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DrVanPorcine
05-23-2013, 10:50 PM
Will it be possible / accepted to multibox this game for pve content?

If yes, i'll keep my Grand King and Pro Player in different accounts. And maybe I will be tempted to pledge another time on another account to multibox x 3 (for raids)

Yasi
05-23-2013, 11:05 PM
PvE/PvP-wise, I don't see why not. Tournament-wise, probably not allowed.

Qorsair
05-23-2013, 11:56 PM
I haven't seen the confirmation personally, but it's been said that CZE will not allow the same credit card to be used on more than one account. If this is true, it would appear they're against it. You could always contact them through the Kickstarter and ask.

ramseytheory
05-24-2013, 03:56 AM
I haven't seen the confirmation personally, but it's been said that CZE will not allow the same credit card to be used on more than one account. If this is true, it would appear they're against it. You could always contact them through the Kickstarter and ask.

I've heard the same thing, but that it's being used as more of an anti-botting measure than anything else - they're not planning to ban multiple accounts, they just want to make it non-trivial to do. Definitely double-check with CZE though.

WSzaboPeter
05-24-2013, 06:29 AM
With account-to-account training I can't see any reason for people to team up if multiboxing is allowed. I mean you will most likely be able to build 3 different raid decks with your card collection and farm the raids alone. I think that is against what CZE planned. Raiding should be an experience of playing together, a cooperational game, not tripleboxing tryout.

Yasi
05-24-2013, 06:31 AM
I'm a lone wolf. AWOOOOOWA.

Stok3d
05-24-2013, 06:38 AM
I currently 5-box Wow. It's actually quite easy and gives huge benefits.

However with CZE, aside from drafting, i don't see any advantage at all. Actually, i think it would be a hindrance. There is no advantage other than not having to find others to run the raid.

Hopefully CRZ puts in a "Looking for Raid / Dungeon" feature like WoW did which will take away the only advantage that boxing would give.

Yasi
05-24-2013, 06:40 AM
Hopefully CRZ puts in a "Looking for Raid / Dungeon" feature like WoW did which will take away the only advantage that boxing would give.
What I hated in most MMOs is people multiboxing and partying with themselves which lead to the scenario where it was impossible to find a party. This feature would be a really great addition to prevent the spam as well.

Fleckenwhatever
05-24-2013, 07:05 AM
Hopefully CRZ puts in a "Looking for Raid / Dungeon" feature like WoW did which will take away the only advantage that boxing would give.

Isn't "not having to deal with the unwashed masses" reason enough?

houjix
05-24-2013, 07:08 AM
Isn't "not having to deal with the unwashed masses" reason enough?

Rolling solo, 3 deep. That's where it's at.

Of course, people could do the unthinkable and try to make friends so they aren't constantly pugging.

caffn8d
05-24-2013, 07:13 AM
I pretty much view it like I view most things in life. If it's not hurting someone else then play how you want and let others do the same.

Yasi
05-24-2013, 07:14 AM
I pretty much view it like I view most things in life. If it's not hurting someone else then play how you want and let others do the same.

There's an Auction House though.

Fleckenwhatever
05-24-2013, 07:20 AM
Rollling solo, 3 deep. That's where it's at.

Man, doing that when I played a MUD was awesome. 4 bots set on autofollow with macros. So good.

zaku
05-24-2013, 11:10 AM
With how guilds banks are going to work, 3boxing raids seems really fun.

Fireblast
05-24-2013, 11:15 AM
For real prize tournaments you'll have to share your real ID (address, name, etc...) so I don't see how you can multi-box that

For casual PvP and PvE I don't see the issue.

~

LexC
05-24-2013, 11:24 AM
As I said in the other thread:

I would like to have an account ready to get my skeptical friends interested in this game. I don't particularly want to give them access to my main Account, but having a second account with 2 decks pre-built and ready for an introduction would be sweet.

Also there is the Tablet support, if Tablets will have access to the AH I wouldn't mind browsing it for sweet deals while playing a PvE game.

[EDIT] lol Fireblast, you and I posted the same message in two different Topics :P

Lidralyn
05-24-2013, 11:32 AM
Man, doing that when I played a MUD was awesome. 4 bots set on autofollow with macros. So good.

Ah MUDs...I still miss them from time to time...macros and making all the accounts work perfectly together was just so priceless.

Fireblast
05-24-2013, 11:33 AM
[EDIT] lol Fireblast, you and I posted the same message in two different Topics :P

Double topics, double replies.
I've even edited it a bit :D

~

elsimer
05-24-2013, 01:28 PM
For real prize tournaments you'll have to share your real ID (address, name, etc...) so I don't see how you can multi-box that

For casual PvP and PvE I don't see the issue.

~

So they won't let my wife and I play in the same tournament? I haven't heard that!

stiii
05-24-2013, 01:33 PM
I currently 5-box Wow. It's actually quite easy and gives huge benefits.

However with CZE, aside from drafting, i don't see any advantage at all. Actually, i think it would be a hindrance. There is no advantage other than not having to find others to run the raid.

Hopefully CRZ puts in a "Looking for Raid / Dungeon" feature like WoW did which will take away the only advantage that boxing would give.

What are these huge benefits that you get from wow that you wouldn't also get from Hex?

Fireblast
05-24-2013, 01:38 PM
So they won't let my wife and I play in the same tournament? I haven't heard that!

You have the same ID and credit card?

~

Madican
05-24-2013, 01:38 PM
I honestly kind of hope HEX outright bans multiboxing. One account per person and if they find more the extras are banned.

Yasi
05-24-2013, 01:40 PM
I honestly kind of hope HEX outright bans multiboxing. One account per person and if they find more the extras are banned.

It's sort of a grey area. There are people who plays with their relatives, spouses, and friends that may share the same IP. They mentioned something with credit cards or w/e, but who knows how that will work.

Madican
05-24-2013, 01:48 PM
If they made it so that a single machine can only run one instance of the game it would cut down on the number of potential multiboxers by a lot, since it would require two rigs, two keyboards, two mice, etc, instead of using a keygen program to clone.

Kami
05-24-2013, 01:50 PM
If they made it so that a single machine can only run one instance of the game it would cut down on the number of potential multiboxers by a lot, since it would require two rigs, two keyboards, two mice, etc, instead of using a keygen program to clone.

Until you realize most people who are knowledgeable enough to multi-box will likely also know how to virtualize machines.

stiii
05-24-2013, 01:50 PM
You have the same ID and credit card?

~

I guess they could be be named like Alex :)

Madican
05-24-2013, 01:53 PM
Until you realize most people who are knowledgeable enough to multi-box will likely also know how to virtualize machines.

That's something that can be anticipated and directly countered though. Heck, that's a big part of what I'm going to college for: anticipate potential threats to security so methods can be thought of to counter them. If you know they'll use a VM program then you can work from that angle to find a defense.

It's not perfect, but things rarely are.

Talreth
05-24-2013, 02:10 PM
I want to pledge collector now for the 2x alt art because I was going to go 2x king, but I sort of want it on an alt acc for the 1 year free drafts. I wouldn't multibox, just have sep accs :\ siiigh but I probably won't.

BossHoss
05-24-2013, 02:22 PM
I honestly kind of hope HEX outright bans multiboxing. One account per person and if they find more the extras are banned.

As Yasi said it is a grey area. Id like to raid with the kids

ForgedSol
05-24-2013, 02:50 PM
If they made it so that a single machine can only run one instance of the game it would cut down on the number of potential multiboxers by a lot, since it would require two rigs, two keyboards, two mice, etc, instead of using a keygen program to clone.

I figured a lot of people would run one account on their PC and one on their tablet.

Fireblast
05-24-2013, 03:01 PM
if some guy wanna have 10 accounts on 10 computers, with 9 fake IDs and Credit Cards, masking his IP etc...

Why would it bother you?

As long as you need to prove your identity to compete in the cash supported tournaments, it's not an issue.

~

Madican
05-24-2013, 03:09 PM
if some guy wanna have 10 accounts on 10 computers, with 9 fake IDs and Credit Cards, masking his IP etc...

Why would it bother you?

As long as you need to prove your identity to compete in the cash supported tournaments, it's not an issue.

~

Because if he's doing all ten of those accounts in PvE then he's accumulating ten players' worth of loot and gains a huge advantage over everyone else on the PvE side. That's not good in any way.

Fireblast
05-24-2013, 03:11 PM
Because if he's doing all ten of those accounts in PvE then he's accumulating ten players' worth of loot and gains a huge advantage over everyone else on the PvE side. That's not good in any way.

People will play 12hrs a day while I have a job and will probably struggle playing my 3 weekly drafts, I'll be behind PvEwise, I don't see the issue?
Everyone is allowed to allocate more resources to get ahead of others, weither it's time, money, computers or whatever is irrelevant.

~

Hatchet
05-24-2013, 03:25 PM
I am not concerned with PVE/PVP multi-boxing. The problem would be if it is allowed at any point during tournaments! A lot of OTCG's turn a blind eye to tournament multi-boxing until the money rounds (when they verify identity). When playing a tournament the more decks you can see from the top players the better prepared you are when it is time to play for

Madican
05-24-2013, 03:32 PM
There is a key factor for F2P games that is the tell of whether they will live or die: Do they sell power?

That's why multiboxing is wrong. It is selling power. Power to control the economy of the game, power to accumulate ten players worth of loot to a central account, power to unite with each other during drafts and hand the win to a specific account. Things like this mean the death of a F2P game because it turns into either an arms race or people dropping out because they can't conceivably match it.

There's a difference in your examples. True, someone may spend 12 hours on the game and get ahead in PvE, but there's nothing stopping you from doing the same within the bounds of the game. What limits you is your external life. You both can run dungeons, you both can do draft tournaments, your potential is not exclusive.

Multiboxing on the other hand is exploiting the rules of the game to give an unfair advantage that cannot be mitigated by the game itself. While you can also put in the time to match the 12 hour player without changing anything about the game, they cannot put in the money to match someone who has ten accounts without drastically changing the game.

Fireblast
05-24-2013, 03:35 PM
Abusing PvE and Drafts is no issue, it's just a bother for less fun.

The competitive PvP has to be balanced, and someone farming draft's prize support and PvE items/cards is not jeopardizing that

For the sake of the argument Kami is worse than 1000000000 multiboxer, he'll have everything in the game on day 1 of each new release.

~

ForgedSol
05-24-2013, 03:36 PM
I am not concerned with PVE/PVP multi-boxing. The problem would be if it is allowed at any point during tournaments! A lot of OTCG's turn a blind eye to tournament multi-boxing until the money rounds (when they verify identity). When playing a tournament the more decks you can see from the top players the better prepared you are when it is time to play for

At the same time, a guild/team can also scout if they just communicate with each other. I definitely see the danger in multi-box drafting after it was pointed out to me if you happen to be in the same queue as yourself. But in constructed, you're still paying two entry fees and your deck is what you bring and multi-boxing doesn't affect what decks other people bring. I'm not convinced that constructed multi-boxing is especially dangerous. The reason to ban it would be more esthetic. It would look dumb to see the same person in the Top 8, and have to give out byes if they're matched up against themself, especially if both decks make it to 1st and 2nd. It would be impressive, but still look dumb.

Fireblast
05-24-2013, 03:37 PM
You pay 8*$7 to get 32 boosters by multi-boxing 8 accounts, what an abuse
(You could do the same with friends in a draft and do the exact same)

Worse than multi-boxing is 2+ players behind the screen and brainstorming to find the right plays.
We need to have people play with a webcam to prove they're alone behind the comp!!!

~

Madican
05-24-2013, 03:41 PM
Abusing PvE and Drafts is no issue, it's just a bother for less fun.

The competitive PvP has to be balanced, and someone farming draft's prize support and PvE items/cards is not jeopardizing that

For the sake of the argument Kami is worse than 1000000000 multiboxer, he'll have everything in the game on day 1 of each new release.

~

The vast majority of HEX players will be on the PvE side. PvE is what's going to be keeping the entire game alive, so it's in Crypto's best interest to make sure no one is able to unbalance it. You can't just say it's PvE so it's fine, because if it dies then your PvP is going with it.

Fireblast
05-24-2013, 03:43 PM
So far there is no PvE competition.
The fact that someone is heavily farming the PvE doesn't stop me from playing and joining a guild to group up and do raids.


~

Fireblast
05-24-2013, 03:44 PM
The vast majority of HEX players will be on the PvE side. PvE is what's going to be keeping the entire game alive, so it's in Crypto's best interest to make sure no one is able to unbalance it. You can't just say it's PvE so it's fine, because if it dies then your PvP is going with it.

In WoW there are players in full max iLvl for each of their specs and people with entry gear level, both have their fun.

~

Madican
05-24-2013, 03:54 PM
That's because they don't interfere with each other.

WoW uses a very simple, but important mechanism that prevents players from dominating the other fields of the game. The Bind On Pickup mechanism. The gear they earn in raids, craft (with some exceptions), and get through PvP cannot be sold to anyone else. It belongs to that character alone. Same applies to any currency or high-end items like Spirits of Harmony, Chaos Orbs, Frozen Orbs, etc. Multiboxers tend to be bots following gathering programs, meaning they only hurt the server economy through the AH. Nothing else.

HEX does not have the BoP mechanism. Meaning that if someone figures out how to successfully pull together ten accounts and steamroll PvE, without Crypto stopping them, then everything will be broken. They'll be able to churn out tons of top cards to sell, devaluing everyone's in the process, attain vast amounts of wealth to command the auction house that affects PvE and PvP, and gather more information during drafts that can let them crush the single opponents under a united group.

Multiboxing would kill HEX without a doubt.

ForgedSol
05-24-2013, 03:58 PM
I don't quite follow the logic in saying that in WoW there isn't a problem with the bots because they only affect the auction house, but Hex multi-boxers will hurt the game because they can sell through the auction house. I was following fine until that last bit of the first paragraph.

Madican
05-24-2013, 04:02 PM
I didn't say there's no problem with bots, I said bots can only hurt one part of the game. They can't do PvE and they keep getting broken in PvP. They're still a problem but not as big as they could be.

stiii
05-24-2013, 04:40 PM
I find it very interesting that it is the MMO players saying multi boxing is some horrible problem, have any of you tried playing three events at the same time on magic online or something similar?

Ten account is a joke there are probably less than 100 players in the world who could play ten magic online events all at once as any reasonable level.

Stok3d
05-24-2013, 07:32 PM
I don't quite follow the logic in saying that in WoW there isn't a problem with the bots because they only affect the auction house, but Hex multi-boxers will hurt the game because they can sell through the auction house. I was following fine until that last bit of the first paragraph.

That's because his logic is flawed. The only problem of boxing in Hex is with drafting--not PVE. However even w/o a guy playing multiple account, drafting will have the inherent risks of a handful of guildies / friends all on vent together trying to get into the same draft. Boxing won't make a difference outside of drafts--it's actually more of a pain to do.

Also, there won't be "boxing"... it's simply going to be one guy playing three accounts Individually. Whoever started with these definitions doesn't quite understand how they're derived. WoW=1 button pushed broadcasts that key stroke via macros to all the other accounts. In Hex, this is impossible--even if you use the same deck. Every hand will always be different--hence at best it could be one guy playing 3x different hand individually which isn't boxing in the traditional sense. This guy has no advantage other than he doesn't have to look for ppl to group up with. WoW there is an advantage--it's called focus fire.

elsimer
05-29-2013, 06:21 PM
You have the same ID and credit card?

~

no, but we have the same last name and the same physical address not to mention the same IP address. Someone previously was suggesting that they limit tournament participation based on some of those factors.

Gwaer
05-29-2013, 06:23 PM
no, but we have the same last name and the same physical address not to mention the same IP address. Someone previously was suggesting that they limit tournament participation based on some of those factors.
Someone also previously suggested that the world was flat.

I think you'll be fine.

WizBang
05-29-2013, 06:44 PM
I honestly kind of hope HEX outright bans multiboxing. One account per person and if they find more the extras are banned.

I don't have any problem with them not allowing people to multibox, but having more than one account? I was planning on starting a vanilla account at launch. No access to all of my booster packs, exp bonuses, etc... I wanted to see how far I could get without spending any cash on the account at all.

I wouldn't play it at the same time as my other account, and it would be pretty obvious from the credit cards used that I was probably the same person :)

The extra account would be strictly PvE.

IndigoShade
05-29-2013, 07:00 PM
I'm not exactly familiar with bot scripting, so I really have no idea how advanced you could expect them to be. I would just hope that the AI they've spent presumably years developing is capable of beating them, making bots a non-issue anyway. Multi-boxing is a different matter, but again I don't really see it being that big of a problem outside of tournaments.

funktion
05-29-2013, 07:09 PM
The only problem of boxing in Hex is with drafting...

I'll admit it confers a slight boost in EV, but the dude multi-box drafting is going to get paired against himself fairly frequently in round one and lose all the profit he made over the course of 5-6 drafts in one fell swoop.

There's so few people who can actually maintain enough focus to keep track of signals and what is wheeling, that it'll be so infrequent that I'm not concerned about it. Not to mention, if they're capable of multi-boxing and doing it really well, then it means that they can repeatedly cash out in 8-4 ques and they're better off joining two seperate ques at the same time. That's where the higher EV is and why you see high level players stream it that way somewhat often.

Drafting is still low EV though... but god it's so much fun.