PDA

View Full Version : what would happen if there was no limit on GK?



brynsul
05-25-2013, 03:59 AM
would it be so bad? It would certainly stop (or at least slow down) the people selling and stacking nonsense that seems to have run rampant on the KS.... just a thought... as I would up to a GK (currently collector) in a heartbeat.

Yasi
05-25-2013, 04:10 AM
would it be so bad? It would certainly stop (or at least slow down) the people selling and stacking nonsense that seems to have run rampant on the KS.... just a thought... as I would up to a GK (currently collector) in a heartbeat.

It wouldn't be so bad, but there has to be a limit somewhere and it could have been any number. One reason why it should and is limited is strategical in the sense that people who pledged(any tiers) want something more exclusive than what is already being offered-which is limited stock. The KS rewards has always been a "you've been here with us from the very beginning, so we want to give you something that will never be available again to show you our appreciation" and people like that idea.

swigmonkey
05-25-2013, 04:30 AM
It would make me so happy if GK was available =)

brynsul
05-25-2013, 04:49 AM
It wouldn't be so bad, but there has to be a limit somewhere and it could have been any number. One reason why it should and is limited is strategical in the sense that people who pledged(any tiers) want something more exclusive than what is already being offered-which is limited stock. The KS rewards has always been a "you've been here with us from the very beginning, so we want to give you something that will never be available again to show you our appreciation" and people like that idea.

right, but it is STILL the beginning... I was orignally knight, then moved up to king, now im up to collector... I scrounged some more money together and would love to join the grand king tier.... the whole point of limited numbers is to artificially inflate the need to get in early... but its a digital good so there is no real limit to what they could offer... granted for the higher tiers where they have to make things (vanity cards and the like) I can understand the limit, but on one where there is nothing new to make, just more bits of data for which I am willing to pay a stupid amount of money.

Storm_Fireblade
05-25-2013, 04:52 AM
Maybe they simply want to make sure there is a limit to the free drafts for life, since that essentially is a potential draft every time people don't pay for, although they might have without the perk.

Thelaasa
05-25-2013, 04:59 AM
Keep in mind, every tier they sell now is a loss of money when you compare it to the purchase of similar items post-kickstarter. You mention specifically the grand king tier, which has a cost of $500. Just looking at the options that would be available for sale post-launch, you have $40 from 4 starter decks, $310 from the 155 set 1 boosters, and assumed $100 from set 2 boosters, $385 from the 55 total free draft tourneys, and the 3 months of VIP subscription for another $12. That alone runs you up to $847, and it doesn't take into account all of the kickstarter exclusive extras that you are getting as well, since there isn't a realistic price point on any of those. So, for every single Grand King package that crypto has sold, they have actually lost $347 in possible profit. From that standpoint alone, it makes sense from a business standpoint to limit the number of those packages available for sale.

Mike411
05-25-2013, 05:01 AM
Yeah, there has to be a limit to the lifetime perks or the game will be less sustainable for CZE...

Willzyx
05-25-2013, 05:03 AM
Also, there's a perceived rarity and value to higher-tier backer rewards. Opening up more slots would make those suddenly less rare and valuable.

Storm_Fireblade
05-25-2013, 05:05 AM
@Thelaasa,

The Grand King Tier gets the weekly draft for life from the Pro Player and not only for one year.

Mushroom_C1oud
05-25-2013, 05:09 AM
I would like to see them add an Unlimited Grand King but with the stipulation that the Free For Life Drafting does not stack.

Shepherd74
05-25-2013, 05:37 AM
Don't forget 90 S1 boosters for the GM perk in GK. And the weekly booster draft is for life. Also, it is now 65 S2 boosters. Not 50.

These three rewards in particular are what pushed me over the top to upgrade from king to GK. Its the most I have pkedged for any KS by a lot (even Star Citizen), but buying at least 50 packs of S2 was a given. And the option to draft if you want is potentially valuable.

That having been said, as a GK I wouldn't sweat it if they opened up a reasonable amount more for folks. KS folks are your core backers. Even if they found out about your game 16 days in. We are all in this together. If they can afford it they should serve up more expensive cake for the faithful.

Yinwaru
05-25-2013, 05:56 AM
I would like to see them add an Unlimited Grand King but with the stipulation that the Free For Life Drafting does not stack.
That's a great idea. That or allow a Grand King "lite" with all of the benefits of Grand King, except with only two years of free drafts. I already have a Grand King, but I have friends who want to purchase a GK to get all of the non-draft rewards and can't because of people stacking free drafts.

Shadowelf
05-25-2013, 06:02 AM
Or they could make an intermediate tier between GK and DL, ranging from $600-800, if they wanted to keep GK's limited supply

Kilo24
05-25-2013, 06:10 AM
There are some very good reasons to limit a tier even if there are no practical limitations on the amount of it a Kickstarter creator could provide. To list a few:

-The allure of exclusivity: it's quite possible that limiting the amount of GKs to 1000 got them 1000 GKs where having no limit might have gotten them 800 or less. Having limitations on what you can buy increases the perceived value of the tier.

-Forcing desperate latecomers to upgrade: Someone who came in halfway through the campaign who would have picked up a Great King may instead do a Dragon Lord tier (or even Primal now that the DL tier is sold out) to get the same bonuses. It may backfire and result in a downgrade if the price differences between the tiers are too huge, but the potential is there.

-Managing the economy and value of each benefit: By putting a hard cap on how many people get a given benefit (whether it's tradeable like normal cards, constantly generates resources like the Spectral Lotus Garden, or is non-transferable like the $250 perks) the developers can ensure that that benefit's influence is limited to a certain degree. This has benefits in the game design as they can make statements about the majority of players and ensure that they're accurate. It also increases the value of each benefit to the player because they know that only X amount of other people can get the same thing.


Keep in mind, every tier they sell now is a loss of money when you compare it to the purchase of similar items post-kickstarter. You mention specifically the grand king tier, which has a cost of $500. Just looking at the options that would be available for sale post-launch, you have $40 from 4 starter decks, $310 from the 155 set 1 boosters, and assumed $100 from set 2 boosters, $385 from the 55 total free draft tourneys, and the 3 months of VIP subscription for another $12. That alone runs you up to $847, and it doesn't take into account all of the kickstarter exclusive extras that you are getting as well, since there isn't a realistic price point on any of those. So, for every single Grand King package that crypto has sold, they have actually lost $347 in possible profit. From that standpoint alone, it makes sense from a business standpoint to limit the number of those packages available for sale.
Strictly speaking, yes. If the GK supporter would have bought everything in the package separately at the highest possible, then that would be the loss.

But the cost to Cryptozoic is basically negligible due to the digital nature of the rewards. That lets them manage insane deals in much the same way that Steam does with its sales. And - like Steam - there's a lot of people buying stuff here that wouldn't have spent nearly as much money if it wasn't such a good value. There's a lot of people who wouldn't pay $60 for 30 boosters, but would pay $120 for 150 boosters and all the rest of the King tier. Because it's digital, the net profit from that person is over $60 and not how much the package would be worth independently.

And the social nature of the game adds in another complication to the whole matter. Even if the Kickstarter benefits were indeed too valuable for Crypto to make a profit, the fact is that the Kickstarting people are going to bring in friends who also are willing to spend money. If this were a physical TCG, they could end up with a net loss off of the Kickstarter after printing and manufacturing costs and but still rely on that fact alone to make their profits. It wouldn't be nearly as secure a business strategy, but other free-to-play games have proven happy players to be a valuable resource even if they don't spend anything.

So, yeah. Your analysis is accurate, but it's not very meaningful in a world without physical production costs.

brynsul
05-25-2013, 06:56 AM
The way I see it, the KS is being co-opted by people only in it for the short haul, wanting to swap a bit of cash now for more cash later.. CZE has the power to stop it by simply unlimiting GK and PP.... ball is in their court. Personally, I want to step up my donation to Grand King so I can raid and dungeon crawl more (im actually torn between collector and dungeon crawler teirs atm..) I wand this game to be around for years to come.

Storm_Fireblade
05-25-2013, 08:11 AM
If you want this game to succeed and be around for years, the last thing you should hope for is unlimited GK and PP tiers. Every single tier is mostly a loss for CZE in the long run due to the lifetime draft and additional giveaways.

Chance
05-25-2013, 08:23 AM
to my knowledge they cant increase or create tiers after the ks has started. So all thats going on is people talking about how good their hindsight is

Storm_Fireblade
05-25-2013, 08:29 AM
Of course they can add new tiers during the Kickstarter ;)

nicosharp
05-25-2013, 08:43 AM
Would be nice if there was no limit to GK. Would solve several problems:
- No kickstarter scalping
- Less trade power by players with uber merged tiers
- More players happy with their investment opportunity and ability to fund the game through development.
- Bigger early community card saturation to make the casual auction and PvE game more accessible to players with less income. (This will not be true after the first set)
- Larger draft community
- Win-Win for the player base and Cryptozoic

What should be removed for the new Grand King tier to work, is to eliminate the beta tournament access, as it would be way too challenging to manage for unlimited backers. Otherwise I see it as a win-win for everyone involved.

Omegahugger
05-25-2013, 08:48 AM
Actually, it would also create an infinite amount of Collector Alternate Art cards, and their value depends on their limited nature. (not truly infinite, but much less limited than what they'd otherwise be)

Genocidal
05-25-2013, 08:49 AM
to my knowledge they cant increase or create tiers after the ks has started. So all thats going on is people talking about how good their hindsight is

They can definitely add new tiers, and add quantity to existing tiers, because I saw this happen with the Ouya. What they can't do is change the rewards of a tier after someone has pledged.

Malicus
05-25-2013, 08:49 AM
I am somewhat ambivalent on this issue - from one side I worry about the impact of too much free drafting on the game and on its profitability long term (profitability is crucial to us all) but I am looking at it from a position of having secured 2 free drafts so it may simply be a selfishness on my part.

I honestly do not know if I would have pledged this much if they were not limited in volume. I have no objection to the free year of draft on the other tiers, I do not feel my uniqueness has been taken away but I am concerned about how much it will cost Crypto in potential retail but it may already have been offset by increases in KS pledges on those tiers since it is only potential revenue.

My gut says the limits are necessary and all the $250 tiers are great deals and the GK is a good mix of the tiers but I know Pro is OP.

/shrug - gotta go with my gut and hope it isn't just selfishness

Talreth
05-25-2013, 08:52 AM
I'm sure they had a discussion in which they estimated how many free drafts could be allowable and yet still be profitable. Changing the numbers would reduce their profit even more, and they already have enough to do way more than they were anticipating. The tiers do not need to be adjusted or whatever just so we can try and hit peak numbers every day.

Malicus
05-25-2013, 08:56 AM
I'm sure they had a discussion in which they estimated how many free drafts could be allowable and yet still be profitable. Changing the numbers would reduce their profit even more, and they already have enough to do way more than they were anticipating. The tiers do not need to be adjusted or whatever just so we can try and hit peak numbers every day.

I agree with the argument it shouldn't be done for that reason but I can also see it being frustrating coming into the KS or even coming back to the KS and seeing desirable tiers unavailable, I am not sure how objective I can be saying it is fine in a situation where I got what I want but others don't get what they want. This would be the reason I could potentially support unlimited GK if its impact on long term was calculated and deemed acceptable.

Talreth
05-25-2013, 08:58 AM
I agree with the argument it shouldn't be done for that reason but I can also see it being frustrating coming into the KS or even coming back to the KS and seeing desirable tiers unavailable, I am not sure how objective I can be saying it is fine in a situation where I got what I want but others don't get what they want. This would be the reason I could potentially support unlimited GK if its impact on long term was calculated and deemed acceptable.

Okay, but the thing is this: everyone knows that's how KS works. That's how every exclusive first come first serve thing works. It's like showing up to a party late and complaining all the good food is gone. Did you just want everyone to wait 3 hours til you got there?

nicosharp
05-25-2013, 09:06 AM
I keep seeing a trend on this forum, and on kickstarter comments....
Why do people that have locked Pro Player tiers feel the need to say there would be no value to their tier if it was opened up for everyone to purchase?

No matter what happens to the number of people allowed in the tier... Whether it is the PP tier or the GK tier, your pledge still has amazing value.

I feel like the people with the Pro Player tiers see it as an investment to make free money having a huge advantage to generate free cards to sell on the auction house. This kickstarter and this game is not an investment to fund your dreams to be a card trader with an extreme advantage. This kickstarter is not a way for you to feel like you are better than someone because you refreshed your page every second for 3 hours to lock the tier, or showed up 3 days earlier because you got the news before someone else. You are no better than the person that has not locked the tier and wants to now.

Get over yourselves and support the efforts of players now that want to fund the game, play the game, and get similar value from finding the kickstarter and backing it before June 7th. This game will only become more popular for the $'s it raises before the kickstarter locks, and for the players that feel compelled to play for the long haul given their large investment.

Most kickstarters have the "Food is Gone" mentality, because the good is "physical". For example: the Ouya needs to be made. There is time tied to that delivery. This good is digital, and easy to reproduce and offer. The kickstarter is only a month long, and everyone that got here, gets the food, the food is gone after June 7th.

Talreth
05-25-2013, 09:08 AM
I keep seeing a trend on this forum, and on kickstarter comments....
Why do people that have locked Pro Player tiers feel the need to say there would be no value to their tier if it was opened up for everyone to purchase?

No matter what happens to the number of people allowed in the tier... Whether it is the PP tier or the GK tier, your pledge still has amazing value.

I feel like the people with the Pro Player tiers see it as an investment to make free money having a huge advantage to generate free cards to sell on the auction house. This kickstarter and this game is not an investment to fund your dreams to be a card trader with an extreme advantage. This kickstarter is not a way for you to feel like you are better than someone because you refreshed your page every second for 3 hours to lock the tier, or showed up 3 days earlier because you got the news before someone else. You are no better than the person that has not locked the tier and wants to now.

Get over yourselves and support the efforts of players now that want to fund the game, play the game, and get similar value from finding the kickstarter and backing it before June 7th. This game will only become more popular for the $'s it raises before the kickstarter locks, and for the players that feel compelled to play for the long haul given their large investment.

Okay, but despite this you still failed to deny the most important part of this which is that CZE loses money in the long term for every PP and GK lock. Also, not for PP especially but for GK, the more people that pledge the less value that tier will have. I guarantee you exclusivity is the reason that those tiers sold out, and who knows if they even would have hit 1k without the cap. If you open up GKs, it will directly lower the value of the Collector tier benefits. Having more DC will lower the value of PvE goods in the AH as you get more people with +100% loot. You could argue that it doesn't matter because those tiers aren't filled up yet, but regardless of whether more people pledge Collector, DC, or GK, it will lower values.

Genocidal
05-25-2013, 09:08 AM
I don't think they should open up more Grand Kings, but I think they're potentially leaving a lot of Kickstarter money on the table by having no unlimited tiers above King, and no tiers period between the $250s and Primal. These tiers don't necessarily need a lifetime benefit, as we've seen the problems that can cause, but something that makes them worthwhile.

Ideas I have: VIP for 1-2 years, 10-20 packs each of the first X sets, 1 year of each of the $250 tiers' perks. That was with maybe 5 minutes of thought, I'm sure that if Cryptozoic wanted they could come up with more or better offerings since they understand the game better than any of us.

nicosharp
05-25-2013, 09:12 AM
Okay, but despite this you still failed to deny the most important part of this which is that CZE loses money in the long term for every PP and GK lock.

Why does this need to be addressed. Very lame attempt and argument. Why do I say that?
ACTUAL MONEY NOW FOR CZE
Vs.
POTENTIAL MONEY A YEAR FROM NOW, if the SAME PLAYERS decide to play Draft only once a week.


Larger draft pools, player pools and drafts happening more often. I don't see your point or the problem at all?

Talreth
05-25-2013, 09:31 AM
Why does this need to be addressed. Very lame attempt and argument. Why do I say that?
ACTUAL MONEY NOW FOR CZE
Vs.
POTENTIAL MONEY A YEAR FROM NOW, if the SAME PLAYERS decide to play Draft only once a week.


Larger draft pools, player pools and drafts happening more often. I don't see your point or the problem at all?

Well it would lower the market values of cards even further for one.

Mushroom_C1oud
05-25-2013, 09:38 AM
Well it would lower the market values of cards even further for one.

So you're saying the more boosters CZE sells would decrease the value of your cards? Would it be more beneficial for you if CZE didn't sell boosters?

nicosharp
05-25-2013, 09:41 AM
Well it would lower the market values of cards even further for one.

Market value is Supply and Demand.
You increase the Demand enough, and the added Supply does not matter as much. Trending towards 12k'ish backers right now, where this game could be played by millions. The demand will determine the value. If the supply is controlled now, this again it is the arguement I first raised; the greedy few that have the tiers now, are the only ones that benefit. CZE gets nothing from controlling the supply now.

If the game deters people from playing after a year, due to their inability to have some free product, new players and players willing to pay to play may leave the game as well, given higher queue times, and product that is more expensive or require too much grind to obtain.

You can't put a value on anything right now with no idea on how much demand there will be. Nothing I've locked up with my GK tier, especially the collector edition cards, have value to me at this time. The only thing that has value to me is the ability to acquire product for free after the first year, and being able to acquire more loot in dungeons. I am not here to make money off people in the auction house, or maintain high value cards to leverage my trading and financial backing in the game. I am investing to have a competitive foothold in this game, and to have tools necessary for me to compete in all aspects of PvP.

Talreth
05-25-2013, 09:41 AM
So you're saying the more boosters CZE sells would decrease the value of your cards? Would it be more beneficial for you if CZE didn't sell boosters?

r u srs

Talreth
05-25-2013, 09:46 AM
Market value is Supply and Demand.
You increase the Demand enough, and the added Supply does not matter as much. Trending towards 12k'ish backers right now, where this game could be played by millions. The demand will determine the value. If the supply is controlled now, this again it is the arguement I first raised; the greedy few that have the tiers now, are the only ones that benefit. CZE gets nothing from controlling the supply now.

If the game deters people from playing after a year, due to their inability to have some free product, new players and players willing to play may leave the game as well, given higher queue times, and product that is more expensive or require too much grind to obtain.

You can't put a value on anything right now with no idea on how much demand there will be. Nothing I've locked up with my GK tier, especially the collector edition cards, have value to me at this time. The only thing that has value to me is the ability to acquire product for free after the first year, and being able to acquire more loot in dungeons. I am not here to make money off people in the auction house, or maintain high value cards to leverage my trading and financial backing in the game. I am investing to have a competitive foothold in this game, and to have tools necessary for me to compete in all aspects of PvP.

If not having free shit all the time deters them from playing the game, they wouldn't have done anything in the first place then. And as you said, market value is supply and demand. So the only way the value of collector cards would increase by increasing supply is if demand increased disproportionately with supply. But we have no way of knowing how much demand each additional GK will generate, only that you are increasing the supply pool.

Lazybum
05-25-2013, 09:46 AM
thank god GK is sold out or i would have to get another one, lol but instead i will prob just pick up a normal king or 2

nicosharp
05-25-2013, 09:47 AM
r u srs

well, you were kind of suggesting that TBH in the most extreme kind of way.


If not having free shit all the time deters them from playing the game, they wouldn't have done anything in the first place then. And as you said, market value is supply and demand. So the only way the value of collector cards would increase by increasing supply is if demand increased disproportionately with supply. But we have no way of knowing how much demand each additional GK will generate, only that you are increasing the supply pool.

The entire point is that "not having free shit" is creating a barrier to entry. That barrier to entry is even being created during the kickstarter by tier locking. I am not saying it is to everyone's benefit to make everything free... But $500 is $500. It is a huge investment in the game and in CZE. It generates more demand for the game because the players backing it, and people that see how much the game was backed both generate that demand. CZE has more money to create a better product.

This can be argued forever. As a backer with high expectations for this game to be successful, I see more value in money up front, and people with more vested interest now than I do in a few 2,000 people (less than due to multiple pledges from single sources) that want to see their collector's edition cards maintain higher trade values for a smaller community of Hex players.

Talreth
05-25-2013, 09:51 AM
well, you were kind of suggesting that TBH in the most extreme kind of way.

Except that PP and GK give FREE packs of every set forever. If CZE offered free boosters of every set forever then yes I would say they are devaluing the cards.

nicosharp
05-25-2013, 09:59 AM
Except that PP and GK give FREE packs of every set forever. If CZE offered free boosters of every set forever then yes I would say they are devaluing the cards.

3 packs a week for a competitive constructed player will never be enough. 1 draft a week for a competitive draft player will never be enough.

Talreth
05-25-2013, 10:34 AM
Welp, I guess the elitist in me would rather them just remain exclusive, and another part of me says CZE probably thought out their tier limits for a reason, although they have changed a lot during the KS.

ForgedSol
05-25-2013, 10:56 AM
The thing about Cryptzoic's strategy is that they wanted greed and urgency to be a part of wanting to pledge. That will of course attract certain kinds of players. The tiers did not have to be set up the way they were. It could simply have been set up as tiers with ever increasing value and people could choose whichever tier fit their budget and comfort zone when it came to risk. (Example of this would be the SolForge Kickstarter which only had exclusives at the extreme ends, with beta access at the, and free drafts, vanity cards, etc at the top end, with the whole middle end a very simple to navigate Choose Which Fits You Best set of levels.)

On the one hand, setting up a system that encourages greed, I Got In Before You, urgency, etc will get people to pledge sooner than they intended, and for more money. On the other hand, it encourages greed and sends the signal that that's okay. The game is set up this way, they want people to have exclusives and feel good about having things other people can't have.

This is one of the reasons I hesitated in pledging for this game. I eventually just caved in and thought to myself, "That's just how MMO's are from what I remember of my Ultima Online days."

I appreciate SolForge's approach better. They would have gotten a lot more money and more pledges if they did the same thing, but since they're TCG only, they wanted to create an environment that is fair to everyone. F2P, Kickstarters, Everyone Else. Hex keeps balance in the PvP side by keeping any advantage exclusives strictly on the PvE side where superiority based on date joined is part of the MMO experience as they're shaping it, but that doesn't mean the desire and emotions they're promoting don't cross over to all aspects of the game.

With that said, I don't think adding a fixed amount of Late Bird Pro and Grand King Tiers would devalue anyone's pledges by any significant amount, since I'm expecting this game to grow much larger than it is right now. Would there be any harm in adding 500 Late Bird Pro Player Tiers at $400 and 500 Late Bird Grand King Tiers at $800?

jai151
05-25-2013, 11:49 AM
3 packs a week for a competitive constructed player will never be enough. 1 draft a week for a competitive draft player will never be enough.

You're assuming only "competitive" players are picking up those tiers. Several picked up Pro because they figured they wouldn't need to buy anything else for the life of the game. In other words, people completely removing themselves from the demand side of the economy.

nicosharp
05-25-2013, 01:32 PM
You're assuming only "competitive" players are picking up those tiers. Several picked up Pro because they figured they wouldn't need to buy anything else for the life of the game. In other words, people completely removing themselves from the demand side of the economy.
and?
I don't really think I understand your point? From those players, $500 is already a lot of money to get. The often casual players will rarely stick with something over a long haul anyway. There will be plenty of casual Free-to-play players that will trade for everything they want. Never spending a dime on the game.

The compulsive and competitive players are where big money is made. Also players will spend a lot of money that are casual and eventually hear about this game through friends once it is released and these opportunities are gone.

Talreth
05-25-2013, 01:48 PM
and?
There will be plenty of casual Free-to-play players that will trade for everything they want. Never spending a dime on the game.


Not if us KS backers collude to keep prices high!

nicosharp
05-25-2013, 01:55 PM
Not if us KS backers collude to keep prices high!

There are people, that no doubt will have the time, and the energy to treat games like full-time jobs. Good luck to those people. Price control and barriers to entry are what created such a lopsided economy in Diablo3. Eventually the best loot was impossible to buy, but very good second tier loot was very easy to get. There may be money legendary cards that will be price controlled by the playerbase, and there will be extreme price control on primal packs eventually. For everything else, it will be easily obtainable, because it will be hard to collude with such high volumes of product entering auctions unless the games player-base is already suffering...

brynsul
05-25-2013, 02:34 PM
IMO this boils down to INCLUSIVITY versus EXCLUSIVITY.. If CZE wants their game to have broad appeal then they need to focus on INCLUSIVITY, and in many ways they are doing that, with low pack/draft prices, free PVE dungeons/raids and the like... Whereas many players seem to want EXCLUSIVITY, in the form of the ME ONLY attitude I see from some people on here, tbh IDK about 7 bucks a week. I am here for the PVE elements that this game provides over MTGO, I went from king to collector because I want more copies of the exclusive cards. I would also like to get the drop bonus' from Dungeon Crawler... It seems the only way to do that at this point is to basically cheat like the many others and make a second account..... which I didnt want to do... TBH I feel its sad that the setup CZE has implemented promotes cheating and exploitation.... and the ball is still in their court.

Thelaasa
05-25-2013, 03:30 PM
Why does this need to be addressed. Very lame attempt and argument. Why do I say that?
ACTUAL MONEY NOW FOR CZE
Vs.
POTENTIAL MONEY A YEAR FROM NOW, if the SAME PLAYERS decide to play Draft only once a week.


Larger draft pools, player pools and drafts happening more often. I don't see your point or the problem at all?

The point is that cryptozoic needed X amount of money now to help finish the game, assuming $300,000 since that was the kickstarter target. So, anything they sell now in excess of that, due to the pricing and contents of the packages available, is actually a net loss for the company. They have enough money right now to finish the game, but if all of their money comes in over the next few weeks, where exactly are they going to get their money to keep the game going in a year from now? Also, your counter argument is inherently flawed. You don't actually need the same players drafting every week to make that profit, you just need the same number of paying players drafting each week. Every player that gets a free draft is one less potentially paying customer in the draft aspect of the game. Whether you like this or not, whether you think this is lame or awesome, it is a fact of business that companies need to look to future and plan now to be able to maximize profit later so that they can continue to have a stable income and be able to maintain their product.

Talreth
05-25-2013, 03:36 PM
Whereas many players seem to want EXCLUSIVITY, in the form of the ME ONLY attitude I see from some people on here, tbh IDK about 7 bucks a week. I am here for the PVE elements that this game provides over MTGO, I went from king to collector because I want more copies of the exclusive cards. It seems the only way to do that at this point is to basically cheat like the many others and make a second account..... which I didnt want to do... TBH I feel its sad that the setup CZE has implemented promotes cheating and exploitation.... and the ball is still in their court.

"Hey you know that thing CZE has officially endorsed? That's cheating." Also I like how you complain about the exclusivity people and said you went collector specifically because of the exclusives.

brynsul
05-25-2013, 03:41 PM
"Hey you know that thing CZE has officially endorsed? That's cheating." Also I like how you complain about the exclusivity people and said you went collector specifically because of the exclusives.

god you are thick.....

ya know what fk it im done trying to explain things to people who are too dense to grasp the concept...

Gwaer
05-25-2013, 04:27 PM
god you are thick.....

ya know what fk it im done trying to explain things to people who are too dense to grasp the concept...

This is an incredibly ironic statement.

Talreth
05-25-2013, 04:51 PM
Cheating is breaking the rules. If you are following the rules you're not cheating. God you are thick.

djlowballer
05-25-2013, 04:55 PM
The point is that cryptozoic needed X amount of money now to help finish the game, assuming $300,000 since that was the kickstarter target. So, anything they sell now in excess of that, due to the pricing and contents of the packages available, is actually a net loss for the company. They have enough money right now to finish the game, but if all of their money comes in over the next few weeks, where exactly are they going to get their money to keep the game going in a year from now?

There is no way they expected only 300k from the kickstarter. Companies choose a lower number than they absolutely need since KS doesn't partially fund projects. 301l/300k means the project is funded, 1,499k/1,500k gives nothing to the company.

KS pledges aren't a loss for the company no matter how you look at it. CzE is already 2 million dollars in the red with the project's previous development. Revenue from a 1.5 million kickstarter puts them 500,000$ away from breaking even. Yes they will make less money off of some backers in a year but they benefit from a massive capital injection without having to deal with banks, interest, monthly payments, etc. If Hex is not profitable because the KS backers aren't buying anything else a year from now then the health of the game is more of a concern because the playerbase is too small to sustain it.

CzE will pull the plug should the game be so unhealthy. There is no risk for them. All of the KS rewards are digital so fulfillment is a matter of clicking a button and adding stuff to accounts. CzE can issue all the exclusives and then wind down the game because we aren't investors or creditors; we are patrons.

nicosharp
05-25-2013, 04:59 PM
There is no way they expected only 300k from the kickstarter. Companies choose a lower number than they absolutely need since KS doesn't partially fund projects. 301l/300k means the project is funded, 1,499k/1,500k gives nothing to the company.

KS pledges aren't a loss for the company no matter how you look at it. CzE is already 2 million dollars in the red with the project's previous development. Revenue from a 1.5 million kickstarter puts them 500,000$ away from breaking even. Yes they will make less money off of some backers in a year but they benefit from a massive capital injection without having to deal with banks, interest, monthly payments, etc. If Hex is not profitable because the KS backers aren't buying anything else a year from now then the health of the game is more of a concern because the playerbase is too small to sustain it.

CzE will pull the plug should the game be so unhealthy. There is no risk for them. All of the KS rewards are digital so fulfillment is a matter of clicking a button and adding stuff to accounts. CzE can issue all the exclusives and then wind down the game because we aren't investors or creditors; we are patrons.

That is a pretty good summary of how I feel about this whole thing. I see the otherside, and I understand it. I just do not agree with the arguements that back the exclusivity of this little known kickstarter campaign, for a game that will thrive based on its player-base.

I think everyone arguing to keep the tiers exclusive on this forum and in kickstarter comments are either locked in the pro-player tier, or the grand king tier. I was able to get into the grand king tier, but do not think it is justified to be locked, or why a similar tier can't be created for people that want to back around $500 for the game?