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Brumby66
05-30-2013, 09:24 AM
Was there any word on the amount of lotuses (or any card for that matter) that we can carry at a given time?

MatWith1T
05-30-2013, 09:27 AM
You can have an unlimited number of any card in your collection, only 4 can be used in a given deck though.

Tyrfang
05-30-2013, 09:27 AM
Probably the limit is equal to the internal number they use to store the number of card instances you have of a certain type, which will most likely be an integer type, so...
At least +32,767, probably +65,535.

It's impossible to hit even the 32767 cap for a good 20+ years, unless you AIM for it... :D

Brumby66
05-30-2013, 09:29 AM
Probably the limit is equal to the internal number they use to store the number of card instances you have of a certain type, which will most likely be an integer type, so...
At least +32,767, probably +65,535.

I'd better be careful not to cross that limit then lol. Thanks for the responses.

jaxsonbateman
05-30-2013, 09:30 AM
Psst... if you put 4 in all your PvE decks and just don't activate them, it's like you're running 56 card decks, which is pretty sexy. ;-)

Gwaer
05-30-2013, 09:31 AM
It's impossible to hit even the 32767 cap for a good 20+ years, unless you AIM for it... :D
Challenge accepted!

Madican
05-30-2013, 09:43 AM
Psst... if you put 4 in all your PvE decks and just don't activate them, it's like you're running 56 card decks, which is pretty sexy. ;-)

Actually it seems more as if you're running a deck where there are four useless draws. The lotuses shouldn't be in the deck unless you intend to use them for the fight.

MasterN64
05-30-2013, 09:46 AM
Actually it seems more as if you're running a deck where there are four useless draws. The lotuses shouldn't be in the deck unless you intend to use them for the fight.

Hardly when it enters play you draw a card and it costs nothing. Draw it play it draw again. It lets you run a 56 card deck and have a little safety net if you need to activate them.

jaxsonbateman
05-30-2013, 09:47 AM
Actually it seems more as if you're running a deck where there are four useless draws. The lotuses shouldn't be in the deck unless you intend to use them for the fight.
They cantrip, and don't cost anything. Because they cantrip and don't cost anything, it's as though you're running a 56 card deck - and the smaller your deck is, the more chance you have of drawing your good cards. If you end up playing a deck that runs best with a certain card or 2, it makes it that much more important to have a better chance at drawing them, which a 56 card deck would suit (ie. I'm thinking of a Pack Raptor/Replicator's Gambit deck at launch, so having more chance at drawing both is pretty hand).

And then if you find yourself in a situation that you need to win and you're staring down the barrel, you can activate for a surge of mana. At worst, you get another free cantrip by playing the Black Tiger.

The big "but" for the whole concept of auto-including 4 in any PvE deck is if encounters or cards show up in PvE that increase the cost of playing the cards (which would make it far less useful as a not-free card draw), or disallow playing them for whatever reason (ie. "players can't play artifacts"). But in those situations, just take them out. ;-)

It's not for every deck though. Some cards like this already exist in Magic (the first that comes to mind is Manamorphose - pay 2 mana, but then get 2 mana and draw a card), and don't get autoincluded in decks. Though I can't think of a totally free one in Magic.

Chance
05-30-2013, 09:47 AM
You know i've been thinking about how Lotus works in dungeon situations with mutli fights, do you ever get the chance to reload or are you stuck with 4 tigers for the duration? Also what happens in keep defence where my decks are controlled by AI if i run Lotus then the first person to attempt would turn them into tigers afterwards what happens?

Madican
05-30-2013, 09:50 AM
You can't have your dream 56 card deck without activating them, and they're one-time use cards so that's not a viable strategy for anything but the toughest of fights. And if you don't activate them they are just taking up space for actual valuable draws.

Tyrfang
05-30-2013, 09:52 AM
@Madican: Playing a lotus lets you draw a card as the effect...

Technically, they're better than running a 56 card deck if you have any artifact affinity cards in your deck, or cards that give you an ability when an artifact/card comes into play or when you draw a card.

Also, potentially worse in situations where the opponent has a card that punishes you for drawing/playing a card.

Madican
05-30-2013, 09:55 AM
So playing them doesn't trigger the transformation? That's kind of overpowered. Seems like it'll make a four Lotus deck an absolute standard.

Hadin
05-30-2013, 09:56 AM
You can't have your dream 56 card deck without activating them, and they're one-time use cards so that's not a viable strategy for anything but the toughest of fights. And if you don't activate them they are just taking up space for actual valuable draws.

Trade me your Lotus Gardens when we receive them, as you clearly think they are shit, and I will gladly pay as little as you expect for them.

Tyrfang
05-30-2013, 09:56 AM
So playing them doesn't trigger the transformation? That's kind of overpowered. Seems like it'll make a four Lotus deck an absolute standard.

Not really, they're basically blanks, allowing for 56 card decks. Some people might want to have more cards for potential outs, and others might want to avoid running artifacts for whatever reason. It's PvE only, anyway.

jaxsonbateman
05-30-2013, 09:57 AM
A small part of me is hoping that after the game has been up and running for a while, they'll be cheap enough on the AH to be able to readily use them on tougher encounters. With the legendary equipment (discard as many cards as you want, then draw that many cards) they becomes very ridiculous, and a turn 1 7+ mana play would not be uncommon.

Though because of that they'll probably still be expensive for years to come. >.<

jaxsonbateman
05-30-2013, 10:00 AM
Not really, they're basically blanks, allowing for 56 card decks. Some people might want to have more cards for potential outs, and others might want to avoid running artifacts for whatever reason. It's PvE only, anyway.
They're definitely not an auto-include for sure, but a free card draw that on the face of it won't have any drawback is more potent than the stuff Magic has on offer. If there are any combos or synergies running around in PvE then it becomes that much better (my Raptor/Replicator idea wants to dig as much as possible so that you eventually have a huge % chance of drawing a Raptor each turn, so the Lotuses definitely help in a deck like that).

Madican
05-30-2013, 10:00 AM
They'll be relatively cheap considering they produce one per Garden every daily login. Still probably a large amount of gold or low plat, but not too expensive.

Though now I'm thinking of the possibility of some combo involving them and Argus with the Invincible equipment.

Swordmage
05-30-2013, 10:06 AM
Spectral Lotuses are the cards that made me pledge King. The idea of a Tolarian Academy style opening turn (using the discard/draw equipment) ditching up to 28 cards into the dustbin to find the best cards followed by something like a Void Marauder for free with 5 actions in the graveyard...

Now think of something along the lines of popping the lotus for a turn 1 Sabotage with 3 Sabotages in the graveyard and a Void Marauder in play, leaving the enemy (assuming dungeon/raid boss champions have a 60 card deck) with a 25% chance of getting boomed in the face every turn? And maybe other cards that let you pull cards out of the graveyard and play them if they come up with them? I want to do this so bad I paid $120. @_@

Turtlewing
05-30-2013, 11:00 AM
Probably the limit is equal to the internal number they use to store the number of card instances you have of a certain type, which will most likely be an integer type, so...
At least +32,767, probably +65,535.

It's impossible to hit even the 32767 cap for a good 20+ years, unless you AIM for it... :D

Several kinds of unlikely.

In Hex every card is unique so you can't just store "4X spectral lotus" you need to store "spectral lotus #334", "spectral lotus #669", etc.

Chances are they'll accomplish this by assigning a GUID (Globally Unique IDentifier) to every card and all cards will share the GUID space. Meaning the server can support up to X cards where X is the maximum number of unique identifiers in the GUID schema they choose. For example if they go with a 32 digit hexadecimal number that'll be 32^16 (approximately 1.2 x10^24) possible cards in circulation.

And if they ever manage to actually fill that they could upgrade the database to include a longer key. Meaning unless CZE decides to cap the total number of cards in your collection, there is no limit.

Tyrfang
05-30-2013, 11:11 AM
Turtlewing:
They probably store the number of instances of a certain card you have in your collection, regardless of how the keep tabs on each individual card.

For example: [Spectral Lotus] (X), and that X is most likely an integer.

Under the hood, it'll be the method you describe, or maybe on the double back, but visually, it'd be a pain in the ass to have pages of a single card, all with "Spectral Lotus #40394" or something.

Turtlewing
05-30-2013, 11:30 AM
Turtlewing:
They probably store the number of instances of a certain card you have in your collection, regardless of how the keep tabs on each individual card.

For example: [Spectral Lotus] (X), and that X is most likely an integer.

Under the hood, it'll be the method you describe, or maybe on the double back, but visually, it'd be a pain in the ass to have pages of a single card, all with "Spectral Lotus #40394" or something.

You wouldn't show the GUID to the user (it's a database key no one but the database cares what it is), and they could hide all copies of the same card behind a single instance of that one card's artwork, but they need to let you access each card individually as that's how you view the double back and how you select which one to put in a deck. So there has to exist a view that would show each instance of the card even if it isn't the only one available. Additionally you wouldn't store the number of copies, you'd just count them and display the total to as many digits as you have space. Since that counter is not a functional limit on the database it won't matter if you have more copies than it can count (the counter may well be limited to 3 digest for example).

Tyrfang
05-30-2013, 11:45 AM
Since that counter is not a functional limit on the database it won't matter if you have more copies than it can count (the counter may well be limited to 3 digest for example).

I agree - It'll be an arbitrary limit.

That said, the system limit would most likely be that of an unsigned integer. The max length of a list data-type built into most programming languages is the max-value of an int. If you have more than that, it might end up causing an error.

Let's say someone has a collection set up (probably as a dictionary object) and you add card names with a corresponding list object of all the GUIDs owned by the player that match that card name.

I'm not sure how they would handle having more than the [max number of elements in a list] instances of a card in a single collection.