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Diplo
05-22-2013, 10:25 AM
Will players be able to take on multi-man (or woman) dungeons with random people ie. pug'ing in case they can't find a guild or will we all have to find a guild first that will accept us and all our quirks?

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 10:30 AM
As far as I remember, and as much as I hate this, I believe Cory said that dungeons are 1 person only. Which is one of the biggest concerns I have.

Diplo
05-22-2013, 10:32 AM
I'm fairly sure there's been a mention of 1 man, 2 man and 3 man variants (I will try and find this quote, might've been in ayoutube video). Or perhaps I'm confusing this with raids, in which case same question, but regarding raids.

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 10:37 AM
That was raids, which have been described as more of a single boss fight with multiple parts rather than a dungeon.

karmacappa
05-22-2013, 10:37 AM
Dungeons are for you, raids are for you and a couple of friends. There will probably be some kind of chat lobbies, so those will be the place you will be looking for PUGs to take on raids.

Diplo
05-22-2013, 10:41 AM
Ah thanks, in which case I might ask, is the PVE part of this game really just single player then? I fail to see the appeal of playing by myself when TCGs have to me, always been about playing with others. It still sounds neat but half the fun of PVE in other MMOs is to play together and share/reveal your sweet, sweet swag and work together to pimp each other out.

Vibraxus
05-22-2013, 10:42 AM
There will be 3-person raids. Dont know if you can PUG them, or if you have to take your own group.

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 10:45 AM
Ah thanks, in which case I might ask, is the PVE part of this game really just single player then? I fail to see the appeal of playing by myself when TCGs have to me, always been about playing with others. It still sounds neat but half the fun of PVE in other MMOs is to play together and share/reveal your sweet, sweet swag and work together to pimp each other out.

That is exactly how I feel on the issue. I'm concerned it is too single player focused, a lot of the neatest pve stuff seems to be dungeon-centric and I hate the idea that I will not be able to share that experience with friends. Raids are nice and all but seem to be less of a focus to the story than dungeons. The pvp aspects will be fun, but I honestly... have concerns about having to pay a dollar every time i want to draft.

Diplo
05-22-2013, 10:46 AM
Hmm, so question becomes, how do you start meeting people in the game? It'd be odd to rely on this forum to become part of a guild and only meet people via the guild. I think there will have to be some form of a PUG system to ensure the community grows stronger.

karmacappa
05-22-2013, 10:47 AM
Raids are part of PvE. So no, this game is not just single player. As far as comparing it to other TCGs, remember that you can play against other players as normal for any TCG.

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 10:48 AM
Raids are PVE but raids are not the focus of PVE dungeons are. At least that's how it seems to me. Most of the plot developement is going to happen in dungeons, the unique interesting content has to be dungeon heavy just because there are so much more to dungeons than raids.

Diplo
05-22-2013, 10:52 AM
@karmacappa So back to my first point, I sincerely hope there's a pug option, else it looks like @Gwaer and myself will have to start flirting with people to get some group gaming done.

karmacappa
05-22-2013, 10:52 AM
I don't believe they have ever said dungeons are the focus of PvE, they have merely revealed more about dungeons than they have raids to date.
Keep in mind that one of their $250 tiers is specifically related to raid content. Any perks related to dungeons affect raids too. However, the raid perk only applies to raid level content. It doesn't make any sense to say they don't focus on it when they put out a tier with raid bonuses as a perk.

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 10:57 AM
They have said basically what raids are, a single bossfight that evolves over stages.

and they have said what dungeons are, huge areas with multiple choices to make that influence factions and gaining mercs and have boss fights and many hidden things to explore. One has to be more content heavy than the other and it is obvious which one that is.

Diplo
05-22-2013, 10:58 AM
Seeing as none of us yet fully know how the PVE game will work, ie. will we simply go from battle to battle on a linear map until we reach a dungeon (with story build up) or will we randomly explore a world and decide what battles to fight? Even if Raids/Dungeons are PVE, I feel there hasn't been an explanation how you meet people to help you with these situations when they arise?

Diplo
05-22-2013, 11:00 AM
Since the game is not like other MMOs where you can actually run into someone and group up to accomplish harder feats, my brain is missing some imaginary numbers to help it process how this will work.

karmacappa
05-22-2013, 11:22 AM
They haven't given much information at all about raids. The reveals are later in their timeline. This is the company that developed the raid format for WoW TCG. Suffice it to say, you may be incorrect in your assumptions about the content.

Boojum
05-22-2013, 11:43 AM
I don't believe they have ever said dungeons are the focus of PvE, they have merely revealed more about dungeons than they have raids to date.

Actually...


The majority of the dungeons are single player. The only part of the game that require you to party are raids, and they're not put on the main storyline. I don't have the numbers (we're looking to expand dungeons and raids due to the KickStarter), but 90%+ of the game can be done in single player mode. That ratio isn't going to change.

I think this is a good decision. Turn-based games can tend to drag once you add more people (unless you use some sort of simultaneous-turn system), so focusing on single-player makes the most sense to me.

However, it would be cool if they had multiplayer dungeons where instead of all players being in the same big duel with the boss, each had their own tasks to complete in parallel (such as one makes his way to the gatehouse to open the drawbridge, one fights off hordes of reinforcements, and another sneaks through traps to the treasure vault.) The success of each one could help the others, so the players are communicating and cooperating, but not bogging down the way a full four-way duel can.

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 11:52 AM
...
However, it would be cool if they had multiplayer dungeons where instead of all players being in the same big duel with the boss, each had their own tasks to complete in parallel (such as one makes his way to the gatehouse to open the drawbridge, one fights off hordes of reinforcements, and another sneaks through traps to the treasure vault.) The success of each one could help the others, so they players are communicating and cooperating, but not bogging down the way a full four-way duel can.

Thats a pretty neat idea, I am just worried about pve being too single player focused is all. I'd like the option of running through story stuff with friends even if i could complete it solo.

caffn8d
05-22-2013, 11:58 AM
That's definitely a cool idea, Boojum. Multiple players and each takes one of several different path choices, then all get to see how the story resolves before the next set of challenges.

Diplo
05-22-2013, 12:01 PM
I second Boojuns jib cutting!

Lochar
05-22-2013, 12:02 PM
Actually...



I think this is a good decision. Turn-based games can tend to drag once you add more people (unless you use some sort of simultaneous-turn system), so focusing on single-player makes the most sense to me.

However, it would be cool if they had multiplayer dungeons where instead of all players being in the same big duel with the boss, each had their own tasks to complete in parallel (such as one makes his way to the gatehouse to open the drawbridge, one fights off hordes of reinforcements, and another sneaks through traps to the treasure vault.) The success of each one could help the others, so they players are communicating and cooperating, but not bogging down the way a full four-way duel can.

If a dungeon just involves straight you versus AI in a normal card game, I'm hoping there won't be dozens upon dozens of 'random battles.' If a given game takes twenty minutes to beat, eight or ten fights can take upwards of three hours to go through a dungeon. Unless you have save-stating for dungeons or something of that nature, it'll be... odd.

Daer
05-22-2013, 12:04 PM
You can save in dungeons.

ShaolinRaven
05-22-2013, 12:36 PM
Dungeons save your progress and only reset when you get 3 death marks.

Erebus
05-22-2013, 01:12 PM
I was actually hoping that raids were a hardmode version of dungeons. I mean boss-fights are fun and all, but they probably won't last long, an hour at most. I want to spend a little more time with my guildees and friends.

Oh well, I hope raid cooldowns are stupidly long (7 days? So I get to have one night a week WoW?)

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 01:20 PM
I'm not even sure that raids will have cooldowns, but it's my understanding that they will last significantly longer than an hour, more like 3 or so.

karmacappa
05-22-2013, 02:14 PM
Boojum, again, that's quantity. It does not speak to the quality or importance of the raid content.

Will you have to raid? No. Will there be more raids than dungeons? No. Will raids be as free form as dungeons? Nope. That's all we've been told.

Now, on to the points no one seems to be addressing.

Raids are end game content. They will likely be very challenging and require a certain amount of dedication. We know Cryptozoic has a lot of ability to make fun and interesting group TCG encounters, they've been doing it for over 6 years ever since they introduced the raid deck concept in WoW TCG. Successful raiders will be the elite PvE players.
While it isn't "main storyline", it will be optional encounters with some of the most incredibly powerful entities on Entrath. That means that while not everyone has to do it, it will none the less be significant for those heavily embroiled in the lore and experience of PvE. It is one thing to say you did a few dungeons where you fought the Vennen. It is another thing to say you faced down one of the firstborn of Xentoth with your two most doughty comrades.
The loot will be interesting. You can pretty much count on special loot tables for raids. If some of the best PvE cards and equipment are in raids, you could probably do without them, but do you WANT to do without them?

Talreth
05-22-2013, 02:18 PM
I was actually hoping that raids were a hardmode version of dungeons. I mean boss-fights are fun and all, but they probably won't last long, an hour at most. I want to spend a little more time with my guildees and friends.

Oh well, I hope raid cooldowns are stupidly long (7 days? So I get to have one night a week WoW?)

I don't have a link or a source but I could swear someone from CZE said no cooldowns.

DrVanPorcine
05-23-2013, 07:07 AM
I sincerely hope that there will be party based dungeons... or maybe multiples modes for dungeons (you could do it solo or with a group with different mechanics or harder difficulties).