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View Full Version : Ideas on how to improve PVE



kanchome
05-22-2013, 10:13 PM
I have no doubts that HEX will be enjoyable as a PVP game much like MTG was , something that all of us seem to agree on if not anything else.

Where my doubts lie is the PVE section of the game which is an entirely different division that seems to me an afterthought rather than the core. I could be totally wrong, but with the limited information we have, there seems to be very little incentive to play as the PVE player.

PVP or the competitive section thrives based on the more bigger section of the community that still like to compete , but either can't afford to put in the time or money into being considered a PVP player. It's from that very market that the PVP market grows, because those who start off being casual and realize that they are talented or want better competition migrate to the PVP section. Competition isn't based on how high the ceiling gap/balanced the game is but by amount of people who make it competitive.

If PVE has a huge market, naturally the PVP will grow because humans are competitive by nature. Not all of us are willing to dedicate hours per day of our time into any venture but all of us enjoy competing even at the lowest levels.

The complete seperation of the PVP and PVE market by cards and by rewards has me worried that there's very little incentive to jump the gap from PVE to PVP. A player invested X amount of time and X amount of money on PVE yet to jump to PVP he or she has to spend an initial $200 to compete at reasonable level when tier 2 arrives. This is completely different to any other games including MTG or LoL and more like WoW(which is a very bad system to emulate a game such as this).

The most popular game in the world right now are the MOBA F2P games such as League of legends and Dota. Why are they massively more popular over other games? They allow players to be competitive as the free player. No amount of game immersion or game background can add in the immersion that other players add to a game. A computer AI no matter how complex does not bring about human emotions or attachment that other humans create.

What I've seen so far of PVE is that a lot of time has been put into the AI and background yet the competitive section of the PVE has been void of all competitive thought. That in itself creates a huge problem because market is left alone to create its own competitive section within the PVE instead of fostering/encouraging it.

If myself and 4 other friends who are Grand kings+ play the PVE we're going to easily clear the AI dungeons. If $4000 worth of cards isn't enough to easily clear dungeons than nothing will. What's there to do from that point onwards? None of us want to spend hundreds more in playing PVP decks , there's very little incentive once we maxed out champion cards except being left alone to decide whether we want to play fun 'custom' games between ourselves.

This not only applies to myself but F2P players who might spend $50 dollars after their initial forray and decide they've spent enough and not willing to make the next step to P2P because the next step is too cost prohibitive.

My suggestions are as follows:(These are just things one could do to create a competitive system rather than hard coded ideas)

[Make guilds competitive and reward guilds for competition.]

This could be done by rewarding guilds for clearing a certain dungeon. A faction that controls/clears an end boss in a certain dungeon controls the nexus random guild members weekly benefits such as free equipment/free cards. Guilds can lose that nexus point if another guild also clears the dungeon in which a raid occurs where a 3v3 5v5 or 10v10 battle between guild occurs.

The best fun I've personally had in magic and in games was when it felt like a team effort. Not a team effort taking down a single AI but playing a support white deck to my friends green deck versus another combo of players.
Now this brings about the NEED and REASON for people to actually max out their heroes/champions.

To limit a certain guild controlling all the nexus points you could limit the control to 2 areas(can clear other dungeons but not control them). With the 10v10 (maybe best out of 10 matches between individual players) nexus being worth the most.

[Storylines shaped by players]

Immersion is when players actions shape the course of the game. There is nothing more immersion breaking than finding out that everything you did in the game is contrary to the actual storyline. Whether human factions or undead guilds made the biggest impact could shape the story. Being online and playing only online gives the developers all the feedback they need to see the storylines as they occur. Games have just started introducing this to the game, with Defiance being the latest to enter into this foray.

[Give incentives to test out PVP]

The complete seperation of the cards means only an idiot would buy PVE boosters when PVP boosters work in both settings. There should be rewards for PVE that give some kind of incentive to play PVP. Weekly free for all arenas where a winner wins PVP booster packs or as rewards for clearing dungeons and controlling nexii.

The most competitive PVE players should have incentives to migrate to the PVP section and the most competitive PVE players will be those who are in positions to control nexus/dungeons. Rewarding PVP boosters is not costing the company very much but it forces players to spend gold to remain competitive and give PVP players reason to take part in guilds.


Conclusion:

Games that follow the footsteps of games that have passed their used by date (Wow) are doomed to fall. I think Hex is an unique position to take risks. There's a million dollars injected into the company right now, that money can easily be spent recoding the PVE and guilds to allow for a more competitive environment. Players who want to battle out AI won't be affected in any way or form , but as of now the game's PVE offers very little to those of us who are competitive (judging by League of Legends it's quite a large number) but not go "pro".

As an investor I want to know where my $500 is being spent and right now with close to a million dollars more cash injected than needed the company has easily enough funds to recode the whole PVE section to make the game a LOT larger in depth and play for the bulk of us players who are neither "pro" players or "casual AI stomping nubs". I don't want $1million spent on a 10minute CGI movie, I want the game to succeed and have a future like every other investor here. I want incentives to compete with other players without being "pro" and a sense of accomplishment in doing so.

Right now I'm very worried that the company has too much cash injection and very little idea what to do with the money. Please spend the extra money to GROW the game by adding far more layers even if it means hiring 5 more programers to do it.

Regards, Kanchome.

Madican
05-22-2013, 10:14 PM
You can't really improve a system you know next-to-nothing about yet.

Beastmaster
05-22-2013, 10:23 PM
You can't really improve a system you know next-to-nothing about yet.
No, but I like some of his ideas and i'm starting to get really spooked about how many times I've though 'Crypto should do it like this' and then in the next update they drop a hint that they're going to do just that.

For instance they have already said they will have a PvE dungeon that rewards the player with entry into a special PvP tournament to get people to try out PvP...

I have a feeling that we will continue to see Crypto make awesome decisions along these lines for the game - They seem to have a shared background with all of us players and are doing things the way they would want them to be done..

Thank God for Kickstarter and an end to the age of games being financed (and thus controlled) by people who dont even play..

kanchome
05-22-2013, 10:26 PM
You can't improve on a system that's non existent , but you can help shape a system where the focus is already being set.
There's already a separation of PVP and PVE markets where they have explicitly stated that you can't win PVP cards in PVE. That in itself is worrying.

For those who played Dota/League of legends(the most popular games in the world) imagine playing versus bots with no reward/ranking system unless you paid money. Those kind of games don't last very long.

There's nothing wrong with seperating the markets as long as PVE section is highly competitive. This is actually something that will make or break the game. Without that information it's a very murky future where anything could go.

Gwaer
05-22-2013, 10:34 PM
I agree, you put forth some very good arguments and suggestions. I am certain crypto will read it, and implement what they feel is best.

Lazybum
05-22-2013, 11:05 PM
not going to lie didnt read the OPs post. like others have said hard to improve what we know so little about

madar
05-23-2013, 03:29 AM
If myself and 4 other friends who are Grand kings+ play the PVE we're going to easily clear the AI dungeons. If $4000 worth of cards isn't enough to easily clear dungeons than nothing will. What's there to do from that point onwards?

i have feelings about this like
- using cheat in a videogame and be sad because no challenge
- buying a full geared MMO account and be sad because there is nothing more to collect
- participate on a low-category car-race with a strong car and be sad because can't use the full power on the crap ring

You can't put the free players and the 4000$ players into same bracket, it can't fit for both of them - and this game call itself as a F2P game, i would think to targeted to many players with small transactions instead small player base with huge transactions.