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View Full Version : Request: Making Dungeon Crawler and Raid Leader Universal



Vlahn
05-24-2013, 05:41 PM
I'm set on pledging $250 to Crypto for HEX. I'm really torn on the pve tier to choose though, and partly this is because the tiers are not individually what I thought the text indicated they should be.

Dungeon Crawler (only applies to Dungeons)
Raid Leader (only applies to raids)

Seems obvious right? Except the flavour text in the kickstarter tier description uses the words 'all non-tournament pve'. I assumed this meant that Raid Leader bonuses would take affect across Dungeons as well as Raids. However in an email crypto specifically stated RL is exclusive to Raids (meaning DC is exclusive to solo-play Dungeons).

The specificity of both these tiers is what makes them unappealing. I can't honestly decide which I want to go for at the moment, I keep changing my pledge accordingly.

However if Cryto were to state publicly on Kickstarter that these tiers rewards both took affect across all non-tourney pve - including raids and dungeons, then it would go a long way I feel to selling these tiers.

What do others think?

Dallas
05-24-2013, 05:48 PM
Was stated somewhere they wanted to represent the types of players found in an MMO and there is a distinction between the two... that being said it hasn't stopped them from changing tiers before!

edit: i liked the sentiment of MMO archetypes

Mike411
05-24-2013, 05:58 PM
Dungeon crawler may apply to both. I know in WoW raids have been referred to as raid dungeons *shrug*

thereck
05-24-2013, 06:04 PM
double raid gear drops would be super OP

thereck
05-24-2013, 06:06 PM
unless the value for effort when completing a raid was a joke; which would mean the death of their pve

Madican
05-24-2013, 06:08 PM
As I keep saying, we can't really make much of PvE until we know more about the rewards from it. The quality of the cards, the chances at rarer cosmetic things, stuff like that.

thereck
05-24-2013, 06:56 PM
opportunity costs normally keep the avg hour of plays value at about .25 until you can farm top tier dungeons, but it never gets much higher than .50 an hour.

if they introduced 1/100 or 1/1000 bind on pickup vanity items + lockout timers these tiers could be amazing.

Talreth
05-24-2013, 06:59 PM
opportunity costs normally keep the avg hour of plays value at about .25 until you can farm top tier dungeons, but it never gets much higher than .50 an hour.

if they introduced 1/100 or 1/1000 bind on pickup vanity items + lockout timers these tiers could be amazing.

They said all of the items will be trad(e?)able.

Socks4615
05-28-2013, 11:40 AM
I asked Cryptozoic whether the Dungeon Crawler bonus works in Raids and was told that

"Dungeon bosses are not Raid bosses, therefore the dungeon crawler account bonus is only found in dungeons."

As for Raid Leader taking effect in dungeons, their response was this:

"The Raid Leader tier says that it is for all non-tournament PvE. Since only raids currently have more than one player in them (Dungeons are solo) then the Raid Leader bonus only becomes applicable for Raids."

Kilo24
05-28-2013, 12:59 PM
Hmm. The text was misleading for me as well. I had assumed that "all non-tournament PvE" meant "all non-tournament PvE" and not "raids and other cooperative PvE content." I had considered emailing them with a question asking them to clarify that, but I didn't think it necessary. I think some rewording on the tier is in order, but since they can't change that now...

The Dungeon Crawler tier is in my mind a bit clearer, but it still could use some specification that it specifically excludes raids. As far as I'm aware, it's not explicitly written anywhere that raids are not a type of dungeon, as it would be in MMOs like WoW.

I support this request primarily because the Kickstarter text is misleading. There's also that both of those bonuses are a large part of why I upgraded from King to Great King.

ramseytheory
05-28-2013, 01:02 PM
I thought it was fairly clear that Raid Leader didn't affect dungeons, but had no idea that Dungeon Crawler didn't affect raids - I thought it was doubled loot drops full stop. If they could be made universal that would be great, but failing that I think CZE should make it clear they aren't universal in an update. The main reason I upgraded to Grand King was being unable to choose between Pro Player and Dungeon Crawler, so...

Tyrfang
05-28-2013, 01:04 PM
The choice of making dungeon crawler not affect other PvE play seems a bit odd to me...

Oh well, time will tell how powerful the buffs are.

RobHaven
05-28-2013, 01:16 PM
I can see how you might have misunderstood their intentions, but I don't think it was grossly misstated. This seems like the kind of thing that could get to the point where people are crying foul because "I only pledged since I thought it applied to both!" I hope it doesn't come to that. While everyone always wants more, I worry about the broader impact on the economy. I don't want raid drops to be worth that much less due to everyone pushing for a 100% increase in loot. And I imagine the +1 starting card could be breaking the dungeons, as they're presumably balanced for a more "typical" deck construction.

GhundiPI
05-28-2013, 01:35 PM
Received the same answer as Socks regarding the Dungeon Crawler bonus not applying to raids. With their explanation of the 5 different archetypes, I understand the reason on why they did split the bonuses this way. It does make it a bit more difficult to make a correct choice not knowing how PvE will turn out. Will there be dungeons worthwhile of doing once you're able to reliably participate in raids. But also how long will it take to be able to do any raid content, for the Raid Leader bonus to kick in.

Still I think the best way is to just make an educated guess and hope for the best at the moment.

Turtlewing
05-28-2013, 02:04 PM
It's not immediately obvious from the Kicksarter that "raids" are not a subset of "dungeons". But once that is clarified it makes perfect sense that the dungeon crawler only applies to dungeons. Though it also makes it less valuable than if it applied to both.

The Raid leader is a lot less clear as it's effects are worded to imply that they affect you as well as your teammates. and it specifically says "all non-tournament PvE". Implying that if you are doing solo content you would still get the bonus yourself.

Their clarification, makes it unclear what exactly is wrong with that assumption. Does the bonus only affect your teammates and not you? do you have to be in a group for the bonuses to apply? or did the mess up and only mean "non-tournament multi-player PvE"?

Punk
05-28-2013, 02:28 PM
As for Raid Leader taking effect in dungeons, their response was this:

"The Raid Leader tier says that it is for all non-tournament PvE. Since only raids currently have more than one player in them (Dungeons are solo) then the Raid Leader bonus only becomes applicable for Raids."

"Pledge $250 or more: THE RAID LEADER TIER: ============================== Everything from the King tier. +1 Card in the opening hand of all players grouped with “The Raid Leader” in non-tournament PVE content FOR LIFE of the game! “The Raid Leader” exclusive Deck Customizable Sleeves. Raid Leader- exclusive PVE card."

I feel he clarified it very well. This affects players grouped with "The Raid Leader." He explains that the only grouping being done in PvE is in Raids.

dogmod
05-28-2013, 02:31 PM
"Pledge $250 or more: THE RAID LEADER TIER: ============================== Everything from the King tier. +1 Card in the opening hand of all players grouped with “The Raid Leader” in non-tournament PVE content FOR LIFE of the game! “The Raid Leader” exclusive Deck Customizable Sleeves. Raid Leader- exclusive PVE card."

I feel he clarified it very well. This affects players grouped with "The Raid Leader." He explains that the only grouping being done in PvE is in Raids.

Yeah I think the implication is that you aren't "grouping" with yourself...

Madican
05-28-2013, 02:31 PM
I'd vote no, but mostly because we don't know what dungeons and raids drop. If raids drop guaranteed legendaries while dungeons only have a chance at them then it'd be a broken ability by allowing the DC's to scoop up legendaries like no tomorrow.