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Hatchet
05-24-2013, 02:57 PM
I am late to the party (kickstarter) and with no middle ground left between $250 and $2500, I selected the Collector tier and will keep an eye on the last day as people drop out and hope to grab a grand king. In any case for those of you who have been here awhile and played other online TCGs, what do you believe the mean life expectancy is going to be?

I have been looking for a new OTCG for a while now, and have been playing mainly Japanese/Korean games over the past years. Most of the those have a good 1.5 - 2 year span before a drop off then collapse into maintenance mode, the few American based OTCG's I have played averaged slightly longer but quickly ended the same way.

Given the history my expectations are conservative but I like Cryptozoic as company so I am hoping the pre-hype can be maintained post launch and reignited when the drop off happens.

What does everyone else think?

Fireblast
05-24-2013, 03:04 PM
I think that game is far ahead of any other online TCG and that it should live 10+ years.

I trust CZE to design/develop good cards and sets.
Now they'll also have to learn risk/impact assessment on online games :)

~

jai151
05-24-2013, 03:09 PM
They've got a very good basic understanding of the game system, they've got enough complexity to make it a draw to pros, and they've got enough accessible content to draw everyone else. I think the game will have some legs.

nicosharp
05-24-2013, 03:12 PM
If CZE delivers everything mentioned on their kickstarter page (including all stretch goals) within a reasonable amount of time.... I give them 5 years minimum of having a well populated player base. The potential accessibility with full tablet support will far surpass any other full functioning TCG title, and most successful MMO's.

The only thing that will need to be carefully planned at this point is the Auction Houses, and how PvE loot interacts with PvP loot in trade, and how Gold interacts with Platinum(assuming this is the equivalent to MTGO event tickets / real dollars). If they go the route of Diablo3, this can get really ugly, really fast. There will need to be some balance to value vs. easy accessibility. Where someone could make money by having a really good card, but other players wouldn't need money to acquire money cards with enough time invested.

Fireblast
05-24-2013, 03:15 PM
PvE won't bring PvP cards.
If PvE cards have any value that means people will trade PvP cards for them, then it's fine as there is still value :)

The Tournament cash prize and checking $ out of the game are the most important points.
We know that they're working on making the first work and worldwidely and that they'll close their eyes on 3rd party secondary market.

Other points are security and infrastructure.

Basically our $1.5M should go to hire lawyers, IT security experts and IT architects (that's what I'd do if it's not already done)

~

ForgedSol
05-24-2013, 03:19 PM
If this takes off, you can bet that Wizards will at throw a lot more money at MTGO. If wizards can actually get it right is the question. Hex needs to ramp up fast getting organized play set up and needs to grow the player base for the time when that happens.

Fireblast
05-24-2013, 03:21 PM
MtG will not die because of HEX.

Serious MtG players (those that have a shot at top8ing GP and getting $ from Pro Tour) will still focus on MtG.
Other MtG players could play both or just HEX :)

P.S : Talking about MtG and not MTGO cause they are so linked together that as long as the physical version is healthy, MTGO will still exist (for playtesting and Q'ing purpose)

~

MugenMusou
05-24-2013, 03:40 PM
I am late to the party (kickstarter) and with no middle ground left between $250 and $2500, I selected the Collector tier and will keep an eye on the last day as people drop out and hope to grab a grand king. In any case for those of you who have been here awhile and played other online TCGs, what do you believe the mean life expectancy is going to be?

I have been looking for a new OTCG for a while now, and have been playing mainly Japanese/Korean games over the past years. Most of the those have a good 1.5 - 2 year span before a drop off then collapse into maintenance mode, the few American based OTCG's I have played averaged slightly longer but quickly ended the same way.

Given the history my expectations are conservative but I like Cryptozoic as company so I am hoping the pre-hype can be maintained post launch and reignited when the drop off happens.

What does everyone else think?

Japanese/Korean I assume TCG like Carte? I guess nobody knows how long this will last, but considering how much Pledge it has gotten so far, and of course the content of the game shown, I see pretty long life span on this. At least 10 year (just a random number) but probably longer. Of course it depends on how popular the game becomes once it is released.

But this is made by relatively major TCG brand company, and now heading to mobile platform, and game itself looks better than most other TCG (personally like to say almost the best). Price point of what I am seeing so far seems great (failed reason of Carte).

Of all things, I think the most strength comes from Free opportunity on PvE, and Mobile platform support. Given the lack of anything close to HEX on mobile market, that alone will keep the momentum (if not anything else).

Personally, never pledged and never spent $500 in advance, but I did because I see so much potential on this. And if resell is not possible (unlikely) then I know I can still get some good time on this game that pays off the cost.

ForgedSol
05-24-2013, 03:45 PM
I'm thinking looong term. Wizards is doing what they can to keep physical stores in the loop and relevant against an ever increasing digital world. But they're also bound by designing towards the physical world. And I guess it's perfectly legal to have almost exactly the same ruleset as Magic so it is an obvious place for ex-Magic players to turn to that wanted to go digital but couldn't because MTGO is lacking.

There will also eventually be a digital tcg that can finally start putting a dent in the TCG market place that will make Wizards take a second look at things. Physical space is limited and digital space is essentially limitless. Is Magic getting into the hands of as many people as would be interested in it? Probably not. The success of Duels of the Planeswalkers in drawing in more players shows that there is room for expansion. The market is not saturated so those players are up for grabs. Will Hex be the one to do it? No idea. But it is going to happen eventually. Maybe not in 5 years. But 10? 20? 25? At some point it is going to happen.

The other question is if sticking so closely to Magic's ruleset is the way to go, or the try something completely foreign is the better option, like what StoneBlade is doing with SolForge

MugenMusou
05-24-2013, 03:53 PM
As far as MTGO argument goes, Magic has its own follower and that will stay like Fireblast said from Physical world. But digital as ForgedSol says is still open. Only reason MTGO is there is because of real physical tournament and its name. But interface is still not great. The main issue that Wizard cannot make PlanesWalker into a real Magic with all the same cards available as in MTGO, I believe is the market control. They set MTGO booster pack price same as that of physical card. If they do that for Planes Walker, it won't be popular. But then selling for bargain devalues the MTGO --> Physical Magic.

So HEX has great thing going for them, which is the price point. But for casual mobile gamers, $2/pack may still seem a bit high so I truly hope as they did here on Kickstarter, every once and a while (like Christmas special etc.) they provide ultra discount of those to draw those players in. But of course, HEX got FREE option too, which is not like FREE but severely limited. I really think HEX PvE alone with 300 cards is more than many digital TCG out there.

Hatchet
05-24-2013, 04:30 PM
Japanese/Korean I assume TCG like Carte?

Carte would be a well polished example! Astral Towers will be a run of the mill flop on launch type, and LoN being an example of pre-hype then a quick fall after 2 years. I see a lot of people saying 10 years but maybe they do not understand the question? I was not meaning when the servers are pulled I was asking about the game life expectancy in reference to player base. After the drop off point when a mass player base movement happens it spirals in most online TCG's this happens around year and half to two year mark. The game it self lives on in maintenance mode with a blip here and their of activity but it trends downwards until it can no longer make money and the plug is pulled.

Given the people working on this and the management involved I have hopes, but they are tempered by previous OTCG's.

stiii
05-24-2013, 04:34 PM
Anyone who says they know it will last 2/5/10 years is just guessing. They have as much info as you which isn't very much.

Yasi
05-24-2013, 04:38 PM
As far as MTGO argument goes, Magic has its own follower and that will stay like Fireblast said from Physical world. But digital as ForgedSol says is still open. Only reason MTGO is there is because of real physical tournament and its name. But interface is still not great. The main issue that Wizard cannot make PlanesWalker into a real Magic with all the same cards available as in MTGO, I believe is the market control. They set MTGO booster pack price same as that of physical card. If they do that for Planes Walker, it won't be popular. But then selling for bargain devalues the MTGO --> Physical Magic.

So HEX has great thing going for them, which is the price point. But for casual mobile gamers, $2/pack may still seem a bit high so I truly hope as they did here on Kickstarter, every once and a while (like Christmas special etc.) they provide ultra discount of those to draw those players in. But of course, HEX got FREE option too, which is not like FREE but severely limited. I really think HEX PvE alone with 300 cards is more than many digital TCG out there.

Check out EredanITCG, an online trading card game. Been around for 3 years and each of their boosters cost $7.5 for 12 cards. It's also one of the simplest CCG out there as well. $2 per booster is a godsend compared to all the CCGs out there available on Facebook or other online game companies.

Jinuyr
05-24-2013, 04:52 PM
Since other, less advertised games are still doing well and some are even still in full production, I have no doubt about the game being around for at least 10 years.

Take these two "TCGish" games for example:

Sanctum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctum_(game)) survived for about 2 years with the original company then gave up its assets to another company that kept it around for another 8 years. The current company (http://www.playsanctum.net/) that holds it has access to the game and database but is likely to be a pet project for now with no real community left to keep it going for years. At its peak, it had about 100,000 registered players. It was never really heavily advertised but it had a good following during its first couple of years.

PoxNora (https://poxnora.station.sony.com/index.do) is still alive and well. Now that they were purchased by SOE, the cards sets have been coming in steadily. This game has been around for almost seven (7) years now and doesn't really show any signs of slowing down to the point of closure because SOE is still putting in some money to keep it up.

If you have ever played those two games, there is one thing that really prevented its success according to many players and that was the lack of new features that didn't generate direct revenue. What I mean by this, it was very easy for these companies to come up with more boosters, more cards and make money off of it. Very rarely was new content given out for free such as new maps, new scenarios, Co-Op mode, etc. Look at League of Legends for example, it took Riot Games quite a while to release a game mode as simple as ARAM (All Random All Mid) since it was all too easy to release one new hero every two weeks around payday and rake in the additional cash. Now, I'm not knocking any of these games since we are simply comparing them and guessing on what Hex's success might be but by the looks of it, Cryptozoic is going to approach development from all sides and not just what makes easy money.

Cory even went as far as mentioning Blizzard's success with World of Warcraft and using a similar formula (minus some of the things that didn't work I assume) to produce a game that has longevity.

Mike411
05-24-2013, 04:53 PM
Cryptozoic have said over and over they're in this for the long haul. They mentioned they have some plans for 3 years from now already, I have confidence this will last an extremely long time.

wallofomens
05-24-2013, 04:57 PM
Wrong thread, lol.

Edit: Still, they have said that they don't expect HEX to die anytime soon and plan to support it for a very long time. I just hope there is enough interest in the game to keep it going.

Tyrfang
05-24-2013, 05:09 PM
I made a similar post about what would happen when the game eventually dies. Sort of got ignored :(

Anyway, I don't expect the game to die out for at least 2-3 years (the WORST CASE SCENARIO.)
Most likely it'll survive as long as long as they commit to producing new content.

The good thing about a TCG based MMO is that the graphics themselves aren't a major factor, and the UI can be updated without overhauling the entire game.

Dallas
05-24-2013, 05:22 PM
The interviews really convey the passion of the people running the game, a group of experienced people who appear to have a plan and confidence in it. They believe they know what it takes to keep interest in a game and there has been a video released with a brief description of what that is.

It feels like this game can go the distance and they are listening to player concerns. The current player base on the forums seem fairly excited about this game so possible problems with the game are on a lot of minds for quite a bit of time, along with foresight by experience at Cryptozoic a lot of angles are covered.

Way to early to be able to predict anything based on the actual game but I'm looking forward to a long game life.

MugenMusou
05-24-2013, 05:34 PM
Carte would be a well polished example! Astral Towers will be a run of the mill flop on launch type, and LoN being an example of pre-hype then a quick fall after 2 years. I see a lot of people saying 10 years but maybe they do not understand the question? I was not meaning when the servers are pulled I was asking about the game life expectancy in reference to player base. After the drop off point when a mass player base movement happens it spirals in most online TCG's this happens around year and half to two year mark. The game it self lives on in maintenance mode with a blip here and their of activity but it trends downwards until it can no longer make money and the plug is pulled.

Given the people working on this and the management involved I have hopes, but they are tempered by previous OTCG's.

I'm glad there is someone else who know about Carte. I had high hope on that game when introduced. Great mechanics, graphics but in the end I think price setting were off. The common cards on the game were way too weak, so players had to buy rares to become more competitive but no way to trade, so had to buy booster after booster. The price point of booster packs were reasonable but was not super cheap either especially knowing you may not able to get the card you want (material system was just money maker for company in my opinion).

The difference I see in HEX (I hope I am right here) are: Mobile support and PvE. Like I said these two should open up much wider audience and keep those audience. So even in the worst case scenario, we should have free players on PvE with their PvE cards playing player vs. player. Obviously, Cryptozoic intention is those people will slowly migrate or pick up PvP once and a while.

I think this is the right strategy, which most other TCG makers did not use. If one tries to copy Magic for price, it will never succeed because if one can pay for Magic, they will play Magic.

Tyrfang
05-24-2013, 05:40 PM
Well, MTGO felt like it's went a decade without UI updates when I played it in 2004.

MugenMusou
05-24-2013, 05:41 PM
Check out EredanITCG, an online trading card game. Been around for 3 years and each of their boosters cost $7.5 for 12 cards. It's also one of the simplest CCG out there as well. $2 per booster is a godsend compared to all the CCGs out there available on Facebook or other online game companies.

Never heard of the game and the price point sound ridiculous. And don't get me wrong $2 per pack is great price point and I think several TCG are following that price point e.g. Carte (when utilized the monthly sales), Infinity Wars etc. Though game like Shadow Era actually goes down as low as 40-80 cents/pack. So general price wise I think with the quality of the game Hex has, $2 is stellar.

But whether to keep the business with hardcore TCG players with 10,000 population vs. additional 100,000 or whatever number may depend on the price point. Once you grab people, and addict them into TCG, they'll spend money. But the first step is always the tricky part.

PvE will hopefully act as the initial grab and rest flows. But I can see people look at game and say but booster pack still cost so much (to the people never played TCG). So if you have once and a while sales, those people may just grab some packs because they see that as an oppoturnity and may actually get hooked that way. Once you are hooked, you may not be able to wait until the next sales.

Personally, my sweet spot and hope is the price is set in such a way so that with trading, we can essentially complete each set around $300 (slightly cheaper than the MTGO).

thereck
05-24-2013, 06:24 PM
two years minimum, 5 years would be stretching it. Any longer and you are betting that this is the next Magic, and that Magic won't increase market share, and finally that this game can take a major market share from the most popular tcg ever made, with no physical cards

Gwaer
05-24-2013, 07:32 PM
two years minimum, 5 years would be stretching it. Any longer and you are betting that this is the next Magic, and that Magic won't increase market share, and finally that this game can take a major market share from the most popular tcg ever made, with no physical cards


I'll take that bet.

Stok3d
05-24-2013, 07:34 PM
This game will be a cash cow and as Cory said that they'll continually reinvest profits into the game... it's not going to be shut down in the foreseeable future. Why stop something that will be making money hand over fist for the cost of some bandwidth and hosting a server?


two years minimum, 5 years would be stretching it. Any longer and you are betting that this is the next Magic, and that Magic won't increase market share, and finally that this game can take a major market share from the most popular tcg ever made, with no physical cards

thereck, not even close. MTG will be fine--MTGO will be devastated. This game is the MTG of digital--it's not going anywhere.

ForgedSol
05-24-2013, 07:50 PM
Well... I think a lot of us are taking that bet considering how much we're backing. I really am clueless about the draw of a F2P MMO as TCG will be to getting players exposed to the game. If that's something that can actually work it'll do wonders for this game. This F2P has the best micro transaction there is, booster packs. It's such a known quantity that it doesn't feel like a micro transaction and is looked as just part of how TCG's work.

My only MMO experience is Ultima Online, and WoW only during the beta. I really have no idea how to anticipate how much people are really going to be valuing gear and all that, and if there will actually be a market that swaps goods between the PvE side to PvP side. If that doesn't happen, if people can't build up PvP decks through the F2P side of things, that will be a big roadblock. That creates a big segregation between the two sides of the game. But if it works, and there is a constant flow of PvE goods for PvP cards and vice versa, then that improves Hex's chances at staying power considerably. There will be so many people who are familiar with the game's rules that can be tempted on a daily basis to, "why don't I check out what this PvP stuff is all about?"

Corpselocker
05-24-2013, 07:58 PM
I wouldn't have backed two scary (for me) priced tiers if I didn't think this was extremely long lived.

For a successful company with many TCG's under their belt, even a mild maintenance mode would be spectacular comparatively speaking. The mobile/tablet dedication will bring in a slew of players who yet to have any TCG background.

My only slight fear is the extra lag between the first set and the second set. If the starting player base can be patient, we have a winner.

Ebynfel
05-24-2013, 08:07 PM
I'll take that bet.

I already took it for $250. Many here have taken it for more. If I didnt think this game could be the digital monstrosity that M:tG is in paper, I wouldnt throw down 250 on a kickstarter for it. I believe in it that much, 250 for my entertainment budget is a lot of money to me.

Ebynfel
05-24-2013, 08:09 PM
This game will be a cash cow and as Cory said that they'll continually reinvest profits into the game... it's not going to be shut down in the foreseeable future. Why stop something that will be making money hand over fist for the cost of some bandwidth and hosting a server?



thereck, not even close. MTG will be fine--MTGO will be devastated. This game is the MTG of digital--it's not going anywhere.

Agreed mostly. I don't believe M:tG is going anywhere, and I do plan to play just the same. But I wont be playing MTGO.

Talreth
05-24-2013, 08:21 PM
I'd say it goes strong for the next few years at least.

Black_Omega
05-24-2013, 08:51 PM
I think we are really jumping the gun here on speculating the product life cycle of Hex.

Look at some older ones like Star Trek or Star Wars CCG, those were each around for about a decade then faded. Then you have Magic the Gathering which has been around for what.. 20 years now or coming up on it? MTG:O has a brutal interface, in my opinion. I will still play it, but it's slow and buggy.

I think the Kickstarter campaign has shown a lot of promise and interest. The game looks great, I love the artwork. The price point is competitive when looking at boosters. And it's online - you have a seemingly endless player base.

What will determine longevity is:

1) CZE's marketing campaign after Kickstarter to bring in fresh blood
2) Development and release of new content/sets (they do an amazing job with the WoW TCG so I don't think this is an issue)
3) How well the Kickstarter playerbase pushes the game by word-of-mouth (this is the best marketing any product can get)

If, in the first year, CZE could get 100,000 active users world-wide they are going in the right direction. I believe MTGO boasts something like 300k users (although I don't know how many are active).

The game has amazing potential. I hope Hex is around for a long time.

Deathfog
05-24-2013, 11:22 PM
Most likely the only way this could die is massive organized competition from WotC, which would likely take some time to get up to speed along with some major culture changes in the company which isn't likely considering Hasbro holds the leash.

Stok3d
05-26-2013, 11:39 AM
Agreed mostly. I don't believe M:tG is going anywhere, and I do plan to play just the same. But I wont be playing MTGO.

I agree 100%

Derium
05-26-2013, 01:56 PM
I was a HUGE fan of Wow TCG. And I was playing it before Crypto was even born. I personally played WoW tcg and watched them save it from the edge. True it was too late to save the game (it's on a MASSIVE decline), but Crypto did a fantastic job on saving it.

Above that, I own a CCG store, and I carry their other lines. Their board games are a blast, and their non-sports cards are HUGE. Not only can I say their quality control is top-notch, but with the WoW TCG game on the decline, I can see them putting A LOT of focus onto this game. Remember guys, they were born to make card games, and they will continue to do so.

P.S. also, if you own a card store. NEVER eBay the Battleground playmats that the players do not want, they won't send you anymore ;)

BohemianStalker
05-26-2013, 01:59 PM
I think we are really jumping the gun here on speculating the product life cycle of Hex.

Look at some older ones like Star Trek or Star Wars CCG, those were each around for about a decade then faded. Then you have Magic the Gathering which has been around for what.. 20 years now or coming up on it? MTG:O has a brutal interface, in my opinion. I will still play it, but it's slow and buggy.

I think the Kickstarter campaign has shown a lot of promise and interest. The game looks great, I love the artwork. The price point is competitive when looking at boosters. And it's online - you have a seemingly endless player base.

What will determine longevity is:

1) CZE's marketing campaign after Kickstarter to bring in fresh blood
2) Development and release of new content/sets (they do an amazing job with the WoW TCG so I don't think this is an issue)
3) How well the Kickstarter playerbase pushes the game by word-of-mouth (this is the best marketing any product can get)

If, in the first year, CZE could get 100,000 active users world-wide they are going in the right direction. I believe MTGO boasts something like 300k users (although I don't know how many are active).

The game has amazing potential. I hope Hex is around for a long time.

we need a good referral system! come and help me to persuade cze :)

Punk
05-26-2013, 02:33 PM
I think we are really jumping the gun here on speculating the product life cycle of Hex.

Look at some older ones like Star Trek or Star Wars CCG, those were each around for about a decade then faded. Then you have Magic the Gathering which has been around for what.. 20 years now or coming up on it? MTG:O has a brutal interface, in my opinion. I will still play it, but it's slow and buggy.

I think the Kickstarter campaign has shown a lot of promise and interest. The game looks great, I love the artwork. The price point is competitive when looking at boosters. And it's online - you have a seemingly endless player base.

What will determine longevity is:

1) CZE's marketing campaign after Kickstarter to bring in fresh blood
2) Development and release of new content/sets (they do an amazing job with the WoW TCG so I don't think this is an issue)
3) How well the Kickstarter playerbase pushes the game by word-of-mouth (this is the best marketing any product can get)

If, in the first year, CZE could get 100,000 active users world-wide they are going in the right direction. I believe MTGO boasts something like 300k users (although I don't know how many are active).

The game has amazing potential. I hope Hex is around for a long time.we need a good referral system! come and help me to persuade cze :)

A referral system is a great idea! Have different tiers so the first person you refer would net you something, and something better when you reach 5 referrals.. so on and so forth.

A referral is only successful when X requirement is met on the new account that was referred. X could equal obtaining level 10 or reaching a certain part of the campaign, for example.

I assume Cyptozoic probably has something like this in the works anyway.

BohemianStalker
05-26-2013, 03:48 PM
A referral system is a great idea! Have different tiers so the first person you refer would net you something, and something better when you reach 5 referrals.. so on and so forth.

A referral is only successful when X requirement is met on the new account that was referred. X could equal obtaining level 10 or reaching a certain part of the campaign, for example.

I assume Cyptozoic probably has something like this in the works anyway.

I presume it too! however I also presumed moving time backwards on your computer would not move time backwards on real money auction house in diablo 3 lol or that some of the toughest neverwinter mmo bosses could be killed by knocking them out of cliff or that xbox one console would be most abou games not TV !

So Id like to be sure :D

silverlocke
05-26-2013, 04:28 PM
If they start dropping the kind of $$$ that WotC drops on rewarding top-end players, this game could last for decades.

Think about it. MtG started in 1993, that was 20 years ago. As of 2011, there were still 12,000,000 players.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering

If CZE really wants to, I have no doubt they can make this a digital dynasty.

Punk
05-27-2013, 08:27 AM
I presume it too! however I also presumed moving time backwards on your computer would not move time backwards on real money auction house in diablo 3...

This. xD

Gridian
05-27-2013, 11:47 AM
Well, I do not know any seers, so I cannot accurately predict the future.

However, I'd be greatly surprised if HEX did not become a smash hit and define the online TCG world. There are many, many TCG's out there but whenever I think of the term "TCG" the first word that pops into my mind is "M:TG". I suspect that HEX will be the same way in the OTCG market.

Therefore, if Crypto keeps the momentum and stays true to their philosophy I expect HEX to be around for Years, if not Decades. After all, HEX will run on PC, Mac and Tablets from the get-go and therefore has the 3 most major non-console gaming platforms under its belt. I can already see myself hopping into a PvE dungeon on the way to work and back for example. :)

Also, the playback support will likely prove to be an act of pure genius... Youtube, MyVideo, even E-Sports archived epic battles. Genius. :)

Hatchet
05-27-2013, 01:23 PM
This got a lot more input than I thought it would given how early it is in development. I think one of the earliest and largest indicators of how the longevity of the game will play out will be the on demand ques. This type of play at will system has died out very quickly in every other OTCG's I have played and usually follows this pattern:


Short burst of popularity
Que's begin to only fire during prime time
Que's stop filling up
Que's only fill during "special" offer weekends
One person loads eight accounts and buffs their competitive score



This transition happens time after time and I have yet to see any company avoid it. I will be paying attention to this as it is usually the indicator of things to come as far as upper managements ability to adapt and balance their reward system.

jai151
05-27-2013, 01:39 PM
Hatchet, man, it's "queue"

Hatchet
05-27-2013, 01:59 PM
The extra ue just makes the word extravagant, no need for it go all Liberace. :p

jai151
05-27-2013, 04:14 PM
The extra ue just makes the word extravagant, no need for it go all Liberace. :p

No, it makes it complete. Since "qu" is treated as one letter, you need the ue to finish the word. Otherwise, it's just "Kwuh" (Or "Kay" if you're Spanish).

Yasi
05-27-2013, 04:31 PM
No, it makes it complete. Since "qu" is treated as one letter, you need the ue to finish the word. Otherwise, it's just "Kwuh" (Or "Kay" if you're Spanish).

Your quay

jai151
05-27-2013, 04:35 PM
Your quay

I don't own a dock.

kuvasza
05-27-2013, 08:06 PM
This is the first game in a long time that really looks like it has that something special that raises it above the rest. It's like that song on the album that stands out. Everything seems to be coming together.

Kietay
05-27-2013, 08:21 PM
♥_♥

Tyrfang
05-27-2013, 08:53 PM
This is the first game in a long time that really looks like it has that something special that raises it above the rest. It's like that song on the album that stands out. Everything seems to be coming together.

I dunno, Star Citizen with Oculus Rift support is like a nerdgasm.

Kilo24
05-27-2013, 10:41 PM
The biggest issue with a new collectible card game and a new MMO alike is getting enough players to achieve the critical mass that makes the game work well. I think they've done made an excellent initial foray into that with the Kickstarter. Even if the game turns out bad, there will be enough people trying to get a return on their KS investments that will stick with the game for a decent time. If the game turns out good (as the majority of indications I've seen suggest), well...

The biggest potential issue here in my mind is server issues from the load of players. It's really hard to accurately predict how much many servers are needed on launch day: guess too high and money gets wasted; guess too low and there's server outages and crashes. I'm guessing that, like most MMOs, it'll have a rough launch (perhaps at both the real launch and the beta), but smooth out things within a week or two.

The other one would be if the game just didn't work like they promised due to bugs and/or other technical issues. That's hard to predict for; I haven't seen any of their previous efforts at launch so I can't comment. But the game is working right now, and that's a strong point in their favor since they've got several months to get it in shape for its beta release.

djlowballer
05-27-2013, 11:10 PM
Your quay

That word is pronounced "Key"

Boogaloo
05-27-2013, 11:13 PM
The biggest potential issue here in my mind is server issues from the load of players. It's really hard to accurately predict how much many servers are needed on launch day: guess too high and money gets wasted; guess too low and there's server outages and crashes. I'm guessing that, like most MMOs, it'll have a rough launch (perhaps at both the real launch and the beta), but smooth out things within a week or two.

Possibly, though Hex has the advantage of (presumably) not having as much information going across the connection to the servers as most MMOS, which tend to require lots of real time interactions between the host and client. A card game, unless it's really poorly optimized, shouldn't require as much strain from servers as your typical third-person MMO.

Then again, there haven't been many successful MMO launch days without issues, so I suppose we will cross that bridge when we get to it. At least Cryptozoic should be able to anticipate demand for the beta, since presumably about 10,000 people from the Kickstarter will want to start playing right away. The release of Scrolls will conveniently happen soon, and may also provide a good basis of comparison for what to anticipate for.

Niedar
05-27-2013, 11:41 PM
The biggest issue with a new collectible card game and a new MMO alike is getting enough players to achieve the critical mass that makes the game work well. I think they've done made an excellent initial foray into that with the Kickstarter. Even if the game turns out bad, there will be enough people trying to get a return on their KS investments that will stick with the game for a decent time. If the game turns out good (as the majority of indications I've seen suggest), well...

The biggest potential issue here in my mind is server issues from the load of players. It's really hard to accurately predict how much many servers are needed on launch day: guess too high and money gets wasted; guess too low and there's server outages and crashes. I'm guessing that, like most MMOs, it'll have a rough launch (perhaps at both the real launch and the beta), but smooth out things within a week or two.

The other one would be if the game just didn't work like they promised due to bugs and/or other technical issues. That's hard to predict for; I haven't seen any of their previous efforts at launch so I can't comment. But the game is working right now, and that's a strong point in their favor since they've got several months to get it in shape for its beta release.

Not to say that there wont't be problems at all during launch but really there should not be any scaling problems at all if they are even remotely competent. A turn based lobby game is incredibly easy to scale up and scale down on demand, so much so that they can be adjusting the number of servers running throughout the day if needed launching more during prime time and shutting them down at night time. So prediction of launch numbers is really irrelevant when you can launch more servers automatically within minutes.

Chance
05-28-2013, 12:38 AM
The biggest problem is PvE Balance, how the fuck do you go about balancing with 650 cards and 1800 equipment available at the start?! Then you have to factor in difficulty for people who don't even know what a TCG is to guys who can break your game with 100 cards revealed? I'm stoked to see what they can do but its going to take them a long while to get it right..

Kilo24
05-28-2013, 01:04 AM
Possibly, though Hex has the advantage of (presumably) not having as much information going across the connection to the servers as most MMOS, which tend to require lots of real time interactions between the host and client. A card game, unless it's really poorly optimized, shouldn't require as much strain from servers as your typical third-person MMO.

Then again, there haven't been many successful MMO launch days without issues, so I suppose we will cross that bridge when we get to it. At least Cryptozoic should be able to anticipate demand for the beta, since presumably about 10,000 people from the Kickstarter will want to start playing right away. The release of Scrolls will conveniently happen soon, and may also provide a good basis of comparison for what to anticipate for.
It's true that it will require less coordination between client and server, but "the most advanced TCG AI ever created" might be a hefty demand on the server. I don't know how intensive the algorithms they use are, but while being run for each player in PVE independently it could be a fair chunk of computation.


Not to say that there wont't be problems at all during launch but really there should not be any scaling problems at all if they are even remotely competent. A turn based lobby game is incredibly easy to scale up and scale down on demand, so much so that they can be adjusting the number of servers running throughout the day if needed launching more during prime time and shutting them down at night time. So prediction of launch numbers is really irrelevant when you can launch more servers automatically within minutes.
Scaling isn't the issue in many games. It's accurately predicting how many servers are a safe bet, and that can be a difficult challenge regardless of whether the estimated number is ten servers or ten-thousand servers. Yes, the computational load is small relative to standard 3D MMOs, but they know that too and may overestimate how many servers they can cut out. They may be able to scale up a too-low number of servers in minutes, but - that being the first time that the system is used in earnest - more technical issues can crop up.

I'm not saying that we should expect a Diablo-3 style catastrophic launch. I'm not saying that we should expect a bad launch relative to most other MMOs. It's just that launches are really damn hard to pull off well. Everything which has been developed inside the company is suddenly put on a crash course with reality; that's when everything truly gets tested regardless of how much they believe they have it working. I'm saying that if there are substantial technical issues with the game, that's probably where they're going to be revealed.

Honestly, it's a strong commendation from me that technical issues during launch are the most pressing issue I see. I doubt that the launch will be a significant issue and don't see anything from Cryptozoic specifically that makes me worry that it will be. I just see the MMO side of the game, and recall a lot of other MMOs that really screwed up.

Khazrakh
05-28-2013, 01:12 AM
The biggest problem is PvE Balance, how the fuck do you go about balancing with 650 cards and 1800 equipment available at the start?! Then you have to factor in difficulty for people who don't even know what a TCG is to guys who can break your game with 100 cards revealed? I'm stoked to see what they can do but its going to take them a long while to get it right..

I don't see PvE Balance as a problem. The alternative route and bonus objective system offers all the tools needed to provide both easy and hardcore content within the same dungeon. Also they already told us about some rulechanging dungeons that are going to happen so your insane first round kill combo deck sometimes just won't work.
Besides - PVP is where the fate of Hex ist decided. Currently there is no real state-of-the-art TCG game out there. MTGO runs a client that feels like it was made 15 years ago, Carte and Champions of Might and Magic are nice but feel like a TCG on rails with not enough interaction and Hearthstone will be too casual.
Hex absolutely could go for decades if everything goes well.

Fireblast
05-28-2013, 03:27 AM
Hex absolutely could go for decades if everything goes well.

CZE had the great idea, now they have some founding, they just gotta hire the right people and keep on growing

~

Shadowelf
05-28-2013, 05:52 AM
The good thing (among others) for online ccgs is that devs can fix a problem asap . U won't have to w8 months for ban lists; everything is an update away. Also cze guys have a long experience with card games so i'd trust them on providing a balanced enviroment. I've been palying wowtcg for years and the game was amazing. For my self i'm here for the long run; that's why i decided to spend so much money on an unrealesed game. The idea of marrying tcg with mmo is amazing, and if they priorize right i think this game is here to stay for years

TZHX
05-28-2013, 06:24 AM
But the WOW TCG wasn't done by CZE, was it? They just got the license four years into the games life (in 2010).

Shadowelf
05-28-2013, 06:32 AM
They managed to save the game from extinction and continued to provide the same quality product. Also the game is based on the best card game platform ever (or the most successfull)-mtg. This plus some nice upgrades and features along with pve (based on the most successfull mmo ever-wow), ensures success in my eyes

ramseytheory
05-28-2013, 06:36 AM
But the WOW TCG wasn't done by CZE, was it? They just got the license four years into the games life (in 2010).

Cory was head of new product development when WOWTCG was made, he was apparently the one who pitched the idea in the first place, and most people in CZE are former Upper Deck employees. So I think it's fair to give CZE credit.

TZHX
05-28-2013, 06:41 AM
I didn't mean to suggest CZE weren't capable (if I thought that, I wouldn't have spent $120 on a game that's not even out yet). It just seemed from your previous post that you were basing a lot of your faith in them from a game they didn't design, and I read your post as saying your experience of the WOW TCG was historical rather than current.

re: PVE balance, I don't think this is something they're concerned with. The impression I've got from several videos given by Cory & Co is that a lot of PVE is just going to be ridiculous; with cards designed to make things entertaining in a way that couldn't happen is a "real" TCG when you're playing against people. More important to my mind is that they strike that level between challenge and accessibility.