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Daer
05-22-2013, 01:04 PM
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/hex-mmo-trading-card-game/posts/488512

Paypal is at 71k

http://i.imgur.com/eKphsed.jpg


For hitting that 1.5 million Stretch Goal, everyone will get free packs of Set 2.

Squire, Warrior:
1 Pack of Set 2

Captain, Knight
3 packs of Set 2

Champion, King
5 packs of Set 2

All levels above King
15 packs of Set 2

Additionally, if we hit that 1.5 million Stretch Goal, we're going to buff up the remaining $250 tiers. We'll add a bonus 1 free draft per week (for 1 year) to The Collector, The Raid Leader, The Dungeon Crawler, and The Guild Master. Note that these do not stack with the other free draft-per-week rewards. So, if your account does not have a "free draft-per-week" bonus to it (excluding the 3 free from the Kickstarter 600K stretch reward), then you will receive the 1 free draft per week for 1 year. That's a bonus $364 value!

Other $250 tiers get a free draft/week for a year but they don't stack with each other or the Pro Player and Grand King tiers.

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 01:07 PM
Nailed it, that's going to really speed up the other 250 tiers.

CoolGrayAJ
05-22-2013, 01:07 PM
Absolutely amazing :) Even happier I got Dungeon Crawler!

Kenshin
05-22-2013, 01:08 PM
1 draft per week for 1 year..sounds good, most likely to boost all these poor $250 tiers that have been in Pro Tier's shadow all this time.

jai151
05-22-2013, 01:08 PM
BAM! Let the feeding frenzy commence!

Merir
05-22-2013, 01:10 PM
This makes me seriously consider swapping my PP for a Dungeon Crawler. Probably won't do it due to the lifetime drafts, but it's close.

cheese
05-22-2013, 01:10 PM
Eh. We'll see what kicktraq says at the end of the day. I still don't expect any other $250 tier to go above 100 backers, sans Dungeon Crawler which already has

EccentricFan
05-22-2013, 01:11 PM
Nailed it, that's going to really speed up the other 250 tiers.

Yeah. Should help keep the money coming in. Glad their making those tiers more valuable, and can't complain about more set 2 boosters. I do hope they clarify the free draft per week for a year bit though.

Particularly in relation to GK+ level. Does this mean that GK+ gets the 1 draft per week for life plus a single 1 draft per week for a year that doesn't stack from all the parents? Or does it mean that GK+ just sticks with the 1 draft per week for life?

Considering they let people stack multiple Pro Tiers, I'm really hoping for the former, but based on the wording, I strongly suspect the latter. Ah well. I still wanted GK over 2x Pro, so I'll be happy enough without it. But can't blame me for hoping for a little more, can you? :)

dogmod
05-22-2013, 01:11 PM
Dungeon crawler and collector look like good values now.. even relative to 2x king..

jai151
05-22-2013, 01:12 PM
Eh. We'll see what kicktraq says at the end of the day. I still don't expect any other $250 tier to go above 100 backers, sans Dungeon Crawler which already has

Actually, I think Collector will get a big boost from this. If it stacked, I'd be tempted to add one to my account.

Qorsair
05-22-2013, 01:12 PM
Absolutely amazing :) Even happier I got Dungeon Crawler!

I would expect Dungeon Crawler will be the next "must have" tier, and depending what we hear about PVE, there may be quite a bit of demand for Raid Leader. I'd be surprised to see Collector or Guild Master sell out.

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 01:13 PM
I'm thinking a single grand king will *probably* end up having 1 draft per week.

ForgedSol
05-22-2013, 01:13 PM
Important to highlight:

Note that these do not stack with the other free draft-per-week rewards. So, if your account does not have a "free draft-per-week" bonus to it (excluding the 3 free from the Kickstarter 600K stretch reward), then you will receive the 1 free draft per week for 1 year.

So people who have been tempted with stacking pledges don't start scooping up some more.

Fireblast
05-22-2013, 01:13 PM
Smart design from CZE, no incentive for me tho

~

Genosaurer
05-22-2013, 01:13 PM
The collector is already up to 40. I think this will help a lot. every person that moves from Pro Player to one of the others that they may have thought about doing in the beginning will free up a pro player someone else will take. At same time, some that missed out on pro player may be more willing to get one of the others now.

Floru
05-22-2013, 01:15 PM
Yeah. Should help keep the money coming in. Glad their making those tiers more valuable, and can't complain about more set 2 boosters. I do hope they clarify the free draft per week for a year bit though.

Particularly in relation to GK+ level. Does this mean that GK+ gets the 1 draft per week for life plus a single 1 draft per week for a year that doesn't stack from all the parents? Or does it mean that GK+ just sticks with the 1 draft per week for life?

Considering they let people stack multiple Pro Tiers, I'm really hoping for the former, but based on the wording, I strongly suspect the latter. Ah well. I still wanted GK over 2x Pro, so I'll be happy enough without it. But can't blame me for hoping for a little more, can you? :)

I believe you only get the free draft for 1 year only if you don't have "Free Draft for life." As quoted from the update "Note that these do not stack with the other free draft-per-week rewards."

Daer
05-22-2013, 01:17 PM
Yeah it a nice design, everyone with a free draft already has no incentive to grab them and there is no incentive to stack them, so more people will get a chance at a free draft/week for a year at least.

Tinuvas
05-22-2013, 01:20 PM
Well played Crypto, well played.

ratceo
05-22-2013, 01:20 PM
I hope tablet support wont make it so that PC users get a frustrating UI with minimal features. Am i the only one who find playing games on tablet/ios/android to be boring due to the limits of user capabilities?

Drake6k
05-22-2013, 01:20 PM
Looks like I'm going to be buying a nice tablet now.

Being GK+Pro, I'm not very thrilled that my Pro is basically inferior to collector for the first year. Would be nice if I could feel more special again.

nearlysober
05-22-2013, 01:21 PM
I'm at Grand King and I'm ok with it not stacking. I think all the stacking got a bit out of hand, I don't think CZE imagined the frenzy when they allowed it, but I'm glad CZE is honoring it.

Pro-Players draft for life feature still blows it away in terms of draft value... but this change should get:
1.) More people buying higher tiers
2.) More unique people buying into KS instead of duplicate people
3.) More people trying & getting hooked to drafting/PvP

Jacklau89
05-22-2013, 01:21 PM
I rather thinks android and iso support is the highlight. It means broader player base and much more accessible than pc alone.

ForgedSol
05-22-2013, 01:22 PM
Looks like I'm going to be buying a nice tablet now.

Being GK+Pro, I'm not very thrilled that my Pro is basically inferior to collector for the first year. Would be nice if I could feel more special again. Part of me is tempted to turn my GK into x2 collector... but I'm afraid I'll regret it one day.

Remember that the free draft doesn't stack. If you convert to two Collectors, you still only get 1 draft a week.

Vibraxus
05-22-2013, 01:23 PM
I hope tablet support wont make it so that PC users get a frustrating UI with minimal features. Am i the only one who find playing games on tablet/ios/android to be boring due to the limits of user capabilities?

^ this!!!!111111eleven

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 01:23 PM
Looks like I'm going to be buying a nice tablet now.

Being GK+Pro, I'm not very thrilled that my Pro is basically inferior to collector for the first year. Would be nice if I could feel more special again.

Fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate; hate leads to suffering.

FranBunnyFFXII
05-22-2013, 01:24 PM
I think its amazing to see this kind of a game kick off.
Can't wait to see this.

Will they have an NDA/embargo on this beta? because This is the first time i'd be part of something like this and I want to have some good core content for my youtube. I'd love to give Hex some coverage :D

Manson0815
05-22-2013, 01:24 PM
Hm as a Grand King Tier i dont get a Second draft :-(
Only Bonus 15 booster of Set 2. could be better but think we get
Enough for 500 $

jai151
05-22-2013, 01:25 PM
I hope tablet support wont make it so that PC users get a frustrating UI with minimal features. Am i the only one who find playing games on tablet/ios/android to be boring due to the limits of user capabilities?

It's a CCG. 99.9999875% of it is point and click.

Merir
05-22-2013, 01:25 PM
I hope tablet support wont make it so that PC users get a frustrating UI with minimal features. Am i the only one who find playing games on tablet/ios/android to be boring due to the limits of user capabilities?

I personally couldn't care less about tablet/mobile support, but I'm not worried that they'd dumb down the PC interface to accommodate the new platforms. They must realize that the UI for this game is something that can make it or break it.

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 01:25 PM
I think its amazing to see this kind of a game kick off.
Can't wait to see this.

Will they have an NDA/embargo on this beta? because This is the first time i'd be part of something like this and I want to have some good core content for my youtube. I'd love to give Hex some coverage :D


I doubt this beta will include an NDA, no. It is possible, but very unlikely.

Drake6k
05-22-2013, 01:26 PM
Remember that the free draft doesn't stack. If you convert to two Collectors, you still only get 1 draft a week.
You're right. Think I'll just shake it off and be happy anyway.

gilby123
05-22-2013, 01:26 PM
EXCELLENT move by them.

It adds no encouragement to stack while improving the other $250 tiers and bumping everyone up with Set 2 packs and at a scale further encouraging the upper tiers.

I think 1.5m is totally reachable.

gilby123
05-22-2013, 01:27 PM
I doubt this beta will include an NDA, no. It is possible, but very unlikely.

As someone who's had to sign a number of them, I highly doubt it. For all purposes, the beta is going to be nearly an open beta.

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 01:27 PM
I personally couldn't care less about tablet/mobile support, but I'm not worried that they'd dumb down the PC interface to accommodate the new platforms. They must realize that the UI for this game is something that can make it or break it.

All of the magic happens server side, tablets can and will have an entirely separate UI that is not linked to the PC game, it could honestly be 8bit graphics on tablets and not change the pc implementation in any way.

Tikey
05-22-2013, 01:27 PM
I hope tablet support wont make it so that PC users get a frustrating UI with minimal features. Am i the only one who find playing games on tablet/ios/android to be boring due to the limits of user capabilities?

Considering that the UI that they've shown us so far, although not set in stone, is very minimalistic in nature (and very tablet intuitive), I doubt this will be a problem.

Genosaurer
05-22-2013, 01:27 PM
so my pro player is a constant 364 value per year, every year. If you don't play more than a year, the other tiers are automatically better than pro by a long shot. However, once you break the 1 year mark, pro becomes better again.

I hate things like this. Honestly, Final Fantasy X (only because of blitzball lol) and WoW are the only games have kept my attention even close or more than a year. BUT if it turns out like WoW where i've played like 5+ years, you are really hurting yourself giving up the free draft for lifetime.

CoolGrayAJ
05-22-2013, 01:27 PM
I would expect Dungeon Crawler will be the next "must have" tier, and depending what we hear about PVE, there may be quite a bit of demand for Raid Leader. I'd be surprised to see Collector or Guild Master sell out.

Not to toot my own horn, but I did call it (http://coolgraycorner.com/2013/05/18/hex-pro-player-pledge-tiers-sold-out/) :)

gilby123
05-22-2013, 01:28 PM
Hm as a Grand King Tier i dont get a Second draft :-(
Only Bonus 15 booster of Set 2. could be better but think we get
Enough for 500 $

Don't forget, GK is already getting 50 packs of Set 2 from the prior stretch goal as well. :)

FranBunnyFFXII
05-22-2013, 01:29 PM
I doubt this beta will include an NDA, no. It is possible, but very unlikely.

I'll be doing HEX coverage then, I can't wait to show this game off.

Bloodiron
05-22-2013, 01:31 PM
I think this finally cinched it for me to go from King to Dungeon Crawler instead of 2x King tiers. I wanted a PP, but wasn't fast enough to get it.

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 01:34 PM
If you still want a PP, a lot more people are likely to be switching out of it now, I've posted how to pretty much guaranteed get one in several places, some guy made a how to post based on it.

ForgedSol
05-22-2013, 01:37 PM
Yeah, some single Pro Tier pledgers might change their minds now... and multi Pro Tier pledgers who didn't read carefully about the not-stacking part.

Genosaurer
05-22-2013, 01:43 PM
I do believe the non stacking will get a few people that multi-pledged lol. As a single pro player tier, I'm debating on dungeon crawler. Surely I'm not the only one.

nicosharp
05-22-2013, 01:47 PM
Actually, I think Collector will get a big boost from this. If it stacked, I'd be tempted to add one to my account.
Exactly what I went for. I mean, Pro Player tier is still the best value long-term. But collector adds more rarity, and provides some trade-value cards over the long haul.

havocattack
05-22-2013, 01:47 PM
wait, pro tier still stacks with itself right?

Diesbudt
05-22-2013, 01:47 PM
Does this mean we may want to make a "on watch" of the dungeon crawler tier?

I know I am thinking going from King to it now, but i am not sure still.

Garod
05-22-2013, 01:48 PM
hmm a bit dissapointed with this one. I totally agree that the other 250$ definitely needed a bump, but giving them the same perk as a Pro tier is a bit disappointing. While everyone is right that it's only for a year wouldn't it have been fair then to give the Pro tier also 1 year worth of Dungeon Crawler or one of the other 250$ tiers, I mean everyone else get's that for life as well...

Diesbudt
05-22-2013, 01:49 PM
hmm a bit dissapointed with this one. I totally agree that the other 250$ definitely needed a bump, but giving them the same perk as a Pro tier is a bit disappointing. While everyone is right that it's only for a year wouldn't it have been fair then to give the Pro tier also 1 year worth of Dungeon Crawler or one of the other 250$ tiers, I mean everyone else get's that for life as well...

No, because PP also gets a special tournament with great prizes, on top of for life draft means sets 1 - when game dies.

1 year worth of drafting is sets 1, 2 and maybe a bit of 3 before it runs out

dogmod
05-22-2013, 01:49 PM
Looks like dungeon crawler and collector are heating up... and for a second there I thought I had heard a screeching sound like brakes ;o

Watch
05-22-2013, 01:49 PM
Kind of sucks that the biggest non mobile support bonus only applies to 4 specific $250 tiers, and gives no benefits for the other $250 tier or the ones above it. I agree that it was a smart move to help them raise more money, but it could've been balanced better.

dogmod
05-22-2013, 01:50 PM
Kind of sucks that the biggest non mobile support bonus only applies to 4 specific $250 tiers, and gives no benefits for the other $250 tier or the ones above it. I agree that it was a smart move to help them raise more money, but it could've been balanced better.

The original tiers could have been balanced better as well

Vibraxus
05-22-2013, 01:51 PM
hmm a bit dissapointed with this one. I totally agree that the other 250$ definitely needed a bump, but giving them the same perk as a Pro tier is a bit disappointing. While everyone is right that it's only for a year wouldn't it have been fair then to give the Pro tier also 1 year worth of Dungeon Crawler or one of the other 250$ tiers, I mean everyone else get's that for life as well...


Yeah and while they are at it why not give GK 4 sets of the King stuff...its supposed to be everything each of the other 250 tiers get. And then lets add a second draft a week to GK because, hey we paid 500 just like the stackers of PP....

Garod
05-22-2013, 01:51 PM
Disagree with you on that, there are going to be 1k entries into the Pro tier tournament the chance of winning anything in that is next to 0 (at least for me)
Also again your coming up with that 1 year is nothing, if 1 year of something isn't that important then give the pro's 1 year of something.

nicosharp
05-22-2013, 01:51 PM
Glad the pot was sweetened. I can already picture myself in a lounge chair playing this on a tablet.... on a beach.... with a corona...

Thrawn
05-22-2013, 01:51 PM
It's a CCG. 99.9999875% of it is point and click.

Yet the MTGO client still sucks after over 10 years and the new one is just as bad which is what drives a lot of the interest in Hex. UIs are a big deal no matter how simple the controls are.

ForgedSol
05-22-2013, 01:53 PM
Considering that the Pro Tier was incredibly unbalanced, adding to it would have hurt balancing the tiers, not helped, considering they're all $250. As for higher levels, I do feel like Dragon Lord and above should have gotten at least an additional draft per week, but at least Dragon Lords sold out so enough people did feel like it was worth it already.

Kami
05-22-2013, 01:55 PM
LOL @ Pro tiers complaining...

I'm sorry but the irony is amusing.

Now... this might actually convince me to buy a tablet although I have no use for one. Hmmm!

CoolGrayAJ
05-22-2013, 01:58 PM
Glad the pot was sweetened. I can already picture myself in a lounge chair playing this on a tablet.... on a beach.... with a corona...

OMG You're actually gonna start playing again!?

<- Antonio from the Sacramento crew

Twztyd
05-22-2013, 02:01 PM
As a pro player I am happy with these perks. I am happy to see the incentivied the tiers that werent selling so we get more people involved in this game.

MasterPlan
05-22-2013, 02:02 PM
If you are a pro player you should be happy with more people to play against. There will be more tournaments to play in and thus more prizes available. Really it is win win.

It may also have the benefit of introducing some PVE players to the PVP side of it which is good for everyone.

Shinjica
05-22-2013, 02:05 PM
If you are a pro player you should be happy with more people to play against. There will be more tournaments to play in and thus more prizes available. Really it is win win.

It may also have the benefit of introducing some PVE players to the PVP side of it which is good for everyone.

I much prefere other tier get something who have to do with that tier, not a part of another one.

For example the guild tier could have added 30 booster pack a month to your guild member.

Simple add draft tournament for everyone is a cheap move.

houjix
05-22-2013, 02:06 PM
If you are a pro player you should be happy with more people to play against. There will be more tournaments to play in and thus more prizes available. Really it is win win.

It may also have the benefit of introducing some PVE players to the PVP side of it which is good for everyone.

Yup. More players means healthier game, means more income, means longer game life, means more time for PP to collect on their free drafts.

Vibraxus
05-22-2013, 02:08 PM
if you are a pro player you should be happy with more people to play against. There will be more tournaments to play in and thus more prizes available. Really it is win win.

It may also have the benefit of introducing some pve players to the pvp side of it which is good for everyone.

bingo!

nicosharp
05-22-2013, 02:09 PM
OMG You're actually gonna start playing again!?

<- Antonio from the Sacramento crew

I've been playing MTGO... I cant get away from card games - Just couldn't keep up on weekends and with shelf space for WOWTCG. How's it going Tonio!?

jai151
05-22-2013, 02:09 PM
Yet the MTGO client still sucks after over 10 years and the new one is just as bad which is what drives a lot of the interest in Hex. UIs are a big deal no matter how simple the controls are.

Didn't mean to imply UI isn't a big deal. What I meant was all a PC gives you over a tablet is a keyboard. Since most of the game will be point and click, it should port without any gimping of either environment

Qorsair
05-22-2013, 02:10 PM
I was wondering why the Pros care until I thought about it a bit longer.
The market for resale just took a huge hit, and I'm wondering if some of the people who are upset were planning on making a quick profit by reselling it shortly after launch? Now there's not going to be much demand until at least a year after launch.

houjix
05-22-2013, 02:10 PM
Honestly though, I think 6 months of free drafts for those other tiers would have been fine and wouldn't have gotten the PP tiers all in a tizzy.

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 02:11 PM
I was wondering why the Pros care until I thought about it a bit longer.
The market for resale just took a huge hit, and I'm wondering if some of the people who are upset were planning on making a quick profit by reselling it shortly after launch? Now there's not going to be much demand until at least a year after launch.

A good thought! If that's why they're upset I am even happier about this goal!

MasterPlan
05-22-2013, 02:13 PM
I much prefere other tier get something who have to do with that tier, not a part of another one.

For example the guild tier could have added 30 booster pack a month to your guild member.

Simple add draft tournament for everyone is a cheap move.

Seriously, The big feature of the pro has always been the free draft for life. Other people getting a temporary (1 year) boost that does not stack, in no way diminishes what you have.

If you have a beautiful girlfriend her beauty is not diminished because other people also have beautiful girlfriends.

If you spent 250 dollars expecting not to play this game for longer than a year, I have no sympathy for you.

darkwonders
05-22-2013, 02:13 PM
A good thought! If that's why they're upset I am even happier about this goal!

My thoughts exactly. People shouldn't be backing this game just so they can profit off of it shortly after launch...

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 02:16 PM
I feel bad for anyone at GK and up. They basically got shafted by this stretch goal.

MasterPlan
05-22-2013, 02:16 PM
A good thought! If that's why they're upset I am even happier about this goal!

I agree, I also think we will see a draft per week add on for some amount of money, although based on this stretch goal maybe it will be an add on limited for a year.

I still think stacking kickstarter/paypal tiers was a huge mistake they should have just had add-ons. Everyone wins.

MasterPlan
05-22-2013, 02:19 PM
I feel bad for anyone at GK and up. They basically got shafted by this stretch goal.

I think part of the problem is the entitled feeling most people have. I do not see how someone can get shafted by a bonus. Its a bonus, if you were happy before the bonus there is no reason to feel unhappy if someone else got slightly more of a bump than you did.

If you are the VP of a company and you got a 10% bonus while admin assistants got a 20% bonus should you be unhappy that you got a bonus?

Thanisse
05-22-2013, 02:19 PM
noooow ... which one to get :)) ?
I might end up scavanging the 250 by 2nd next month , should I aim for collector or crawler xD ?

KingBlackstone
05-22-2013, 02:20 PM
I feel bad for anyone at GK and up. They basically got shafted by this stretch goal.
GK actually quite benefits from this! Imagine if you had Pro Player x1 and you decided you're interested in the Collector bonus (or, the Dungeon Crawler bonus if you're one of those PvE types). If you had gone GK earlier, you would've had ALL $250 tier bonuses, but now the price of a GK tier only gets you two of the bonuses.

Also lmao @ all the Pro Player hatred in here. You guys are spiteful! :cool:

houjix
05-22-2013, 02:20 PM
I feel bad for anyone at GK and up. They basically got shafted by this stretch goal.

If we get tablet support, I won't be unhappy. Plus if it gets more people into the game to helps its longevity, I'll be even happier. Not every goal has to some something directly in for me.

Kami
05-22-2013, 02:21 PM
I think part of the problem is the entitled feeling most people have. I do not see how someone can get shafted by a bonus. Its a bonus, if you were happy before the bonus there is no reason to feel unhappy if someone else got slightly more of a bump than you did.

If you are the VP of a company and you got a 10% bonus while admin assistants got a 20% bonus should you be unhappy that you got a bonus?

If you are the VP of a company, your 10% is likely more than the 20% your assistants would have.

That's besides the point though.

However, even if it is a bonus, this is technically an investment and those who buy-in more take more inherent risk than people who buy-in at less. Therefore, any bonus should at least scale to represent the risk taken. Unfortunately, in several cases, the tiers are unbalanced.

Turtlewing
05-22-2013, 02:22 PM
I was wondering why the Pros care until I thought about it a bit longer.
The market for resale just took a huge hit, and I'm wondering if some of the people who are upset were planning on making a quick profit by reselling it shortly after launch? Now there's not going to be much demand until at least a year after launch.

Market speculation is a hash mistress.

Personally I'm sitting at GK + Collector so I miss out on the extra drafts, but I'm glad to see the non-pro player tiers get a pot sweetener. It should drive more donations, and since it's not stackable those should manly come from additional players rather than a small number of "big spenders". That will hopefully make for a larger more diverse and generally healthier community.

Garod
05-22-2013, 02:22 PM
Honestly don't understand all the sudden "hate" against the pro tier folks?
Don't think anyone disputes that the tier was pretty heavy and that other tiers needed a bump.
Don't think most Pro tiers would have said a word if this was handled differently.
It has absolutely nothing to do with not agreeing with the 1 year free drafts and I'm happy they got it.
What I am saying is it would have been nice if the Pro tier as well as GK and upward got something in addition as well since this is the last stretch goal.
Although honestly I would have been happier with some more features on the game. Something new aside from a few more dungeons etc.

Merir
05-22-2013, 02:23 PM
Seriously, The big feature of the pro has always been the free draft for life. Other people getting a temporary (1 year) boost that does not stack, in no way diminishes what you have.

If you have a beautiful girlfriend her beauty is not diminished because other people also have beautiful girlfriends.

If you spent 250 dollars expecting not to play this game for longer than a year, I have no sympathy for you.

In my opinion you're wrong. If you have a beautiful girlfriend and all your friends have average looking girlfriends, your girlfriend is absolutely stunning relative to theirs, and you can bet they're jealous whether they admit it or not. If everyone has a hot girlfriend, yours is nothing special. She's simply average. A girl isn't beautiful in a vacuum - she's beautiful relative to other girls. The hottest girl in your highschool / college was so hot because she was surrounded by average looking girls -but take her to the Playboy mansion, and nobody will look at her twice [EDIT: all the guys would look at her twice.. even thrice. But she'd get ogled no more than any other girl].

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 02:23 PM
If you are a pro player you should be happy with more people to play against. There will be more tournaments to play in and thus more prizes available. Really it is win win.

It may also have the benefit of introducing some PVE players to the PVP side of it which is good for everyone.

I don't really think being able to find draft opponents would have been an issue without the free drafts...

NaryaDL0re
05-22-2013, 02:23 PM
Anyone else going to go the extra mile now to advertise this?
I personally cannot wait for confirmation on tablet support.
Playing this at university is more than just icing on the cake.
I m grand king and I approve of this tier all the way!

Talreth
05-22-2013, 02:24 PM
In my opinion you're wrong. If you have a beautiful girlfriend and all your friends have average looking girlfriends, your girlfriend is absolutely stunning relative to theirs, and you can bet they're jealous whether they admit it or not. If everyone has a hot girlfriend, yours is nothing special. She's simply average. A girl isn't beautiful in a vacuum - she's beautiful relative to other girls. The hottest girl in your highschool / college was so hot because she was surrounded by average looking girls -but take her to the Playboy mansion, and nobody will look at her twice.

Merir's theory of girlfriend relativity

KingBlackstone
05-22-2013, 02:25 PM
In my opinion you're wrong. If you have a beautiful girlfriend and all your friends have average looking girlfriends, your girlfriend is absolutely stunning relative to theirs, and you can bet they're jealous whether they admit it or not. If everyone has a hot girlfriend, yours is nothing special. She's simply average. A girl isn't beautiful in a vacuum - she's beautiful relative to other girls. The hottest girl in your highschool / college was so hot because she was surrounded by average looking girls -but take her to the Playboy mansion, and nobody will look at her twice.
I stopped reading this when I realized you are a womanizer.

..I am too. Let's go out for drinks sometime!

Merir
05-22-2013, 02:26 PM
Merir's theory of girlfriend relativity

You know it's true :D

Talreth
05-22-2013, 02:27 PM
You know it's true :D

Yeah, but to be fair I'd look at everyone in the Playboy Mansion twice (cept Hugh).

jai151
05-22-2013, 02:30 PM
In my opinion you're wrong. If you have a beautiful girlfriend and all your friends have average looking girlfriends, your girlfriend is absolutely stunning relative to theirs, and you can bet they're jealous whether they admit it or not. If everyone has a hot girlfriend, yours is nothing special. She's simply average. A girl isn't beautiful in a vacuum - she's beautiful relative to other girls. The hottest girl in your highschool / college was so hot because she was surrounded by average looking girls -but take her to the Playboy mansion, and nobody will look at her twice.

Pro Player is still infinitely more valuable than any other equal or lesser tier.

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 02:30 PM
I'd look at Hugh twice, just to make sure he didn't catch me staring at his wife...

Anyway, back on topic, we'll see what happens - if the numbers flop, Cryptozoic might change the bonuses.

Turtlewing
05-22-2013, 02:30 PM
I think part of the problem is the entitled feeling most people have. I do not see how someone can get shafted by a bonus. Its a bonus, if you were happy before the bonus there is no reason to feel unhappy if someone else got slightly more of a bump than you did.


That's not entirely true. By increasing the value of 4 out of 5 $250 tiers they increase the opportunity cost of selecting the 5th (Pro Player).

It is completely rational for a Pro Player backer to decide that their current reward is now less of a good idea and switch to one of the other tiers.

Though such a backer could simply switch to a tier they find more appealing, so whining about it is a little pointless. And since the new perk is time limited, doesn't stack, and does not include the pro tournament invite, the pro player tier is not a strictly inferior choice.

houjix
05-22-2013, 02:32 PM
I think you're all missing the bigger picture here; Guild Master just hit 8 backers! 3 new people have taken the plunge today. Isn't that awesome. Honestly, it's most likley people upgrading from King, but still.

FireSummoner
05-22-2013, 02:32 PM
I think it is more the bonus that they are paying for doesn't kick in for a year. I think it is very similar to if the beta invite got pushed back a year or if any of the tier perks had to wait a year. A lot of people would be very angry with the expectation. Now at launch they only have a one time perk (the tournament) until a year. Now, it is cool if you don't agree with it or understand it but I really hope we can talk about this without attacking people. Right now the kickstarter comment page just makes me sad.

Turtlewing
05-22-2013, 02:32 PM
What I am saying is it would have been nice if the Pro tier as well as GK and upward got something in addition as well since this is the last stretch goal.

We did get more set 2 packs, and tablet support.

Merir
05-22-2013, 02:33 PM
Yeah, but to be fair I'd look at everyone in the Playboy Mansion twice (cept Hugh).

A valid point, edited my post.

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 02:34 PM
Tablet support is something they were going to implement, anyway. I would prefer Cryptozoic to concentrate on a single platform (PC) until after launch and the economy, population, etc. stabilizes before they released the game on other platforms.

Honestly, I think everyone except pure-tablet players would have wanted more KS-exclusive rewards. Cards, Alternative Art, Playmats, Avatars, Borders, Deck Sleeves, pick *any* of the above.

Jugan
05-22-2013, 02:35 PM
I feel bad for anyone at GK and up. They basically got shafted by this stretch goal.

Right on the money. Looks like pro player will be strictly inferior to every other $250 tier for the fist year, unless they win some sort of amazing prize. Then, in the long run, they still might end up to be on the bottom of the $250 tiers depending on how +100% Loots, 6 promo cards/year, and raid buffs work out. Grand King pays a premium and pretty heavy tradeoff for the 5 tiered buffs, and now they get shafted.

I hope you people at PP and GK are made, because your tiers look pretty close to dog shit now.

Talreth
05-22-2013, 02:36 PM
Right on the money. Looks like pro player will be strictly inferior to every other $250 tier for the fist year, unless they win some sort of amazing prize. Then, in the long run, they still might end up to be on the bottom of the $250 tiers depending on how +100% Loots, 6 promo cards/year, and raid buffs work out. Grand King pays a premium and pretty heavy tradeoff for the 5 tiered buffs, and now they get shafted.

I hope you people at PP and GK are made, because your tiers look pretty close to dog shit now.

Multipledging still worth it tho

MasterPlan
05-22-2013, 02:37 PM
If you are the VP of a company, your 10% is likely more than the 20% your assistants would have.

That's besides the point though.

However, even if it is a bonus, this is technically an investment and those who buy-in more take more inherent risk than people who buy-in at less. Therefore, any bonus should at least scale to represent the risk taken. Unfortunately, in several cases, the tiers are unbalanced.

I realize my example was not a perfect example. You backed at the producer level, which from a purely "investment" perspective does not get you the same "value" as stacking a huge number of the lower tiers. You obviously found enough personal or goodwill value to back at that level. Lower tiers getting a bonus (and you still received bonuses as well) should not change that equation.

Now ask me if I would have liked more bonuses the GK tier and above... my answer would be yes. However I am not bitter or jealous what the lower tiers got. I think I am still getting good value for my money.

gilby123
05-22-2013, 02:38 PM
I feel bad for anyone at GK and up. They basically got shafted by this stretch goal.

I don't see that at all.

Really, no one should feel shafted. If this move means more players, that means more games played, more interest, larger player base, and longer game life.

If they're THAT bent out of shape by other tiers getting a boost, then drop what you have and switch to them. Pretty sure someone will HAPPILY take that GK/PP spot.

Genosaurer
05-22-2013, 02:38 PM
I think we have enough set 1 cards and they don't want to ruin their future profit by handing out tons of set 2 cards. There really doesn't seem like there is that much more to give us from a PvP stand point. Already getting free drafts and tons of cards...what else is there? A sleeve? hardly something I care about.

ForgedSol
05-22-2013, 02:39 PM
Yeah I know! My tiers are crap! I wouldn't be surprised if everyone just dumps all the Pro Tiers and Grand Kings now for the other four. =P

Good one guys. You ain't tricking me. My Grand Kings are still fantastic.

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 02:40 PM
Right on the money. Looks like pro player will be strictly inferior to every other $250 tier for the fist year, unless they win some sort of amazing prize. Then, in the long run, they still might end up to be on the bottom of the $250 tiers depending on how +100% Loots, 6 promo cards/year, and raid buffs work out. Grand King pays a premium and pretty heavy tradeoff for the 5 tiered buffs, and now they get shafted.

I hope you people at PP and GK are made, because your tiers look pretty close to dog shit now.

From what I remember, the Pro Player wins 4 copies of each launch card.

gilby123
05-22-2013, 02:43 PM
In my opinion you're wrong. If you have a beautiful girlfriend and all your friends have average looking girlfriends, your girlfriend is absolutely stunning relative to theirs, and you can bet they're jealous whether they admit it or not. If everyone has a hot girlfriend, yours is nothing special. She's simply average. A girl isn't beautiful in a vacuum - she's beautiful relative to other girls. The hottest girl in your highschool / college was so hot because she was surrounded by average looking girls -but take her to the Playboy mansion, and nobody will look at her twice [EDIT: all the guys would look at her twice.. even thrice. But she'd get ogled no more than any other girl].

All that should matter is if she's beautiful to YOU.
If you're that invested in what everyone else is getting compared to you, then you're missing the point.

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 02:43 PM
I don't see that at all.

Really, no one should feel shafted. If this move means more players, that means more games played, more interest, larger player base, and longer game life.

If they're THAT bent out of shape by other tiers getting a boost, then drop what you have and switch to them. Pretty sure someone will HAPPILY take that GK/PP spot.

Huh? Taken to logical extremes, that would mean that if they lowered the price of all the $250 pledge tiers to $125, but kept Pro-Player and GK the same, you didn't lose value if you had previously pledged GK?

In any case, what I meant was that the final stretch goal only really benefits 4 of the pledge tiers, and indirectly nerfs Pro Player and all the higher tiers. The set 2 boosters are nice, but, again, not really what I was pledgers who are willing to plop down money early were looking for. It's neither exclusive nor unique.

Daer
05-22-2013, 02:43 PM
Right on the money. Looks like pro player will be strictly inferior to every other $250 tier for the fist year, unless they win some sort of amazing prize. Then, in the long run, they still might end up to be on the bottom of the $250 tiers depending on how +100% Loots, 6 promo cards/year, and raid buffs work out. Grand King pays a premium and pretty heavy tradeoff for the 5 tiered buffs, and now they get shafted.

I hope you people at PP and GK are made, because your tiers look pretty close to dog shit now.

lol PP is still the best $250 tier, the others are just closer to it now. I'm sure the majority of PP and GKs are perfectly fine with this update. Both PP and GK have more bonuses then they did before the update. Enjoy what you have and quit looking at what your neighbor has.

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 02:45 PM
lol PP is still the best $250 tier, the others are just closer to it now. I'm sure the majority of PP and GKs are perfectly fine with this update. Enjoy what you have and quit looking at what your neighbor has.

It's not an issue of "Oh PP is just as good as before."

The problem is that PP/GK/DK+ were neglected by the final stretch goal, and they also happened to be the group of people that pledged the earliest for the largest amounts.

jai151
05-22-2013, 02:47 PM
Huh? Taken to logical extremes, that would mean that if they lowered the price of all the $250 pledge tiers to $125, but kept Pro-Player and GK the same, you didn't lose value if you had previously pledged GK?

In any case, what I meant was that the final stretch goal only really benefits 4 of the pledge tiers, and indirectly nerfs Pro Player and all the higher tiers. The set 2 boosters are nice, but, again, not really what I was pledgers who are willing to plop down money early were looking for. It's neither exclusive nor unique.

Nothing was indirectly nerfed. The draft bonus does not stack. So just tell yourself they gave it to every $250+ tier, because it would end up with everyone in exactly the same place.

ForgedSol
05-22-2013, 02:50 PM
Huh? Taken to logical extremes, that would mean that if they lowered the price of all the $250 pledge tiers to $125, but kept Pro-Player and GK the same, you didn't lose value if you had previously pledged GK?

In any case, what I meant was that the final stretch goal only really benefits 4 of the pledge tiers, and indirectly nerfs Pro Player and all the higher tiers. The set 2 boosters are nice, but, again, not really what I was pledgers who are willing to plop down money early were looking for. It's neither exclusive nor unique.

Or how other people see it. Pro Tier was worth 1000 value points, Raid Leader was worth 100 value points, and the rest at zero. This adds another 250 value points to the other four tiers and the Pro Tier still blows them out of the water (Adjust numbers as needed, but you get what I mean).

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 02:50 PM
Nothing was indirectly nerfed. The draft bonus does not stack. So just tell yourself they gave it to every $250+ tier, because it would end up with everyone in exactly the same place.

GK's benefit is as follows:
"Everything from the King, The Pro Player, The Guild Master, The Dungeon Crawler, The Raid Leader, and The Collector tiers (King tier is included only once--not six times). “The Grand King” exclusive Deck Customizable Sleeves."

Then they include a stretch goal that is explicitly written to avoid being given to GK pledges and up.

How is that not an indirect nerf?

Merir
05-22-2013, 02:51 PM
All that should matter is if she's beautiful to YOU.
If you're that invested in what everyone else is getting compared to you, then you're missing the point.

And that IS all that matters. But what I (and you, and anyone) find beautiful depends on what's available. If I grow up in a village of lepers, I might find a woman with all four limbs intact gorgeous. On the other hand, if I grew up hanging out with Hugh at his mansion, the woman I would consider beautiful would be very different. Beauty doesn't exist in a vacuum. In order for a woman to be beautiful, you need to have average looking and ugly women for comparison.

jai151
05-22-2013, 02:52 PM
GK's benefit is as follows:
"Everything from the King, The Pro Player, The Guild Master, The Dungeon Crawler, The Raid Leader, and The Collector tiers (King tier is included only once--not six times). “The Grand King” exclusive Deck Customizable Sleeves."

Then they include a stretch goal that is explicitly written to avoid being given to GK pledges and up.

How is that not an indirect nerf?

Because to nerf something it has to be lessened in power. Nothing about those tiers were lessened. The bonus didn't go to those tiers because we already had it.

Piratepal
05-22-2013, 02:52 PM
If nothing else (and there are elses) this was a terrible PR move. Why create controversy when you're half way through a kickstarter for a game that hasn't even been released? A troubling blunder.

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 02:53 PM
Or how other people see it. Pro Tier was worth 1000 value points, Raid Leader was worth 100 value points, and the rest at zero. This adds another 250 value points to the other four tiers and the Pro Tier still blows them out of the water (Adjust numbers as needed, but you get what I mean).

I think you missed the point of my post, which was simply that these benefits are not in line with the other KS bonuses (exclusive mercenaries, cards, etc.) and I don't think that all the remaining players who haven't already pledged at the $250 level or higher will be influenced by the new stretch goals, except for the people who missed PP/GK.

houjix
05-22-2013, 02:53 PM
Because to nerf something it has to be lessened in power. Nothing about those tiers were lessened. The bonus didn't go to those tiers because we already had it.

Exactly, it's just the gap between them has been narrowed for 1 year.

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 02:54 PM
Because to nerf something it has to be lessened in power. Nothing about those tiers were lessened. The bonus didn't go to those tiers because we already had it.

No, that's an explicitly different bonus, because we already allow for stacking weekly drafts through multi-pledges.

Ditsch
05-22-2013, 02:54 PM
@Piratepal true they did themself a bad after taste on how they want to sell the other tiers, so they might pull or more stunts like that. :(

jai151
05-22-2013, 02:55 PM
If nothing else (and there are elses) this was a terrible PR move. Why create controversy when you're half way through a kickstarter for a game that hasn't even been released? A troubling blunder.

/facepalm

Doing nothing to correct the tier imbalance was called a terrible PR move.

Correcting it is called a terrible PR move.

Methinks anything short of giving everyone everything will be called a terrible PR move.

jai151
05-22-2013, 02:56 PM
No, that's an explicitly different bonus, because we already allow for stacking weekly drafts through multi-pledges.

Okay, we didn't get it because WE ALREADY HAD BETTER.

Happy?

ForgedSol
05-22-2013, 02:57 PM
@Piratepal true they did themself a bad after taste on how they want to sell the other tiers, so they might pull or more stunts like that. :(

Considering the fact that the other tiers are now selling, it was the exact opposite of a bad move.

arastor
05-22-2013, 02:58 PM
/facepalm

Doing nothing to correct the tier imbalance was called a terrible PR move.

Correcting it is called a terrible PR move.

Methinks anything short of giving everyone everything will be called a terrible PR move.

Don't think anyone is saying that closing the gap between the tiers is a bad idea. People are complaining about the way it was done, which some may feel lacks elegance. In particular, making Pro Tier the worst tier for the first year of the games life seems particularly bad. Something interesting and unique to each of the tiers would have been a better move.

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 02:59 PM
Considering the fact that the other tiers are now selling, it was the exact opposite of a bad move.

I've been looking at Kicktraq for the last hour, and today's pledge total hasn't budged during that time.

jai151
05-22-2013, 03:01 PM
I've been looking at Kicktraq for the last hour, and today's pledge total hasn't budged during that time.

You do know Kicktraq updates once an hour, right?

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 03:03 PM
You do know Kicktraq updates once an hour, right?

Nope, do now though.
My bad.

Just updated - we gained 14 pledges in the last hour.

jai151
05-22-2013, 03:06 PM
Don't think anyone is saying that closing the gap between the tiers is a bad idea. People are complaining about the way it was done, which some may feel lacks elegance. In particular, making Pro Tier the worst tier for the first year of the games life seems particularly bad. Something interesting and unique to each of the tiers would have been a better move.

Well, we didn't exactly give them a lot of time to think. Honestly, I think the best idea would have been to give Pro+ one free constructed tournament a week for the first year. It's wouldn't have been a major value add, and it would have given something to placate.

But I just can't be upset that other people got something.

DeusPhasmatis
05-22-2013, 03:07 PM
I am underwhelmed. They're all good things, and the move to improve the non-pro $250 tiers is much needed. The problem is that I don't own (nor will I acquire) a tablet anytime in the foreseeable future (though tablet support is good for the game as a whole), and I am pledged as a Grand King. Less than a third of the 960k stretch goal isn't really all that "legendary" for me.

gilby123
05-22-2013, 03:10 PM
Huh? Taken to logical extremes, that would mean that if they lowered the price of all the $250 pledge tiers to $125, but kept Pro-Player and GK the same, you didn't lose value if you had previously pledged GK?

In any case, what I meant was that the final stretch goal only really benefits 4 of the pledge tiers, and indirectly nerfs Pro Player and all the higher tiers. The set 2 boosters are nice, but, again, not really what I was pledgers who are willing to plop down money early were looking for. It's neither exclusive nor unique.

Right, but it helps to feed the pro players drafts, correct? So then the only complaint is that those other tiers get extra packs. Ok, then switch to one of them. The whole point is to get people into those tiers, the ones that don't strictly just pay off themselves over time, and bring in more people.

The other side of things people seem to be forgetting is that not everyone may USE their drafts weekly. Or may draft the cards and drop (equivalent of some folks at Magic prereleases just walking out with their product immediately), meaning the opponent in the draft gets a free bye.

I just don't get the amount of complaining. It's not like they took money out of your pocket. If you want to claim they now made the other tiers effectively cost less, fine, but ultimately the PP and GK+ are the only ones that will pay off over time.

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 03:11 PM
Easiest thing they could have done without making anyone (of the large pledge tiers) angry: All $250+ tiers get an additional $250 tier bonus of their choice. You are still limited to 4 free weekly drafts.

Grand Kings get this benefit twice.
DKs+ get it four times.

Give the lower tiers X free drafts, where X = $Pledge / 10.

ForgedSol
05-22-2013, 03:12 PM
There would be reason to complain if it was the opposite of what happened. If Cryptozoic added bonuses only to tiers that were already full. "Why did they add bonuses only to tiers I have no chance of changing my pledge to!" But that's not the case. Anyone who feels the other tiers are now a better deal... well... they can simply change their pledge. Plenty of spots left.

Ditsch
05-22-2013, 03:13 PM
@Tyrfang 4 weekly drafts ?

jai151
05-22-2013, 03:13 PM
Easiest thing they could have done without making anyone (of the large pledge tiers) angry: All $250+ tiers get an additional $250 tier bonus of their choice. You are still limited to 4 free weekly drafts.

Grand Kings get this benefit twice.
DKs+ get it four times.

Give the lower tiers X free drafts, where X = $Pledge / 10.

The problem with that being most of the other $250 bonuses don't stack.

arastor
05-22-2013, 03:14 PM
Well, we didn't exactly give them a lot of time to think. Honestly, I think the best idea would have been to give Pro+ one free constructed tournament a week for the first year. It's wouldn't have been a major value add, and it would have given something to placate.
I agree, time constraints is probably one of the big reasons they did it the way they did. There was a part of me that had hoped that they had something already in mind for the Legendary reveal though. They probably did, in the form of the mobile app. And I will admit, if a free constructed would have been enough to shut me up. A token offering of earth and water. :cool:


But I just can't be upset that other people got something.
You are a better man (or woman) than I. There is a part of me that wants to be a special snowflake, and that, more than anything else, is what took the hit this update. That said, I'll (probably) get over it.

gilby123
05-22-2013, 03:14 PM
And that IS all that matters. But what I (and you, and anyone) find beautiful depends on what's available. If I grow up in a village of lepers, I might find a woman with all four limbs intact gorgeous. On the other hand, if I grew up hanging out with Hugh at his mansion, the woman I would consider beautiful would be very different. Beauty doesn't exist in a vacuum. In order for a woman to be beautiful, you need to have average looking and ugly women for comparison.

Sure, but if you're with your girl and a prettier one walks by, do you then devalue your gal/find her less beautiful? All it matters is that you find her beautiful. Not comparatively. Yes, to get an overall gauge growing up, you would look at all women, but once you're with one, to you then compare daily to make sure her beauty hasn't devalued? 0_o

FireSummoner
05-22-2013, 03:14 PM
Effectively they turned off the PP tiers perk for a year and for a Legendary stretch goal at that. Also, you can't say that $250 isn't a sizable commitment to the game, so people who are passionate about this game just saw there pledge perk negated. I can understand why people are upset.

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 03:15 PM
There would be reason to complain if it was the opposite of what happened. If Cryptozoic added bonuses only to tiers that were already full. "Why did they add bonuses only to tiers I have no chance of changing my pledge to!" But that's not the case. Anyone who feels the other tiers are now a better deal... well... they can simply change their pledge. Plenty of spots left.

Well, the problem there is:
1) The people who have already pledged to the full tiers are more committed (mentally, at least, if not done through Paypal) than those sitting on the sidelines
2) PP+GK+DL accounts for about 750k/1.135m, or 66% of the money pledged. This stretch goal literally didn't really benefit any of them directly.

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 03:16 PM
The problem with that being most of the other $250 bonuses don't stack.

Why is that a problem? Just choose any other tier.

zaku
05-22-2013, 03:16 PM
Easiest thing they could have done without making anyone (of the large pledge tiers) angry: All $250+ tiers get an additional $250 tier bonus of their choice. You are still limited to 4 free weekly drafts.

Grand Kings get this benefit twice.
DKs+ get it four times.

Give the lower tiers X free drafts, where X = $Pledge / 10.

You just made everyone that stacked 4pp already really upset.

Blitz1775
05-22-2013, 03:17 PM
I honestly don't find it big deal since the imbalance is so great (currently 2x pro myself). However if they wanted to add something to appease the masses maybe add allowed to enter an tournament once a month admission free (for 1yr, could be life, but that would just be repeating the situation). Since we are suppose to be the pvp tier, having the option play a constructed format besides just draft for a year would do a lot to appease the masses

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 03:17 PM
You just made everyone that stacked 4pp already really upset.

Huh? They can do any of the following:
- Drop two PPs, lowering the pledge by $500, but get the same benefit for weekly drafts
- Make two separate accounts,
- Get 4x Collector
- Get GK for free.
- Some combination of the above

Why the hell would they be upset about that?

Fireblast
05-22-2013, 03:18 PM
Don't think anyone is saying that closing the gap between the tiers is a bad idea. People are complaining about the way it was done, which some may feel lacks elegance. In particular, making Pro Tier the worst tier for the first year of the games life seems particularly bad. Something interesting and unique to each of the tiers would have been a better move.

I'll have 3 drafts a week, still best

~

gilby123
05-22-2013, 03:19 PM
I am underwhelmed. They're all good things, and the move to improve the non-pro $250 tiers is much needed. The problem is that I don't own (nor will I acquire) a tablet anytime in the foreseeable future (though tablet support is good for the game as a whole), and I am pledged as a Grand King. Less than a third of the 960k stretch goal isn't really all that "legendary" for me.

"FOR ME" is the key there. Don't underestimate how mobile/tablet support will boost game base, meaning that they'll have more money and players, meaning more to use to directly improve your game and experience over time. I get it's not an immediate prize, but it will result in a direct benefit to you in the long run.

ForgedSol
05-22-2013, 03:19 PM
Effectively they turned off the PP tiers perk for a year and for a Legendary stretch goal at that. Also, you can't say that $250 isn't a sizable commitment to the game, so people who are passionate about this game just saw there pledge perk negated. I can understand why people are upset.

That's just crazy talk. If instead of giving the other tiers a year of drafts, and instead didn't turn on the free draft for the Pro Tiers until a year after launch as a way to balance the tiers, then that would be something to be up an arms about. But this scenario is not that. Seriously, if you guys need to feel how good the tiers are relative to other people, just think of all the people that are going to join after the kickstarter is over.

jai151
05-22-2013, 03:19 PM
You are a better man (or woman) than I. There is a part of me that wants to be a special snowflake, and that, more than anything else, is what took the hit this update. That said, I'll (probably) get over it.

Man =)

And I mean, I can see where other people are getting upset. $350ish of product is a big deal. But the thing is my bonus is already technically infinite. 156 packs worth of cards a year, spanning every set, for the life of the game. And that's assuming I never win a single prize.

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 03:20 PM
I'll have 3 drafts a week, still best

~

Only because you multipledged.

It's single PP/GK pledges that lose the most relative value.

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 03:20 PM
Man =)

And I mean, I can see where other people are getting upset. $350ish of product is a big deal. But the thing is my bonus is already technically infinite. 156 packs worth of cards a year, spanning every set, for the life of the game. And that's assuming I never win a single prize.

That's also assuming they don't have stuff like free weekly drafts on New Year's Eve (doesn't stack with Pro Player) or something similar.

ForgedSol
05-22-2013, 03:22 PM
Huh? They can do any of the following:
- Drop two PPs, lowering the pledge by $500, but get the same benefit for weekly drafts
- Make two separate accounts,
- Get 4x Collector
- Get GK for free.
- Some combination of the above

Why the hell would they be upset about that?

He was joking. You've effectively done the same thing that Cryptozoic did to the Pro Tiers and up. Created a bonus that was "nerfed" so they (the four stackers) couldn't enjoy it even though they got in early and pledged a lot of money. You created the same exact scenario you're against, just moved the line.

Garod
05-22-2013, 03:23 PM
btw anyone in it for the money and a quick sale just got a big bonus because they can buy the tiers now with a separate email addresses and then re-sell them at launch. The addition of 1 year free draft only means they can add another 364$ perceived value to whatever they are trying to sell. They aren't going to merge accounts.

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 03:23 PM
"FOR ME" is the key there. Don't underestimate how mobile/tablet support will boost game base, meaning that they'll have more money and players, meaning more to use to directly improve your game and experience over time. I get it's not an immediate prize, but it will result in a direct benefit to you in the long run.

No, it's really an immediate prize.
From a business standpoint, if it was profitable, Cryptozoic would have reason to pursue mobile appspace regardless of whether or not the Stretch Goal is reached.

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 03:25 PM
He was joking. You've effectively done the same thing that Cryptozoic did to the Pro Tiers and up. Created a bonus that was "nerfed" so they (the four stackers) couldn't enjoy it even though they got in early and pledged a lot of money. You created the same exact scenario you're against, just moved the line.

I see your point, but I completely disagree.
1) Multipledgers get the same benefit as everyone else. (Just on two accounts.)
2) Multipledgers are a MUCH smaller percentage than single-pledgers.

jai151
05-22-2013, 03:25 PM
That's also assuming they don't have stuff like free weekly drafts on New Year's Eve (doesn't stack with Pro Player) or something similar.

How would you have free weekly drafts on a day? =P

First of all, if they do have some free tournaments, good for them. It means they've got the base to afford to.

But even if they did the free tournament and decided for whatever reason to exclude us, I still have 51 more drafts than anyone else (well, technically 103).

Daer
05-22-2013, 03:25 PM
The reactions of some people since the update are making youtube commenters look like geniuses.

zaku
05-22-2013, 03:26 PM
He was joking. You've effectively done the same thing that Cryptozoic did to the Pro Tiers and up. Created a bonus that was "nerfed" so they (the four stackers) couldn't enjoy it even though they got in early and pledged a lot of money. You created the same exact scenario you're against, just moved the line.

Couldn't put it better myself, ForgedSol =)

Stok3d
05-22-2013, 03:27 PM
Good final stretch. We'll hit the 1.5 mil and I'm okay with them putting some added value in tiers I don't have. Well done.

fido_one
05-22-2013, 03:29 PM
The original tiers could have been balanced better as well

I have no problem with the re-balancing... but: for a game ALL about balance, and for rewards all about being better than a balance that will exist in set 1, 2, 3 and infinity, I do have a wee amount of concern.

DeusPhasmatis
05-22-2013, 03:29 PM
He was joking. You've effectively done the same thing that Cryptozoic did to the Pro Tiers and up. Created a bonus that was "nerfed" so they (the four stackers) couldn't enjoy it even though they got in early and pledged a lot of money. You created the same exact scenario you're against, just moved the line.

But they'd get compensated for multi-pledging Pro tiers. How is the opportunity to pick up exclusive account flags (like 100% more dungeon drops) equivalent to a bonus that they literally get nothing from? Hell, even someone who quad stacks Grand Kings would benefit from being able to stack even more Collector bonuses.

gilby123
05-22-2013, 03:32 PM
No, it's really an immediate prize.
From a business standpoint, if it was profitable, Cryptozoic would have reason to pursue mobile appspace regardless of whether or not the Stretch Goal is reached.

Yes and no. Mobile dev for something like this still takes time and wouldn't surprise me if mobile support didn't appear for 6mo-1 year in. They'd likely need additional servers and the app itself will take time to develop (I'm in mobile dev and would love to work on it, but alas, I work on business apps). My guess, for a solid app, probably 3-6 months of dev at a minimum.

So yes, the promise of tablet support is an immediate windfall, but actually making that happen and the other benefits I described will take time to come to fruition.

ForgedSol
05-22-2013, 03:33 PM
But they'd get compensated for multi-pledging Pro tiers. How is the opportunity to pick up exclusive account flags (like 100% more dungeon drops) equivalent to a bonus that they literally get nothing from? Hell, even someone who quad stacks Grand Kings would benefit from being able to stack even more Collector bonuses.

That assuming they care anything at all about PvE and/or didn't multi-pledge a mix of tiers already. In those cases it mirrors the "We're just getting some extra packs. These are worthless" part of the complaint that people are making. Still same scenario. Just move the line some more.

Merir
05-22-2013, 03:33 PM
The reactions of some people since the update are making youtube commenters look like geniuses.

Well, this is how I see it. When first creating the kickstarter and the pledge tiers, they took five different bundles and slapped a 250$ tag on them, essentially saying 'these are all of equal value'. Now obviously they were wrong, but that was their judgement.

Then, for the legendary, final stretchgoal, they decide to add 364$ of value to four out of those five tiers - the value added is 1.5x the original cost of those tiers! One of those five bundles, on the other hand, had 7,5$ worth of value added. That makes me sad.

fido_one
05-22-2013, 03:33 PM
i stopped reading this when i realized you are a womanizer.

..i am too. Let's go out for drinks sometime!

gold

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 03:34 PM
Yes and no. Mobile dev for something like this still takes time and wouldn't surprise me if mobile support didn't appear for 6mo-1 year in. They'd likely need additional servers and the app itself will take time to develop (I'm in mobile dev and would love to work on it, but alas, I work on business apps). My guess, for a solid app, probably 3-6 months of dev at a minimum.

So yes, the promise of tablet support is an immediate windfall, but actually making that happen and the other benefits I described will take time to come to fruition.

Depends on the game engine they are using. Unity, for example, actually just has one editor and publishes to each of the different platforms. Of course they would have to debug all the versions and support them separately, but that's not as big of an issue as development.

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 03:37 PM
That assuming they care anything at all about PvE and/or didn't multi-pledge a mix of tiers already. In those cases it mirrors the "We're just getting some extra packs. These are worthless" part of the complaint that people are making. Still same scenario. Just move the line some more.

So basically it'd clear your logic if you just removed the limit on 4 drafts/week?

Ebynfel
05-22-2013, 03:38 PM
Yes and no. Mobile dev for something like this still takes time and wouldn't surprise me if mobile support didn't appear for 6mo-1 year in. They'd likely need additional servers and the app itself will take time to develop (I'm in mobile dev and would love to work on it, but alas, I work on business apps). My guess, for a solid app, probably 3-6 months of dev at a minimum.

So yes, the promise of tablet support is an immediate windfall, but actually making that happen and the other benefits I described will take time to come to fruition.

They've already stated that the game is built fro mthe ground up, as it stands, with this in mind for fast development of the mobile apps.

arastor
05-22-2013, 03:38 PM
No, it's really an immediate prize.
From a business standpoint, if it was profitable, Cryptozoic would have reason to pursue mobile appspace regardless of whether or not the Stretch Goal is reached.

...*smacks forehead* How did I even miss something as obvious as that.

So this stretch goal in summary:
A) Offers mobile support that they would offer anyway if it was profitable
and
B)Pumps up the non- Pro Tier $250 slots making them more profitable for Crypto (because they are certainly not profitable if they don't move)?

All while making it look like they are giving us stuff (edit: which of course they actually are in the case of the 250 slots)? Now that is some impressive business sense!

(I should note: I'm not being sarcastic. I'm actually impressed.)

ForgedSol
05-22-2013, 03:40 PM
So basically it'd clear your logic if you just removed the limit on 4 drafts/week?

Pretty much, yeah. Although in that case, I think Cryptozoic would have just given all $250 tiers and up +1 additional draft per week with no restrictions, rather than choose a full add-on tier.

gilby123
05-22-2013, 03:40 PM
Well, this is how I see it. When first creating the kickstarter and the pledge tiers, they took five different bundles and slapped a 250$ tag on them, essentially saying 'these are all of equal value'. Now obviously they were wrong, but that was their judgement.

Then, for the legendary, final stretchgoal, they decide to add 364$ of value to four out of those five tiers - the value added is 0.5x the original cost of those tiers! One of those five bundles, on the other hand, had 7,5$ worth of value added. That makes me sad.

I think they'd admit the initial $250 offerings needed a bit more balance (and people have been telling them since it started, seemingly). When they adjust to bring up the value of the others, then people complain more. I get the issue (and, as a GK, am effected), but if people are purely looking at this from a "What am I personally getting," they're missing out the factoring in of the additional players this move could bring in, particularly as the KS rolls down the final stretch.

Overall, I just don't see how, if I was already in one of the only tiers that will pay me off over time, how I can get upset by them bumping the others to garner more money and players to make the game better. So it takes me a bit longer for it to pay off. Oh well. If those "hurt" by this are that bothered, switch to a different tier.

gilby123
05-22-2013, 03:43 PM
Depends on the game engine they are using. Unity, for example, actually just has one editor and publishes to each of the different platforms. Of course they would have to debug all the versions and support them separately, but that's not as big of an issue as development.

Sure, but if there's one thing I've learned from being in QA, NOTHING goes as planned/smoothly. It can go better, but there's always hiccups, particularly (I've found) on Android dev. Besides, I think goal one for them has to be solid PC rollout. The only way they could run in parallel is hire more or contract it out :p

Fireblast
05-22-2013, 03:44 PM
The thing is, as is there were no incentiving Tiers to back anymore.
They had two choices :
- Bump noPP tiers to get income, tablet support, and new backers
- Do nothing and stop at $1.1M : no tablet, no more rewards.

~

nearlysober
05-22-2013, 03:44 PM
People are actually crying because their already over powered Pro Package didn't get as big as an update as the other kids?

Guess we've reached WoW forum level of civility faster than I anticipated.

Guess what? We all get a bonus from this. We get MORE PLAYERS.

Because it's not a fraction of the forum base gobbling up 4x rewards and blocking out new individuals.
Because it's getting more people to invest in Kick Starter
Because it will be in mobile app stores at launch, to a wider audience.

Quit yer crying. Or drop your Pro tier, someone else will take it I'm sure.

DeusPhasmatis
05-22-2013, 03:46 PM
That assuming they care anything at all about PvE and/or didn't multi-pledge a mix of tiers already. In those cases it falls under the "We're just getting some extra packs. These are worthless" part of the complaint. Still same scenario. Just move the line some more.

So your assertion is that there are people who: Don't care about PvE or already have all the PvE bonuses they want; don't care about PvP alternate art or already have all the ones they want; don't care about trying to play the card market with limited exclusive cards; don't care about saving money by reducing their number of pledges to achieve the "same" benefit; and are upset that other people are getting things.

It's kinda hard to give people who already have everything they want something more.

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 03:46 PM
Sure, but if there's one thing I've learned from being in QA, NOTHING goes as planned/smoothly. It can go better, but there's always hiccups, particularly (I've found) on Android dev. Besides, I think goal one for them has to be solid PC rollout. The only way they could run in parallel is hire more or contract it out :p

Cryptozoic has in-house app developers who were working on a different product.

Merir
05-22-2013, 03:47 PM
if people are purely looking at this from a "What am I personally getting," they're missing out the factoring in of the additional players this move could bring in, particularly as the KS rolls down the final stretch.

I know what you're saying, and in a sense I agree. Still, I can't help the fact that the way in which this was done leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Parallax
05-22-2013, 03:48 PM
The part of all this that amuses me the most was the lack of outcry of the relative devaluing for the Collector tier at the 660K stretch goal compared to the fuss people are making now.

neonovas
05-22-2013, 03:48 PM
...*smacks forehead* How did I even miss something as obvious as that.

So this stretch goal in summary:
A) Offers mobile support that they would offer anyway if it was profitable
and
B)Pumps up the non- Pro Tier $250 slots making them more profitable for Crypto (because they are certainly not profitable if they don't move)?

All while making it look like they are giving us stuff (edit: which of course they actually are in the case of the 250 slots)? Now that is some impressive business sense!

(I should note: I'm not being sarcastic. I'm actually impressed.)

I believe they've mentioned that basically all of their stretch goals were future plans anyway but they are using the extra funding to have them in the game at release instead of months or years down the road. I think tablet support is also a great goal since not only are they going to make more money, it means a larger player base for everyone.

IndigoShade
05-22-2013, 03:49 PM
The part of all this that amuses me the most was the lack of outcry of the relative devaluing for the Collector tier at the 660K stretch goal compared to the fuss people are making now.

You mean the tier that had like 8 backers at the time? Yea, nobody heard those 8 guys.

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 03:50 PM
Guess we've reached WoW forum level of civility faster than I anticipated.

Guess what? We all get a bonus from this. We get MORE PLAYERS.

Because it's not a fraction of the forum base gobbling up 4x rewards and blocking out new individuals.
Because it's getting more people to invest in Kick Starter
Because it will be in mobile app stores at launch, to a wider audience.

Quit yer crying. Or drop your Pro tier, someone else will take it I'm sure.

I don't think you've been deep into the WoW forums, much, recently.

You're making an assumption that this incentive will:
1) Come into effect (i.e. the KS will reach 1.5m)
2) Increase total player count over the previous amounts
3) Mobile Apps wouldn't have been developed without the KS pledges hitting 1.5m

Lochar
05-22-2013, 03:51 PM
The part of all this that amuses me the most was the lack of outcry of the relative devaluing for the Collector tier at the 660K stretch goal compared to the fuss people are making now.

Two thousand people versus fifty-three people.

Two percent of people bitching is ~40 PP/GK versus one Collector.

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 03:51 PM
The part of all this that amuses me the most was the lack of outcry of the relative devaluing for the Collector tier at the 660K stretch goal compared to the fuss people are making now.

Well, according to the more recent info, they also get a second copy of their alternative art cards, so they honestly have nothing to complain about...?

arastor
05-22-2013, 03:52 PM
I believe they've mentioned that basically all of their stretch goals were future plans anyway but they are using the extra funding to have them in the game at release instead of months or years down the road. I think tablet support is also a great goal since not only are they going to make more money, it means a larger player base for everyone.

Did they? I must have missed that somehow. That totally explains why they were talking about having already experimented with AIDA in a past update, which confused the heck out of me at the time. Fair enough! Consider me enlightened!

Parallax
05-22-2013, 03:52 PM
Two thousand people versus fifty-three people.

Two percent of people bitching is ~40 PP/GK versus one Collector.

One thousand and fifty-three people!

Garod
05-22-2013, 03:53 PM
Just in comparison how do you think the Early Bird King's would feel if you suddenly gave an additional 60 boosters to the normal King tier. I mean it's unbalanced since they are paying 30$ more, that's unfair too isn't it?

Lochar
05-22-2013, 03:56 PM
One thousand and fifty-three people!

Honestly I assumed that most of the Grand Kings were picking it up for the getting a late PP or an overall benefit, not the Collector specifically.

Tinuvas
05-22-2013, 04:19 PM
You know, there's a story in the Bible that would fit here...

Anyway, Everyone that has PP at the moment, nothing has changed. You put up x dollars with the understanding that you were getting y in return. That hasn't changed. The only reason to be upset is if you feel that this is a zero sum situation and that more for others = less for you, which is the opposite of reality. More for others = MORE for you. More players to play against, more fun to be had by all, etc. Your pledge hasn't changed. To NOT be excited about the neat things happening to others here is the definition of pride, and in the worst way.

This from a GK+PP, which according to some was 'shafted' worst by the announcement. I'm looking to pick up ANOTHER PP if I can at all. I'm as excited as anything. This game is going to be awesome! I'm trying to get my wife to go Crawler too, as I think she would love a few drafts for awhile...

ForgedSol
05-22-2013, 04:23 PM
Just in comparison how do you think the Early Bird King's would feel if you suddenly gave an additional 60 boosters to the normal King tier. I mean it's unbalanced since they are paying 30$ more, that's unfair too isn't it?

That's a completely different situation because Early Bird King is supposed to equal King. They are supposed to be exactly the same in rewards, but have a different price. That's what Early Bird in kickstarter has come to mean.

Here, it's the opposite. The 5 tiers are supposed to be the same price, but have different rewards.

dogmod
05-22-2013, 04:28 PM
DADDY HOW COULD YOU GIVE SOMETHING TO SOMEONE ELSE THAT YOU ARE ALSO GIVING TO ME!!! THATS NOT FAAAAAIIIIIIRRRRRRR!!!!!

And the funny thing is that you can still switch into ANY of these other tiers of it was that "unfair"...

Some people

BigDog
05-22-2013, 04:30 PM
I upgraded from Pro Tier to Grand King. Having the other tiers gain this amount doesn't disturb me in the least. They now at least feel like they give immediately apparent value approaching Pro Tier but only for 1 year. The issue was how to correct the disparity in perceived value between the tiers and instead of taking away from Pro Tier, they added to the other tiers. Your value hasn't changed at all but you didn't get buffed because the tier was already op.

IndigoShade
05-22-2013, 04:33 PM
I could still see how someone with just a single Pro tier pledge could feel how their tier is now the worst of the $250's for the first year. As a filthy tier stacker I don't feel too upset since it's still the only way to have 2 "free" drafts (a term that irks me since it was far from free :mad:)

Qorsair
05-22-2013, 04:36 PM
I upgraded from Pro Tier to Grand King. Having the other tiers gain this amount doesn't disturb me in the least. They now at least feel like they give immediately apparent value approaching Pro Tier but only for 1 year. The issue was how to correct the disparity in perceived value between the tiers and instead of taking away from Pro Tier, they added to the other tiers. Your value hasn't changed at all but you didn't get buffed because the tier was already op.

I feel the same way. They did a great job balancing this, regardless of what a very vocal minority think.
For me, this inspires confidence in their ability to balance the game as we run into mechanics that may need to be tweaked.

Garod
05-22-2013, 04:36 PM
@dogmond if you think comments like that are going to change minds or get people to calm down you are kidding yourself... honestly you are part of the problem and comments like that only annoy people and make them yell louder rather than making constructive posts like mentioned below.

@Tinuvas & Forged hmm been thinking about the comments you guys made and you are right. I guess it was just a tad disappointing seeing that last stretch goal and I was hoping for something which would indeed kind of be legendary for everyone. I think I'll just have a good sleep and everything will look better in the morning. I guess I had simply expected something different from the last update, and I'm not talking about more stuff. Honestly it's one of the things I didn't like about most of the stretch goals is that it didn't really seem like the money was being put to amazing updates and things which would be totally new and innovative.
So thanks for talking sense, especially the Zero sum comment.

dogmod
05-22-2013, 04:38 PM
@dogmond if you think comments like that are going to change minds or get people to calm down you are kidding yourself... honestly you are part of the problem and comments like that only annoy people and make them yell louder rather than making constructive posts like mentioned below.

@Tinuvas & Forged hmm been thinking about the comments you guys made and you are right. I guess it was just a tad disappointing seeing that last stretch goal and I was hoping for something which would indeed kind of be legendary for everyone. I think I'll just have a good sleep and everything will look better in the morning. I guess I had simply expected something different from the last update, and I'm not talking about more stuff. Honestly it's one of the things I didn't like about most of the stretch goals is that it didn't really seem like the money was being put to amazing updates and things which would be totally new and innovative.

You are right... +spottingthecountertrolltrolling

ramseytheory
05-22-2013, 04:41 PM
I pledged Grand King early on, largely because I couldn't decide between Pro Player and Dungeon Crawler, and I literally do not understand how anyone could be mad about this who hasn't already sent money via Paypal (and if any of the people I've heard complaining have done then they haven't mentioned it). To take Garod's example: if I'd got an Early Bird King and King suddenly got an additional 60 boosters, ignoring the fact that treating early bird tiers differently breaks Kickstarter convention, my response would be to either

a) Stick at Early Bird King.
or b) Move to King.

In neither case would I be remotely angry. My situation hasn't magically been made worse. My situation has stayed exactly the same - I've just gained another option. When a trash rare in Set 1 becomes a lynchpin of constructed on the release of Set 3, are people going to complain about that as well? Because this seems like exactly the same situation to me - you have a bunch of options, some that were previously obviously sub-par have been improved, and you can change your choice at any time.

The cynic in me wonders if some people thought that by taking Pro Player or Grand King they somehow "won", by spotting the best choice before everyone else, and giving "prizes" (better choices) to other people is devaluing that victory. I'd rather not believe that, though...

(And if we're completely honest, my first reaction was "excellent, more draft opponents". Pros and Grand Kings do benefit from this, albeit indirectly.)

gutock
05-22-2013, 04:45 PM
As someone with 2 PT's, I am excited over getting Set 2 packs.

Oh wait, I'm supposed to be angry at more drafts for more people...

You really can't please them all.

Barov
05-22-2013, 04:46 PM
I could still see how someone with just a single Pro tier pledge could feel how their tier is now the worst of the $250's for the first year. As a filthy tier stacker I don't feel too upset since it's still the only way to have 2 "free" drafts (a term that irks me since it was far from free :mad:)

I only have a single Pro tier: am I upset I don't get anything extra? A little....but I still feel the Pro tier is better for my play style than the others, I will bank on playing the game longer than a year (cause honestly if I didn't plan to play past a year I wouldn't have payed $250 in the first place)

Chance
05-22-2013, 04:54 PM
Guys you need to settle down, arguing heatedly on either side doesn't help. People feel bad because up until now Crypt has made people feel entitled to something, now that they didn't get a perk when everyone else did it makes them feel bad. Those that missed out on the PP and GK feel some sort of retribution or otherwise stoked that the other tiers are balanced which is great but it is not necessary to turn into that guy.

In short Crypt isn't out to get anyone or fuck anyone, they are simply leveling out things with a great long term business plan. You gets need to realize that Beta is planned for 1 year, that means a large number of people are going to have 1 year of free drafting which is fucking awesome for testing.

If more people PLAY this game for longer then A YEAR PP and GK still come out on top and with this bonus to the other tiers it is much more likely to be the case! THING LONG TERM HERE PEOPLE

I have GK + PP and could not be more happy with this Update GJ CRYPT!

Genosaurer
05-22-2013, 05:05 PM
Cory stated he hopes to RELEASE the game before end of the year. March at the latest. So there is no one year beta. The free draft for all feels (to some) like their teir pledge is being given to everyone else who didn't get his teir. At the same time, he isn't getting any of theirs.

thereck
05-22-2013, 05:05 PM
I was extremely disappointed at this being a pvp pledger. I'll keep my PvP place holder for now, and see if they fix the pvp tier. If they do, I can happily keep my pledge. If they don't, I'll drop it. I'm sure Cryptozoic will be happy with the type of customers they've chosen to show support for, and I'll be happy supporting a company that I feel values me as a customer.

ramseytheory
05-22-2013, 05:13 PM
I was extremely disappointed at this being a pvp pledger. Just as I was disappointed with Apple when it devalued early backers for it's iPhone, and later it's iPad 3. I'll keep my PvP place holder for now, and see if they fix the pvp tier. If they do, I can happily keep my pledge. If they don't, I'll drop it. I'm sure Cryptozoic will be happy with the type of customers they've chosen to show support for, and I'll be happy supporting a company that I feel values me as a customer.

But... why? When Apple devalued early backers for the iPhone, they did so by massively dropping the price after people had already paid. That's punishing people for being early adopters, by tricking them into an objectively far worse deal than everyone else with no way to back out. If you think Pro Player is now a worse tier than (say) Collector, which seems to be a minority view even among Pro Player backers, literally all you have to do is switch to Collector. It doesn't even cost you any money. At its absolute worst, it is giving you the chance at a better deal than you would previously have got.

gilby123
05-22-2013, 05:17 PM
I was extremely disappointed at this being a pvp pledger. Just as I was disappointed with Apple when it devalued early backers for it's iPhone, and later it's iPad 3. I'll keep my PvP place holder for now, and see if they fix the pvp tier. If they do, I can happily keep my pledge. If they don't, I'll drop it. I'm sure Cryptozoic will be happy with the type of customers they've chosen to show support for, and I'll be happy supporting a company that I feel values me as a customer.

Sooo, you mean all their customers, since all they've done stretch after stretch is tack on to the stuff you pledged for. People don't seem to get it is BONUS. They don't have to give you anything extra at all. If you can't look at the mountain you started with and the second of additional stuff and be happy or satisfied they care about ALL players, then please leave. I figure your PP spot will remain open >1 minute before getting taken by someone.

nearlysober
05-22-2013, 05:25 PM
I'll keep my PvP place holder for now, and see if they fix the pvp tier. If they do, I can happily keep my pledge. If they don't, I'll drop it.
Yeah... your $250 pledge that gets you $350 in starter boosters plus $364 dollars in value every year for the life of the game is pretty terrible. You should drop it and watch it sit on the market forever.

That'll teach 'em!

Boojum
05-22-2013, 05:28 PM
All the other $250 tiers clearly needed a big boost, and I think their overall value is probably in the right ballpark now to be competitive with Pro, which should help keep the momentum from dropping too much. However, this update could have been handled better.

1. Having acknowledged that they screwed up in balancing the tiers, it seems kind of odd to only offer the fix as a stretch goal.
2. In terms of uniqueness and flavor, it would have been nice if they could have added value to the other tiers by enhancing what they're supposed to be good at rather than tacking on a PvP benefit to the PvE tiers. Or at least boosted them in ways other than a complete, albeit temporary, carbon copy of Pro (maybe 1 draft per month for life).
3. I still think Pro is the best overall value and plan to keep mine. But it does rankle a bit to know that for the entire first year, the other tiers get everything I do plus more. (Not really counting the tournament since it's such a long shot to win it. This would be a moot point if it turns out that there are substantial prizes for participation or mid-tier showings.)
4. The stretch goal is heavily weighted toward people who haven't pledged above King yet, and those who are interested in the game but want to play on tablet rather than PC. That's great, and necessary to keep expanding the game, and I fully support it. But at the same time, PP and GK represent those who committed early, planned to play on PC, raised 2/3 of the pledge money so far, and waited with bated breath for the legendary goal to finally be revealed. After all that buildup and suspense, to have the upshot be "here's a few extra packs" is nice and all, but a bit of an anticlimax.

But whatever. It would have been nice to be thrown some token gesture (obviously one much smaller than the other tiers), but in the long run, I'd rather have things that make the game as a whole healthier and bring in more players.

I'll probably release my GK and stick with EBK + PP.

ratceo
05-22-2013, 05:38 PM
15 packs as a legendary unlock? It is not hard to see how underwhelming this is.

Sanik
05-22-2013, 05:38 PM
Quick Disclaimer: I don't work on the Kickstarter tiers and this is my speculation based on feedback I've seen coming in.

I think the change to some of the $250 tiers may be getting viewed in the wrong light. A lot of people felt like the correct choice of the $250 tiers was the Pro Player. There's obviously been a lot of speculation and number crunching to distill the best possible value from the different pledge levels, and the Pro Player breaks down into a very neat dollar value to time played ratio. The others do not.

This change now allows the Pro Player pledges to explore the other $250 options with substantially less risk (they can keep their value perk, albeit a limited incarnation). I don't think anyone can really argue that a yearlong perk is better or even comparable to a lifetime perk. If you still don't find those other tiers' perks attractive, stick with Pro Player. If you've been on the fence about them, maybe this gives you the confidence to make the switch. The biggest thing here is that this change allows everyone more choice without feeling like they've chosen poorly.

It's important to point out that no one's locked into their tiers yet. Pro Players that feel uncertain or less special, remember that you have the power. You've locked the most sought after tier at that level and it's your choice to trade it in for a different one. That's still makes you all pretty special!

thereck
05-22-2013, 05:41 PM
it's really just a matter of customer service. They crafted something I was excited about, I got on early, I saw my initial investment increase in value, and got more excited. This is all a constructed response, planned out ahead of time by the company running the kickstarter, and is how these mega kickstarters work on a very base level.

I'm very happy the money isn't spent, that's why I'm not angry in the least. But, simply changing tiers isn't going to bring back that feeling, they've taken that away.

They have chosen to relatively devalue early adopters to push the initial investment higher, I get that.

If they don't want to comp my meal for devaluing my experience, that's fine because I don't have to pay. I know the table will be filled by a 5x pro backer. If they would prefer his increased initial investment to a hard core early adopter and his similar minded friend group, that's their choice as well. One is worth more to them then the other as an investment, but I'm sure they know that. That's why companies that do this sort of thing normally do something in response. re: Nintendo 3ds

WWKnight
05-22-2013, 05:42 PM
I was initially jaded. Still am, to some degree. As a Dragon + Grand King + Pro backer, this legendary stretch means I get 45 set 2 boosters. Woo. Not a lot considering the $1750 investment.

Now, my thoughts on this were that the final BIG stretch goal should be for everyone. Instead, its just for the people who havent jumped on board yet. I feel as if I am left out here, as the big reward speficially flips the finger to the three tiers I have selected.

And on the other hand, I honestly dont think I would have cared half as much if the outline wasnt red. If it wasnt hyped to be this big awesome thing. Without an iPad or mobile device, and without a tier that benefits from this goal, I just feel like I have been looking forward to nothing for the past 4 days, and I feel cheated in that respect.

Congrats to everyone else who gets a years worth of free draft though :)

nearlysober
05-22-2013, 05:42 PM
Then drop two of the rewards. I'd rather have 2 more new community members & future players than people gobbling up all the good reward tiers & being upset about it.

Believe it or not... this entire kickstarter is not all about you.

Also interesting bit of crunching the Kickstarter numbers because I was bored and curious...

From base level up to Grand King (didn't go higher because those have "priceless" rewards), just looking at the amount of boosters given out and free tournament entries... not looking at any other bonuses.
After factoring out the money being taken in: CZE is giving away over $675,000 worth of product at launch, plus over $725,000 per year recurring of free drafts.

dogmod
05-22-2013, 05:43 PM
it's really just a matter of customer service. They crafted something I was excited about, I got on early, I saw my initial investment increase in value, and got more excited. This is all a constructed response, planned out ahead of time by the company running the kickstarter, and is how these mega kickstarters work on a very base level.

I'm very happy the money isn't spent, that's why I'm not angry in the least. But, simply changing tiers isn't going to bring back that feeling, they've taken that away.

They have chosen to relatively devalue early adopters to push the initial investment higher, I get that.

If they don't want to comp my meal for devaluing my experience, that's fine because I don't have to pay. I know the table will be filled by a 5x pro backer. If they would prefer his increased initial investment to a hard core early adopter and his similar minded friend group, that's their choice as well. One is worth more to them then the other as an investment, but I'm sure they know that. That's why companies that do this sort of thing normally do something in response. re: Nintendo 3ds

Lol... I think the keyword in the whole thing was "relative"

thereck
05-22-2013, 05:43 PM
and though I speak for myself, I'm very sure that their is a certain customer set that I represent.

Madican
05-22-2013, 05:44 PM
I'm actually kind of disappointed in this final reveal. If the other tiers get a free draft a week for a year, can't the PP tier get some PvE bonuses for a time? Speaking as someone who only has the single pledge to PP, it feels like we were excluded from what was supposed to be the big goal.

thereck
05-22-2013, 05:44 PM
the keyword in all decisions is relative; economics!

WWKnight
05-22-2013, 05:44 PM
Quick Disclaimer: I don't work on the Kickstarter tiers and this is my speculation based on feedback I've seen coming in.

I think the change to some of the $250 tiers may be getting viewed in the wrong light. A lot of people felt like the correct choice of the $250 tiers was the Pro Player. There's obviously been a lot of speculation and number crunching to distill the best possible value from the different pledge levels, and the Pro Player breaks down into a very neat dollar value to time played ratio. The others do not.

This change now allows the Pro Player pledges to explore the other $250 options with substantially less risk (they can keep their value perk, albeit a limited incarnation). I don't think anyone can really argue that a yearlong perk is better or even comparable to a lifetime perk. If you still don't find those other tiers' perks attractive, stick with Pro Player. If you've been on the fence about them, maybe this gives you the confidence to make the switch. The biggest thing here is that this change allows everyone more choice without feeling like they've chosen poorly.

It's important to point out that no one's locked into their tiers yet. Pro Players that feel uncertain or less special, remember that you have the power. You've locked the most sought after tier at that level and it's your choice to trade it in for a different one. That's still makes you all pretty special!

Really great response. Loved the closing. Would read again.

gilby123
05-22-2013, 05:45 PM
it's really just a matter of customer service. They crafted something I was excited about, I got on early, I saw my initial investment increase in value, and got more excited. This is all a constructed response, planned out ahead of time by the company running the kickstarter, and is how these mega kickstarters work on a very base level.

I'm very happy the money isn't spent, that's why I'm not angry in the least. But, simply changing tiers isn't going to bring back that feeling, they've taken that away.

They have chosen to relatively devalue early adopters to push the initial investment higher, I get that.

If they don't want to comp my meal for devaluing my experience, that's fine because I don't have to pay. I know the table will be filled by a 5x pro backer. If they would prefer his increased initial investment to a hard core early adopter and his similar minded friend group, that's their choice as well. One is worth more to them then the other as an investment, but I'm sure they know that. That's why companies that do this sort of thing normally do something in response. re: Nintendo 3ds

But they haven't taken anything from you. I simply do not understand this feeling that PP is now somehow different. Your rewards have never changed. Just because your neighbor gets a new car doesn't mean yours is now worthless. The value of your car remains exactly the same. If YOU devalue your own car, then that's on you, not them.

Ditsch
05-22-2013, 05:46 PM
@Sanik Small side note, if they did pledge through paypal they are locked. I wait and see what they will tell me about this "fix" through their "legendary" stretch goal. :) Thank you for you view on it.

nearlysober
05-22-2013, 05:47 PM
When CZE laid out some clarifications & ground rules on combos, they offered to refund anyone via PayPal.
I'm sure they'd do the same here if someone wanted to switch.

Sanik
05-22-2013, 05:50 PM
@Sanik Small side note, if they did pledge through paypal they are locked. I wait and see what they will tell me about this "fix" through their "legendary" stretch goal. :) Thank you for you view on it.

What nearlysober said. Just send us a customer service ticket at cryptozoic.com/contact (http://www.cryptozoic.com/contact). We're happy to sort anything like that out with you on a case by case.

darkwonders
05-22-2013, 05:55 PM
I was initially jaded. Still am, to some degree. As a Dragon + Grand King + Pro backer, this legendary stretch means I get 45 set 2 boosters. Woo. Not a lot considering the $1750 investment.

Now, my thoughts on this were that the final BIG stretch goal should be for everyone. Instead, its just for the people who havent jumped on board yet. I feel as if I am left out here, as the big reward speficially flips the finger to the three tiers I have selected.

And on the other hand, I honestly dont think I would have cared half as much if the outline wasnt red. If it wasnt hyped to be this big awesome thing. Without an iPad or mobile device, and without a tier that benefits from this goal, I just feel like I have been looking forward to nothing for the past 4 days, and I feel cheated in that respect.

Congrats to everyone else who gets a years worth of free draft though :)

but you already receive 100 set 2 boosters from a previous stretch goal...

thereck
05-22-2013, 05:56 PM
Yeah... your $250 pledge that gets you $350 in starter boosters plus $364 dollars in value every year for the life of the game is pretty terrible. You should drop it and watch it sit on the market forever.

That'll teach 'em!

Yes, the possible abandonment by some of their hard core early adopting whales who tend to be long term customers and trend setters that attract new customers is certainly worth it because someone will buy their slot so that they can sell on the secondary market, which they, crypto, will only ever see marginal returns for.

Badmoonz
05-22-2013, 05:56 PM
I'm excited for this change. I would have went after the pro-player tier if it was available, but now I will definitely be upgrading.

Refugee
05-22-2013, 05:57 PM
I'm getting a little irritated by this argument people keep putting forth. I'm quoting nearlysober here but I've seen it a few times.

"Then drop two of the rewards. I'd rather have 2 more new community members & future players than people gobbling up all the good reward tiers & being upset about it."

How does this even make sense? Do people believe that others are discovering the game (which you can play for FREE if you so desire) and saying "oh, I'd play this but... I can't get a draft a week for life so I'm just not going to bother." Come on, that argument is pretty ridiculous.

That said, I think the people who are saying that other tiers gaining drafts for a year doesn't hurt pro player and up are correct. The value we're receiving hasn't changed at all. It does sting a bit that all the other 250 tiers get so much more than we do but I certainly don't begrudge them their enjoyment.

nearlysober
05-22-2013, 05:58 PM
Yes, the possible abandonment by some of their hard core early adopting whales who tend to be long term customers and trend setters that attract new customers is certainly worth it because someone will buy their slot so that they can sell on the secondary market, which they, crypto, will only ever see marginal returns for.
So... if you drop it, and someone else snatches it up... they're worse than you?
Got it.

Good thing you got here so early to save the game!


I was initially jaded. Still am, to some degree. As a Dragon + Grand King + Pro backer, this legendary stretch means I get 45 set 2 boosters. Woo. Not a lot considering the $1750 investment. That is an incredibly, incredibly flawed way to look at it.

I don't look at this stretch as me getting 15 Set 2 boosters for my $500 GK "investment" (hah!).
I look at the stretch goal as:
More players, more chance the game will succeed.

ShaolinRaven
05-22-2013, 06:01 PM
As a Grand King weighing in I'm fine with their choice to let the other $250 tiers get a year of draft and not getting anything in the stretch goal that is specific to my tier and higher, maybe some of those PvE players will try drafting out and after that year stay competitive in drafts giving me more people to play with. I also don't think Crypto owes me anything for giving the other tiers a year of what I get for life of the game. I mean the other $250 tiers get $360 value IF they draft every week for one year, after two years I've doubled that, three years into the game I've tripled that. So Grand King and Pro-Player are still great rewards.

Where I was disappointed in the Legendary reveal was that there wasn't any new in game stuff that I could get behind. I will admit disappointment in the fact that the Legendary reveal didn't have anything I was interested in, I don't use a Tablet, I'm already a GK, and 15 set 2 cards is a bit underwhelming when a lower stretch goal already gave us 50.

I was hoping for something huge and epic, didn't have to be exclusive, and it just didn't feel EPIC. I've been waiting for the reveal all this time and it was just..meh.

Though congrats to all the tiers that got buffed and for anyone that uses a tablet, awesome news for you all!

gilby123
05-22-2013, 06:09 PM
Yes, the possible abandonment by some of their hard core early adopting whales who tend to be long term customers and trend setters that attract new customers is certainly worth it because someone will buy their slot so that they can sell on the secondary market, which they, crypto, will only ever see marginal returns for.

Hate to break it to you, but we're all early adopters (kinda by definition on KS). As for whales, so, by that logic, does my GK mean that I'm somehow more important to the long term game success than you? Or you're more important than someone at King? And being the earliest of early means nothing. The 1,000th PP means the same as the first. All it really means is likely someone came to it late or was waiting to see more about the game revealed before committing.

I get it...you play a lot and will on the game. So might someone at Squire. Just because someone isn't jumping in with both feet doesn't mean they won't drop money long term. I know plenty of people that don't KS anything, they prefer to wait until it's out. Doesn't mean they won't be a spender then.

If you're that upset, downgrade or drop your pledge. Honestly, though, part of being an early adopter is saying you got in at ground floor and if something as minor as this irks you to this degree, then just don't pledge. *shrug*

ramseytheory
05-22-2013, 06:10 PM
it's really just a matter of customer service. They crafted something I was excited about, I got on early, I saw my initial investment increase in value, and got more excited. This is all a constructed response, planned out ahead of time by the company running the kickstarter, and is how these mega kickstarters work on a very base level.

I'm very happy the money isn't spent, that's why I'm not angry in the least. But, simply changing tiers isn't going to bring back that feeling, they've taken that away.

They have chosen to relatively devalue early adopters to push the initial investment higher, I get that.

If they don't want to comp my meal for devaluing my experience, that's fine because I don't have to pay. I know the table will be filled by a 5x pro backer. If they would prefer his increased initial investment to a hard core early adopter and his similar minded friend group, that's their choice as well. One is worth more to them then the other as an investment, but I'm sure they know that. That's why companies that do this sort of thing normally do something in response. re: Nintendo 3ds

Why on earth would they plan something this out in advance? They would have got substantially better initial investment by making all tiers equivalent in value to Pro Player from the beginning than starting out with them sub-optimal and turning them into viable choices later. This Kickstarter has been incredibly unusual in sustaining consistent growth - normally a huge proportion of the money comes in the first and last few days, and to maximise that initial money they should have made their $250 tiers equally awesome to begin with. It's much more likely that they messed up, probably by overestimating the value people would place on PVE sight unseen, and that this is their way of fixing it.

Also, I guess backing in the first half of the Kickstarter rather than the second is the requirement to be a "hardcore early adopter" now. Maybe Cryptozoic should give everyone who backed on the first day a special deck sleeve. :p

Willzyx
05-22-2013, 06:19 PM
Without an iPad or mobile device, and without a tier that benefits from this goal

Well, that's not true. A mobile version makes the potential audience for the game much larger. If you don't buy that more players simply = a better experience, think of it this way: you have limited-edition cards in your hand. The more people that play Hex, the more those are worth because the more limited and desirable they become.

Boojum
05-22-2013, 06:20 PM
Hmm, looking back at the update, it doesn't actually specify that tablet support will be in at launch, just that it will happen. I would assume that it is being planned for launch (since they already said it was in the works and it would be a pretty meaningless stretch goal if it just reiterated that plan), but it would be nice to get confirmation.

Talreth
05-22-2013, 06:28 PM
And on the other hand, I honestly dont think I would have cared half as much if the outline wasnt red. If it wasnt hyped to be this big awesome thing. Without an iPad or mobile device, and without a tier that benefits from this goal, I just feel like I have been looking forward to nothing for the past 4 days, and I feel cheated in that respect.


Pretty sure fast forwarding mobile release actually is a big awesome thing. That requires a lot of work and effort and is probably going to take this game to a whole new level with how people play and how many people play. Plus, if you ever get a tablet down the road this benefits you. And it's not like you haven't gotten a whole load of other shit from previous stretch goals.

ForgedSol
05-22-2013, 06:29 PM
I agree that the sooner they can get the game on mobile devices the better. That will massively grow the community, make Hex even more successful, and thus make every lifetime perk worth more.

Madican
05-22-2013, 06:31 PM
Why would I ever get a tablet? For the vast majority of people they use a tablet like they do their phone: to do random crap. They're not productive with it, it's for games and apps and that's it, which isn't at all worth the amount of money for them when I can get a netbook cheaper.

elsimer
05-22-2013, 06:31 PM
just chiming in to say I picked up a Dungeon Crawler tier for my wife (or brother, if my wife doesn't enjoy the game) because of the tablet stretch goal. The draft per week for a year is a nice bonus (I already got myself a PP). Sure I'm just one person, but I also represent a certain demographic. I only have one computer, but several mobile devices including a Nook Color and a tablet device that runs Android. This stretch goal means that we can play together and/or on the go. Hell, depending on how PvE works we can probably group up this way!

stephenhii
05-22-2013, 06:34 PM
If it hits the legendary stretch goal with the contributions largely from the other 250$ tiers.... I can foresee the "LRD" pandemic hitting us in the future cyberworld...

It's called "Look!-Rare-Drafters!"

thereck
05-22-2013, 06:34 PM
you're correct, the value of the 250 tiers was a mistake. The continued daily updates, stretch goals, tier structure, and the way the bonuses have been revealed were not. They are constructed to both give early adopters more and to gradually get smaller adopters to bid higher.

A first day special deck sleeve would be neato, but I wouldn't want to endorse it and then have them make it a pallet swap of the Dragon Lord deck sleeve ;)

WalkTheAgony
05-22-2013, 06:35 PM
I dislike this update and I will most likely back out because as a PP I feel cheated and I don't want to play in a game where the developer use abusive business strategies against the consumer.

thereck
05-22-2013, 06:39 PM
not that the value of the Dragon Lord Exclusive deck sleeve is diminished if you made a pallet swap and gave it away for free.

Lochar
05-22-2013, 06:40 PM
I dislike this update and I will most likely back out because as a PP I feel cheated and I don't want to play in a game where the developer use abusive business strategies against the consumer.

*waves g'bye*

Someone will snipe your PP in a heartbeat. I'll only hope it's not someone multi-pledging so it's someone new.

gilby123
05-22-2013, 06:43 PM
If it hits the legendary stretch goal with the contributions largely from the other 250$ tiers.... I can foresee the "LRD" pandemic hitting us in the future cyberworld...

It's called "Look!-Rare-Drafters!"

And this is different from the first month or so of a new set in most CCG's with the majority of players of all types?

Besides, Not sure I'd care about them taking what would be a 15th of some rare I have anyway. :)

Pezzle
05-22-2013, 06:43 PM
see below!

Pezzle
05-22-2013, 06:45 PM
I dislike this update and I will most likely back out because as a PP I feel cheated and I don't want to play in a game where the developer use abusive business strategies against the consumer.

Are you serious? They did you a favor, you should be thanking them. Your account value might even be greater. You have more people to draft against and when the year is up they start paying for their fix, You get yours freeeeeee foreeeeeeeverrrrrrrrr

Nthanel
05-22-2013, 06:46 PM
I was hoping for something huge and epic, didn't have to be exclusive, and it just didn't feel EPIC. I've been waiting for the reveal all this time and it was just..meh.

This sums it up to me as well. Im just a king and I assumed that the "big reveal" would not include me in a major way. I was looking forward to what awesome thing they would be giving out to the lucky people who got it. And really it was a sorta a let down to me. On a long term basis it really dosnt devalue the PP and up that much. That would be more of a time investment that you would be looking at to stick with a game that I hope is truly amazing for years to come.

gilby123
05-22-2013, 06:47 PM
I dislike this update and I will most likely back out because as a PP I feel cheated and I don't want to play in a game where the developer use abusive business strategies against the consumer.

Lmao
Yeah, they totally scammed you. Remind me again how stretch goals work? Oh yeah, they're bonuses. So if you consider them trying to balance the tiers and bring in more players "abusive," then you might want to watch the Princess Bride, because as they say there, "I do not think that word means what you think it means."

Pezzle
05-22-2013, 06:48 PM
Yeah, King level was a bit sad. They could have included 5 packs from set 3 or something or another free draft. At least it was something.

wibblebo
05-22-2013, 06:49 PM
I dislike this update and I will most likely back out because as a PP I feel cheated and I don't want to play in a game where the developer use abusive business strategies against the consumer.

OK, good bye. Maybe someone with more appreciation can snap up your spot. I really can't understand how you think your getting cheated. Considering the PP tier was way over powered hence why it sold out so quickly, oh and I'm not taking out my butt, I have 2*PP myself and I'm not bothered AT ALL.

DarkSeverance
05-22-2013, 06:50 PM
Honestly I couldn't care about anything else other than "iOS and Android Support"! To me that is huge and honestly needed, that means more players across the board no matter what as well as an easier and less inexpensive way to do money tournaments (since they mentioned they would be in person vs fully online). I could care less about the other bonuses just happy to actually have that.

thereck
05-22-2013, 06:51 PM
Are you serious? They did you a favor, you should be thanking them. Your account value might even be greater. You have more people to draft against and when the year is up they start paying for their fix, You get yours freeeeeee foreeeeeeeverrrrrrrrr

sure hope they didn't earn enough gold in dungeon crawler at x2 my earning rate per hour played to buy the packs to keep drafting.

BlindMan
05-22-2013, 06:52 PM
I thought this update was awesome. I was already excited about them eventually developing a tablet version, doing it sooner is even better. It's also likely to bring a lot of people into the game. Anything you can play for free on a tablet will get a lot of people to at least try it. As for the $250 tiers...I think they did a great job of adding value and making people interested in donating more. As a side note...I pledged Pro and I couldn't be happier with them buffing the other tiers. More money means getting the tablet dev, and more people means a healthier game that lasts for a long time.

Nailed it! Excellent update!

dogmod
05-22-2013, 06:52 PM
sure hope they didn't earn enough gold in dungeon crawler at x2 my earning rate per hour played to buy the packs to keep drafting.

Sure hope you don't switch to DC and take advantage of that amazing imbalance...

Estar1
05-22-2013, 06:54 PM
Personally im delighted for this final stretch goal,

I wont be using tablets or phone support however more people joining the game is Always a good thing as it promotes the game.

free packs I cant say no to.

I was really exictied for the PVE part of the game however went pro player because of the ridiclous value of it, Im condiering switching to dungeon raider now if this stretch goal is met. I will get less bang for my buck overall but to me PVE sounds like alot of fun.

Malicus
05-22-2013, 06:56 PM
We told them the other tiers were undervalued so they added value. We told them the thing we valued most so that was what they added.

People have different expectations of what the stretch goals are for and I think this is where crypto misstepped the most, this announcement outside of a stretch goal would have likely been better received as outside of the stretch goal their is no expectation of added value so no perception of lost value when someone else gets things.

The good news is if you aren't happy you can change your pledge. The pro tier can be looked at as either an opportunity to extend the free drafts to lifetime or to stack in the case of multi pledge. The absolute value of the pro tier has not changed but the value of the alternatives has so give them your personal evaluations and if you need to change do so.

I am sticking with mine and welcome the additional players this new opportunity will draw as well as the faster access to tablet.

gilby123
05-22-2013, 06:58 PM
sure hope they didn't earn enough gold in dungeon crawler at x2 my earning rate per hour played to buy the packs to keep drafting.

Then switch to Crawler and you can too. And the key is per hour played. How long do you think it will take to farm up three packs worth of gold? Is that time worth more to you for another draft or something else? If not, then switch and go that route. Honestly, they could've done that before anyway, so how is this even a point? And they still need the buck to buy into the draft.

dogmod
05-22-2013, 06:58 PM
I am freaking stoked for the tablet myself... not being locked to my computer... being able to play anywhere in my house or at work when not busy is a really cool option.

Also the huge (hopefully) influx of people who use a tablet for entertainment and don't have access or knowledge or desire to play this game on pc/mac will be great for the playerbase and for all of us who are hoping for this to succeed.

Pezzle
05-22-2013, 06:58 PM
sure hope they didn't earn enough gold in dungeon crawler at x2 my earning rate per hour played to buy the packs to keep drafting.


Oh noes, they have to grind cards all week to pay for a tournament that you get freeeeeeeee. That is time you can spend doing anything else! ANYTHING. Mow the lawn, read a book, whatever you want without worrying about the vig.

Lochar
05-22-2013, 07:00 PM
Oh noes, they have to grind cards all week to pay for a tournament that you get freeeeeeeee. That is time you can spend doing anything else! ANYTHING. Mow the lawn, read a book, whatever you want without worrying about the vig.

Are there apps for that? I'm not certain I like the sound of the mowing the lawn thing. It involves going out into the sun, doesn't it? The sun burns things, so I don't leave the basement. :P

bladedragonfire
05-22-2013, 07:14 PM
Pumped for the mobile! Deck building at wor... i mean on break! And more people to draft with I can't wait! :D I like the idea of dungeon crawler for a year for PP, maybe get them excited about the PVE part eh?

Genocidal
05-22-2013, 07:17 PM
If anything, the people who are pledging for multiple Pro tiers bother me more than the people who are upset about the latest stretch goal. Especially the multi-pledgers telling the upset people to stop whining. It's obvious the demand is there for more Pro and GK tiers and people bragging about having multiples is poor form in my eyes and potentially cutting the size of the community.

Qorsair
05-22-2013, 07:21 PM
Oh noes, they have to grind cards all week to pay for a tournament that you get freeeeeeeee. That is time you can spend doing anything else! ANYTHING. Mow the lawn, read a book, whatever you want without worrying about the vig.

It could even be spent... earning gold in dungeons to pay for packs to keep drafting!!