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dogmod
05-24-2013, 11:22 AM
You may need to have more than 4 of a card or more than 1 piece of a particular equipment if you want those cards or equipment piece to reoccur in your keep defense... Could increase market value of equipment/card even further...

jai151
05-24-2013, 11:25 AM
Why would you assume this?

It doesn't make sense to me that you would need to lock off cards for defense, I would think it would be just another saved deck.

Lochar
05-24-2013, 11:27 AM
Why would you assume this?

It doesn't make sense to me that you would need to lock off cards for defense, I would think it would be just another saved deck.

I'd run under the assumption that if you can set multiple decks up for keep defense, they may not share between defense decks. But I don't see it withholding cards from your normal pool. Otherwise best time to attack is when everyone's in a draft.

LexC
05-24-2013, 11:27 AM
I believe (don't know how true this is) we can use a single card in multiple decks, if that's true we only need 4 of each card to build any variation of any deck.

MatWith1T
05-24-2013, 11:28 AM
You will be able to use the same cards from your collection in different decks that construct.

What Keep Defense will require though is total speculation. If it is a straight up player constructed deck vs player constructed deck, then the defender is going to be at a severe disadvantage because it will be played by AI. So I imagine your Keep Defense deck will be significantly different, and we don't have enough info to theorycraft what cards and equipment (I assume no equipment because it is PvP) are necessary.

Tathel
05-24-2013, 11:29 AM
EDIT: Said this under the assumption that if you are setting 2 decks in keep defence they both draw from card pool that limits only decks used in keep defence.

Yeah Makes it worth while to keep commons past four copies, which is probably a good thing.

Although we will have to wait and see whether modes like this are popular enough that they have any real effect on other rarities. I'm not sure if i would bother trying to collect 8 of a legendary rare so that i could be better at keep defence

But if it was fun and popular I could see it also effecting uncommons or lower value rares

MrCwis
05-24-2013, 11:31 AM
I'd run under the assumption that if you can set multiple decks up for keep defense, they may not share between defense decks. But I don't see it withholding cards from your normal pool. Otherwise best time to attack is when everyone's in a draft.

You don't use your own cards in a draft.

But yes when there is a tournament worth something attack everyone in it, since there best deck will be getting used.

ForgedSol
05-24-2013, 11:34 AM
I can see it going either way, that no deck affects the other, or the defense is considered as one whole unit. Like a team draft where you build three decks from a shared pool.

Lochar
05-24-2013, 11:34 AM
You don't use your own cards in a draft.

But yes when there is a tournament worth something attack everyone in it, since there best deck will be getting used.

Yeah, yeah. That's what I meant. I swear!

dogmod
05-24-2013, 11:52 AM
I wasn't necessarily saying that cards you are using in a dungeon or pvp couldn't be used in keep defense.. I think my implication was more along the lines of the fact that you will have multiple decks/maybe mercenaries involved in keep defense and those combinations could be viewed as "one deck unit" so that if you only had 4 of a card type you would not be able to have 4 of each of that card in multiple decks within that unit...

While this might be a smidge limiting, it also makes sense to me and would add another layer to collecting, loot, card management, etc...

Tyrfang
05-24-2013, 11:55 AM
Keep Defense and constructed tournaments don't necessarily have the same requirements.

I can see a strategy where your Keep Defense deck is just nearly impossible to kill, or is a mill/bounce/control deck to just annoy anyone who comes against you. =)

dogmod
05-24-2013, 11:56 AM
Keep Defense and constructed tournaments don't necessarily have the same requirements.

I can see a strategy where your Keep Defense deck is just nearly impossible to kill, or is a mill/bounce/control deck to just annoy anyone who comes against you. =)

Exactly and if someone wants to have 3 of those annoying decks in a row with the same cards they should be forced to have 3 sets... the alternate view point could be that they will keep the max "4 per deck" rule in force on keep decks so that you will NOT be able to use more than 4 of a single card across multiple decks... this could destroy the "uber" deck strategy and also make it more interesting for those attacking a keep.

FireSummoner
05-24-2013, 11:57 AM
The first couple of decks are just to be annoying or luck based trying to throw you off your game and end with a strong straight forward one to take advantage.

Vibraxus
05-24-2013, 12:02 PM
You will be able to use the same cards from your collection in different decks that construct.

What Keep Defense will require though is total speculation. If it is a straight up player constructed deck vs player constructed deck, then the defender is going to be at a severe disadvantage because it will be played by AI. So I imagine your Keep Defense deck will be significantly different, and we don't have enough info to theorycraft what cards and equipment (I assume no equipment because it is PvP) are necessary.

I really hope any keep defense things will be PvE so I can level up a merc or 3 and throw them in my keep as a guardian, and make them a killer deck to run. Otherwise if its all just PvP cards, why bother, its just another tournament type and of PvP constructed vs another PvP constructed.

Plus remember, you can use all PvP cards in PvE, so bring your best constructed PvP deck...or mod it with PvE stuff...lets make this keep defense an all out war.

houjix
05-24-2013, 12:03 PM
Exactly and if someone wants to have 3 of those annoying decks in a row with the same cards they should be forced to have 3 sets... the alternate view point could be that they will keep the max "4 per deck" rule in force on keep decks so that you will NOT be able to use more than 4 of a single card across multiple decks... this could destroy the "uber" deck strategy and also make it more interesting for those attacking a keep.

Trust me, if your keep defense was the same deck x3, someone will either craft the deck to beat it and crush your defense, or not even bother since it won't be worth their time. You're better off with 3 wildly varying decks that no single deck should be able to defeat.

Vibraxus
05-24-2013, 12:05 PM
I wasn't necessarily saying that cards you are using in a dungeon or pvp couldn't be used in keep defense.. I think my implication was more along the lines of the fact that you will have multiple decks/maybe mercenaries involved in keep defense and those combinations could be viewed as "one deck unit" so that if you only had 4 of a card type you would not be able to have 4 of each of that card in multiple decks within that unit...

While this might be a smidge limiting, it also makes sense to me and would add another layer to collecting, loot, card management, etc...

I like that idea.

Omegahugger
05-24-2013, 12:08 PM
It could be cool if there was two types of Keep Defense, one with PvP cards only and one that allowed PvE, merc, equipment and such.

Mostly because guarding your castle with the people you've picked up along the way would give it an awesome feel. It would also allow people who don't have money to spend to participate, which I feel is a good point. (the PvP part was mainly in case someone thought that turning into a dragon was overpowered)

Lochar
05-24-2013, 12:09 PM
They've said that you would get rewards if your Keep successfully defended from attackers as well, so there's a fun incentive there.

Vibraxus
05-24-2013, 12:14 PM
It could be cool if there was two types of Keep Defense, one with PvP cards only and one that allowed PvE, merc, equipment and such.

Mostly because guarding your castle with the people you've picked up along the way would give it an awesome feel. It would also allow people who don't have money to spend to participate, which I feel is a good point. (the PvP part was mainly in case someone thought that turning into a dragon was overpowered)

Lets put it this way. Keep defense is somebody (group) trying to break into my guild (home). You think Im going to take that lightly and limit how I stop them? No way man, its war. Ill throw the kitchen sick at ya if I have to....If you just want to use PvP cards, play a constructed tourny, or challenge others to a duel....you wanna raid my guild....well brace yourself.

Hibbert
05-24-2013, 12:14 PM
Another fun wrinkle to keep defense will be designing decks the AI will play well. While the AI is supposed to know how all the cards work together, I wouldn't count on it to be able to use a combo deck effectively. I'm sure there will be cards the AI "understands" better than other cards. Since the AI will most likely be patched and improved along the way, there will be a lot of opportunity to continually tweak your defense decks(beyond just adding cards from new sets).

dogmod
05-24-2013, 12:39 PM
Trust me, if your keep defense was the same deck x3, someone will either craft the deck to beat it and crush your defense, or not even bother since it won't be worth their time. You're better off with 3 wildly varying decks that no single deck should be able to defeat.

I agree but that doesn't mean that there might not be cards (particularly artifacts.... maybe even lotuses) that you wouldn't want in multiple decks... If I have a kick ass keep... and no one is really defeating it that often you don't think I won't put a few lotuses in my last 1 or 2 decks on the chance that someone makes it that far? Also if rewards escalate for people whos keeps are doing well defending all the more reason, much like they have described reward escalation for raid bosses...

possibilities are endless and fun :)

Tyrfang
05-24-2013, 12:40 PM
I wonder if you can view a player's saved decks, similar to the way you could view a player's saved rune pages or talent tree.

jai151
05-24-2013, 12:42 PM
I wonder if you can view a player's saved decks, similar to the way you could view a player's saved rune pages or talent tree.

I would hope that's an optional toggle. "Make Deck Public."

While I wouldn't mind showing off some of my creations, I'd rather not everyone knew what I was building for the next tournament or using in defense (or attack).

dogmod
05-24-2013, 12:45 PM
I would hope that's an optional toggle. "Make Deck Public."

While I wouldn't mind showing off some of my creations, I'd rather not everyone knew what I was building for the next tournament or using in defense (or attack).

Keep defense guild war? You may attack the other guilds keeps for points for wins, - points for losses... the first time you defeat a keep of the other guild is worth 3-5 bonus points, guildmasters or assigned people can play raid bosses as alternates to keep defense during this time... make guilds more than just +10% experience and hang outs...

FireSummoner
05-24-2013, 12:47 PM
I would also assume they would give you the chance to run against your own keep to see how it plays. I think that would be amazing fighting decks I built and working out ways to make them better.

jai151
05-24-2013, 12:47 PM
Keep defense guild war? You may attack the other guilds keeps for points for wins, - points for losses... the first time you defeat a keep of the other guild is worth 3-5 bonus points, guildmasters or assigned people can play raid bosses as alternates to keep defense during this time... make guilds more than just +10% experience and hang outs...

Not quite sure why this was in response to me, but...

I like the idea

Tyrfang
05-24-2013, 12:48 PM
The 10% EXP bonus just feels so weak...at least Raid Leader has an effect that doesn't go away once you hit the level cap.

dogmod
05-24-2013, 12:48 PM
Not quite sure why this was in response to me, but...

I like the idea

Er your talking about tournaments in a keep defense thread is what prompted me to think of the idea ;o

Vibraxus
05-24-2013, 01:07 PM
The 10% EXP bonus just feels so weak...at least Raid Leader has an effect that doesn't go away once you hit the level cap.

You can level up mercs, many different champions, and cards (well does the bonus go to leveling up cards?) Will be hard to cap out everything.