PDA

View Full Version : Was the Final Stretch Goal a Money Grab?



Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 07:05 PM
I'm sure to get some hate for this statement, but lets analyze this "Legendary" goal.

TABLET SUPPORT! - Now I haven't read every post in every thread of this forums, but I have been through many of them and I could count on 1 hand the times I've seen any inquiry in tablet support. This was already said to be something they wanted to do, so revealing that they indeed will (eventually) support tablet play wasn't a surprise.

Set 2 Boosters - The 1st uncommon goal handed out $100 worth of set 2 boosters to GK. The "Legendary" goal gives them $30 worth? Since when is "Legendary" only 30% as epic as uncommon? Oh, and anyone that did King and lower, here is $10 worth of boosters. Yet the 600k, common level goal gave you 3 free drafts ($21). So "Legendary" is also less than 1/2 as valuable as a Common goal.

1 Year of Drafts - This affects ONLY the 4 tiers nobody wanted. Not the $1,200,000 worth of Tiers that have already supported. It's easy to look at this as someone saying "Look how fast PP sold out because of Free Drafts, if we do that with the other tiers they'll sell out too". And to 95% of the people that have already given 1.2 million towards the first 14 goals, sorry about your luck on this one.

Now I'm a 2xPP supporter, but this "Legendary" Goal has left me scratching my head wondering where the "Legendary" in the goal is. It's like opening a pack, getting excited that you got a legendary, and seeing that it's a 1/1 troop........ That's what just happened.

EDIT: Please read Post #55 before replying.

hacky
05-22-2013, 07:09 PM
No.

If you're unhappy with your pledges, give them up. There is a line of people who would jump at the opportunity.

Pezzle
05-22-2013, 07:09 PM
Who cares, you get more people to play against. Stop complaining that you have two buckets of free ice cream and they did not give you free sprinkles that were better than anyone elses.

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 07:09 PM
The legendary is the speeding up of tablet support, that is a huge market to support the game, which is good for all of us. The rest of the goals were correcting obvious imbalances in the tiers. That possibly could have been done at a different time, but honestly they've already been very very generous with the previous goals, there just wasn't that much more space left to wow people. I think this was the best move for the community as a whole and I am also a GK + PP + Collector supporter at the moment. It did basically nothing for me. It was still great, and I am super excited about the tablet stuff.

Gorgol
05-22-2013, 07:11 PM
Waah, who cares about a bigger playerbase potentially because of sped up tablet support? I WANT MY FREE STUFF!!!!!
/sarcasm

Madican
05-22-2013, 07:11 PM
I gotta agree. I only have the one PP tier and I honestly feel like I was left out of this so-called legendary reveal. The other four $250 tiers get my bonus for a year but I don't get something for PvE to compensate.

As for tablets, I really don't care about those. In my opinion they're expensive toys that aren't nearly worth their cost outside of businesses who use them as part of their enterprise. I don't see the sense in dropping $500+ on something that a $250 netbook outperforms.

Kietay
05-22-2013, 07:11 PM
It was a sort of lame legendary goal. Good for the game, nice for people who were on the edge about getting the other $250 tiers. But not super exciting. Luckily! If you are like me, and I assume you all are, it is balanced out by the fact that you now get to eat popcorn and watch people complain on the forum about getting more free stuff.

So all in all, I am pretty happy with the final stretch goal.

Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 07:12 PM
The legendary is the speeding up of tablet support, that is a huge market to support the game, which is good for all of us.

Name 1 Successful TCG on Tablets

Mistborn
05-22-2013, 07:12 PM
The response by many backers to the last stretch goal has been nothing short of embarrassing. Grow up, open your eyes, use your head.

Lazybum
05-22-2013, 07:12 PM
i didnt mind the adding of 1 year of free drafts, to me it was the whole only 15 packs for king and above that seemed odd when gk and above just got 50 packs not too long ago.

Lochar
05-22-2013, 07:14 PM
IBTL.

Honestly, the tablet support is a good thing. That actually probably was the original legendary support, along with additional boosters.

When they saw the imbalance between the PP and the other 250's is probably when they decided to make the adjustments. Not to do a money grab, but to try to balance out when they told people they'd allow combining multi-pledges which likely cut a lot of people off from getting the PP pledge they wanted. Proof is the fact that they specifically called out it wouldn't stack with anything else, which means all the people with 2,3,4+ PP wouldn't buy up the other tiers as well.

Try to separate out the free draft and look at it that way. Tablet support, which was only in the nebulous future if at all, now here. Additional boosters. That would rank as 'Legendary' to a lot of people.

It's just now your Legendary looks like this (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=159096). What could be an awesome card, but instead only makes you scratch your head.

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 07:15 PM
Name 1 Successful TCG on Tablets

Order and chaos duels?

That's entirely beside the point, IOS + Android is the largest gaming community in the world right now. This is a huge boost. The fact that there aren't many in the space is actually a good thing, not a bad one.

Deathfog
05-22-2013, 07:17 PM
Its just a fix to the underrepresented/unpopular PvE $250 limited tiers along with an excellent final goal with a reasonable KS stretch amount. I don't really see how they could have done much better for this last unlock.

Xenavire
05-22-2013, 07:18 PM
i didnt mind the adding of 1 year of free drafts, to me it was the whole only 15 packs for king and above that seemed odd when gk and above just got 50 packs not too long ago.

That is 65 packs, plus you get a lifetime of drafts to get far more packs than that - get over it.

Proplayers, same freaking thing.

The other 250 tiers get drafts into MAYBE set 3, then the whole thing is cancelled. I don't see why this is worth complaining about.

RECHiD
05-22-2013, 07:19 PM
Well, Cryptozoic IS a company, so one could argue that all of HEX is a cash-grab, just like every other product for sale throughout human history.

They did give non-pro 250s free drafts for a year, though. I guarantee you that drafting is the primary way Cryptozoic plans to pay for this game. It's also something that the posters on the forum desperately wanted, so it looks like the company is really striving to get the players what they want.

While there wasn't a big outcry for tablet support, I think a lot of people were wondering about it, and are glad that it's been made official.

djlowballer
05-22-2013, 07:20 PM
I was always under the impression that stretch goals were a "cash grab" by nature. Bonuses could be added to GK and PP but who would add the extra money? New backers can't pledge King, Dragon, or GK because other players are already sitting on them. The current GK/PP backers have already made their pledges based on value at the time and they are unlikely to be adding significantly more to their pledges. A new stretch goal can never be reached unless there are people willing to pay for it.

New backers now have an incentive to pledge the tiers the earlier backers passed over due to perceived value. Existing backers on Kickstarter haven't paid anything and are free to switch to a different tier if they believe the stretch goal to be a better deal. People who paid in full on paypal already...I should guess CzE will let you adjust you pledge if you ask nicely.

Facilier
05-22-2013, 07:20 PM
Name 1 Successful TCG on Tablets

http://www.duelofchampions.com/en/index.aspx

http://www.wizards.com/magic/digital/duelsoftheplaneswalkers.aspx

But yeah, I think the final stretch goal is lame. It's saying that yes, the other $250 options suck, but they will only buff them if you give us another $340k to hire some tablet pros to get it to tablets faster.

Pezzle
05-22-2013, 07:22 PM
Nah, tablet support was coming anyway. It would be foolish not to do it.

Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 07:24 PM
Order and chaos duels?

That's entirely beside the point, IOS + Android is the largest gaming community in the world right now. This is a huge boost. The fact that there aren't many in the space is actually a good thing, not a bad one.

#88 in Card Games...... I see you have high hopes for the game.

nearlysober
05-22-2013, 07:27 PM
EVERYTHING in the stretch goals was something in development or planned already for future availability

Good lord, I'm gonna have to stop reading these forums already? You self entitled whiners are amazing

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 07:27 PM
#88 in Card Games...... I see you have high hopes for the game.

I honestly just searched google for ios tcg and repeated whatever it spit out. It's an irrelevant argument. That literally has no bearing on the conversation whatsoever.

thereck
05-22-2013, 07:27 PM
IBTL.

It's just now your Legendary looks like this (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=159096). What could be an awesome card, but instead only makes you scratch your head.

^_^ :p

Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 07:27 PM
When I look at a Legendary, I hope that it's Legendary, not sub par to a common. Now I'm not saying that HEX is bad, and because of the Legendary Goal it's not worth Backing. I'm just pointing out that the "Legendary" goal is less valuable than common and uncommon goals. That makes very little sense.

Kietay
05-22-2013, 07:29 PM
You still dont get it. The value of the legendary is it how it has caused people to flail around and complain about more free stuff, definitely a good goal if you like watching and saving quotes of people saying dumb things. I assume you do.

nearlysober
05-22-2013, 07:32 PM
Just because its not legendary to you doesn't mean it's not legendary.

Or is this entire KS all about you?

Digital_Aether
05-22-2013, 07:33 PM
The free stuff you get isn't the goal. It's a reward, but not a goal. The legendary goal is getting out those mobile devices at launch. They planned to do at least iOS at some point. They have explicitly stated that every single stretch goal (the goal, not the reward) was something they wanted to do, but wouldn't have had at launch. As an MMO, there's a content pipeline planned for years to come. The stretch goals bring that content forward, and make the game start on a far stronger footing.

Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 07:35 PM
IBTL.

Honestly, the tablet support is a good thing. That actually probably was the original legendary support, along with additional boosters.

When they saw the imbalance between the PP and the other 250's is probably when they decided to make the adjustments. Not to do a money grab, but to try to balance out when they told people they'd allow combining multi-pledges which likely cut a lot of people off from getting the PP pledge they wanted. Proof is the fact that they specifically called out it wouldn't stack with anything else, which means all the people with 2,3,4+ PP wouldn't buy up the other tiers as well.

Try to separate out the free draft and look at it that way. Tablet support, which was only in the nebulous future if at all, now here. Additional boosters. That would rank as 'Legendary' to a lot of people.

It's just now your Legendary looks like this (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=159096). What could be an awesome card, but instead only makes you scratch your head.

I agree with you for the most part, and that card is pretty funny.

But for the Bolded statement. The Goal doesn't say at Release like all the other stretch goals, so just like before, it is a future goal. Nothing changed. And a Grand King got more from the Uncommon than he did Legendary. I'd hardly call that legendary.

This goal is only to sell the other $250 tiers. I don't think anyone on the fence of buying King is going to jump because he gets 5 set 2 boosters. Certainly the Captain tier isn't going to pay that extra $15+ because he's getting 2 more boosters.

But the rest I can agree with

Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 07:36 PM
The free stuff you get isn't the goal. It's a reward, but not a goal. The legendary goal is getting out those mobile devices at launch.

Doesn't say at launch anywhere.

Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 07:38 PM
You still dont get it. The value of the legendary is it how it has caused people to flail around and complain about more free stuff, definitely a good goal if you like watching and saving quotes of people saying dumb things. I assume you do.

Looks like the community is going to be great. This is how League of Legends started. Will the HEX community be the next LoL?

Daer
05-22-2013, 07:38 PM
Everyone complaining about the legendary stretch goal is more concerned about themselves then the over all game.

Tablet support is worthy of a legendary stretch goal. It will do more good for the game then every other goal combined. As a bonus they gave out free Set 2 boosters to everyone. Get over it, you aren't entitled to bonus free stuff.

People are complaining that their hilariously overpowered tier is now only the best by a smaller margin.

Schweinebub
05-22-2013, 07:38 PM
Stretch goals are intended to motivate people who have been on the fence to pledge. They are generally not aimed at people who already pledged. You get the reward you wanted when you pledged along with a small bonus from hitting the stretch goal.

It did what it was supposed to do. Since the announcement of this goal the day has turned from a dismal day for new backers and pledges into a merely bad day. Though a bad day by Hex standards is still pretty awesome compared to most Kickstarter campaigns.

Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 07:39 PM
Or is this entire KS all about you?

Never said this once, more League of Legends players infiltrating the HEX community.

Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 07:40 PM
People are complaining that their hilariously overpowered tier is now only the best by a smaller margin.

This is not the aim of this thread, nor was it mentioned once in the OP.

gutock
05-22-2013, 07:40 PM
I am not at all shocked at how shortsighted people are being.

If .01% of the tablet market joins, or even tries it out, this game and all it's potential are set for life.

The fact that they are so readily encouraging drafting and expanding their player base gives us a clear idea of where they want to go... And I like it.

nearlysober
05-22-2013, 07:41 PM
Looks like the community is going to be great. This is how League of Legends started. Will the HEX community be the next LoL?. Yeah man... It's not your whiny self entitled attitude. It's the COMMUNITY

Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 07:44 PM
Stretch goals are intended to motivate people who have been on the fence to pledge. They are generally not aimed at people who already pledged. You get the reward you wanted when you pledged along with a small bonus from hitting the stretch goal.

It did what it was supposed to do. Since the announcement of this goal the day has turned from a dismal day for new backers and pledges into a merely bad day. Though a bad day by Hex standards is still pretty awesome compared to most Kickstarter campaigns.

Well the day isn't over yet, but we are only ~66% to our weakest day. I'd call that pretty dismal.

I feel your point about the goals only being to get others to jump up or entice non-backers to back. I just didn't think an extra 1-5 packs was going to be the tipping point. Specially when anyone can just save their 3 free drafts for set 2, it was never said they had to be used set 1.

Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 07:45 PM
. Yeah man... It's not your whiny self entitled attitude. It's the COMMUNITY

Not once in my posts have I said I should have gotten more........ If I have please point it out so I make a public apology.

nearlysober
05-22-2013, 07:46 PM
Yeah. The stretch goal is the reason we aren't averaging $300 per backer like the last few days right?

It's not because the "cheapest" tier above $250 is $2500 . For sure not that.

You also realize kick starters usually slow down right and this one has been a bit of a freak?

Daer
05-22-2013, 07:49 PM
Not once in my posts have I said I should have gotten more........ If I have please point it out so I make a public apology.

Your entire post is basically about how you think the Legendary rewards weren't enough.

Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 07:53 PM
Your entire post is basically about how you think the Legendary rewards weren't enough.

They're about how Common and Uncommon were better than Legendary. I'm not saying what was given wasn't enough, I'm saying it's weird that it was less than cards of lesser quality.

EDIT: In fact I haven't said once that what was given in the goal should be more. Simply that what was given doesn't scream "Legendary" when lower quality cards are better.

GatticusFinch
05-22-2013, 07:53 PM
I DO NOT WANT Apple and their draconian App Store practices corrupting this game. Are they going to want a cut of sales of everything in game? Are they going to allow a RMAH, and if they do, do they want a cut of my sales? Will they allow real money tournaments?

More importantly, is CZE going to cave to Apple's demands to make sure it's on the App Store? That's been the pattern of other developers, unfortunately. You want on their turf, you have to play by their rules.

jai151
05-22-2013, 07:54 PM
Well the day isn't over yet, but we are only ~66% to our weakest day. I'd call that pretty dismal.

However, we are well above our lowest day for number of backers

Gorgol
05-22-2013, 07:54 PM
They're about how Common and Uncommon were better than Legendary. I'm not saying what was given wasn't enough, I'm saying it's weird that it was less than cards of lesser quality.

So, you will always use a deck with nothing but legendaries then in-game right? Because you expect them to be better automatically than all common and uncommon.

Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 07:56 PM
However, we are well above our lowest day for number of backers

10%, but fair enough.

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 07:56 PM
The legendary aspect of the stretch goal is once again, not legendary as it pertains to your individual spoils, but in how it pertains to the health of the game and overall community. Tablet support for IOS and Android is huge.

Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 07:57 PM
So, you will always use a deck with nothing but legendaries then in-game right? Because you expect them to be better automatically than all common and uncommon.

................ This makes absolutely no sense.

Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 07:57 PM
The legendary aspect of the stretch goal is once again, not legendary as it pertains to your individual spoils, but in how it pertains to the health of the game and overall community. Tablet support for IOS and Android is huge.

And was already confirmed. It would have been better if they said "at Launch". That sounds more Legendary than confirming a confirmed feature.

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 07:59 PM
They said they are bringing in a mobile unit to begin working on it now. That is much faster than not doing that now.

jai151
05-22-2013, 07:59 PM
10%, but fair enough.

10% is pretty big, and the day's not over.

Daer
05-22-2013, 07:59 PM
They're about how Common and Uncommon were better than Legendary. I'm not saying what was given wasn't enough, I'm saying it's weird that it was less than cards of lesser quality.

EDIT: In fact I haven't said once that what was given in the goal should be more. Simply that what was given doesn't scream "Legendary" when lower quality cards are better.

So what is the point of the thread then, to bring this to our attention? If you think Legendary should be buffed you basically are asking for more rewards. The Tablet support is the single best stretch goal and worthy of being the legendary.

ShaolinRaven
05-22-2013, 08:01 PM
Was the final stretch goal a money grab? Sure, but no more so then the entire Kickstarter project is a money grab for companies/people looking to fund projects. No more so then backer rewards before the stretch goals. And no more then stretch goals that gave higher tiers something that lower tiers didn't get.

So if you want to call the Legendary stretch goal a cash grab then the entire system is a cash grab because of the way it is set up. And if you are unhappy with the cash grab option you picked, choose another one or back out of the project before they take your money.

d00dz
05-22-2013, 08:06 PM
I did not get much benefit from the Legendary compared to other tiers though I am liking about the tablet support. That doesn't mean I'm unhappy. Quite the opposite in fact. If the remaining $250 tiers serve to entice more players to come in and play on launch then its healthier for the Hex community as a whole.

Stop looking at this through a selfish perspective but be objective in your analysis. Sigh @ humanity.

gutock
05-22-2013, 08:11 PM
I did not get much benefit from the Legendary compared to other tiers though I am liking about the tablet support. That doesn't mean I'm unhappy. Quite the opposite in fact. If the remaining $250 tiers serve to entice more players to come in and play on launch then its healthier for the Hex community as a whole.

Stop looking at this through a selfish perspective but be objective in your analysis. Sigh @ humanity.

Truer words...

Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 08:13 PM
Stop looking at this through a selfish perspective but be objective in your analysis. Sigh @ humanity.

I get more out of this goal than any of the others, It's not about me........

Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 08:29 PM
There seems to be much Confusion about the point of this post. I'll try to clear things up.

1. We know that KS in general is a money grab. Doesn't matter what the project is, the point is to get money.
2. We know that Legendary Cards are supposed to be the best card of the pack.

So the question is whether or not this Legendary goal is Legendary, or just (as in only) a money grab. Either way it's a money grab.

My argument is that, compared to common and uncommon goals, this goal wasn't Legendary. The point being that Tablet support was already confirmed, and they didn't say it was available at launch.

What this post is not about:
Whether or not rewards should be buffed.
Whether I, or anyone, should have gotten something else/more for their reward.

EDIT: Conversation has shifted a little towards whether or not introducing tablet support this early in development is a risk or not. Also Tinuvas has an excellent post on page #12, Post #113. It pretty much sums up the entire conversation and gives a level headed opinion. Definitely worth the read if you're considering replying.

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 08:32 PM
This moved up tablet support to imminent, asap, there's a team on it as we speak, not some time after launch, that is legendary. There are very few people confused about this.

Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 08:35 PM
This moved up tablet support to imminent, asap, there's a team on it as we speak, not some time after launch, that is legendary. There are very few people confused about this.

Not yet. We haven't reached the goal :)

Ebynfel
05-22-2013, 08:46 PM
Not yet. We haven't reached the goal :)

In two days, there will be people coming in to work on tablet support ASAP...

Better? :)

Mushroom_C1oud
05-22-2013, 08:52 PM
To bring in a team to start working on a mobile app now rather then later is expensive. It requires the extra money above what they have already promised us to make that happen. That is why Tablet Support is, as of right now, the last stretch goal.

thereck
05-22-2013, 08:55 PM
it wasn't a cash grab
http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/cze/hex-mmo-trading-card-game/dailypledges.png
it was a the biggest day to day drop I've ever seen in the middle of a kickstarter, they wouldn't do that hoping to make money

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 08:57 PM
We've also had the largest day to day increases in the middle of a kickstarter ever for any game. Twice.

*Edit: Honestly, today was what an average day halfway through a kickstarter should have been looking like the whole time. We got more new backers than our lowest day, too.

Hibbert
05-22-2013, 08:59 PM
My argument is that, compared to common and uncommon goals, this goal wasn't Legendary. The point being that Tablet support was already confirmed, and they didn't say it was available at launch.



I think it's legendary. Basically ALL the stretch goals are things that were planned for the game. Most of them seem like things that could be easily moved up by having the artists, designers, or programmers pull a few extra weekends. Tablet support means a lot more. They will have to deal with the Apple App store, Google Play, and possibly the Amazon App store. They will have to train their support staff to deal with potential problems on an entirely different platform. And of course, they have to actually port and adapt it to tablets. This one stretch goal will take more cash than the amount initially asked for funding. It's also a stretch goal that many people have been requesting.

Which of the other stretch goals sounds like a more epic undertaking?

Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 09:00 PM
it wasn't a cash grab
http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/cze/hex-mmo-trading-card-game/dailypledges.png
it was a the biggest day to day drop I've ever seen in the middle of a kickstarter, they wouldn't do that hoping to make money

Maybe I'm just dissapointed because I thought a Legendary Goal reveal would increase momentum, not kill it. In my head the Legendary was supposed to be the most exciting one. So many TCG's have failed trying get in the tablet market.

thereck
05-22-2013, 09:02 PM
yes it was a good idea from a reputable company. And, then something happened and day to day pledges dropped $100,000 even though the total number of pledgers only took a small dip.

Mushroom_C1oud
05-22-2013, 09:02 PM
Maybe I'm just dissapointed because I thought a Legendary Goal reveal would increase momentum, not kill it. In my head the Legendary was supposed to be the most exciting one. So many TCG's have failed trying get in the tablet market.

Thinking that the Legendary Goal will kill momentum is your opinion, and not one that many people share.

Daer
05-22-2013, 09:04 PM
yes it was a good idea from a reputable company. And, then something happened and day to day pledges dropped $100,000 even though the total number of pledgers only took a small dip.

It dropped 100k because the Grand Kings all sold out.

yovalord
05-22-2013, 09:04 PM
Never said this once, more League of Legends players infiltrating the HEX community.

I deleted what i had typed out until you just brought this up again. You are honestly the kind of player i HATE to see in league of legends. You are in the wrong, plain and simple and you just cant accept that, people don't agree with you? oh their trolls. You are literally complaining about getting free stuff because it doesn't effect you directly. If had a tablet, this would be an AWESOME reward for me, i don't have one, so this reward actually is a bummer to me, however this is about the growth of the game, not how many rewards i can get my hands on. And this isnt your first complaint or even complaint thread. League of legends has an AMAZING community, tons of fan created content, tons of events. League of legends also has a lot of toxic players, but no game doesn't. Want to know why league stands out? Because its the most popular truly free to play game in the entire world. Before you continue comparing things to league, take the time to realize, that you are one of the problems in the community.

inb4 "not once have i claimed it didnt directly effect me", no you played with your words so you could state that very thing. Like you do in all of your debates.

Madican
05-22-2013, 09:04 PM
Except you can look at the KS and see that it actually happened, so it's fact and not opinion. You don't need to believe it for it to be true.

Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 09:04 PM
I think it's legendary. Basically ALL the stretch goals are things that were planned for the game. Most of them seem like things that could be easily moved up by having the artists, designers, or programmers pull a few extra weekends. Tablet support means a lot more. They will have to deal with the Apple App store, Google Play, and possibly the Amazon App store. They will have to train their support staff to deal with potential problems on an entirely different platform. And of course, they have to actually port and adapt it to tablets. This one stretch goal will take more cash than the amount initially asked for funding. It's also a stretch goal that many people have been requesting.

Which of the other stretch goals sounds like a more epic undertaking?

None, and that's probably the scariest part. Tablet Support is a HUGE undertaking this early in development. They could have really put some serious polish on the game with the last goal. I've seen many games come up short because they try to do too much, too early.

Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 09:06 PM
I deleted what i had typed out until you just brought this up again. You are honestly the kind of player i HATE to see in league of legends. You are in the wrong, plain and simple and you just cant accept that, people don't agree with you? oh their trolls. You are literally complaining about getting free stuff because it doesn't effect you directly. If had a tablet, this would be an AWESOME reward for me, i don't have one, so this reward actually is a bummer to me, however this is about the growth of the game, not how many rewards i can get my hands on. And this isnt your first complaint or even complaint thread. League of legends has an AMAZING community, tons of fan created content, tons of events. League of legends also has a lot of toxic players, but no game doesn't. Want to know why league stands out? Because its the most popular truly free to play game in the entire world. Before you continue comparing things to league, take the time to realize, that you are one of the problems in the community.

You might want to try reading post 55 again. Also, I've never tried to delete one of my posts and pretend I didn't say it.

d00dz
05-22-2013, 09:07 PM
yes it was a good idea from a reputable company. And, then something happened and day to day pledges dropped $100,000 even though the total number of pledgers only took a small dip.

Its because the Pro Player, Grand King and Dragon Lord tiers sold out. There was a noticeable halt in momentum after the last Grand Kings were taken.

There was a total dearth in pledges afterwards until the improvements in the other $250 tiers were announced and yet they pale in comparison to the amounts raised prior.

Genosaurer
05-22-2013, 09:10 PM
i think at noon there was like 10k raised today (before update)..honestly the update more than doubled the about brought in for the day by offering a chance to fix the other tiers. now people are moving from PP to others now that they feel they are also worth it.

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 09:13 PM
Honestly my prediction has always been that this is going to slow down a lot. Most of the money is coming from some very dedicated people multipledging high tiers. The most promising tiers to multipledge are all gone now. I think of our 7000 backers we probably only have more like 3-4k. That is a very low number. We need as many people coming in as possible for a healthy community, which is why this tablet support goal is so important.

yovalord
05-22-2013, 09:14 PM
You might want to try reading post 55 again. Also, I've never tried to delete one of my posts and pretend I didn't say it.

If i had a tablet this would be the most legendary goal for me. And i never said you did, i said you have made extremely selfish complaint threads and posts multiple times.

Malicus
05-22-2013, 09:15 PM
Giving these tiers free drafts removes future potential revenue e same revenue they would have used once it had bulit up over time to deliver mobile.

They are saying if you guys can get this funded we can afford to offset our future revenue and do it now.

How did you expect to maintain prior funding levels without incentivising the available tiers?

It is 100% in this games best interests that crypto makes money.

Faster tablet support is a big deal it is saying they can hit the ground running delivering the full experience to the whole market quicker they can make more money and deliver more making the game better.

I plan to be here a long time and I fully support the legendary stretch even though it offers less at my pledge level

Mushroom_C1oud
05-22-2013, 09:20 PM
Except you can look at the KS and see that it actually happened, so it's fact and not opinion. You don't need to believe it for it to be true.

I'm assuming you're in reply to the momentum. Since this must be your first kickstarter I'll go over some FACTS about what is normally expected in a kickstarter. There is an initial rush of pledgers, usually for the early backer specials, plus those who might have been following the kickstarter before it being opened up on the site. This is usually followed by a few days of large amounts of pledgers, which usually includes large amounts of pledges.

Towards the end of the kickstarter people who have been sitting on the fence with kickstarter decide if they want to take the plunge or not. Usually by this time there is a lot more information out about the project and people can see how popular it is. This leads into a spike in pledges in the last few days of the campaign.

In the middle there is a plateau, pledges and pledgers are at a steady but slower pace then the beginning and what is likely to happen at the end. That is where we are at right now, the middle.

This kickstarter has been rather unusual but for most people it is easy to see that this is due to some of the higher tiers that hold a higher value due to a return on investment (i.e. free cards for life) started to become obsolete so pledgers, both lower tier and new, jumped quickly on these tiers causing spikes in the middle of the campaign. Now that those tiers are filled we are now seeing the plateau that is likely to continue until the end of the campaign.

Dralon
05-22-2013, 09:29 PM
People keep talking about the low number of backers. This is a game 95% of us never heard of until 2 weeks ago. It's as if games were never released and succeeded without a cadre of backers in the bag 6 months or more before launch. Games did well, had large populations, before Kickstarter ever existed. This game is still in alpha! They are going to go almost 5X past their 300K goal! All Tiers, yes All Tiers, are getting great rewards for their contributions (I'll let you min/maxers debate all you want about differences). Having this game on tablets as well as PC is huge in today's world, whether you own a tablet or not, it will help bring people into the game. And by achieving the Legendary goal amount they will have the funds to create that option while not compromising their PC development.

My family will have 2 accounts, we have 3 tiers we are very happy with, and are fully confident the Legendary goal will encourage some of those Kings and below to become @250 contributers, and provide an entry pledge for many others just finding the game. and enable he Kickstarter to average 20K a day and reach the Legendary goal.

Cryptozoic might even use some of the funding to advertise the game and bring in players through other means besides kickstarter before launch :)

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 09:29 PM
Cryptozoic did a very good job tearing the community in two with an update.

Say whatever you guys want about the update, but this was the worst day for pledges and the community since the start of the project.

Daer
05-22-2013, 09:30 PM
99.5% vs .5%

Guess which are the problem.

gilby123
05-22-2013, 09:31 PM
There seems to be much Confusion about the point of this post. I'll try to clear things up.

1. We know that KS in general is a money grab. Doesn't matter what the project is, the point is to get money.
2. We know that Legendary Cards are supposed to be the best card of the pack.

So the question is whether or not this Legendary goal is Legendary, or just (as in only) a money grab. Either way it's a money grab.

My argument is that, compared to common and uncommon goals, this goal wasn't Legendary. The point being that Tablet support was already confirmed, and they didn't say it was available at launch.

What this post is not about:
Whether or not rewards should be buffed.
Whether I, or anyone, should have gotten something else/more for their reward.

1) Yet your subject seems to insinuate that it is a bad thing for them to do what they can to encourage more backers by calling it a money grab, which has negative connotation.
2) wrong. Legendary CAN be the best card, but can also be something cruddy. There are bad Legendaries. All it denotes is rarity. Announcing expansion to two fast growing platforms, neither of which has a game of this caliber, is Legendarily rare. You keep saying tablet support was already confirmed. Where? And had it been for both platforms?

And I think those saying tablets are crap, etc..you are VASTLY underestimating the growing market of gaming on them.

Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 09:37 PM
1) Yet your subject seems to insinuate that it is a bad thing for them to do what they can to encourage more backers by calling it a money grab, which has negative connotation.
2) wrong. Legendary CAN be the best card, but can also be something cruddy. There are bad Legendaries. All it denotes is rarity. Announcing expansion to two fast growing platforms, neither of which has a game of this caliber, is Legendarily rare. You keep saying tablet support was already confirmed. Where? And had it been for both platforms?

And I think those saying tablets are crap, etc..you are VASTLY underestimating the growing market of gaming on them.

1. I know, that's why I tried to re-clarify in my post that I wasn't bashing the game. Believe me I realized really fast that a lot of people took my argument the wrong way just with the amount of flamitory statements.
2. While this is true, we can all agree that the legendary in this card was made out to be the best in the pack.

And while I agree that tablets are a growing market, it's nowhere near what the mobile market is.

EDIT: I'll try to find the post about Tablet Support for you. Bear with me though pls :)

gilby123
05-22-2013, 09:38 PM
None, and that's probably the scariest part. Tablet Support is a HUGE undertaking this early in development. They could have really put some serious polish on the game with the last goal. I've seen many games come up short because they try to do too much, too early.

How is this scary? Their at essentially Alpha already. And it is a huge undertaking, but this is the BEST time to start it to ensure cross-platform play works well by making sure the foundation of the game is solid and will be able to handle it. And it's likely going to be a separate team, I imagine, that will work with the current team and develop concurrently. But, to your point, examples of games coming up short?

Turtlewing
05-22-2013, 09:42 PM
Just to reply to the title:

Yes, of coarse it was a money grab, just like all the others stretch goals and the kickstarter campaign in its entirety. In fact I dare say every kickstarter campaign is a money grab. That's what kicksarter is for.

gilby123
05-22-2013, 09:43 PM
I'm assuming you're in reply to the momentum. Since this must be your first kickstarter I'll go over some FACTS about what is normally expected in a kickstarter. There is an initial rush of pledgers, usually for the early backer specials, plus those who might have been following the kickstarter before it being opened up on the site. This is usually followed by a few days of large amounts of pledgers, which usually includes large amounts of pledges.

Towards the end of the kickstarter people who have been sitting on the fence with kickstarter decide if they want to take the plunge or not. Usually by this time there is a lot more information out about the project and people can see how popular it is. This leads into a spike in pledges in the last few days of the campaign.

In the middle there is a plateau, pledges and pledgers are at a steady but slower pace then the beginning and what is likely to happen at the end. That is where we are at right now, the middle.

This kickstarter has been rather unusual but for most people it is easy to see that this is due to some of the higher tiers that hold a higher value due to a return on investment (i.e. free cards for life) started to become obsolete so pledgers, both lower tier and new, jumped quickly on these tiers causing spikes in the middle of the campaign. Now that those tiers are filled we are now seeing the plateau that is likely to continue until the end of the campaign.

Another reason is the speed which the stretch goals were burned through. On many projects, they release one, a few days pass and it's hit, they release another. Here, that was condensed. I think we'll get the standard 48 hour bump at the end when those that starred the project get their reminder emails.

gilby123
05-22-2013, 09:46 PM
Cryptozoic did a very good job tearing the community in two with an update.

Say whatever you guys want about the update, but this was the worst day for pledges and the community since the start of the project.

Did you expect we'd keep cruising at the levels we were with multiple tiers sold out? The whole point was to help balance and push the other four. Clearly, it is working some, but we weren't going to stay at the levels we were til the end. No KS does. We'll bump again the lat two days.

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 09:48 PM
Did you expect we'd keep cruising at the levels we were with multiple tiers sold out? The whole point was to help balance and push the other four. Clearly, it is working some, but we weren't going to stay at the levels we were til the end. No KS does. We'll bump again the lat two days.

Well, I didn't expect a new record every day, but I also didn't expect numbers 25% lower than a bad day, either.

Qorsair
05-22-2013, 09:50 PM
And it's likely going to be a separate team, I imagine, that will work with the current team and develop concurrently.

Yeah, it'll be Playdek. The same company they used to port their other games to tablets.
The stretch goal helps them write the check, they're not going to be doing the development themselves.
Shouldn't take much--if anything--away from the PC/OSX development.

gilby123
05-22-2013, 09:52 PM
1. I know, that's why I tried to re-clarify in my post that I wasn't bashing the game. Believe me I realized really fast that a lot of people took my argument the wrong way just with the amount of flamitory statements.
2. While this is true, we can all agree that the legendary in this card was made out to be the best in the pack.

And while I agree that tablets are a growing market, it's nowhere near what the mobile market is.

EDIT: I'll try to find the post about Tablet Support for you. Bear with me though pls :)

The mobile market has had longer and tablets have rapidly been catching up, particularly on iOS.
And to a lot of people, it was (or was at the very least a very very good goal).

I honestly think you expected something out of this world and it didn't meet your criteria. If you look at the larger picture, though, it really was a very good, multi-purpose goal.

gilby123
05-22-2013, 09:55 PM
Well, I didn't expect a new record every day, but I also didn't expect numbers 25% lower than a bad day, either.

You really should check stats on other KSes. We maintained high for easily 3-4days longer than average. We'll likely see a few days of meandering, then should pick up some near the end.

gilby123
05-22-2013, 09:57 PM
Yeah, it'll be Playdek. The same company they used to port their other games to tablets.
The stretch goal helps them write the check, they're not going to be doing the development themselves.
Shouldn't take much--if anything--away from the PC/OSX development.

Right!!! I forgot about that. Playdek make solid apps. If they dev it for CZE, we're golden.

Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 10:00 PM
If i had a tablet this would be the most legendary goal for me. And i never said you did, i said you have made extremely selfish complaint threads and posts multiple times.

I'd continue arguing with you but quite frankly it's not worth my time. This has nothing to with the conversation and the fact that you've started making false accusations just shows me you're not trying to be civil. This is what I was talking about with LoL.

This post isn't a complaint. It was a Question, followed by a statement supporting my side of the question. The statement is there to invoke conversation on the question. This conversation would help me see the other side of the coin so that I might be a little more excited about the final goal than I was originally. The Repliers are the ones that dictate the tone of the conversation, not me. I admit that I might not have done the best job at stating the question, or what the post was about, so I tried to clarify in post #55 the point of the thread. Sometimes things don't come out exactly like they look in my head because I already have an idea of what I'm trying to accomplish with the question while the readers don't. I found that out quickly when the majority of the first 50 posts were just flamitory statements.

I'm not really sure what you're so upset at. In conversations people aren't always going to agree with each other. That doesn't mean they can't talk about it, maybe convince each other that parts of their ideas are warranted, and at worst, just agree to disagree. Attacking the other persons character doesn't do anything for the conversation and only disrupts the flow of the conversation. When I was younger I was told that if I didn't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. In this thread I'm certainly guilty of violating this saying, but with the first few pages being filled with people attacking me because they misunderstood what I was getting at, I had no choice but to defend myself.

You on the other hand, are attacking me for expressing my opinion. And if that's the type of behavior you're trying to argue is acceptable then I hope that the community would look down upon such behavior. Nobody should be attacked for expressing their opinions. There are thousands of ways to disagree with a person without attacking them for having an opinion that doesn't agree with yours.

Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 10:02 PM
How is this scary? Their at essentially Alpha already. And it is a huge undertaking, but this is the BEST time to start it to ensure cross-platform play works well by making sure the foundation of the game is solid and will be able to handle it. And it's likely going to be a separate team, I imagine, that will work with the current team and develop concurrently. But, to your point, examples of games coming up short?

Sorry about the slow reply. But cross-platform play isn't always a good idea. This essentially limits the PC to the capabilities of the Tablet. There is so much more you can do on a PC that can't be done on a tablet. If it works then that's awesome, but it's a big risk this early in development.

Mushroom_C1oud
05-22-2013, 10:04 PM
Sorry about the slow reply. But cross-platform play isn't always a good idea. This essentially limits the PC to the capabilities of the Tablet. There is so much more you can do on a PC that can't be done on a tablet. If it works then that's awesome, but it's a big risk this early in development.

What kind of capabilities are you expecting out of this game?

Tyrfang
05-22-2013, 10:05 PM
The only thing I can think of is modding and custom UIs.

Truhls
05-22-2013, 10:07 PM
What kind of capabilities are you expecting out of this game?

honestly does that make a difference? Seems quite irrelevant to me. All it does is limit the options the devs have, and that's bad.

Genosaurer
05-22-2013, 10:08 PM
They said it was built with the idea of going mobile in mind. As for cross-platform limiting the game, I don't think it will. The interface for duels was VERY touch screen friendly, and from what I understand of the world, it won't be an immersive look at me jump around. It will be click here, follow through the instructions, and duel / do dungeons, etc. Click here for the AH or this city. If it is indeed like that, then a good tablet will be able to run all the features of the game no problem. I think people see the MMO part more like MMORPG (like WoW, rift, etc) and then scratch their head thinking how will that even work. When in fact, they are looking at it the wrong way from the very beginning.

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 10:08 PM
Sorry about the slow reply. But cross-platform play isn't always a good idea. This essentially limits the PC to the capabilities of the Tablet. There is so much more you can do on a PC that can't be done on a tablet. If it works then that's awesome, but it's a big risk this early in development.

This is actually not true at all. The server is doing all of the heavy lifting here, it is keeping track of what your cards do and how they work together, AND what the ai is doing. What you have on your computer is just a dumb terminal, they can put whatever window dressing they like one it, be that 3d graphics and naked women, they could just as easily have the tablet version be text based ascii graphics, the graphical implementation or the depth of the cards is entirely irrelevant.

That's why it's going to be an online only game as well.

Truhls
05-22-2013, 10:09 PM
I actually agree with science about the legendary goal not being very legendary. I'm at the GK tier, so i got almost nothing from it, and that makes me a bit disappointed. I'm not mad, and i'm glad the devs did something to make the other 250 dollar tiers better. I'd much rather have those tiers sell, because if they do we get more players, and more players means better longevity. But that doesn't stop me from being disappointed.

Mushroom_C1oud
05-22-2013, 10:20 PM
honestly does that make a difference? Seems quite irrelevant to me. All it does is limit the options the devs have, and that's bad.

I've seen the gameplay videos, there's nothing there that a tablet can't do.

Truhls
05-22-2013, 10:23 PM
I've seen the gameplay videos, there's nothing there that a tablet can't do.

yeah and im sure my phone could play this game, that doesnt mean much. The fact is, a PC will always be better, and will be able to do more. I dont want to see less features because they are pushing it on tablet too when it originally could of been just for PC and worked fine. Regardless of how good tablets are getting, the code will need to be tweaked and the graphics tweaked to get it to play right on them. Any part of that could throw a single feature they planned out the window because they cant get it to work on a tablet. That is the point me and him are trying to make.

gilby123
05-22-2013, 10:25 PM
Sorry about the slow reply. But cross-platform play isn't always a good idea. This essentially limits the PC to the capabilities of the Tablet. There is so much more you can do on a PC that can't be done on a tablet. If it works then that's awesome, but it's a big risk this early in development.

It doesn't have to limit at all. I suspect tablet play would be limited, not vice versa. Primarily, the just have to ensure the ability to duel and build from there.

katkillad
05-22-2013, 10:27 PM
No it wasn't a money grab, those tiers needed a boost regardless and if just one of them sells out then maybe the 1.5mil goal is reached.

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 10:27 PM
This is actually not true at all. The server is doing all of the heavy lifting here, it is keeping track of what your cards do and how they work together, AND what the ai is doing. What you have on your computer is just a dumb terminal, they can put whatever window dressing they like one it, be that 3d graphics and naked women, they could just as easily have the tablet version be text based ascii graphics, the graphical implementation or the depth of the cards is entirely irrelevant.

That's why it's going to be an online only game as well.

Also it was stated from the beginning that tablet play was always part of the process of this game, which is why it was designed in the way I described. The individual graphical UI are entirely 100% divorced from the featureset of the game. Also the depth and complexity of the cards are not based on the computational might of the device running the game.

Mushroom_C1oud
05-22-2013, 10:28 PM
yeah and im sure my phone could play this game, that doesnt mean much. The fact is, a PC will always be better, and will be able to do more. I dont want to see less features because they are pushing it on tablet too when it originally could of been just for PC and worked fine. Regardless of how good tablets are getting, the code will need to be tweaked and the graphics tweaked to get it to play right on them. Any part of that could throw a single feature they planned out the window because they cant get it to work on a tablet. That is the point me and him are trying to make.

I know a lot of PC gamers hate tablets and smartphones because big publishers think this is the way of the future and it diminishes the market for some truly epic PC games. However, because this game is not graphically intense the tablet does make a perfect fit for getting this game out where it is more visible.

ForgedSol
05-22-2013, 10:28 PM
Well, I didn't expect a new record every day, but I also didn't expect numbers 25% lower than a bad day, either.

The Hex kickstarter is extremely odd in how the pledges went. Take a look at the Veronica Mars kickstarter (http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/559914737/the-veronica-mars-movie-project/#chart-daily). One of the most successful kickstarters there was breaking several records. Or Shroud of the Avatar (http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/portalarium/shroud-of-the-avatar-forsaken-virtues-0/#chart-daily), a new MMO-like video game by the father of MMOs Richard Garfield himself, a project that made around as much money as Hex is going to make. SolForge (http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/1965800643/solforge-digital-trading-card-game/#chart-daily), another digital only TCG. Sabine (http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/1965132755/sabine-elegant-sound-amplification-for-ipad/#chart-daily), a piece of metal that helps direct sound on your iPad. I've backed a bunch of kickstarter projects, 38 so far in fact, and what Hex went through is not the norm. Pledges should have slowed down over a week ago.

gilby123
05-22-2013, 10:29 PM
yeah and im sure my phone could play this game, that doesnt mean much. The fact is, a PC will always be better, and will be able to do more. I dont want to see less features because they are pushing it on tablet too when it originally could of been just for PC and worked fine. Regardless of how good tablets are getting, the code will need to be tweaked and the graphics tweaked to get it to play right on them. Any part of that could throw a single feature they planned out the window because they cant get it to work on a tablet. That is the point me and him are trying to make.

I don't think you understand game dev.
It's unlikely to be a direct port of the PC client. Of course they'll have to make changes, but that won't effect the PC version. They're essentially separate versions of the same game.

Truhls
05-22-2013, 10:30 PM
I know a lot of PC gamers hate tablets and smartphones because big publishers think this is the way of the future and it diminishes the market for some truly epic PC games. However, because this game is not graphically intense the tablet does make a perfect fit for getting this game out where it is more visible.

and i completely agree with that. I want the tablet market in this game, as it will increase the chances of this game being a success. What i dont want is diminished play because of said market getting pushed too soon. That is my only worry.

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 10:32 PM
and i completely agree with that. I want the tablet market in this game, as it will increase the chances of this game being a success. What i dont want is diminished play because of said market getting pushed too soon. That is my only worry.

The game is designed in such a way that this is not possible.

Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 10:34 PM
I know a lot of PC gamers hate tablets and smartphones because big publishers think this is the way of the future and it diminishes the market for some truly epic PC games. However, because this game is not graphically intense the tablet does make a perfect fit for getting this game out where it is more visible.

I'm going to go ahead and say I hate it because now I have to throw down more $$$ on the next generation Ipad lol.

Mushroom_C1oud
05-22-2013, 10:39 PM
I'm going to go ahead and say I hate it because now I have to throw down more $$$ on the next generation Ipad lol.

lol, I'm hoping my second gen will be fine cause I can't afford to upgrade now.

gilby123
05-22-2013, 10:46 PM
lol, I'm hoping my second gen will be fine cause I can't afford to upgrade now.

Same, but should be fine. They'll likely have to make some special stuff for the retina display on the iPad 3, but I suspect otherwise that 2nd and 3rd gen would both be fine for it.

Truhls
05-22-2013, 10:52 PM
oh god why an ipad >.>

Tinuvas
05-22-2013, 10:55 PM
Wow! Strong opinions here. I remember being taught by a friend how to debate and 'argue' intelligently (not that I can, but he taught me how) and without emotion fudging the discussion. Good friend, but boy the learning curve hurt my brain. Science uses some of the same ways of discussion. They can be...contentious...if viewed a certain way, and they have certainly been viewed that way here.

To put my opinion on the matter out there (which is different than anyone else's that I've seen here)

1. I did not feel a money grab happening when I saw the last reveal, at least not in the sense that the title implied. But let's break it down.

Tablet support - By itself, that statement gives us nothing. Mobile support was already 'in the cards'. But wait! The explanation of a team being added specifically for mobile development when the stretch goal was hit DID give us something. I too am concerned about spreading resources too thin (I don't know what I'm going to do with myself until I can crack a pack in a draft, so heaven help he who gets in the way of that), which is why the 1.5 mil number appeased that concern for me. That's a lot of resources specifically devoted to mobile development. No spreading to see here in my mind, move on.

Extra packs from set 2 - Could they have given us more? Without hurting the game? Perhaps. Did it feel like a letdown after the previous stretches? If you say so. My wife has had to tell me from time to time something like this: "If I say something, and it can be taken mean or nice, I meant it the nice way". If you knew my wife, you would know that she's serious. I have developed enough trust in her to know that if my devious mind says she's being mean, it's just me. Do you have the trust in Crypto to see that it wasn't a 'give them as little as we can' move, but a 'give everyone something cool, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater as that would be bad for the future of the game? If not, then the whole argument falls apart anyway. I choose to trust Crypto here.

Adjustments of the $250 tiers - The crux of the majority of the controversy. To me, this move was designed to do 2 things, a) help bring opportunity to those who came to the game late (without messing up the PP's and GK's), and b) create a reasonable avenue for future pledges. While b MIGHT look like a pure money grab, it comes back to that trust issue. More $ for Crypto means more resources for development. If you don't trust that Crypto will use the $ for furthering the game and our enjoyment, then the whole thing doesn't matter. Don't put one red cent into the deal.

It seems to me that the underlying question truly is: Do you trust Crypto? or perhaps, do you trust Cory? Do you trust that they are trying to give us a better experience as players vs taking the $ and running? Do you give them the benefit of the doubt that this last stretch goal was their best effort to advance the cause of Hex vs let's see if we can tick off the PP holders? Well that is a question isn't it...we already know the lengths that Cory will go to to fund this project ;) But seriously, for me and my $, I trust Cory. There are things he could do to destroy that trust, and he hasn't done a single one. This last stretch goal, IMHO was designed out of their best intents to make this game/community/future the best and brightest it could be. I'd stake $870 and rising on it!

KeplerVerge
05-22-2013, 11:00 PM
It's a suitable "legendary" because they will be bringing in an entirely new team just to do the mobile interface. It will likely be done at or near launch which will substantially increase the player base, thereby increasing the value of the game. You are primarily donating to assist in the creation of a game that you believe will be a success, and this shows they are dedicated to it.

Go read some kickstarters that have some weird or frivolous tiers and you'll see how off-putting it is to donators because they don't think the project managers are taking the future of the project seriously. An example would be the 10k bra-laser tier on the blue laser lamp project. If the product itself wasn't so amazing, the offering of that ludicrous tier (and moreso the responses to criticism from the those involved in the project) would have tanked that kickstarter.

There aren't too many options that increase the survivability and interest in something better than expanding it's availability to an entirely new group. A goal to bump up the tablet interfacing and have an expert team do it is a smart goal.

Mushroom_C1oud
05-22-2013, 11:09 PM
Wow! Strong opinions here. I remember being taught by a friend how to debate and 'argue' intelligently (not that I can, but he taught me how) and without emotion fudging the discussion. Good friend, but boy the learning curve hurt my brain. Science uses some of the same ways of discussion. They can be...contentious...if viewed a certain way, and they have certainly been viewed that way here.

To put my opinion on the matter out there (which is different than anyone else's that I've seen here)

1. I did not feel a money grab happening when I saw the last reveal, at least not in the sense that the title implied. But let's break it down.

Tablet support - By itself, that statement gives us nothing. Mobile support was already 'in the cards'. But wait! The explanation of a team being added specifically for mobile development when the stretch goal was hit DID give us something. I too am concerned about spreading resources too thin (I don't know what I'm going to do with myself until I can crack a pack in a draft, so heaven help he who gets in the way of that), which is why the 1.5 mil number appeased that concern for me. That's a lot of resources specifically devoted to mobile development. No spreading to see here in my mind, move on.

Extra packs from set 2 - Could they have given us more? Without hurting the game? Perhaps. Did it feel like a letdown after the previous stretches? If you say so. My wife has had to tell me from time to time something like this: "If I say something, and it can be taken mean or nice, I meant it the nice way". If you knew my wife, you would know that she's serious. I have developed enough trust in her to know that if my devious mind says she's being mean, it's just me. Do you have the trust in Crypto to see that it wasn't a 'give them as little as we can' move, but a 'give everyone something cool, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater as that would be bad for the future of the game? If not, then the whole argument falls apart anyway. I choose to trust Crypto here.

Adjustments of the $250 tiers - The crux of the majority of the controversy. To me, this move was designed to do 2 things, a) help bring opportunity to those who came to the game late (without messing up the PP's and GK's), and b) create a reasonable avenue for future pledges. While b MIGHT look like a pure money grab, it comes back to that trust issue. More $ for Crypto means more resources for development. If you don't trust that Crypto will use the $ for furthering the game and our enjoyment, then the whole thing doesn't matter. Don't put one red cent into the deal.

It seems to me that the underlying question truly is: Do you trust Crypto? or perhaps, do you trust Cory? Do you trust that they are trying to give us a better experience as players vs taking the $ and running? Do you give them the benefit of the doubt that this last stretch goal was their best effort to advance the cause of Hex vs let's see if we can tick off the PP holders? Well that is a question isn't it...we already know the lengths that Cory will go to to fund this project ;) But seriously, for me and my $, I trust Cory. There are things he could do to destroy that trust, and he hasn't done a single one. This last stretch goal, IMHO was designed out of their best intents to make this game/community/future the best and brightest it could be. I'd stake $870 and rising on it!

Communication Theory always gave me a headache. This was very well stated.

Filena
05-22-2013, 11:19 PM
I just want to say something i am afraid to...

Tablet support.

Yeah its very good for get more players comming to HEX, BUT, i know 2 friend at least in my MMORPG guild game who love card game and who hack them to bot them and co, i know they cannot do this on PC, but alway success to cheat on IOS & andriod game.... so when the game will be ruined per cheater will this be any good to us ???

Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 11:23 PM
@Truhls I only go with the Best :P

@Tinuvas Well said. You make a some good points. Specially about the Reward side of the Goal. While not better than other tiers on a tier by tier basis, it's clear they're trying to do something for everyone (except you supporters :P (*please don't take that statement wrong, it's a bad joke)). It's definitely the thought that counts here. While my concerns of Tablet support still remains, if that extra $$ means they can pull it off without hurting the game then I can get behind it. I was always taught you gotta Crawl before you can Walk, and Walk before you can Run. It seemed like we're skipping walking and trying to hit the ground running (see what I did there?).

P.S. In the wise words of Austin 3:16, "DTA, Don't Trust Anybody!"

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 11:23 PM
Supposedly security was thought of from the ground up, so each card will have unique identifiers and everything will have to be authenticated with the server, will people find ways to cheat? probably. Hopefully at least they will be able to mitigate the damage quickly.

Sci3nce
05-22-2013, 11:25 PM
Yeah its very good for get more players comming to HEX, BUT, i know 2 friend at least in my MMORPG guild game who love card game and who hack them to bot them and co, i know they cannot do this on PC, but alway success to cheat on IOS & andriod game.... so when the game will be ruined per cheater will this be any good to us ???

Hm.... I didn't even think about the ability to hack over IOS. Haha you're not calming my worries about rushing Tablet Support here :P

Thanisse
05-22-2013, 11:49 PM
after reading a lot of these wall of texts :P
I am fairly sure that if PP and GK wouldn't be stackable , they wouldn't be sold out , and people would still buy them happily , not even thinking about the other 4 tiers ... but now that they are sold out , the ones who have it feel jealous for the people who will get something extra to a tier that had close to no value above king before (hell , a LOT of people got 2 kings instead of the 250 tiers before ) .

In reality , the only PP or GK that "lose" (using this word loosely as they don't lose anything ) are the ones that didn't stack ... but they are always free to change their pledges to 2x king and 1 x 250 tier of their choice if they really want so much more value (presuming they don't like lifetime draft and the other cooooool perks at GK ... )

WWKnight
05-22-2013, 11:53 PM
Wow! Strong opinions here. I remember being taught by a friend how to debate and 'argue' intelligently (not that I can, but he taught me how) and without emotion fudging the discussion. Good friend, but boy the learning curve hurt my brain. Science uses some of the same ways of discussion. They can be...contentious...if viewed a certain way, and they have certainly been viewed that way here.

To put my opinion on the matter out there (which is different than anyone else's that I've seen here)

1. I did not feel a money grab happening when I saw the last reveal, at least not in the sense that the title implied. But let's break it down.

Tablet support - By itself, that statement gives us nothing. Mobile support was already 'in the cards'. But wait! The explanation of a team being added specifically for mobile development when the stretch goal was hit DID give us something. I too am concerned about spreading resources too thin (I don't know what I'm going to do with myself until I can crack a pack in a draft, so heaven help he who gets in the way of that), which is why the 1.5 mil number appeased that concern for me. That's a lot of resources specifically devoted to mobile development. No spreading to see here in my mind, move on.

Extra packs from set 2 - Could they have given us more? Without hurting the game? Perhaps. Did it feel like a letdown after the previous stretches? If you say so. My wife has had to tell me from time to time something like this: "If I say something, and it can be taken mean or nice, I meant it the nice way". If you knew my wife, you would know that she's serious. I have developed enough trust in her to know that if my devious mind says she's being mean, it's just me. Do you have the trust in Crypto to see that it wasn't a 'give them as little as we can' move, but a 'give everyone something cool, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater as that would be bad for the future of the game? If not, then the whole argument falls apart anyway. I choose to trust Crypto here.

Adjustments of the $250 tiers - The crux of the majority of the controversy. To me, this move was designed to do 2 things, a) help bring opportunity to those who came to the game late (without messing up the PP's and GK's), and b) create a reasonable avenue for future pledges. While b MIGHT look like a pure money grab, it comes back to that trust issue. More $ for Crypto means more resources for development. If you don't trust that Crypto will use the $ for furthering the game and our enjoyment, then the whole thing doesn't matter. Don't put one red cent into the deal.

It seems to me that the underlying question truly is: Do you trust Crypto? or perhaps, do you trust Cory? Do you trust that they are trying to give us a better experience as players vs taking the $ and running? Do you give them the benefit of the doubt that this last stretch goal was their best effort to advance the cause of Hex vs let's see if we can tick off the PP holders? Well that is a question isn't it...we already know the lengths that Cory will go to to fund this project ;) But seriously, for me and my $, I trust Cory. There are things he could do to destroy that trust, and he hasn't done a single one. This last stretch goal, IMHO was designed out of their best intents to make this game/community/future the best and brightest it could be. I'd stake $870 and rising on it!

I am very unhappy with the stretch goal. I cannot argue this logic. (Doesnt make me any happier though) :P

yovalord
05-23-2013, 12:14 AM
I'd continue arguing with you but quite frankly it's not worth my time. This has nothing to with the conversation and the fact that you've started making false accusations just shows me you're not trying to be civil. This is what I was talking about with LoL.

This post isn't a complaint. It was a Question, followed by a statement supporting my side of the question. The statement is there to invoke conversation on the question. This conversation would help me see the other side of the coin so that I might be a little more excited about the final goal than I was originally. The Repliers are the ones that dictate the tone of the conversation, not me. I admit that I might not have done the best job at stating the question, or what the post was about, so I tried to clarify in post #55 the point of the thread. Sometimes things don't come out exactly like they look in my head because I already have an idea of what I'm trying to accomplish with the question while the readers don't. I found that out quickly when the majority of the first 50 posts were just flamitory statements.

I'm not really sure what you're so upset at. In conversations people aren't always going to agree with each other. That doesn't mean they can't talk about it, maybe convince each other that parts of their ideas are warranted, and at worst, just agree to disagree. Attacking the other persons character doesn't do anything for the conversation and only disrupts the flow of the conversation. When I was younger I was told that if I didn't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. In this thread I'm certainly guilty of violating this saying, but with the first few pages being filled with people attacking me because they misunderstood what I was getting at, I had no choice but to defend myself.

You on the other hand, are attacking me for expressing my opinion. And if that's the type of behavior you're trying to argue is acceptable then I hope that the community would look down upon such behavior. Nobody should be attacked for expressing their opinions. There are thousands of ways to disagree with a person without attacking them for having an opinion that doesn't agree with yours.

Again, its because im cringing and honestly feeling offended that YOU, after reading your posts and other threads, are playing this off as the community being toxic and saying "I hope this isnt the new LoL". I've made no false accusations, and yes i am directly "attacking" you because this isn't the first time you've complained where seemingly 99% of the community seems to disagree. Maybe you aren't being selfish this time, but given that you were in other threads (and keep trying to play it off like you weren't after having everybody against you) i'm just not buying it. And it is not as if im not offering any incite to this topic either, ive said it like three times now, i think tablet support is a worthy legendary goal as far as the games health goes.

MasterPlan
05-23-2013, 12:31 AM
I guess there has to be a limit to what you can provide as a bonus to still earn money to justify development. For a 25 dollar pledge you already get x value at somepoint there has to be a limit where you are giving up money as in development resources or future income (in the form of future boosters) where it is costing you more than you are getting. I hope this is understandable posting while tired.

Sci3nce
05-23-2013, 12:32 AM
This guy just won't go away. Please, I beg you, Read Post #55. You're very confused about this thread. I don't know how else to put it.

Tinuvas
05-23-2013, 12:33 AM
I just want to say something i am afraid to...

Tablet support.

Yeah its very good for get more players comming to HEX, BUT, i know 2 friend at least in my MMORPG guild game who love card game and who hack them to bot them and co, i know they cannot do this on PC, but alway success to cheat on IOS & andriod game.... so when the game will be ruined per cheater will this be any good to us ???

The neat thing about this is that all of the brains will be 'server side'. In other words, The Android or IOS screen that you see won't have anything really to hack. It won't be easier to cheat on the tablet than the PC. Legitimate concern though, and one that would worry me. I am not fond of cheaters.

Tinuvas
05-23-2013, 12:35 AM
I am very unhappy with the stretch goal. I cannot argue this logic. (Doesnt make me any happier though) :P

Honesty! Love it! lol.

Sci3nce
05-23-2013, 12:37 AM
Again, its because im cringing and honestly feeling offended that YOU, after reading your posts and other threads, are playing this off as the community being toxic and saying "I hope this isnt the new LoL". I've made no false accusations, and yes i am directly "attacking" you because this isn't the first time you've complained where seemingly 99% of the community seems to disagree. Maybe you aren't being selfish this time, but given that you were in other threads (and keep trying to play it off like you weren't after having everybody against you) i'm just not buying it. And it is not as if im not offering any incite to this topic either, ive said it like three times now, i think tablet support is a worthy legendary goal as far as the games health goes.

Also please support your accusations with proof. This way I can address them.

4acrossisemu
05-23-2013, 12:49 AM
Tablet support is a great feature, yea i was coming and yea the game has already been siad to be buillt with that in mind. But hell building with something in mind and doing it are 2 different things.

Tablet support brought massive original success to Dungeon Defender. There is a market out there fpr better games. Now i can draft from the couch!

Plus i'm happy that all tiers gains draft. It will feed the popularity of it and boost the drafting community. I'm a grand kings tier and all i get is these lousy set 2 boosters! PHhff! oh wait thats awesome...

NaryaDL0re
05-23-2013, 01:14 AM
Tablet support also is important because 1. this game will need to compete with Hearthstone one way or another.
2. I need to play tournaments inside university from time to time ;P. and yes 3. theres a huge market and money will
come in.

Though to be honest, is anyone else concerned that the general Ois/android/mobile market is
1. not usually related to "oldschool gamers" and therefor suffering from istant gratification disease
as well as rather casual in general and not too interested in competetive tcgs?

Also because I dont know much about this community out there, would you describe the the
Mobile family more as an angry MOBA mob, a silent and ignorant MMO community, or a helpful
and competetive TCG group?

Sci3nce
05-23-2013, 01:23 AM
Also because I dont know much about this community out there, would you describe the the
Mobile family more as an angry MOBA mob, a silent and ignorant MMO community, or a helpful
and competetive TCG group?

There's a little of all 3. But I wouldn't call the silent people ignorant. There are plenty of people who don't actively post on the forums. There are a couple examples of the MOBA mob in the first 4-5 pages of this thread, and a lot of level headed players that seem willing to help in the pages after that. In general I'd like to think most people will be the helpful group, but the MOBA mob will always be around unfortunately. Such is the nature of the interweb.

4acrossisemu
05-23-2013, 01:30 AM
a helpful
and competetive TCG group?

lol yeah right - i play Table top tourneys and the magic tourneys are anything but nice and friendly.... people are people, chips are down the competitive demons come out to play. LOL did an interesting case study on this.

hacky
05-23-2013, 01:33 AM
lol yeah right - i play Table top tourneys and the magic tourneys are anything but nice and friendly.... people are people, chips are down the competitive demons come out to play.

You should play WoWTCG then. Completely different high-end competitive community than you're used to. It's not perfect (what is?), but I love it and the WoWTCG community.

Also of note, many of that exact same community are among the first to back HexTCG.

Tinuvas
05-23-2013, 01:39 AM
Also because I dont know much about this community out there, would you describe the the
Mobile family more as an angry MOBA mob, a silent and ignorant MMO community, or a helpful
and competetive TCG group?

A man came to the top of a hill overlooking a town. Under a tree at the side of the road was a wise old elder. The man asked the elder, "what type of people live in this town?" The elder replied, "what type of people have you met on your journeys?" "Hard and gruff people, selfish and mean!" was the response. "You will find this town full of those people," the elder said, and the man went on his way.

Another young man came to the same hill a short time later and asked the same elder the same question. "What type of people have you met on your journeys?" came the question. "Loving and kind and generous people everywhere", the young man responded with a smile. "You will find this town full of those people," the wise elder replied.

A little simplistic, but valid I think.

Truhls
05-23-2013, 01:47 AM
A man came to the top of a hill overlooking a town. Under a tree at the side of the road was a wise old elder. The man asked the elder, "what type of people live in this town?" The elder replied, "what type of people have you met on your journeys?" "Hard and gruff people, selfish and mean!" was the response. "You will find this town full of those people," the elder said, and the man went on his way.

Another young man came to the same hill a short time later and asked the same elder the same question. "What type of people have you met on your journeys?" came the question. "Loving and kind and generous people everywhere", the young man responded with a smile. "You will find this town full of those people," the wise elder replied.

A little simplistic, but valid I think.

Moral of the story, old men will lie just to mess with you.

Sci3nce
05-23-2013, 01:50 AM
Moral of the story, old men will lie just to mess with you.

This LOL

benczi
05-23-2013, 01:51 AM
Moral of the story, old men will lie just to mess with you.


He said the exact same thing to both travelers, one can argue that he's a npc with a fixed responses to certain questions, thus he did not lie :)).

Tinuvas
05-23-2013, 01:51 AM
Moral of the story, old men will lie just to mess with you.

lol. He could have been just lazy too. Same question, same answer, don't have to think.

Tinuvas
05-23-2013, 01:52 AM
He said the exact same thing to both travelers, one can argue that he's a npc with a fixed responses to certain questions, thus he did not lie :)).

rofl!

Cailin_Coilleach
05-23-2013, 02:05 AM
Name 1 Successful TCG on Tablets

"Shadow Era" is fairly successful, but obviously it depends on what you define as "successful".

NaryaDL0re
05-23-2013, 02:26 AM
A man came to the top of a hill overlooking a town. Under a tree at the side of the road was a wise old elder. The man asked the elder, "what type of people live in this town?" The elder replied, "what type of people have you met on your journeys?" "Hard and gruff people, selfish and mean!" was the response. "You will find this town full of those people," the elder said, and the man went on his way.

Another young man came to the same hill a short time later and asked the same elder the same question. "What type of people have you met on your journeys?" came the question. "Loving and kind and generous people everywhere", the young man responded with a smile. "You will find this town full of those people," the wise elder replied.

A little simplistic, but valid I think.

I actually hate references towards con-prejudice arguments.
Prejudice exist for a reason, and as long as taken within the appropriate measures are meaningful.

It wont help me to tell me that there will be all kind of people.
I asked specifically for a general subjective estimate to gain some
knowledge that I know needs to be taken with more than a grain of salt.

EntropyBall
05-23-2013, 02:28 AM
The bump up for the lesser used tiers makes more sense than just pumping up a tier that is already full. They want to sell more $250 tiers (which were clearly worse the the PP tier) so bumping them was good business.

Tinuvas
05-23-2013, 02:33 AM
It wont help me to tell me that there will be all kind of people.
I asked specifically for a general subjective estimate to gain some
knowledge that I know needs to be taken with more than a grain of salt.

Actually, the point is not that there will be all kinds of people, the point is that you tend to find the types of people you expect to find. Asking for subjective estimates that will be taken with a grain of salt from a stranger on a forum whom you have a small idea of their standards or points of view seemed less effective to me. However, I do need to apologize. I truly wasn't trying to offend or belittle. If I came across that way I am sorry and will attempt to avoid doing so in the future.

Rapkannibale
05-23-2013, 03:07 AM
Name 1 Successful TCG on Tablets

Kind of a lame argument. Imagine people would have been like: "name one person who has landed on the moon" when that was proposed. And there are some successful ones, depending on what you define as successful, like Shadowera and the Might and Magic one. But even if there weren't it shouldn't mean no one should try.

I for one love this since I am often not on my PC and this will allow me to get my Hex fix pretty much anywhere I am.

Cailin_Coilleach
05-23-2013, 03:16 AM
The neat thing about this is that all of the brains will be 'server side'. In other words, The Android or IOS screen that you see won't have anything really to hack. It won't be easier to cheat on the tablet than the PC. Legitimate concern though, and one that would worry me. I am not fond of cheaters.
Shadow Era is server-side as well, with the client software simply sending their respective updates (actions) towards the server. The server then determines the various outcomes and sends stuff back to the clients.

However, it's entirely possible to either change the output from the client towards the server, or to change the actual traffic going towards the server. Assuming there's encryption, the prior will be easier than the latter. What would this achieve? Disguise your 1/1 card A as a 5/5 card B.



Actually, the point is not that there will be all kinds of people, the point is that you tend to find the types of people you expect to find. Asking for subjective estimates that will be taken with a grain of salt from a stranger on a forum whom you have a small idea of their standards or points of view seemed less effective to me.
To illustrate: I for one think I'm a pretty decent fellow and I tend to see a lot of friendly and helpful people on the forums. However, in spite of my personal perception, I can often be a wise-ass and arrogant which is precisely what a lot of people think of me.

NaryaDL0re
05-23-2013, 05:28 AM
Actually, the point is not that there will be all kinds of people, the point is that you tend to find the types of people you expect to find. Asking for subjective estimates that will be taken with a grain of salt from a stranger on a forum whom you have a small idea of their standards or points of view seemed less effective to me. However, I do need to apologize. I truly wasn't trying to offend or belittle. If I came across that way I am sorry and will attempt to avoid doing so in the future.

No offense felt, at first at least ;P.
But now that you tell me that the actual meaning of your post was;
implying that I m incapable to have an open mind and see people for their actual qualities and vices... well ^^. Quod oculus non vult videre shouldnt be something you predict someone to fall into, but rather a constructive critique (even if a little cynical) once you assume someone did fall into that trap.

Anyhow, society is society and forums are forums, even if only measurable in small statistical sample sizes, some information about personal experience will still enable me to have a superficial opinion stolen from others. At least until I m confronted with the people in questions my self and have no better choice than to test those losely based assumptions in practice.

So bottom line; I dont mean to artifically get into contact with "the mobile group" since I dont have the time or means to get to know an entire social group right now. But since I d like to make a little more educated guesses about the benefits and risks of involving named community I decided to inquire a smidge of an insight. (Even more than a smidge if things work out, since the phrasing and evaluation of people do give hints of their competence)

Yasi
05-23-2013, 05:39 AM
Balls

gilby123
05-23-2013, 05:45 AM
Hm.... I didn't even think about the ability to hack over IOS. Haha you're not calming my worries about rushing Tablet Support here :P

A small subset of dicks Will ALWAYS try to cheat. PC or tablet, that was going to happen. I trust security will be fully accounted for, but the best way to stop it? Report those doing it. Friend or not, THEY'RE the problem, not Crypto.

Yasi
05-23-2013, 05:50 AM
I will try to cheat initially, but I'll stop once I become Grand Magi.

gilby123
05-23-2013, 05:50 AM
Tablet support also is important because 1. this game will need to compete with Hearthstone one way or another.
2. I need to play tournaments inside university from time to time ;P. and yes 3. theres a huge market and money will
come in.

Though to be honest, is anyone else concerned that the general Ois/android/mobile market is
1. not usually related to "oldschool gamers" and therefor suffering from istant gratification disease
as well as rather casual in general and not too interested in competetive tcgs?

Also because I dont know much about this community out there, would you describe the the
Mobile family more as an angry MOBA mob, a silent and ignorant MMO community, or a helpful
and competetive TCG group?

Sure, but the casual player will still play PvE and may drop money there. The other thing I'd there are a TON of current and former Magic players that play casually. This is perfect for them.

Yasi
05-23-2013, 05:52 AM
Sure, but the casual player will still play PvE and may drop money there. The other thing I'd there are a TON of current and former Magic players that play casually. This is perfect for them.

What? I heard a lot of MTG players are hating on Hex because they don't want to invest in another game that will suck their wallet dry.

Diesbudt
05-23-2013, 05:56 AM
It was a sort of lame legendary goal. Good for the game, nice for people who were on the edge about getting the other $250 tiers. But not super exciting. Luckily! If you are like me, and I assume you all are, it is balanced out by the fact that you now get to eat popcorn and watch people complain on the forum about getting more free stuff.

So all in all, I am pretty happy with the final stretch goal.

I think it was a fine stretch goal. Quicken up tablets, which can help with the popularity of the game overall at the beginning.

Free set 2 packs for everyone, based on pledge? Yes very nice.

Add in they made the $250 tiers that were weak, be worth having now.

gilby123
05-23-2013, 06:03 AM
What? I heard a lot of MTG players are hating on Hex because they don't want to invest in another game that will suck their wallet dry.

Not sure I buy this.
Even if some are, though, the numbers of casual players that would be interested in at least trying the game, since it is free to play, would outweigh the naysayers significantly.

cboyd_1976
05-23-2013, 07:52 AM
Just adding my $0.02 on the tablet support in case Crypto reads my post. I'm thrilled that tablet support will be coming sooner rather than later. I do the vast majority of my gaming on my iPad. My primary play times are at night after my kids are in bed and my wife and I are relaxing in our room with a little TV, reading, etc.. Secondly, I sit in front of a computer all day for work, getting out of that chair and away from that computer and into a comfy position with my tablet is a godsend. Additionally, I travel for work a lot! I tote along my company issued laptop, which I cannot install games on. I bring my iPad along for games / media while in the airport, on the plane and in the hotel (no way I'm going to bring along a 2nd computer). Hell, I'd pay $50 just for the client in the Apple Store on top of my cards! I can assure you that tablet support will result in me spending a lot more money on this game versus if it was only PC. I know I'm just one guy, and probably very much in the minority. That said I wanted to shout out loud, bring on the tablet support as quickly as you can!!!

Thanks

Turtlewing
05-23-2013, 08:09 AM
I just want to say something i am afraid to...

Tablet support.

Yeah its very good for get more players comming to HEX, BUT, i know 2 friend at least in my MMORPG guild game who love card game and who hack them to bot them and co, i know they cannot do this on PC, but alway success to cheat on IOS & andriod game.... so when the game will be ruined per cheater will this be any good to us ???

As a rule it is harder to hack an closed platform like most tablets than it is to hack an open platform like a PC.

Furthermore the architecture of Hex would prevent most forms of cheating inherently (sever will reject moves that aren't possible within the rules, and current game state) and can be structured to prevent the rest (sever doesn't inform the client of anything the player isn't supposed to know).

Milamber
05-24-2013, 03:14 AM
...Or Shroud of the Avatar (http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/portalarium/shroud-of-the-avatar-forsaken-virtues-0/#chart-daily), a new MMO-like video game by the father of MMOs Richard Garfield himself..

#%* me how did I miss that,
Memories of waking up early sneaking into the lounge room as a young tike and slamming ultima cartridge into sega master system...
Truly epic
Remember trying to work out the ghost in the inn at moonflower, finding dungeons in exploratory journeys into the 8bit wilderness, "is that a chest or a mimic", rescuing Dupre from the jail, looting lord british's secret treasure rooms...

Damn those were great moments.