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View Full Version : What is the point to limiting the number of spots per tier?



cboyd_1976
05-23-2013, 08:06 AM
Just a general question. What is the logic / point to limiting the number of people who can pledge a specific tier? Isn't it in the best interest of Crypto to allow as many people as possible to pledge the tier of their choosing? I would think this introduces situations where a backer will drop down to a lower tier that is available because the one they wanted is no longer available.

houjix
05-23-2013, 08:10 AM
The free drafts for life means less money for Crypto in the long run. Almost no one would take any of the other $250 tiers if PP was unlimited.

Merir
05-23-2013, 08:13 AM
I would also assume it is done in part to create a sense of urgency. When people see that only a limited number is available, some of them will go "oh gosh look at how fast they're running out, I better get it while I still can!". Also, early bird tiers can be offered to get the ball rolling when a bunch of people rush to grab the tiers with great value.

Tyrfang
05-23-2013, 08:13 AM
houjix: PvE players who don't draft would pledge Dungeon Crawler if they would release more info on PvE.

Honestly, I feel like the only reason DC pledges are slow is because they lack information on the PvE side, and everyone knows what drafting is like.

ShaolinRaven
05-23-2013, 08:14 AM
There are a few reasons.

1) To entice people to get the limited tier before it sells out. It increases the attraction to that tier because it becomes more exclusive if you have a tier with unlimited numbers people will debate longer about switching their pledges, where as people see those numbers and spaces dropping they might decide faster and impulse upgrade.

2) You only want to be giving away so much free stuff or limited numbers of certain objects. Whether its cards in a digital medium or signed artwork you don't want to be giving out an unreasonable amount (unreasonable being subjective to the person/company).

There are other reasons, but these are probably the top reasons.

Malicus
05-23-2013, 08:15 AM
Well specifically with the Pro Tier and GK they are trading smaller initial investment for a lifetime of reduced income from those backers.

Even if I start drafting 4 times a week in set 3 that is only half the income Crypto will have from me going forward.

People seem to ignore the trade off involved in offering free drafts to the other tiers, they tie it to the stretch goal because getting that much up front allows them to further delay their revenue but they trade off draft revenue from those backers. Personally I think it would have caused less QQ (though I deem the QQ unwarranted) if they hadn't tied them together but just assumed we would reach the target.

People need to remember that for us to continue enjoying this game in years to come Crypto has to make money - the idea that they might be greedy comes up in peoples comments and the reality is this is a service they are providing - they are passionate about it and enthusiastic but at the end of the day if it isn't profitable it will end.

houjix
05-23-2013, 08:16 AM
houjix: PvE players who don't draft would pledge Dungeon Crawler if they would release more info on PvE.

Honestly, I feel like the only reason DC pledges are slow is because they lack information on the PvE side, and everyone knows what drafting is like.

Even if I was mainly going PVE, I'd still take the PP for the "free cards". Anything that reduces the real money I would have to put into the game is better than the increased drops. But I see the value in the extra drops, hence why I went GK.

MrCwis
05-23-2013, 08:17 AM
The free drafts for life means less money for Crypto in the long run. Almost no one would take any of the other $250 tiers if PP was unlimited.

This is the exact reason, alot of people would buy the Pro Player tier to get free drafts for life which has been pointed out to about a $364 value each year, and that would be for the life of the game. so for serious drafters for $250 upfront they could save themselves $364 a year for each year they play the game. So for the 2000 drafts for life they've given out(1000PP+1000GK) thats $728,000 a year that Cryptozoic isn't making in exchange for a one time payment of $750,000(minus kickstarters share) that's a huge value to them, of course not all these drafts will be turned in but that's still a huge revenue point for any TCG.

Tyrfang
05-23-2013, 08:17 AM
That's just your opinion.

I've seen people literally post "I hate drafting and only want to PvE, what do I do with the 3 free drafts from stretch goals?"

Daer
05-23-2013, 08:19 AM
Because giving away unlimited free stuff isn't generally a good idea.

Tyrfang
05-23-2013, 08:20 AM
Thats $728,000 a year that Cryptozoic isn't making in exchange for a one time payment of $750,000(minus kickstarters share) that's a huge value to them, of course not all these drafts will be turned in but that's still a huge revenue point for any TCG.

By that logic, tons of revenue is being lost because of all the booster packs bundled with tiers.

Giving out a digital product for free doesn't directly correlate to lost revenue. Some people may only be interested in the game because there's a promise of free drafts. Without it, they may have passed on the game/KS entirely.

Tyrfang
05-23-2013, 08:20 AM
Because giving away unlimited free stuff isn't generally a good idea.

Except...that's what the PvE portion of the game appears to be.

Malicus
05-23-2013, 08:21 AM
That's just your opinion.

I've seen people literally post "I hate drafting and only want to PvE, what do I do with the 3 free drafts from stretch goals?"

Don't use em? Doesn't really seem like too big a deal, though if they were token based and able to be traded it would be nice to pick up a few extra drafts that way.

houjix
05-23-2013, 08:22 AM
That's just your opinion.

I've seen people literally post "I hate drafting and only want to PvE, what do I do with the 3 free drafts from stretch goals?"

Take some time to learn the other aspects this game has to offer, draft cards you need for PVE then drop, learn how to play the game better. Free stuff is free stuff. Sorry if they have to jump through a small hoop to get it.

Tyrfang
05-23-2013, 08:23 AM
Take some time to learn the other aspects this game has to offer, draft cards you need for PVE then drop, learn how to play the game better. Free stuff is free stuff. Sorry if they have to jump through a small hoop to get it.

You don't have to argue with me, I'm just parroting another person's opinion.

Point is, your opinion isn't the only one. It's an opinion, not a fact.

Malicus
05-23-2013, 08:25 AM
By that logic, tons of revenue is being lost because of all the booster packs bundled with tiers.

Giving out a digital product for free doesn't directly correlate to lost revenue. Some people may only be interested in the game because there's a promise of free drafts. Without it, they may have passed on the game/KS entirely.

A lot of revenue may be lost because of those boosters - if you exclude the money from Kickstarter even if the player base remained stable for the life of the game Crypto will make less from Set 1 than any other due to booster flood.

Whether the portion of money raised tied to boosters is equivalent to what would have been made via retail is a separate question we will never know the answer to but the likelihood is that the effect of discounted boosters and free drafts is lost revenue - the trade off for upfront funding.

Daer
05-23-2013, 08:25 AM
Except...that's what the PvE portion of the game appears to be.

That's different because PVE stuff is free from the start. If something is free you can give away an unlimited amount. Drafts aren't free, they cost money so you can't give away an unlimited amount.

houjix
05-23-2013, 08:27 AM
You don't have to argue with me, I'm just parroting another person's opinion.

Point is, your opinion isn't the only one. It's an opinion, not a fact.

Well, the fact is PP sold out way faster than any other Tier, followed by DL and GK. You can release all the PVE info you want and the value of the DC tier is not going to magically get better that the ones that provide true free cards.

MrCwis
05-23-2013, 08:29 AM
That's just your opinion.

I've seen people literally post "I hate drafting and only want to PvE, what do I do with the 3 free drafts from stretch goals?"

Obviously not everyone would buy Pro Player or Grand king, but we all witnessed how quickly these two things sold out compared to the other $250s that are still under 100 with the exception of DC I believe. I bought GK because of all the PVE bonuses and I'll draft a bit because it's there and offers great value to anyone who wants to draft. Even casually in 72 drafts and the GK will have paid itself off. Actually I'll say 80 drafts for the whole time value of money arguement.

Tyrfang
05-23-2013, 08:31 AM
That's different because PVE stuff is free from the start. If something is free you can give away an unlimited amount. Drafts aren't free, they cost money so you can't give away an unlimited amount.

A starter deck is free from the start. If you gave out unlimited starters to make decks with...

Free products are given out to entice players into the game and convert them into paying players. You can't make PvE so easy/trivial that no one is interested for long enough to consider other parts of the game.

MasterPlan
05-23-2013, 12:15 PM
If you bought a new car and they threw in free fuzzy dice, if you do not want to use them you do not have to but its silly to complain that they gave you free fuzzy dice.

IndigoShade
05-23-2013, 12:32 PM
If you bought a new car and they threw in free fuzzy dice, if you do not want to use them you do not have to but its silly to complain that they gave you free fuzzy dice.

Yeah, but if they charged you $10 extra for fuzzy dice and told you they were going to be back in fashion soon, just you wait! Then gave everyone else free fuzzy dice for a year, you might feel a bit upset. Even if you will have your fizzy dice forever. Oh wait, wtf are we talking about again?

Turtlewing
05-23-2013, 12:38 PM
Yeah, but if they charged you $10 extra for fuzzy dice and told you they were going to be back in fashion soon, just you wait! Then gave everyone else free fuzzy dice for a year, you might feel a bit upset. Even if you will have your fizzy dice forever. Oh wait, wtf are we talking about again?

I don't know but suddenly I'm mad about how many people have fuzzy dice.

Gwaer
05-23-2013, 12:41 PM
They aren't charging you money for the fuzzy dice though... They're absolutely free addons, you've made your contribution, the remaining bit really should be made up by the people coming in. We need the player numbers.

papalorax
05-23-2013, 12:44 PM
There is a balance of free drafters to paying drafters that will benefit CZE in the long run. You need 8 people to draft...so even if you are only selling 5 of those seats...if the draft would not have started otherwise, it is a huge win for CZE.

Hadin
05-23-2013, 01:12 PM
There is a balance of free drafters to paying drafters that will benefit CZE in the long run. You need 8 people to draft...so even if you are only selling 5 of those seats...if the draft would not have started otherwise, it is a huge win for CZE.

Nothing like a few thousand drafters needing to log in once a week for a year in order to claim their prize, resulting in other players who want to draft spending money to buy into their spot. Additionally, this will make sure drafts fire on a regular basis (especially for the first year), which should help to ensure the longevity of this game. I applaud CZE for choosing such a mutually beneficial stretch goal reward.

Ashenor
05-23-2013, 01:14 PM
There was a X amount of money they wanted/needed to raise. No use dilluting there own product for the life time of it with to many tiers of certain things or give aways.

Deathfog
05-23-2013, 02:01 PM
They don't need unlimited money for the KS, this is seed money to finish off planned features and get the game into beta and out to retail on schedule. Going above and beyond on the KS is nice and all, but seeing as this is a money making game rather than a lot of one shot KS campaigns, they don't need to make enough to cover their budget for the next few years on this alone.

Plus KS takes a 10% cut of the pledges.