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GatticusFinch
05-23-2013, 07:20 AM
Am I the only one who is really worried about putting the game on iOS? iOS is especially draconian with what apps can and cannot do to be on the app store, and it would not shock me one bit if Apple rejects the app because it has an auction house system (you can buy things form others instead of in-app purchases that Apple gets a cut of), if it has a RMAH (same thing), etc. We all have seen the horror stories of how they will just decide to arbitrarily chuck something off of the app store.

My biggest concern is to see CZE cave on whatever demands Apple throws at them. Obviously, CZE wants to be on it because it is a huge market, but lets not cripple the experience just to get it on there. I would love to play the game on a tablet, but not if it means other features have to dropped.

DarkSeverance
05-23-2013, 07:24 AM
Not really concerned. Let's just say worse case, sure. All they need to do is make it do PvE and PvP. All other aspects can be utilized through another method and not needed necessarily through the app itself. In fact I'd expect to see those first anyways before anything else gets added.

Turtlewing
05-23-2013, 07:26 AM
It won't be an issue.

Apple's rules are:
"If you sell it in app we get a cut"
"If you don't sell it in app you can't link to where you do sell it from in the app."

As long as CZE sells platinum in app or doesn't link to their website from inside the app they're all set.

thereck
05-23-2013, 07:26 AM
you are correct a RMAH would probably make apple drop this, they have drawn the line here in the past. I'm sure when crypto looks into this for the final decision they will be confronted by this issue

BossHoss
05-23-2013, 07:35 AM
I think that it is a debatable decision. Giving up 30% of all IAP`s is alot but weigh that with the market you reach. The nice thing about selling digital products is your overhead is extremely low to write off that kind of a loss to gain a 1000%+ increase in players.

grey0one
05-23-2013, 07:48 AM
You do realize you can make an app and not distribute it through the App Store? Best case is they just offer it as a download through the Hex site and keep Apple from taking money from thier wallet.

jai151
05-23-2013, 07:49 AM
You do realize you can make an app and not distribute it through the App Store? Best case is they just offer it as a download through the Hex site and keep Apple from taking money from thier wallet.

Wouldn't that then only work on a jailbroken device?

EccentricFan
05-23-2013, 07:53 AM
I think that it is a debatable decision. Giving up 30% of all IAP`s is alot but weigh that with the market you reach. The nice thing about selling digital products is your overhead is extremely low to write off that kind of a loss to gain a 1000%+ increase in players.

I disagree. There's no reason they should give apple a cut. Worst case scenario, they could just allow you to access the AH through a website. Apple tablets and phones would still be able to do everything needed, and HTML5 offers plenty of tools to make it a good experience anyway.

They can keep the game itself in a native app.

grey0one
05-23-2013, 07:59 AM
Wouldn't that then only work on a jailbroken device?

Well <enter swear word here>, I'm more more wrong than right. I used enterprise distribution to push non-app store apps before. Though there's a project, http://www.limainstaller.com/ , that's working on this idea.

Xexist
05-23-2013, 08:04 AM
I disagree. There's no reason they should give apple a cut. Worst case scenario, they could just allow you to access the AH through a website. Apple tablets and phones would still be able to do everything needed, and HTML5 offers plenty of tools to make it a good experience anyway.

They can keep the game itself in a native app.

Unless I am mistaken, they can just create an app that allows access to gameplay, but no access to the AH or buying boosters/etc and then no reason it shouldn't be allowed. Yes it cripples the app a bit, but I agree that apple shouldn't get a cut.

The alternative is to charge a premium on items purchased via in app, vs purchased on PC (ie 2.99 boosters instead of $2)

Other alternative of course is to just suck it up and allow apple to take a cut for greater exposure.

jai151
05-23-2013, 08:09 AM
Unless I am mistaken, they can just create an app that allows access to gameplay, but no access to the AH or buying boosters/etc and then no reason it shouldn't be allowed. Yes it cripples the app a bit, but I agree that apple shouldn't get a cut.

The alternative is to charge a premium on items purchased via in app, vs purchased on PC (ie 2.99 boosters instead of $2)

Other alternative of course is to just suck it up and allow apple to take a cut for greater exposure.

The other alternative is to end around the system. So you have your in game store that runs on platinum. When someone goes to make a purchase, you have a popup if insufficient funds saying, "You need more platinum! To learn about platinum, go to www.hextcg.com. Due to the policies of the Apple App Store, we are not allowed to sell platinum through the game or provide a link to the store." You then have a store set up on another site linked in the about platinum section of the hextcg site.

Tyrfang
05-23-2013, 08:09 AM
Probably they will have a premium for in-app purchases to maintain their margin.

successfulgeek
05-23-2013, 08:36 AM
Yeah, I don't think you will be able to make any purchases in the Apps or Google and Apple will take cuts. Honestly I don't think you should even do deck management in the tablet apps, just let you choose your saved decks and then play in PVE or PVP...

Though for drafting on a tablet, maybe have saved draft tickets that you bought on desktop or website?

houjix
05-23-2013, 08:42 AM
Yeah, I don't think you will be able to make any purchases in the Apps or Google and Apple will take cuts. Honestly I don't think you should even do deck management in the tablet apps, just let you choose your saved decks and then play in PVE or PVP...

Though for drafting on a tablet, maybe have saved draft tickets that you bought on desktop or website?

If they go the MTGO route, you already have to have your packs and tickets prior to joining a queue.

ringlord
05-23-2013, 09:49 AM
Yep. The solution is easy. If CZE doesn't want to share with Apple they just don't allow players to buy stuff with real money in the app. They can allow buying or bidding with platinum already on the account, though.

Joolz
05-23-2013, 10:16 AM
Well <enter swear word here>, I'm more more wrong than right. I used enterprise distribution to push non-app store apps before. Though there's a project, http://www.limainstaller.com/ , that's working on this idea.

Enterprise apps are meant to be distributed amongst those within an organization and not to the public. It's certainly technologically possible to but Apple would sue the crap out of Crypto.

Deathfog
05-23-2013, 10:29 AM
Most tablets are android anymore and market share is growing, Apple stuff is becoming as irrelevant as Mac game support, when Hex does have.

tenaciousmonkey
05-23-2013, 12:25 PM
The other alternative is to end around the system. So you have your in game store that runs on platinum. When someone goes to make a purchase, you have a popup if insufficient funds saying, "You need more platinum! To learn about platinum, go to www.hextcg.com. Due to the policies of the Apple App Store, we are not allowed to sell platinum through the game or provide a link to the store." You then have a store set up on another site linked in the about platinum section of the hextcg site.

I second this idea. Just set up a simple mobile site (m.hextcg.com/store or something like that) that you can easily swap from the game, to the site, and back to the game quickly. Or, at least for Android, they could just release the .apk file on their site and not mess around with any Google fees.

Ashenor
05-23-2013, 12:27 PM
They can just make it so you can't access the AH from iOS, but you still can on your PC maybe.

Hadin
05-23-2013, 12:36 PM
Some of you are suggesting that they remove some functionality from the game in order to support tablets. This pretty much defeats the purpose of introducing these programs to tablets. Sure players who play on PC would have an additional option to play, but it would be extremely discouraging for a person who is going to play exclusively from their tablet to have zero AH functionality, or other means. If the KS reaches 1.5m then they will have the money to add tablet support. Each additional player who plays because of their tablet has the potential to give additional revenue to CZE. Tablets NEED the full version, or spending money to add tablet functionality combined with paying those tablet developers to stay on board and update the program will result in a loss.

Gwaer
05-23-2013, 12:38 PM
You bring up very good points Hadin Gar-Kan. I anxiously await how Crypto handles that. Hopefully we can afford to get them a mobile team to think all this through!

Rayous
05-23-2013, 12:39 PM
I don't think the 30% cut on in app purchases would be a problem for cryptozoic since digital cards have no production costs after development and the precentage of increased sales from tablet purchases will be huge.

Hadin
05-23-2013, 12:43 PM
You bring up very good points Hadin Gar-Kan. I anxiously await how Crypto handles that. Hopefully we can afford to get them a mobile team to think all this through!

Please just call me Hammen. I gave up that life a long time ago!

Hibbert
05-23-2013, 12:45 PM
Any attempt to circumvent the Apple App store is usually quickly shot down by Apple. If an app links to a outside website to do the microtransactions for the express purpose of cutting the app store out of the process, that will quickly get it delisted. The only way they can cut Apple out is by not ever mentioning the ability to purchase plat/boosters in the app. That defeats the whole purpose of putting it on iOS.

Releasing an .apk would work fine for Android. It's just a matter of whether the extra cut of profit is worth the hassle to the customers and the lack of Google Play advertising.

I don't think accessing the AH will be an issue in either store though. I'm pretty sure Blizzard doesn't pay a cut of each WoW auction completed with their mobile app to Apple/Google.

Gwaer
05-23-2013, 12:45 PM
=) I loved that book when I was a much younger man.

Turtlewing
05-23-2013, 12:58 PM
Any attempt to circumvent the Apple App store is usually quickly shot down by Apple. If an app links to a outside website to do the microtransactions for the express purpose of cutting the app store out of the process, that will quickly get it delisted. The only way they can cut Apple out is by not ever mentioning the ability to purchase plat/boosters in the app. That defeats the whole purpose of putting it on iOS.

Releasing an .apk would work fine for Android. It's just a matter of whether the extra cut of profit is worth the hassle to the customers and the lack of Google Play advertising.

I don't think accessing the AH will be an issue in either store though. I'm pretty sure Blizzard doesn't pay a cut of each WoW auction completed with their mobile app to Apple/Google.

Or they could just sell platinum in the app. Apple takes 30%, but in exchange CZE gets access to the large market of people who use iOS. Since it's digital goods that could still be a good deal for CZE.

nearlysober
05-23-2013, 01:59 PM
The app might just be a client to play the game.
RMAH, etc. could be handled online only if it conflicted with Apple Policy.

Remember the vast majority of this game is server side. The client we download will only contain the graphics & UI to interface with it... the tablet version could be different than the desktop.

RoyalNightGuard
05-23-2013, 03:03 PM
Obviously, CZE wants to be on it because it is a huge market, but lets not cripple the experience just to get it on there. I would love to play the game on a tablet, but not if it means other features have to dropped.
So you're saying that if the only way to put the game on iOS is to restrict some features, you'd rather them not put the game on iOS at all? Why not? You'd rather have nothing at all than something?

Tyrfang
05-23-2013, 03:18 PM
I don't see this as a problem.
Either...
1) Sell Platinum in-app at a markup to account for the app-store cut
2) Sell Platinum in-app at normal price and eat the app-store cut
Do all in-game purchases in platinum.
Don't want to pay the mark-up, or want to support Cryptozoic over Apple/Google/Microsoft(?) => Use the PC version.