PDA

View Full Version : Sad, I guess Nobody cares about tablets.



TheRhys
05-23-2013, 07:41 PM
Whaaaaat no way! I can't believe nobody cares about playing on their overpriced underpowered toys as opposed to a PC/laptop.

No but seriously, It's a little disappointing, It's something that was already bound to happen, it's not something they were ignoring, and the bonus isn't even for getting it in at launch. I feel like the ball was significantly dropped on this. And the sharp decrease in pledges pretty reliably show this. I dunno maybe you guys should add a 2nd legendary that is something people want, so that people will get the idea that they need to power through this 1.5 million to get to the 1.75 million goal that seems cool. Because honestly, there being more casuals in a game doesn't help me any. If anything it hinders me, as now I have to deal with them. Oh and the fact that the other 250 tier bonuses don't really stack with my current one, that also sucks a bit, so even if I felt the need to pledge more because the stretch goal was something I wanted as opposed to something that was going to happen anyways, and I'm somewhat against, I still probably wouldn't, due to the lack of stacking of the drafts and such.

This whole last few days has been kind of a huge kick in the nuts to me, The lgenedary stretch goal is underwhelming, the rewards are uninteresting or downright infuriating though now I'm just pissed at cze in general as opposed to being annoyed about the stretch goal. I don't want to seem ungrateful, but at the same time, $250 is a lot of money, and now there's a lot of uncertainty involved in this. If this is how they'll handle problems in the future I don't know how long I'll be playing. Will my exclusive lotus garden stop being exclusive? What if they decide to give everybody a year long lotus garden, then won't the lotuses be severely devalued? What if the game is garbage and I only play for a year, at that point I got no unique bonus for my tier, where every other 250 got some pve bonus and a pvp bonus. Now everybody will say, oh so switch, yeah I could switch, but then if I play for more than a year I lose the coolest bonus to me. It's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. Also I can't speak with my wallet, because they don't care, my 250 isn't the final 250, it's a drop in the bucket and it's not going to matter to them. Also when my bonus was exclusive when I pledged it, and it no longer is, that's kinda crappy.

TL: DR Tablet support is not as popular as they anticipated, perhaps they should add a 1.75 million tier with something else cool on it so people will power through the 1.5m tier to get to it. pledges have dropped immensely since the reveal, data supports.

Hadin
05-23-2013, 07:43 PM
Clearly the only possible reason that the pledges have dropped is because nobody wants tablet support. It can't possibly be because Pro Player, Grand King, and Dragon Lord have all sold out, and they were by far the most popular. /s

Daer
05-23-2013, 07:43 PM
You are bad and you should feel bad.

Beastmaster
05-23-2013, 07:45 PM
Time for the booster 'treasure chest' to be revealed... ;)

Madican
05-23-2013, 07:45 PM
Clearly the only possible reason that the pledges have dropped is because nobody wants tablet support. It can't possibly be because Pro Player, Grand King, and Dragon Lord have all sold out, and they were by far the most popular. /s

Except those have been sold out for days and the drop in pledges started on the same day the legendary goal was revealed.

Whether you like the goal or not it is the reason for the sudden drop.

TheRhys
05-23-2013, 07:46 PM
oh you're right, that's certainly why they added pro players previously exclusive backer reward to everybody else. Good to see that helped a bunch, oh what todays and yesterdays pledges are about half of the average? Certainly that has to have an effect. Guess they'll double it to 2 years pretty soon, but oh what then if that doesn't work they'll probably go up to lifetime for everybody but pro players.

KingBlackstone
05-23-2013, 07:46 PM
Please don't complain. </3 I don't even own a tablet and I thought the last row of stretch goals were incredible.
Why on earth would you try to persuade the rest of us into being as unhappy as you are? :(

ForgedSol
05-23-2013, 07:48 PM
Well... Collector pledges doubled. In one day they got as many as the 15 days before the change. Raid Leaders doubled. Dungeon Crawler doubled. Guild Leaders quadrupled in backers. In one day. Seems like the change worked.

Hadin
05-23-2013, 07:48 PM
Except those have been sold out for days and the drop in pledges started on the same day the legendary goal was revealed.

Whether you like the goal or not it is the reason for the sudden drop.

Actually, Grand Kings sold out the day we reached the 1.16 million stretch goal. I remember because we had threads going about how once the GKs were gone the stretch goal would be all but completed. I'm sorry but your mental timeline is incorrect. The grand kings did push us to the 1.16 million, plain and simple. You can go ahead and look at the kickstarter history at kicktraq and see exactly how right I'm being when I say I'm right.

You should go through the last few pages of threads on this forum as well, and you will see a pile of good arguments for why tablet support is an amazing legendary stretch goal for the longevity of the game, and one that will greatly benefit any person who is intending to play this game. (Hint: larger playerbase, more people buying cards, more drafts, more people to trade with)

IndigoShade
05-23-2013, 07:48 PM
I don't have a tablet. Right now I don't want a tablet. Eventually I might have a tablet. Then I'll be happy this game supports tablets. Some people out there already have tablets. Those people will be happy this game supports tablets. I'm happy those people will be happy that this game supports tablets. The end.

Hadin
05-23-2013, 07:49 PM
Well... Collector pledges doubled. In one day they got as many as the 15 days before the change. Raid Leaders doubled. Dungeon Crawler doubled. Guild Leaders quadrupled in backers. In one day. Seems like the change worked.

I think if Guild Master had gone from 5 to 6 pledges that would have been a success. This right here seems to be the apocalypse.

Black_Omega
05-23-2013, 07:49 PM
I'm actually typing this on my iPad :)

That aside... Yes I agree the tablet support was bound to happen but you need to look at it like this: if we hit the stretch goal they will bump up the development of the program. I, for one, think this is a great feature...

neonovas
05-23-2013, 07:50 PM
Most KS campaigns actually have a huge influx the first week, then stagnate until the last week when they rocket back up again like http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity/ or http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/stoic/the-banner-saga/ the fact that its been going up steadily for 2 weeks its weird. What happened today "should" have started last week.

TheRhys
05-23-2013, 07:50 PM
Please don't complain. </3 I don't even own a tablet and I thought the last row of stretch goals were incredible.
Why on earth would you try to persuade the rest of us into being as unhappy as you are? :(

If you're convinced to be unhappy by my stating that the data supports the fact that people aren't interested in tablets based on the amount/# of pledges over the last 2 days, then I'm sorry. But I'm trying to offer CZE a way to get pledge numbers back up, IE announcing something that they hadn't already told us was coming anyways, and put it at 1.75m. I really would like nothing more than for this game to be awesome, since the longer I play it the more I actually get out of my KS bonus. But realistically the final stretch goal is a stinker, people either don't care about it, actively don't want it, or don't want to spend more money to get it.

Hadin
05-23-2013, 07:50 PM
oh you're right, that's certainly why they added pro players previously exclusive backer reward to everybody else. Good to see that helped a bunch, oh what todays and yesterdays pledges are about half of the average? Certainly that has to have an effect. Guess they'll double it to 2 years pretty soon, but oh what then if that doesn't work they'll probably go up to lifetime for everybody but pro players.

Many people on the fence about spending $250 or more were convinced by the urgency of desirable tiers running out, so they spent their money immediately. Now that they have spent their money, we have to wait for more people to find out about this game, look at the game, and convince themself to put money into the game.

Ebynfel
05-23-2013, 07:52 PM
Well ,i would back for tablet support, if I didn't go pro player on day 1 of the kickstarter...

TheRhys
05-23-2013, 07:54 PM
Most KS campaigns actually have a huge influx the first week, then stagnate until the last week when they rocket back up again like http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity/ or http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/stoic/the-banner-saga/ the fact that its been going up steadily for 2 weeks its weird. What happened today "should" have started last week.
Granted that this kickstarter is odd, but generally when you get into stretch goals, you get to situations where they tend to go up pretty steadily, The previous stretch goals were all awesome, this one, hugely controversial as it was a screw you to one tier, and generally speaking the numbers support the mediocrity of tablet support. Now you can say that having more people is better for a game, and that's true to an extent, but only if they're the right sort of people, casuals are poisonous, they make games bad, adding tablet support, which is something that was ALWAYS going to happen (another reason it's uninteresting) will lead to a huge influx of 7 year olds playing on their parents ipads, It'll happen, it'll be bad for the game in the long run, and generally it isn't all good.

Hadin
05-23-2013, 07:55 PM
If you're convinced to be unhappy by my stating that the data supports the fact that people aren't interested in tablets based on the amount/# of pledges over the last 2 days, then I'm sorry. But I'm trying to offer CZE a way to get pledge numbers back up, IE announcing something that they hadn't already told us was coming anyways, and put it at 1.75m. I really would like nothing more than for this game to be awesome, since the longer I play it the more I actually get out of my KS bonus. But realistically the final stretch goal is a stinker, people either don't care about it, actively don't want it, or don't want to spend more money to get it.

correlation != causation. Just because a new stretch goal was released AND the amount of money being pledged has dropped doesn't mean that one is responsible for the other. Perhaps instead of assuming there is a correlation based on your own bias against tablets (because it is quite clear how little you think of them) you could actually look at the facts instead of stating that one is directly influencing the other, and so must be a fact.

Madican
05-23-2013, 07:56 PM
Casual is not a dirty word. Casual players are not bad players by default.

djlowballer
05-23-2013, 07:56 PM
1. Go to taobao.com, search tablets and enjoy cheap prices for pretty decent tablets. There are tablets targeted to the Chinese market which are quite decent and cost less than 100$ shipped. Then you can enjoy the stretch goal.

2. You should re-evaluate your life when a 250$ entertainment pledge evokes feelings of "being kicked in the nuts". Hex is only a game.

ForgedSol
05-23-2013, 07:57 PM
Granted that this kickstarter is odd, but generally when you get into stretch goals, you get to situations where they tend to go up pretty steadily, The previous stretch goals were all awesome, this one, hugely controversial as it was a screw you to one tier, and generally speaking the numbers support the mediocrity of tablet support. Now you can say that having more people is better for a game, and that's true to an extent, but only if they're the right sort of people, casuals are poisonous, they make games bad, adding tablet support, which is something that was ALWAYS going to happen (another reason it's uninteresting) will lead to a huge influx of 7 year olds playing on their parents ipads, It'll happen, it'll be bad for the game in the long run, and generally it isn't all good.

Casuals are bad? Seriously? You realize this is being marketed as a F2P game. Half of it at least. F2P games thrive on 5% of their playerbase spending money while 95% never spend a dime. You don't consider that casual? The whole point of a F2P game is to attract casual players to help fill out the experience of the rest of the players.

Redbeastmage
05-23-2013, 07:59 PM
In case you need a visual assistant, here we go: 617.


See that day with 131k? Thats when Pro ran out

See the day with 139k? Thats when grand king ran out

See the time in between? Thats when Dragon-Lord ran out

Before the last stretch goal was announced, the total from Midnight-3pm EST was 11k. After the tablet announcedment and boost to the $250 PvE goals, another 29k came in. Today only a little over 30k came in. Which is below average but given the most exciting rewards are gone is to be expected.

The tablet goal is great for people with them AND without them, because it expands the audience, which increases the people available to play when you want to and the availability of things on the Auction House. However, I doubt theres a ton of people who were sitting back and not kicking due to lack of tablet support. I honestly doubt that, other then having 50 set 2 packs encouraging the run on GK, there were any stretch goal rewards that caused people to kick into a frenzy. Pro Player had value and people saw it with a snowball effect. Same for DL.

OysterPrime
05-23-2013, 07:59 PM
I think tablet support is going to be a great addition to the game. Sure, it was something that was planned anyway, but the stretch money will get the tablet version done sooner. Having a tablet version of the game opens the door to a massive market of players.

And a couple of other things: do people really base their pledges on the stretch goals? I pledged last week and I picked the tier that I wanted most, and I didn't even look at the stretch goals. They are like icing on the cake for me. CZE seems to have an ambitious amount of content planned as it is, so I really don't know what you would have wanted them to add.

I also think you're exaggerating on the "my PP bonus is devalued" bit. You get it for life, the other $250 tiers get it for a year. Lets assume that this game will be successful and lasts for years. The other $250 tiers will get $336 in drafts, and you will get much more than that if you keep playing. The other tiers at that level were a little underwhelming due to how little we know about PvE, so something had to be done to help them get picked up.

Hadin
05-23-2013, 07:59 PM
Granted that this kickstarter is odd, but generally when you get into stretch goals, you get to situations where they tend to go up pretty steadily, The previous stretch goals were all awesome, this one, hugely controversial as it was a screw you to one tier, and generally speaking the numbers support the mediocrity of tablet support. Now you can say that having more people is better for a game, and that's true to an extent, but only if they're the right sort of people, casuals are poisonous, they make games bad, adding tablet support, which is something that was ALWAYS going to happen (another reason it's uninteresting) will lead to a huge influx of 7 year olds playing on their parents ipads, It'll happen, it'll be bad for the game in the long run, and generally it isn't all good.

You do realize that if a game caters to nothing but the competitive players, there will be no game right? Where do you think those competitive players come from? Who do you think pays the bills because there certainly isn't enough income if you only have the competitive players. Look at World of Warcraft. Only a very small percentage of players actually participated in raid content in Vanilla/Burning Crusade. The majority of players were "casuals", and played far less frequently. Many of those "casuals" can't play because they work long hours at jobs that may pay very well, and many of those casuals were more than willing to throw that money at a game despite not being to play it very much.

RECHiD
05-23-2013, 08:02 PM
I think you under estimate the casual crowd. Us folks here on the forums are the hardcore, the early adopters. There are thousands of casuals waiting to discover this game, and they will be overjoyed with the PVE aspect, and some will like tablet support.

This is also a pretty smart move on Crypto's part; the tablet market is exploding, and they seem eager to jump on it.

Even for non casuals this is appealing. I intend to lug my tab around when I go to MTG drafts/ptqs to get in on some Hex action in between rounds.

Hadin
05-23-2013, 08:03 PM
I intend to lug my tab around when I go to MTG drafts/ptqs to get in on some Hex action in between rounds.

This is going to be my ticket to getting through my classes next year!

Ebynfel
05-23-2013, 08:03 PM
The screw you to Pro Players...nah, I still love my tier and wont trade it for anything except Grand King. As for the casuals being horrible for games? tell that to games like World of Warcraft, where over half of their active accounts never even hit max level in the time it has been going. Casuals do not = bad. Casuals = more. Hardcore players may disdain them for having a life outside of the particular game they play, but the fact is that there are a whole lot more casuals i nthe world than there are or will be pros in Hex. Point of fact. Game popularity among casuals = money. And by default, as was said earlier, casual does not = bad player. And even if it did, every one of them who drafted with you gives you another auto win by your logic, so why is that bad?

TheRhys
05-23-2013, 08:04 PM
correlation != causation. Just because a new stretch goal was released AND the amount of money being pledged has dropped doesn't mean that one is responsible for the other. Perhaps instead of assuming there is a correlation based on your own bias against tablets (because it is quite clear how little you think of them) you could actually look at the facts instead of stating that one is directly influencing the other, and so must be a fact.

I see, you have facts that dispute my claim? Oh you don't, welp yeah gonna stick with the logical conclusion.

Yes I realize that correlation and causation are different, but the actual evidence supports my claim. The grand king and pro player sold out before the tablet reveal, they added the much coveted draft bonus, they made it permanent, and numbers continue to decline. Obviously if it was the pro players being sold out, they would have had a huge influx when they added a years worth. Now, yes those other tiers have sold a few, we can't say if this was because of the draft bonus, or simply because the other tiers were sold out. Considering it's several over the last 4 days since PP sold out, even before the draft bonus was announced/folded in, I think it's a large part that they were just peoples 2nd choices and they talked themselves into going 250. Once again, logical conclusion from data. Had they jumped by 30-100 sales after the draft bonus, a supposed $364 value bump, then we would see evidence supporting draft bonus increase. Even better than that, we see the tablet support coming out at the same time, and generally lackluster pledges. It all supports the idea that people don't care about tablet support, for any of several reasons, that it's (A) Something that was coming anyways, why pledge more for it? (B) Actively bad for the game, casuals are toxic. (C) They don't care because they don't have a tablet. Sorry that you wuv your tablet and all, but the evidence supports my claims, feel free to check kicktraq.

Also, I have a tablet, it's a toy, generally speaking it was an impulse buy, it's cool and all, but I'll probably never play hex on it.

bizznach
05-23-2013, 08:04 PM
if you switch you still get 1 free year yeah?
if not you get lifetime free yeah?
either way i don't see how you lose...
as for it sucking and quitting in a year sell your cards.

and why would you care for a bonus in a game that sucks.

every single stretch was a gamble untill they unveiled.
did you pledge 250 because the last stretch was gonna be the motherload?

like really... screw all the things we got in a game that looks like it will be awesome...screw us buying something that sounded awesome when i bought it and it didn't really change except for getting better...

and your bonus is exclusive still...1 year is not lifetime

djlowballer
05-23-2013, 08:06 PM
This is going to be my ticket to getting through my classes next year!

I never understood the attitude of buying laptops and games to "get through" a course. Especially if the course is in Uni and you are paying/going into debt for that class.

ForgedSol
05-23-2013, 08:07 PM
Alright. Have fun with this thread guys. I'm not convinced this isn't a troll. I'm out.

Ebynfel
05-23-2013, 08:08 PM
I see, you have facts that dispute my claim? Oh you don't, welp yeah gonna stick with the logical conclusion.

Yes I realize that correlation and causation are different, but the actual evidence supports my claim. The grand king and pro player sold out before the tablet reveal, they added the much coveted draft bonus, they made it permanent, and numbers continue to decline. Obviously if it was the pro players being sold out, they would have had a huge influx when they added a years worth. Now, yes those other tiers have sold a few, we can't say if this was because of the draft bonus, or simply because the other tiers were sold out. Considering it's several over the last 4 days since PP sold out, even before the draft bonus was announced/folded in, I think it's a large part that they were just peoples 2nd choices and they talked themselves into going 250. Once again, logical conclusion from data. Had they jumped by 30-100 sales after the draft bonus, a supposed $364 value bump, then we would see evidence supporting draft bonus increase. Even better than that, we see the tablet support coming out at the same time, and generally lackluster pledges. It all supports the idea that people don't care about tablet support, for any of several reasons, that it's (A) Something that was coming anyways, why pledge more for it? (B) Actively bad for the game, casuals are toxic. (C) They don't care because they don't have a tablet. Sorry that you wuv your tablet and all, but the evidence supports my claims, feel free to check kicktraq.

Also, I have a tablet, it's a toy, generally speaking it was an impulse buy, it's cool and all, but I'll probably never play hex on it.

The fact that Pro is sold out and unavailable, makes everyone wishing they could get Pro but choosing anything else a second choice for them by default. the fact that the tiers were limited i nthe first place meant that those who didnt want in early would be having to make a choice as to where else to go. I believe, in all honesty, the next 250 tier that gets close to selling out will be gone in a flash after that. Dungeon Crawler looks to be picking up steam now. Collector may. And in no way does their tiers being added to my draft pool for a year devalue my tier, because in the end I'll be playing them. The only people who should be afraid of this announcement are those who fear they will suck at PVP so bad that the other tier buyers will roast them so thoroughly that they will quit drafting for a year.

ratceo
05-23-2013, 08:08 PM
hidden mythic rare goal at 1,7

OysterPrime
05-23-2013, 08:09 PM
(B) Actively bad for the game, casuals are toxic.

That elitist attitude you have is downright lovely. Casuals are toxic? They can very well make or break a game. Like Ebynfel said, WoW has tons of casual players. If it weren't for them, the game would have never had 15 million subscribers at it's peak.

And since you're so unhappy with the tablet stretch goal, what would you have preferred? I'm hearing a massive amount of complaining and no real suggestions from you.

Hadin
05-23-2013, 08:10 PM
I see, you have facts that dispute my claim? Oh you don't, welp yeah gonna stick with the logical conclusion.

This word, I do not think it means what you think it means. You can't Logically conclude anything without using logic, and there is no logic in inferring that the drop in sales must be a result of the tablet announcement. Myself and others in this thread have already states multiple times that there is a direct correlation between the massive spike in pledges a few days ago, and the firesale on Grand Kings. Dungeon Crawler has sold at least 50 - 100, Guild Master has quadrupled since the latest update.

While you are on your evidence kick, you should also find the data relating to "casuals" in World of Warcraft, and see exactly how relevant they are to a game's success.

TheRhys
05-23-2013, 08:11 PM
The screw you to Pro Players...nah, I still love my tier and wont trade it for anything except Grand King. As for the casuals being horrible for games? tell that to games like World of Warcraft, where over half of their active accounts never even hit max level in the time it has been going. Casuals do not = bad. Casuals = more. Hardcore players may disdain them for having a life outside of the particular game they play, but the fact is that there are a whole lot more casuals i nthe world than there are or will be pros in Hex. Point of fact. Game popularity among casuals = money. And by default, as was said earlier, casual does not = bad player. And even if it did, every one of them who drafted with you gives you another auto win by your logic, so why is that bad?

Because there is also PVE, this game is not just about PVP. I'm actually very torn on the casual player aspect myself here, as I like free wins in drafts, but I hate getting screwed in PVE by bads. I'm generally super anti-casual since there are so many of them, and they whine so much (the hypocrisy is not lost on me) about things that aren't broken but they perceive to be, that things that were fine are simply broken to appeal to the casuals. I can't think of a decent change to a game off the top of my head that was inspired by casuals and being casual friendly. Group/raidfinders ruined the wow community more than anything, accountability was completely thrown out the window. 40>25 man raids essentially was the era of welfare epics, no point in bothering to raid it was so easy.

So, I hate casuals in PVE because they bring the game, and the playerbases skillcap down. They're also bad in pvp too, in a group pvp setting. However in individual PVP, I'm all for them. I dunno, I really have super mixed feelings about them. But I am uninterested in tablet support because, It was already coming, and this isn't like oh tablets 6 months earlier, tablets at launch, this is tablets some time, but sooner than we planned.

Hadin
05-23-2013, 08:14 PM
I never understood the attitude of buying laptops and games to "get through" a course. Especially if the course is in Uni and you are paying/going into debt for that class.

It depends on the course. My worst learning style is sitting while some teacher lectures the entire class period. It simply does nothing for me. I gain more out of 30 minutes of studying independently than I do from an hour of poorly-done lectures. A lecturer that is engaging, however, can be very beneficial to me. Some teachers require attendance, yet invest very little into actually making it seem like they value their job as an educator. As a result, I find myself unwilling to invest in some classes.

Additionally, this tablet will be great for killing the inevitable blocks of dead time between classes.

TheRhys
05-23-2013, 08:14 PM
This word, I do not think it means what you think it means. You can't Logically conclude anything without using logic, and there is no logic in inferring that the drop in sales must be a result of the tablet announcement. Myself and others in this thread have already states multiple times that there is a direct correlation between the massive spike in pledges a few days ago, and the firesale on Grand Kings. Dungeon Crawler has sold at least 50 - 100, Guild Master has quadrupled since the latest update.

While you are on your evidence kick, you should also find the data relating to "casuals" in World of Warcraft, and see exactly how relevant they are to a game's success.

Kicktraq data supports my claims, Inferring logical conclusions from data is the way to go. I'm sorry you don't appear to be able to read numbers. If you'd like I know of some excellent tutors I could refer you to.

Casuals have definitely hurt wow more than helped it from a player standpoint. The game is crap compared to what it used to be, and that's why nobody I know still plays it. Sure blizzard loves the casuals they don't know what good is, they don't have enough time to realize the game is bad, they don't play very much and so don't get much value for their 14.99. It's financially great, it's terrible to anybody that actually knows how to play the game, enjoys playing games. It's like you've never been part of something that was good, then exploded in popularity. IT ALWAYS BECOMES SHITTIER.

djlowballer
05-23-2013, 08:16 PM
Yeah but like, you could spend the time in a boring lecture studying for a different subject or getting ahead in the coursework. I understand the "dead time" usage between classes but you only spend like 4 hours a week per subject in class so may as well use that time for the education.

Ebynfel
05-23-2013, 08:17 PM
This is tablets getting a dedicated team as soon as that big red card is lit up. And as for the casuals in PVE, dungeons are solo adventures, and raiding right now consists of a 3 player group. In either case, if you can't find two decents to play with out of the thousands of potential players, look for a guild or start one and aim for that higher end raiding. You have the attitude for it(Not necessarily a bad thing) and if your drive matches the attitude, then finding a group to do the PVE content with should not be hard.

As for the PVP, it looks like 1v1 will be out of the gate first by a long shot. Tablet or no tablet, again, you may need a group of 3 for group PVP...again, 3 people groups is not backbreaking if you're as hardcore as you say you are. Back it up and dont bash the solos so hard and people might like you a little bit more i nthe process.

Madican
05-23-2013, 08:17 PM
Are you seriously saying that World of Warcraft, with about nine-million players, is hurt by "casuals" playing it?

That is...I just have to start laughing. I played WoW since Classic up until a week or so ago and I will be the first to say that the current incarnation is far superior to Classic. Casual players made the game better and they're the ones supporting it! Try bringing back the artificial difficulty, cater to the elites, and the game will die. Blizzard knows this.

TheRhys
05-23-2013, 08:19 PM
That elitist attitude you have is downright lovely. Casuals are toxic? They can very well make or break a game. Like Ebynfel said, WoW has tons of casual players. If it weren't for them, the game would have never had 15 million subscribers at it's peak.

And since you're so unhappy with the tablet stretch goal, what would you have preferred? I'm hearing a massive amount of complaining and no real suggestions from you.

I've actually already suggested they keep the tablet goal, and add a 1.75 million goal, with something else planned. I don't know what they have in the pipeline, I don't know how the game will play, I'm not in a position to say, oh we can add this. Hell, they could expand series 1, or maybe even double series 2 (might be tough on 250k but who knows). Like I said, I'm not in a position to offer up suggestions on what is a feasible stretch goal for them, however I will say that they should pick something, set it at 1.75 million so people can see something beyond tablets, and say OH well I don't like tablets, or don't care about tablets, but that 2nd legendary goal is pretty cool, I'll pledge toward that. Because right now, the game is funded, if you're pledging know, you're either trying to get in early to get a KS exclusive, or you're trying to get a stretch goal, otherwise you'd save your money and play the game when it comes out.

Hadin
05-23-2013, 08:20 PM
Kicktraq data supports my claims, Inferring logical conclusions from data is the way to go.

Casuals have definitely hurt wow more than helped it from a player standpoint.

Kicktraq: The data does not support your claim, you are simply assuming that it is the only possible reason the data could exist. Perhaps if you re-read my post (and others in this thread) you would see that there is more than one possible cause for the trend, and it doesn't have to be from tabletgeddon.

WoW: You remember how WoW had 6 million, 7 million, 8 million players? Well for Burning Crusade, they tweaked the game to be more playable for casuals. For Wrath of the Lich King they tweaked the game to be more playable for casuals. For Cataclysm they tweaked the game to be more playable for casuals. You remember how each expansion resulted in more players, until they could advertise "Over 12 million subscribers?" Casuals. Not hardcore raiders. Not gold farmers. Casuals.

TheRhys
05-23-2013, 08:23 PM
Are you seriously saying that World of Warcraft, with about nine-million players, is hurt by "casuals" playing it?

That is...I just have to start laughing. I played WoW since Classic up until a week or so ago and I will be the first to say that the current incarnation is far superior to Classic. Casual players made the game better and they're the ones supporting it! Try bringing back the artificial difficulty, cater to the elites, and the game will die. Blizzard knows this.

Yes casuals hurt games for players. They're fantastic for companies. But if you have a sufficient number of hardcores to support a game, which presumably this game does based on this ks alone. It's only going to become a worse game by catering to casuals.

Yes WOW can't go back to catering to hardcores, it'd kill the game, there are too many servers, most of the hardcores have moved on, and all the casuals would leave, drying up the revenue that blizzard funnels back in to creating more casual content, leading to fewer updates, which as the trending shows, would cause an overall decrease in subs, as every time they release an expansion they get back a few less accounts than the time before. Wow's dieing, but it's dieing of old age. That doesn't mean that it's a good game from a player perspective.

YES I'm absolutely saying that casuals are toxic to games for players. What is good for the company is often not good for the consumer.

Ebynfel
05-23-2013, 08:26 PM
Yes casuals hurt games for players. They're fantastic for companies. But if you have a sufficient number of hardcores to support a game, which presumably this game does based on this ks alone. It's only going to become a worse game by catering to casuals.

Yes WOW can't go back to catering to hardcores, it'd kill the game, there are too many servers, most of the hardcores have moved on, and all the casuals would leave, drying up the revenue that blizzard funnels back in to creating more casual content, leading to fewer updates, which as the trending shows, would cause an overall decrease in subs, as every time they release an expansion they get back a few less accounts than the time before. Wow's dieing, but it's dieing of old age. That doesn't mean that it's a good game from a player perspective.

YES I'm absolutely saying that casuals are toxic to games for players. What is good for the company is often not good for the consumer.

And how long did the latest Heroic World first take in WoW? Like, weeks? The fact of the matter is, that those guilds who havent given up/broken up/etc are having harder times pulling in the Heroic content of high end raiding, and yet it isn't hardcore friendly? you're right, I guess it isn't considering how many guilds in the last year have abandoned the worldfirst 25 man race altogether because they couldn't handle the rigors of that raiding style.

hacky
05-23-2013, 08:27 PM
YES I'm absolutely saying that casuals are toxic to games for players.

You're toxic for this community.

Madican
05-23-2013, 08:28 PM
The hardcore players never supported the game, even in Classic. Do you recall how many players cleared Naxxramas? 1% of the entire playerbase.

There are not enough hardcores or elites of any game to support it fully. Those casual players you malign are the same ones that will keep Hex alive for years to come. They're also the ones who can leave Hex to die if people like you hate them for not having the same amount of time to put into a children's card game. It's not like the fate of the world hinges on mastering it.

TheRhys
05-23-2013, 08:29 PM
Kicktraq: The data does not support your claim, you are simply assuming that it is the only possible reason the data could exist. Perhaps if you re-read my post (and others in this thread) you would see that there is more than one possible cause for the trend, and it doesn't have to be from tabletgeddon.

WoW: You remember how WoW had 6 million, 7 million, 8 million players? Well for Burning Crusade, they tweaked the game to be more playable for casuals. For Wrath of the Lich King they tweaked the game to be more playable for casuals. For Cataclysm they tweaked the game to be more playable for casuals. You remember how each expansion resulted in more players, until they could advertise "Over 12 million subscribers?" Casuals. Not hardcore raiders. Not gold farmers. Casuals.

Btw, those are 12 million copies sold, active subscribers is usually around 6-7 million, take out the goldfarmers which we can conservatively estimate at about 400,000 accounts between mules, grinders, sellers. then add spammers since, you have to buy a copy to /shout and those accounts get banned asap. The subs aren't huge, copies sold is. Granted it's great for the company, it's bad for players, the quality of the game is decreased, any strategy has been taken out, and the game now constantly holds your hand all the way to 90.

Kicktraq: Your explanations don't fit the data and are rejected. The timelines don't synch up. PP GK sold out before the decreases in pledges. I'd accept as being a fundamental aspect of kickstarter where funding drops off, but the game was blowing through stretch goals at an increasing rate. then suddenly the final one is announced and funding drops from double the average to half the average. YEAH I'm sure it's because the moon aligned with neptune in the house of sagitarius. Or yaknow it could be the simplest most likely explanation, people don't care about tablets.

I"M NOT EVEN SAYING CHANGE THE TABLET GOAL. I could give 2 shits about it. I'm saying add another one, after it, make it cool and see what happens.

bizznach
05-23-2013, 08:31 PM
god i hate wow geeks

TheRhys
05-23-2013, 08:32 PM
You're toxic for this community.

No, you see I generally leave everybody alone once it's too late to do anything, then I sit back and watch. I will warn people of actions which the consequences of are easy to see coming, and generally avoidable. I'm not even saying don't support tablets, I'm saying add something else on after tablets and see what your sales do.

bizznach
05-23-2013, 08:33 PM
why add anything?most people sound fine with what they have

TheRhys
05-23-2013, 08:34 PM
And how long did the latest Heroic World first take in WoW? Like, weeks? The fact of the matter is, that those guilds who havent given up/broken up/etc are having harder times pulling in the Heroic content of high end raiding, and yet it isn't hardcore friendly? you're right, I guess it isn't considering how many guilds in the last year have abandoned the worldfirst 25 man race altogether because they couldn't handle the rigors of that raiding style.

You're thinking days. The world first hardcore heroics were done within days of the patch. I know as a matter of fact that in WOTLK, IC was cleared in epics from burning crusade. A guild on my server did it just to prove how easy the game was. And in protest of replacing all their gear with greens.

Hadin
05-23-2013, 08:34 PM
Btw, those are 12 million copies sold, active subscribers is usually around 6-7 million

Kicktraq: Your explanations don't fit the data and are rejected. The timelines don't synch up. PP GK sold out before the decreases in pledges.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverchiang/2010/10/08/blizzard-on-world-of-warcrafts-12-million-subscribers-and-its-upcoming-mmo-successor/ *ahem* I hope forbes is a reputable enough source for data. 2 seconds of google-fu found this for me, perhaps you should have done the same.

http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=23549&page=23 If you look at when myself and others posted about the Grand Kings just running out (5/21) and at http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/cze/hex-mmo-trading-card-game/dailypledges.png where the largest single day of pledging occurs (5/21) you will see that you are in the wrong.

Edit: enjoy the "data"

Kagim
05-23-2013, 08:34 PM
So, wait, should I cancel my Pledge then?

I'm a "casual" player. I have a job and a wife and outside friends I hang out with. I planned to play for a few random games once or twice after work and draft on the weekends, buy boosters and have fun.

However, since I can't put the time The Rhys seems to demand I obsess over the game apparently I am poisonous to the game.

I mean hey, I had no desire to see WoW get softened up like it did, and rather then see Raids get broken down I was one of those pesky "casuals" who just wanted to see more varied content added.

I mean, hell, I used the words "have fun" when describing my desire to play this game. Hell, I guess I am already poisoning this game. Wanting to just have fun and take it easy playing.

TheRhys is totally right. I and everyone else who cant dedicate at least three to seven hours a day playing this game should just cancel our pledges, and maybe light our computers on fire. That way our evil noob germs will never effect him.

TheRhys
05-23-2013, 08:35 PM
why add anything?most people sound fine with what they have

I'm not saying add a reward, I'm saying add a new goal. As these few people The vocal minority (yes I'm also the vocal minority) seem fine, but once again, the data supports the point that no, people are not terribly interested in the final stretch goal, Not only that but if you check the KS comments, people are either asking for Windows 8 support, or saying "meh tablets kinda disappointing"

Madican
05-23-2013, 08:36 PM
You're thinking days. The world first hardcore heroics were done within days of the patch. I know as a matter of fact that in WOTLK, IC was cleared in epics from burning crusade. A guild on my server did it just to prove how easy the game was. And in protest of replacing all their gear with greens.

Icecrown Citadel was not cleared in all greens, Naxxramas was. And that was because Blizz didn't do a massive gear shift like they had with BC.

At least get your facts straight if you even played.

OysterPrime
05-23-2013, 08:37 PM
You're toxic for this community.

I agree with this. Elitists are worse for games than casuals. Look at MOBAs and how new players can rarely play a game and not get yelled at. If you'd actually construct an argument other than "casuals are good for companies, but bad for players" I might take you seriously.

TheRhys
05-23-2013, 08:40 PM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverchiang/2010/10/08/blizzard-on-world-of-warcrafts-12-million-subscribers-and-its-upcoming-mmo-successor/ *ahem* I hope forbes is a reputable enough source for data. 2 seconds of google-fu found this for me, perhaps you should have done the same.

http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=23549&page=23 If you look at when myself and others posted about the Grand Kings just running out (5/21) and at http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/cze/hex-mmo-trading-card-game/dailypledges.png where the largest single day of pledging occurs (5/21) you will see that you are in the wrong.

Edit: enjoy the "data"

Activision stockholder reports/meetings talk about falling subscriptions. The numbers published and advertised are copies sold. It really doesn't matter what forbes says, my stockholder report is more accurate.

Yes, those days are the single most pledged days, certainly, I'm not disputing that. I'm saying that when they added tablet support 5/22 and even added in the draft bonus from the 2 most popular tiers, the pledges dropped to 1/4th of what they had been. So once again, you're bad at data.

TheRhys
05-23-2013, 08:41 PM
Icecrown Citadel was not cleared in all greens, Naxxramas was. And that was because Blizz didn't do a massive gear shift like they had with BC.

At least get your facts straight if you even played.

I said epics, And I was absolutely talking about IC not naxx. Yeah nax was cleared in WOTLK greens. It wasn't hard at all. Guild on my server did it lol.

Ebynfel
05-23-2013, 08:42 PM
You're thinking days. The world first hardcore heroics were done within days of the patch. I know as a matter of fact that in WOTLK, IC was cleared in epics from burning crusade. A guild on my server did it just to prove how easy the game was. And in protest of replacing all their gear with greens.

now check out something current, I'm talking latest patches for Pandaria, Rhys, not WotLK. look for Ra-Den. it took weeks.

Madican
05-23-2013, 08:43 PM
It wasn't cleared in BC epics either.

Icecrown was the final raid tier in Wrath, any gear from BC would mean a tank gets destroyed. Your hyperbole makes you look really foolish just so you know.

bizznach
05-23-2013, 08:44 PM
maybe all the people complaining like greedy asses is what is turning people off from KS...either that or its just normal...2 very valid potential reasons...or maybe they heard its leet only and decided to not bother

djlowballer
05-23-2013, 08:47 PM
The shareholder report should show that Activision generates over 200% ROI every month on current subscriptions alone and they only spend ~50 mil per year maintaining the game.

TheRhys
05-23-2013, 08:49 PM
I agree with this. Elitists are worse for games than casuals. Look at MOBAs and how new players can rarely play a game and not get yelled at. If you'd actually construct an argument other than "casuals are good for companies, but bad for players" I might take you seriously.

I did, I asked anybody to name a single change made for casuals that made that game better? homoginizing buffs? Nope everything is less unique so it's counter to the purpose of increasing raid viability. Raid finder? Derpitude + anonimity = ninjas/jerks. I can't think of a way that I was positively affected by the casualization of any game. But can rattle off several ways I was negatively affected.

Here's the other thing, I'm not elitest, I'm meritocritous. I judge people based on how they've earned. At the same time, yeah I've had crap experience with casuals. Be it in MMOs, Mobas, FPS. They're either unwilling or unable to learn when you try to help them, they then get in your face and generally are huge douchehats. That doesn't mean I don't try. But I'm REALLY tired, I've been doing this crap for a very long time and I've noticed the patterns. It's not hard to see coming. When you have a large number of people, you'll have a large number of entitled asshats. Because a large population of humanity is entitled asshats, certainly Americans. Yes I'm American, many of us are cool, many of us are not. I love my country, but I certainly could do without a large chunk of the people who live here. I'm sorry to rant, I understand some people have different life experience than I've had... but dude come on, you really think listening to casuals who don't understand things like game longevity, replay value, and accomplishment, in regards to their short schedules and thing things should be given to them because they pay a monthly fee is healthy for a game?

TheRhys
05-23-2013, 08:50 PM
The shareholder report should show that Activision generates over 200% ROI every month on current subscriptions alone and they only spend ~50 mil per year maintaining the game.

OH definitely, I'm not saying it's not lucrative, I'm saying that the numbers advertised as X subscribers are not the actual numbers, it's copies sold, since every copy comes with a 1 month subscription.

Rhodes
05-23-2013, 08:51 PM
Being obnoxious and insulting usually isn't going to win people over to your side. I mean, you're already fighting an up-hill battle considering you're original premise is merely an assumption. But, by all means, keep going. You only ostracize yourself further. ;)

bizznach
05-23-2013, 08:51 PM
wich people get the ol' american boot?

Mushroom_C1oud
05-23-2013, 08:51 PM
Whaaaaat no way! I can't believe nobody cares about playing on their overpriced underpowered toys as opposed to a PC/laptop.

No but seriously, It's a little disappointing, It's something that was already bound to happen, it's not something they were ignoring, and the bonus isn't even for getting it in at launch. I feel like the ball was significantly dropped on this. And the sharp decrease in pledges pretty reliably show this. I dunno maybe you guys should add a 2nd legendary that is something people want, so that people will get the idea that they need to power through this 1.5 million to get to the 1.75 million goal that seems cool. Because honestly, there being more casuals in a game doesn't help me any. If anything it hinders me, as now I have to deal with them. Oh and the fact that the other 250 tier bonuses don't really stack with my current one, that also sucks a bit, so even if I felt the need to pledge more because the stretch goal was something I wanted as opposed to something that was going to happen anyways, and I'm somewhat against, I still probably wouldn't, due to the lack of stacking of the drafts and such.

This whole last few days has been kind of a huge kick in the nuts to me, The lgenedary stretch goal is underwhelming, the rewards are uninteresting or downright infuriating though now I'm just pissed at cze in general as opposed to being annoyed about the stretch goal. I don't want to seem ungrateful, but at the same time, $250 is a lot of money, and now there's a lot of uncertainty involved in this. If this is how they'll handle problems in the future I don't know how long I'll be playing. Will my exclusive lotus garden stop being exclusive? What if they decide to give everybody a year long lotus garden, then won't the lotuses be severely devalued? What if the game is garbage and I only play for a year, at that point I got no unique bonus for my tier, where every other 250 got some pve bonus and a pvp bonus. Now everybody will say, oh so switch, yeah I could switch, but then if I play for more than a year I lose the coolest bonus to me. It's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. Also I can't speak with my wallet, because they don't care, my 250 isn't the final 250, it's a drop in the bucket and it's not going to matter to them. Also when my bonus was exclusive when I pledged it, and it no longer is, that's kinda crappy.

TL: DR Tablet support is not as popular as they anticipated, perhaps they should add a 1.75 million tier with something else cool on it so people will power through the 1.5m tier to get to it. pledges have dropped immensely since the reveal, data supports.

Bahahahaha, ignorance isn't always bliss

Hadin
05-23-2013, 08:52 PM
Yes, those days are the single most pledged days, certainly, I'm not disputing that. I'm saying that when they added tablet support 5/22 and even added in the draft bonus from the 2 most popular tiers, the pledges dropped to 1/4th of what they had been. So once again, you're bad at data.

You aren't disputing that they are the most pledged days. You did claim repeatedly that the sudden drop off in pledges was not immediately following the day GK sold out, 5/21 (which you have now admitted is in fact the case). As much as I enjoy a good discussion, this right here is a circle jerk and nothing more.

TheRhys
05-23-2013, 08:52 PM
It wasn't cleared in BC epics either.

Icecrown was the final raid tier in Wrath, any gear from BC would mean a tank gets destroyed. Your hyperbole makes you look really foolish just so you know.

Yes Icecrown was the final raid tier in wrath, but guess what, It WAS EASY, A there was up to a 25% buff to stats, B at this point tanks were crit immune from their specs and didn't require defense any longer. C They had sufficient skill/healer skill to do it. You could get an incredible amount of health and avoidence with sunwell gear. It happened, you saying it never happened doesn't matter since it did.

TheRhys
05-23-2013, 08:55 PM
You aren't disputing that they are the most pledged days. You did claim repeatedly that the sudden drop off in pledges was not immediately following the day GK sold out, 5/21 (which you have now admitted is in fact the case). As much as I enjoy a good discussion, this right here is a circle jerk and nothing more.

Actually I said that they dropped after those sold out, and that even the addition of the coveted draft bonus to the other tiers wasn't enough to bring them up. So obviously if those 2 tiers were so good, adding their bonus to the other tiers would bring in additional funds. OR more likely those tiers sold out, due to the stretch goals/the mysterious legendary stretch goal, then everybody got there, we'd sold them all, they saw the new stretch goal, saw the draft added in, and went meh.

Gwaer
05-23-2013, 08:55 PM
Bahahahaha, ignorance isn't always bliss
^ Nicely done.

Madican
05-23-2013, 08:56 PM
1. The 25% buff was at the final weeks before Cata launched and was for the normal modes, so more people could see the content.

2. Heroic difficulty turned the buff off. No "hardcore" raider would even think of running with it on anyway.

3. Heroic LK fight alone would wreck anyone in BC epics. It demanded high skill, good gear, and constant awareness. It most certainly was not easy.

bizznach
05-23-2013, 08:56 PM
i liked the part where you brought kicking ppl out of america into it...lets go back to that!
now thats what i call leet speak!

TheRhys
05-23-2013, 08:57 PM
Being obnoxious and insulting usually isn't going to win people over to your side. I mean, you're already fighting an up-hill battle considering you're original premise is merely an assumption. But, by all means, keep going. You only ostracize yourself further. ;)

Yeah It's an assumption backed up by data. You could even call it a conclusion if you were big on language. Or a Hypothesis if you will, though that's designed to be tested, oh wait? Did I propose a test, yup I did, add another stretch goal, and see if pledges pick up. silly me and my scientific method.

TheRhys
05-23-2013, 08:58 PM
i liked the part where you brought kicking ppl out of america into it...lets go back to that!
now thats what i call leet speak!

I wasn't saying kick anybody out of america, I was saying kill them duh. If you simply kick out all the stupid entitled crappy people, they'll make some other country suck.

Yes that's a joke, Yes the original was also a joke

Gwaer
05-23-2013, 08:59 PM
Actually I said that they dropped after those sold out, and that even the addition of the coveted draft bonus to the other tiers wasn't enough to bring them up. So obviously if those 2 tiers were so good, adding their bonus to the other tiers would bring in additional funds. OR more likely those tiers sold out, due to the stretch goals/the mysterious legendary stretch goal, then everybody got there, we'd sold them all, they saw the new stretch goal, saw the draft added in, and went meh.

If that were even remotely close to being true PP and GK slots wouldn't fill up immediately after someone vacates them. Less than 5 seconds every single time one becomes available. Those tiers are still the highest value even after the buff to the other 250s. You're wrong, dead wrong, completely wrong, nothing you say about hex is right, or about kickstarters, or math or logic. Your entire life is a lie. Everything you've ever believed is probably wrong. The world would be a better place without you in it, and so would this community. I know that's a terrible thing to say, but sometimes the truth hurts.

hacky
05-23-2013, 08:59 PM
No, you see I generally leave everybody alone once it's too late to do anything, then I sit back and watch. I will warn people of actions which the consequences of are easy to see coming, and generally avoidable. I'm not even saying don't support tablets, I'm saying add something else on after tablets and see what your sales do.

Get over yourself. You just insulted pretty much everyone I play games with, both digital and tabletop. And all you can think of is the money "your product" will make. Let me know what game you've designed that's been ruined by "casuals", because all I see is a pathetic elitist "gamer".

Daer
05-23-2013, 09:00 PM
I wasn't saying kick anybody out of america, I was saying kill them duh. If you simply kick out all the stupid entitled crappy people, they'll make some other country suck.

Yes that's a joke, Yes the original was also a joke

Suicide is never the answer.

Rhodes
05-23-2013, 09:01 PM
Get over yourself. You just insulted pretty much everyone I play games with, both digital and tabletop. And all you can think of is the money "your product" will make. Let me know what game you've designed that's been ruined by "casuals", because all I see is a pathetic elitist "gamer".

You forgot to mention the part about false sense of achievement.

TheRhys
05-23-2013, 09:01 PM
Anyways as the final post in this thread. You've all demonstrated either blind stupidity, refusal to accept what's laid in front of you, or the inability to present a cohesive argument, with perhaps the exception of Hadin. I leave you to wallow in your stupidity, congratulations, ignorance has once more won the day. You might consider forming a religion, I hear those traits are in high demand in that sector.

bizznach
05-23-2013, 09:03 PM
we...won?

Gwaer
05-23-2013, 09:03 PM
Anyways as the final post in this thread. You've all demonstrated either blind stupidity, refusal to accept what's laid in front of you, or the inability to present a cohesive argument, with perhaps the exception of Hadin. I leave you to wallow in your stupidity, congratulations, ignorance has once more won the day. You might consider forming a religion, I hear those traits are in high demand in that sector.

Wrong again, that wasn't the final post in the thread, this is another one. Can't you get anything right =(

Hadin
05-23-2013, 09:04 PM
we...won?

I wish I had a little flag so I could wave it Monty Python style.

Gwaer
05-23-2013, 09:06 PM
I'm pretty sure that we have all suffered an emotional toll on this one. I am not sure the price we paid was worth the results. Though sadly I was catching up reading everything and missed my chance to participate.

Ebynfel
05-23-2013, 09:08 PM
I'm pretty sure that we have all suffered an emotional toll on this one. I am not sure the price we paid was worth the results. Though sadly I was catching up reading everything and missed my chance to participate.

Didn't miss much. bad troll is bad. but it was a fun little foray.

OysterPrime
05-23-2013, 09:08 PM
I'm pretty sure that we have all suffered an emotional toll on this one. I am not sure the price we paid was worth the results. Though sadly I was catching up reading everything and missed my chance to participate. You really didn't miss out on anything. TheRhys' entire stance was "tablet support was a crappy stretch goal" and "casual gamers are toxic."

Rhodes
05-23-2013, 09:10 PM
And apparently only casuals buy tablets...

Ebynfel
05-23-2013, 09:15 PM
And apparently only casuals buy tablets...

no, he had a tablet. Only casuals buy them, and USE them

Hadin
05-23-2013, 09:15 PM
no, he had a tablet. Only casuals buy them, and USE them

I keep my tablet on my desk so my 64 oz baja blast mountain dews don't ruin my expensive casual desk.

Ebynfel
05-23-2013, 09:16 PM
I keep my tablet on my desk so my 64 oz baja blast mountain dews don't ruin my expensive casual desk.

+1 :)

Rhodes
05-23-2013, 09:28 PM
I keep my tablet on my desk so my 64 oz baja blast mountain dews don't ruin my expensive casual desk.

lol

Gwaer
05-23-2013, 09:30 PM
+1 for the sentiment, -10 for baja blast mountain dew =(

Hadin
05-23-2013, 09:31 PM
+1 for the sentiment, -10 for baja blast mountain dew =(

People like you are why the United States is losing the war on terror!

Liokae
05-23-2013, 09:40 PM
People like you are why the United States is losing the war on terror!

Baja Blast not being available in retail stores is why the United States is losing the war on terror.

Tyrfang
05-23-2013, 09:40 PM
More like...People like you are the reason the United States is losing the war on Diabetes.

Hadin
05-23-2013, 09:41 PM
More like...People like you are the reason the United States is losing the war on Diabetes.

6', 175 lbs, and almost 30, but thanks for playing ;)

Ebynfel
05-23-2013, 09:41 PM
If drug dealers started dealing canned baja blast, just think of how the war on drugs would start going

Tyrfang
05-23-2013, 09:47 PM
6', 175 lbs, and almost 30, but thanks for playing ;)

I meant Lionke's comment about making Baja Blast available in retail stores.


Baja Blast not being available in retail stores is why the United States is losing the war on terror.

Hadin
05-23-2013, 09:49 PM
I meant Lionke's comment about making Baja Blast available in retail stores.

Ah Lol. I fully support his efforts though. baja blast is amazing!

Nine9nevamine
05-23-2013, 09:53 PM
Maybe we should play chicken with hex and boycot 1.5 million and see if they still come out with tablet support

Ebynfel
05-23-2013, 09:56 PM
There's no point 9, because they plan to do it anyways. The 1.5 M stretch means they hire a specialist team then and there to make it happen rather than doing so somewhere down the line.

KeplerVerge
05-23-2013, 09:56 PM
If this game comes out with tablet support, there's a high probability I will buy a tablet for the sole purpose of playing it.

Mushroom_C1oud
05-23-2013, 09:58 PM
It's too bad the game or the tablet support won't be available for my drive across the states this summer.

Dallas
05-24-2013, 03:59 PM
Saw an interview with Cory where he mentioned this is a game you can get tcg group play on your own schedule, the tablet support really enhances that ability and I am super pumped that I will be able to enjoy this game anywhere and really hoping they can deliver a smooth play experience close to the actual game. Building decks and testing how the deck plays out is a great way to pass time away from home ;)

Madican
05-24-2013, 04:03 PM
Why did you pull this thing back up?

Xexist
05-24-2013, 04:12 PM
Saw an interview with Cory where he mentioned this is a game you can get tcg group play on your own schedule, the tablet support really enhances that ability and I am super pumped that I will be able to enjoy this game anywhere and really hoping they can deliver a smooth play experience close to the actual game. Building decks and testing how the deck plays out is a great way to pass time away from home ;)

We can raid together while on our own respective toilets! Also, hello Yunyuzhan.

Xexist
05-24-2013, 04:13 PM
Why did you pull this thing back up?

You are talking to an Immortal son, pay some respect.

nearlysober
05-24-2013, 04:16 PM
TL: DR Tablet support is not as popular as they anticipated, perhaps they should add a 1.75 million tier with something else cool on it so people will power through the 1.5m tier to get to it. pledges have dropped immensely since the reveal, data supports.

- Stretch goals were never driving sales... the insanely popular packages were.
- The insanely popular packages sold out.

- The currently "slowness" of current pledges is to be expected, the big news broke and there is no urgency to bid now due the time left.
- The ever increasing sales of the last week was not to be expected, most Kickstarters do not follow that pattern.

- You don't speak for everyone, just because you don't like tablet support doesn't mean it sucks.

Learn how to analyze data before you derive your conclusions. Or if you insist on following flawed logic then perhaps you would like to buy my tiger repelling rock:
Ever since I've had this rock on my desk, I haven't seen a single tiger in the office.

It totally works, data supports.

Madican
05-24-2013, 04:18 PM
You are talking to an Immortal son, pay some respect.

Not when said Immortal revives a troll topic. Should have been left dead.

stiii
05-24-2013, 04:29 PM
So what are the odds that the OP is in fact a casual rather than a pro?

I somehow doubt this guy has won any TCG tournaments

Hatchet
05-24-2013, 04:41 PM
I am not disappointed with the final goal, although I do wish it had more of a purpose instead of a natural progression. I would have liked to see the GenCon dinner lowered to grand king and have an eligible RSVP list (selfish since I go to gen con every year).

TheMuffMuff
05-24-2013, 04:44 PM
Still the best final strech goal for me and my friends. Nothing beats hex on the couch after a hard day. Tabled time!

Tyrfang
05-24-2013, 04:56 PM
You are talking to an Immortal son, pay some respect.


Why did you pull this thing back up?

I don't see anything disrespectful in that statement.

Xexist
05-24-2013, 05:13 PM
I don't see anything disrespectful in that statement.

Maybe disrespectful wasnt the right word, but Im not going to begrudge anyone who backed this game to the tune of 5 grand bumping a dead thread.

Madican
05-24-2013, 05:16 PM
Troll threads are worse than dead threads. Dead threads can have discussion going again. Troll threads get the wrong kind of discussion going again.

Dallas
05-24-2013, 05:31 PM
Quite a few vocal people were not very happy with the last stretch goal and the initial post is a view some people take. There is nothing troll about this thread, he might have a different opinion after everyone showed him the oh so obvious error in his ways but its still a viewpoint.

Like I said I think the tablet support is great and just because my views oppose the OP doesn't make his thread a troll thread, calling it out as such is probably closer to trolling.

Madican
05-24-2013, 05:33 PM
If you read the OP's posts in this thread you'd know it was a troll thread. He didn't have anything close to logic, ignored facts, and hyperbole/lies were plentiful in all of his posts.

The definition of troll is someone who says something inflammatory for the purpose of causing a reaction. He fits that definition pretty well.

Dallas
05-24-2013, 05:40 PM
He obviously believes what he is saying, which is not saying it for the reaction. If we are going to guess at other peoples intentions I think your trying to fit the description to the person and not letting it happen the other way around. Of course assumptions cant be confirmed...

Talreth
05-24-2013, 06:17 PM
He obviously believes what he is saying, which is not saying it for the reaction. If we are going to guess at other peoples intentions I think your trying to fit the description to the person and not letting it happen the other way around. Of course assumptions cant be confirmed...

Just because someone repeats the same thing over and over doesn't necessarily mean he believes it. Take Yasi..

Ebynfel
05-24-2013, 06:26 PM
He obviously believes what he is saying, which is not saying it for the reaction. If we are going to guess at other peoples intentions I think your trying to fit the description to the person and not letting it happen the other way around. Of course assumptions cant be confirmed...

Except that his argument changed pretty much every page, and was full of outdated fallacy more than not.

Read the whole thing if you havent and try to see what we mean

Dallas
05-24-2013, 06:38 PM
Still doesn't make him a troll, he still believes what he says, nothing has changed. I read it, I already said my views differ from his, this whole thing doesn't matter, I'm throwing my 2 cents in and someone was mad about it? Starting thread fifty? on the subject would of just made someone else mad... can't keep all of em happy so not going to sweat it ;)

Talreth
05-24-2013, 06:47 PM
Welp, I guess I'm super late to this thread but I didn't feel like getting engaged in it. However, Dallas has used his blood magic to pull it from the grave, and my 2 cents is that I highly doubt casuals will have an effect on the game outside of the PvE content, which I view as kind of a side project anyways. I don't think this game will have a super intense focus on like raiding or doing dungeons or whatever like other mmos where that is literally all you have to do at endgame. HOWEVER, I do think that unless a boss fight is nigh impossible because it relies on RNG or something PvE content should very rarely be scaled down, players should just get better.