, a draft tourney pack on store shelves with a promo when you enter the invite only tournament from shop x)

Shrennan
05-21-2013, 08:31 PM
I'm sure if they think tanked it, or even if we did here on the forums, we could come up with some really cool local game store promotions. Such as sign up as a Hex player with a local game store of choice(Limited by e-mail or something), and get some bonus or something. There's a bunch of stuff I am sure Crypto could do to get Hex into the stores somehow, especially considering my local game store sells pretty much anything Crypto offers at any given time.


Or, like Friday Night Magic. Play through a store sponsored tournament and get an exclusive Hex promo card as a player reward, or buy a booster pack(Say, 5 packs for 9.99) and get the promo card. limit X per month, promo changes per month. There is tons of potential to get us to our local game store. And many of those things could entice new players when they see the player rewards(Say, a draft tourney pack on store shelves with a promo when you enter the invite only tournament from shop x)

That would be a very good idea and that's a good suggestion already - local stores could get exclusive access to certain promos for tournament events held at a physical store. There should be plenty of ideas that could integrate well with physical card shops. I just think those card shops could be important in welcoming this new IP, rather than shunning it because it is a non-physical card game that the shop cannot really sell or use (and thus any competition to a physical card game would be seen as a harmful thing for that card shop).

And with that, I am officially a member (not a junior anymore)!

maniza
05-21-2013, 08:35 PM
Lots of great ideas i hope it happens

Ebynfel
05-21-2013, 08:35 PM
I never noticed that I became a member. It happened so fast...

Shrennan
05-21-2013, 08:39 PM
I never noticed that I became a member. It happened so fast...

I think it happens at 30 posts. I'm guessing Senior might be at 60.

Anyway, I really think this game is going to be absolutely huge but I think Crypto should take advantage of everything that TCGs use - digital and physical (when it's smart). I do not think the digital cards should ever have physical card counterparts obviously. Should Crypto give promo cards to physical card stores for events then those codes could be fancy (or maybe even the one time you do get a physical Hex card - the back of it would have the code, while the front of it would be what the card actually was).

MugenMusou
05-21-2013, 08:56 PM
Making PvE for Free is a great approach as it sounds like alone can be a full blown TCG. But now a days for TCG to catch a big audience, mobile platform may be a key. I know Magic Online does not support one, but Magic has already huge physical which they can drawn into PC.

If they can announce mobile platform support, I think we will see huge increase in the actual number of backers.

Travis
05-21-2013, 08:57 PM
If you have an account on Hex you can purchase product from the site. Why would you want to go to a store and buy the product from them when it's easier to buy it direct? I understand they can make promo's that you only get in packs from stores. It would be difficult for them to make them good enough to drive sales into a store. The people that couldn't get to stores would hate that they didn't have access to the cards and it would be against their overall model.

Secondly, with a direct purchase, Crypto makes all the money. If it was sold at a store would Crypto would make less due to having to charge the store less then retail to sell the product. Currently the game is not set up really well for a traditional game store setting.

It will be interesting to see what, if anything they do for physical stores. I am hopeful they come up with something.

Karnegal
05-21-2013, 09:02 PM
Duels of the Planeswalkers was a huge success on Xbox and Ps3 (I don't know as much about the steam sale numbers), and it is a pretty lightly-featured TCG. If people can play PvE for free and get hooked that way, there is a significant audience for the game.

Tyrfang
05-21-2013, 09:06 PM
Most digital only games have the ability to purchase digital currency in-store. They lose a bit of money but it's all digital product in the end, so..

Also, I wonder if they will publish for XBLA, PSVita, PS3, and/or WiiU?

Mike411
05-21-2013, 09:09 PM
Why would you want to go to a store and buy the product from them when it's easier to buy it direct?

Prepaid game cards are a good idea because it advertises the game, and some new people join the game. Also some people want to pay in cash, with physical game stores they now have that option.


Lol I can just imagine the gift card looking like a playable HEX card with an effect like "(Exhaust this card symbol): This $5 gift card irreversibly transforms into 5 platinum usable in HEX, the online TCG/MMO by Cryptozoic entertainment."

This is such a cool idea! I hope CZE is reading.

Ebynfel
05-21-2013, 09:09 PM
If you have an account on Hex you can purchase product from the site. Why would you want to go to a store and buy the product from them when it's easier to buy it direct? I understand they can make promo's that you only get in packs from stores. It would be difficult for them to make them good enough to drive sales into a store. The people that couldn't get to stores would hate that they didn't have access to the cards and it would be against their overall model.

Secondly, with a direct purchase, Crypto makes all the money. If it was sold at a store would Crypto would make less due to having to charge the store less then retail to sell the product. Currently the game is not set up really well for a traditional game store setting.

It will be interesting to see what, if anything they do for physical stores. I am hopeful they come up with something.

It isn't just Hex that Crypto sells though, and in those game stores where the codes may be found, are other games produced by Crypto, such as the DC Deckbuilding game, walking dead, etc. Also, getting online Hex players into stores may not be the only added effect of promoting Hex in stores and physical outlets, but say at my store M:tG is really big. Those guys love their foilds and promos, and if they were to give Hex a serious chance may come in and play. There are mroe reasons to go into the stores in some form or another with Hex than just to get us Hex players int ostores to buy codes.

Next, in response to the promos. In past TCGs, promos have always been made available to limited audiences or as rewards for certain behavior, and have usually been a hit. I personally don't see an issue with it necessarily, but it may not need to be promos that go on in the stores. Adding an avenue to expose Hex to more players is usually a good investment.

caffn8d
05-21-2013, 09:20 PM
I'm almost certain that a tablet version of HEX will follow upon release. They've said multiple times that they are building it on a platform that supports mobile. Once that happens I'll be showing it off to anyone who has a passing interest. :)

Pezzle
05-21-2013, 09:22 PM
Unfortunately, you are posting in an echo chamber. The people here are already enamored with the concepts presented in hex. The tiers for backers are not structured to entice those who may have doubts and precious little is available on what would quickly become the dominant form of play (pve). Casuals might pick up a $20 tier or just wait until it is released. Not that you should trust gaming 'press' for opinions. What would really help sell this is more video and commentary.

Kalius
05-21-2013, 11:22 PM
If you have an account on Hex you can purchase product from the site. Why would you want to go to a store and buy the product from them when it's easier to buy it direct? I understand they can make promo's that you only get in packs from stores. It would be difficult for them to make them good enough to drive sales into a store. The people that couldn't get to stores would hate that they didn't have access to the cards and it would be against their overall model.

Secondly, with a direct purchase, Crypto makes all the money. If it was sold at a store would Crypto would make less due to having to charge the store less then retail to sell the product. Currently the game is not set up really well for a traditional game store setting.

It will be interesting to see what, if anything they do for physical stores. I am hopeful they come up with something.


see: League of Legends.

Not everyone has a way to make digital purchases, others do not trust doing so, and then there's the people who just like the art on the pre-paid cards. Also- marketing.

Deathfog
05-22-2013, 12:06 AM
This game appears to be good enough to drain the life out of MTG finally. Whereas MTG is going out of their way to make mediocre digital products, Crypto is embracing it completely. It has a potential user base of not just the large but not tremendous current player base of MTG but the ungodly titanic number of people who used to play it over the last nearly 20 years.

If they make a solid game without serious logical bugs in both the cards and the software and support it well, the population should snowball so long as WotC doesn't change their digital strategy to fight back.

nicosharp
05-22-2013, 12:21 AM
There are a lot of if's
- Will a lot of old MTG (and MTGO) players convert?
- Will the ground up design allow the game to go mobile and cross-platform?
- Will the blizzard card game generate more hype for PC TCG games?
- Is it balanced and enjoyable enough to capture both competitive and PVE players?
- Is the timing right?

My personal opinion at first glance is yes to all of the above.

I enjoyed the WOWTCG Cryptozoic created, but the biggest disadvantage was getting to a physical place to play it, and stomaching the environment and social awkwardness often associated with that. This concept eliminates both of those barriers to entry / accessibility. I was a very early adopter of League of Legends, and I hope my gut reaction to this is just as validated. Just sad I didn't act in time to get the Pro Player Pledge tier :*(

ForgedSol
05-22-2013, 12:28 AM
That's really the big question right there. If Wizards has no grounds for lawsuits or anything, can they throw money at a serious MTGO reboot? If they can finally get a UI system no par with Hex, a trading system that is actually managable, and integrate things they're doing right with Duels of the Planeswalkers, and what if they take ideas from Hex and create their own MMO side of things? How much will that competition affect the Hex player base? How much will Magic's extremely well established Organized Play system allow them to suck back players from Hex if they can get MTGO where it should have been years ago? On the flip side, how much will Hex's ability to be digital only allow them to keep an important edge?

I am backing both SolForge and Hex because they are wildly different games, but I'm only backing Hex because MTGO is so terrible, despite how much I love the paper game of Magic. If Magic Online was actually good, I wouldn't have given Hex a second's thought because the two games are so similar.

GhundiPI
05-22-2013, 12:42 AM
If Hex is good, people will flock to it regardless. As mentioned, there is a huge pool of people who have been interested in the past in Magic, and will see a lot of appeal in Hex. But it takes a bit of time. Hex hasn't really had any huge exposure yet (which makes the succes of this Kickstarter a story on its own) and there are only two gameplay videos so far. Give it some time, a lot more videos (especially of the PvE experience) and it should take of from there.

nicosharp
05-22-2013, 12:44 AM
That's really the big question right there. If Wizards has no grounds for lawsuits or anything, can they throw money at a serious MTGO reboot? If they can finally get a UI system no par with Hex, a trading system that is actually managable, and integrate things they're doing right with Duels of the Planeswalkers, and what if they take ideas from Hex and create their own MMO side of things? How much will that competition affect the Hex player base? How much will Magic's extremely well established Organized Play system allow them to suck back players from Hex if they can get MTGO where it should have been years ago? On the flip side, how much will Hex's ability to be digital only allow them to keep an important edge?

I am backing both SolForge and Hex because they are wildly different games, but I'm only backing Hex because MTGO is so terrible, despite how much I love the paper game of Magic. If Magic Online was actually good, I wouldn't have given Hex a second's thought because the two games are so similar.
I feel you on MTGO.. I've been playing it too... to feed an urge to play a competitive TCG, but hate how archaic it is.

Part of the draw to MTG is that the game is something I started playing as a teenager and conceptually is easy to understand mechanically. MTG's approach to PC gaming has been a lame dumb-downed version of magic for the brain-dead casuals in Duel of the Plainswalkers (the John Madden of TCG games), and an expensive gambling platform in MTGO with no monetary value outside of full-sets and qualification points into real cash tournaments. The biggest staling factor of MTGO, besides the poor interface and dated graphics, is the fact that you need to find a way to get high value cards both online and physically to play at the competitive level, and their is no price breaks.

I can see similar issues with any game that allows value trading, to be controlled by the 1% of hardcore professional players that set up auctions as a form of income. At least the market will be contained online.

I hope HEX's gameplay is stimulating, yet simplistic enough to capture an audience as broad as MTG's.

maniza
05-22-2013, 07:04 AM
i think wizards made an concient decition to focus on the real card game and let the online thing be an afterthought. and i think crypto on the other hand saw the oportunity to make the exact oposite. the way things are if wizards sees that hex is realy succesfull and decides to make something along those lines by that time hex will be a well established game with a big enough fan base to suport itself. but in all honesty i dont think they will do it because their focus is elsewhere. i think hex will be the mtg of digital tcgs

4acrossisemu
05-22-2013, 07:16 AM
I'd say this is the most interesting online game since LOL. They will crawl back to you for lotus' :D But it needs to be properly marketed to the gaming market, not just tcgs. It's the wow crowds that will jump at it i think, if the pvp scene is good magic crowd will follow as MTGO sucks.

Karnegal
05-22-2013, 07:25 AM
I don't think it's a matter of getting people to quit Magic for Hex. I'm certainly not dumping my MtG collection any time soon. If Hex can work at a price point that isn't as high as MtG they can carve out a spot for themselves.

Hieronymous
05-22-2013, 07:34 AM
Mass appeal is an interesting question. I think it's going to turn on the appeal of the PvE / free-to-play game to casual players. If lots of people try the free game and like it, sure. If not, then yeah, it'll be just us crazies willing to drop huge amounts of cash on virtual "cards."


i think wizards made an concient decition to focus on the real card game and let the online thing be an afterthought. and i think crypto on the other hand saw the oportunity to make the exact oposite. the way things are if wizards sees that hex is realy succesfull and decides to make something along those lines by that time hex will be a well established game with a big enough fan base to suport itself. but in all honesty i dont think they will do it because their focus is elsewhere. i think hex will be the mtg of digital tcgs

Which is (perhaps not coincidentally) the same mistake that the Warhammer people made with Blizzard. "We don't want to license a video game because then people won't buy figurines!"

EntropyBall
05-22-2013, 07:53 AM
Pros- Primacy in gaming in important. While there have been other digital tcg's out there none have brought this much to the table. It feels new and fresh and that's good. Most games that are the start of a genre stick whether they are the best of that type or not. D&D, Warhammer, Magic, Dominion. Each game was really the first of it's type and is still strong today. Hex will be the same.

I hate to crash this love-fest, but I don't think Hex is as much of an innovation as the 4 games you listed. Its rules (as far as we've seen) are extremely similar to MTG, and the concept of a F2P online card game has obviously been done many times. There are even some with an RPG/leveling/gearing component. The F2P aspect will help bring people in, but honestly there are a ton of F2P card games already available, several more in the works, and when they are all free, the low entry cost of Hex is not going to be that much of a draw.

ForgedSol
05-22-2013, 08:25 AM
I don't think it's a matter of getting people to quit Magic for Hex. I'm certainly not dumping my MtG collection any time soon. If Hex can work at a price point that isn't as high as MtG they can carve out a spot for themselves.

Between the SolForge and Hex, I actually am. (Well... I've been saying for years that I should let go of my Vintage cards, but I haven't done that yet. I think I can this time, and finally move up a level and keep on saying I should get rid of my Legacy cards and only keep my Modern stuff.) I've literally gone to store to play physical magic twice in my life, and I've been playing since Revised. The cards just sit there doing nothing for years at a time, taking up space.

But I don't think people will necessarily quit Magic for Hex. But rather, people who have already quit Magic, and those who have tried MTGO and hated it, will be easily tempted by Hex because of being first to a better UI, as well as the cheaper price. Not all of them of course, but it seems like plenty here have been attracted to this game because of it's Magic-ness. And more importantly, both games will be competing for brand new players. Magic does at least have the very nice looking Duels of the Planeswalkers which they iterate every year and offer for free on iOS, and have available on the Xbox and Playstation on top of PC, so that's a big head start they have there in the digital space.

FireSummoner
05-22-2013, 09:35 AM
I have been on the fence for a bit about this game because of how close the base system seems to copy Magic. I just don't want to jump on something that is going to face legal issues later. Now I don't know how common it is in the TCG world, but when dealing with Deck Building Games it has been common to copy the basic mechanics because they work and are clean. Looking right now at Dominion, Ascension, and Legendary: A Marvel Deck Building Game, the fundamental steps in the game seem to be copied from the previous. Some make a lot larger leaps than others but I still think there is room for all of them and this is a very small example of what is out there. I guess I am wondering if this is a valid concern.

maniza
05-22-2013, 09:45 AM
i think that if they have been working at this game for 2 years. they work whit other game licences. they have a legal team and most likely are not infringing any of the wizards patents. i like the fact that the core is realy similar to magic cause that is a solid game realy solid. from there i think that inspire is realy cool mechanic, dont remember that from magic. they are also doing alot of new things that sound great on paper atleast.

ShaolinRaven
05-22-2013, 09:46 AM
I think Hex will do just fine, especially if the initial KickStarter response is a good indicator of interest. The game isn't even out and the the first responses to it have been great and once it is released since its free to play you will have a lot more people coming in just to try it out. Not everyone will stay, but with the popularity of TCGs over all, I'm sure we'll have a solid stable player base and a decent influx of new players on a regular basis.

It will also help to keep players if we push for and continue to be a supportive and helpful community.

Deathfog
05-22-2013, 09:51 AM
Just a matter of converting ex-magic players which are countless. Those who are currently heavily invested might be less likely to jump.

maniza
05-22-2013, 10:02 AM
i think you could play this and magic i you wanted to be casual about it. on a more profecional level thou magic is the way to go for now. who knows what the future holds. we could be sitting on a new starcraft of sorts. ppl playing magic are most likely heavily invested and would take this as a side dish if you will but most of them will not leave their game for now.

FireSummoner
05-22-2013, 10:05 AM
I do think they have some very awesome ideas. Socket-able gems, equipment and champions are great additions, but 20 life, 5 major colors, how artifacts work and even a lot of the abilities seem exactly the same. It might be limits of it being a card game and I haven't played a lot of TCGs to know if these are just very common concepts. Right now I think the pve portion is what will distinguish it from Magic, but that isn't where they are looking to make money.

maniza
05-22-2013, 10:10 AM
I hate to crash this love-fest, but I don't think Hex is as much of an innovation as the 4 games you listed. Its rules (as far as we've seen) are extremely similar to MTG, and the concept of a F2P online card game has obviously been done many times. There are even some with an RPG/leveling/gearing component. The F2P aspect will help bring people in, but honestly there are a ton of F2P card games already available, several more in the works, and when they are all free, the low entry cost of Hex is not going to be that much of a draw.

well take wow as an example, it wasent that original. it followed the core from other mmos but it aded its own flavor it was well balanced and it was well timed it became huge. i think this has potential to be huge for an online tcg because of the same reasons its not the first but it has the timing i think, also seems fairly balanced and well designed and polished.

drachenfells
05-22-2013, 10:37 AM
A lot of my friends are not huge into card games but have played Magic in the past. When i show them Hex they are intrested, but not enough to pledge. But i do think that when the game is out and they have a chance to play if for free, they will get into it in a big way.

gilby123
05-22-2013, 11:29 AM
well take wow as an example, it wasent that original. it followed the core from other mmos but it aded its own flavor it was well balanced and it was well timed it became huge. i think this has potential to be huge for an online tcg because of the same reasons its not the first but it has the timing i think, also seems fairly balanced and well designed and polished.

Exactly. WoW took the best of many other games and combined them with a very good license. I See Hex as doing the same, but mores (and more risky). They're taking the best of CCG mechanics, throwing in some interesting digital twists, then taking quality MMO elements and working those into the mix as well. I think the two largest risks is their ability to blend what, on the surface, appear to be two very different games and creating quality lore (which I think will be a big factor for PvE players) in a new IP.

As far as marketability, I think they have an excellent chance because they can pick up a lot of casual players that will try it out for the free PvE and, I think the hook for CZE is then converting those players to PvP players. But yeah, to echo others, I know plenty of people that are VERY hesitant to use KS (or will only for >$50 amounts) because the risk vs reward for them isn't high enough and they would rather wait until release, when they KNOW the product is out there before they'll try it. For this project, we're all the Early Adopters and we're the ones they need to help establish the player base when they stand the game up and release it. We're also taking the risk that it might fail, but are getting rewarded well for taking that risk.

Do I think this will be the next WoW or MtG? I really don't know, but it could be. Ultimately, it relies on CZE making a quality product and us helping to promote what we're all seeing as a really great game.

GhundiPI
05-22-2013, 12:27 PM
As far as marketability, I think they have an excellent chance because they can pick up a lot of casual players that will try it out for the free PvE and, I think the hook for CZE is then converting those players to PvP players.

Seeing as how F2P MMOs are going at the moment, I don't think CZE would really need to convert PvE players to PvP. If the PvE is good enough and set up correctly, players will want to spend gold on the content as they do with most F2P MMOs. Gold that can be bought with platinum of course. With an amount of players having an interest in PvE, that in itself could be enough as an income for CZE.

But I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out the other way round, PvP players converting (partially) to PvE. It is, after all, easier for a PvP player to get into PvE since they will already have a lot of cards which can be used in PvE anyway. And it would be the perfect distraction in between or after PvP matches, or just on a day off.

ForgedSol
05-22-2013, 12:31 PM
I'm actually clueless about what F2P MMOs are out there, unless you count Star Wars the Old Republic, which I've at least heard of. What other ones are out there so I can read up on them?

Daer
05-22-2013, 12:32 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_free_massively_multiplayer_online_games#Fr ee_play_with_micro-transactions

Boojum
05-22-2013, 12:36 PM
You can't swing a dead ninja cat without hitting an F2P MMO these days. Neverwinter just came out and has been getting good buzz. And just about any MMO that you've heard of in the past 10 years, except for WoW and EVE, has probably gone F2P.

gilby123
05-22-2013, 01:20 PM
I'm actually clueless about what F2P MMOs are out there, unless you count Star Wars the Old Republic, which I've at least heard of. What other ones are out there so I can read up on them?

Rift, Aeon, DDO, LOTRO off the top of my head

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 01:42 PM
TERA, which is a great game.

Fireblast
05-22-2013, 01:53 PM
The PvP prize support would bring in Pro M:tG players.
If they can assemble a deck for like $100 on the AH and play prize supported tournament, they will.

~

NaryaDL0re
05-22-2013, 02:27 PM
The simple fact that this is all online will enable it to suceed.
Games like WoWTCG survive with a low playerbase and even creat global tournaments.
And this game will have a much higher starting audience as well as far far lower maintaince costs.
Imagine all the usual budget for flights, rent, cards, etc going towards payout of online events.
This game will definitly suceed big time. The TCG community is one of the most persistent in the world after all.

BohemianStalker
05-22-2013, 03:06 PM
We need good referall system ..thats all...I personally know people who will tell 50 people just to get this tell 50 people prize :)

Travis
05-22-2013, 04:25 PM
Rift, Aeon, DDO, LOTRO

None of these started as free to play except maybe Aeon. They all went FTP after a massive loss of subs.

Travis
05-22-2013, 04:27 PM
I hate to crash this love-fest, but I don't think Hex is as much of an innovation as the 4 games you listed. Its rules (as far as we've seen) are extremely similar to MTG, and the concept of a F2P online card game has obviously been done many times. There are even some with an RPG/leveling/gearing component. The F2P aspect will help bring people in, but honestly there are a ton of F2P card games already available, several more in the works, and when they are all free, the low entry cost of Hex is not going to be that much of a draw.

We'll see which games are around a year from now. You can tell me you told me so then.

Deathfog
05-22-2013, 07:02 PM
You have to very extremely successful to charge a box + monthly price for a MMO, most fall short of WoWs loftiness and have to convert to f2p in time or just shut down. Many many WoW killers have been tried, all have failed in the end to take over its crown.