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MrCwis
05-31-2013, 10:23 AM
After reading a couple threads today I've come across something that was a bit disturbing to me. There were a number of posts from people putting down the PVE aspect of Hex as if it was a second class game of sort. This really struck me in the concerns of exclusives thread where a number of (IMO) good arguements were raised as to why exclusive content shouldn't be given out at physical event such as merc or cards. After reading some of the agruements that were against it I understood and agreed with them. I plan on playing a lot of PVE and if there was a merc that I couldn't use I'd feel at if I was missing out on part of the game that is suppose to be Free to Play. Then after these arguement were people saying it's only PVE so it doesn't matter, but they can't do it in PVP cause it wouldn't be fair. That's not a logical arguement. PVE is suppose to be just as much fun and just as competitive as PVP just in a different way, and the exclusive that we are getting from this Kickstarter already puts us ahead of the rest. The 5 merc are awesome and no one else will ever be able to play them and are missing out on building great decks around their powers. The cards are a bit different since they will be tradable so some people will be able to use them when the owners don't want them anymore.

So I'm asking the community, is it the majority of people that feel like PVE is less of a game, or is it just a few posts, or am I wrong about my interpretation?

I want to enjoy PVE as much as I will enjoy PVP, and look forward to making a ruby control deck around The Wrath of Zakiir pve exclusive card that I'm getting.

Talreth
05-31-2013, 10:28 AM
After reading a couple threads today I've come across something that was a bit disturbing to me. There were a number of posts from people putting down the PVE aspect of Hex as if it was a second class game of sort. This really struck me in the concerns of exclusives thread where a number of (IMO) good arguements were raised as to why exclusive content shouldn't be given out at physical event such as merc or cards. After reading some of the agruements that were against it I understood and agreed with them. I plan on playing a lot of PVE and if there was a merc that I couldn't use I'd feel at if I was missing out on part of the game that is suppose to be Free to Play. Then after these arguement were people saying it's only PVE so it doesn't matter, but they can't do it in PVP cause it wouldn't be fair. That's not a logical arguement. PVE is suppose to be just as much fun and just as competitive as PVP just in a different way, and the exclusive that we are getting from this Kickstarter already puts us ahead of the rest. The 5 merc are awesome and no one else will ever be able to play them and are missing out on building great decks around their powers. The cards are a bit different since they will be tradable so some people will be able to use them when the owners don't want them anymore.

So I'm asking the community, is it the majority of people that feel like PVE is less of a game, or is it just a few posts, or am I wrong about my interpretation?

I want to enjoy PVE as much as I will enjoy PVP, and look forward to making a ruby control deck around The Wrath of Zakiir pve exclusive card that I'm getting.

I don't know that it's less of a game but I will tell you why I go for PvP over PvE. In the end, there is only so much PvE that you can do. Once you beat it, get all best-in-slots or whatever, you're done. Sure I guess you could level up an alt or something but I could never bring myself to do that. On the other hand, PvP will always be different even with the same cards.

Fleckenwhatever
05-31-2013, 10:33 AM
It's a lot easier to form an opinion on PvP as that's been the majority of the revealed content. We only have sketches and ideas of what to expect from PvE play, which makes it a lot easier to dismiss as being a secondary game to the primary focus of PvP. Personally, I'm looking forward to the PvE portion and have thus far been frustrated by the lack of detail available to show us what's happening. I was rather hoping that this coming Monday's stream would have a PvE portion, but from all indications I've seen it's going to be more PvP dueling.

Note that this lack of information isn't moving me off of my projected pledge tier, but I would be willing to suggest that it's keeping others off of the remaining $250 tiers. *shrug*

Tathel
05-31-2013, 10:36 AM
I think the honest answer is that the majority of active posters right now are at least as interested in the PVP as PVE. Some more in PVP.

I think this is mostly because those into MMO / the F2P side are not as interested or invested at this stage.

Not to say this is universally true, but those interested in this more as a TCG probably have less of an issue investing heavily since from a TCG point of view this is relatively cheap.

From a MMO point of view people are used to paying 0-60$ up front and then maybe 12$ a month afterward.

I'm sure once the game launches things will even out a bit more.
I don't think lower of the MMO fan side, but personally If i was just interested in the MMO side I would not be investing very heavily. There is much less value at the tiers that include things like drafts etc.

Also I think the PVP competitive mindset tends to come along with being more adversarial or outgoing, so not only do you probably have more people who are at least 50% on the PVP side at this point but they also maybe are more vocal.

There is also not as much information about the MMO side to talk about.

Anecdotally: I have a friend who enjoys TCG in a non-competitive way but really doesn't like any sort of PVPing (doesn't like the pressure of competition even at low level). He enjoys MMOs and expressed an interest. He didn't even think about backing or looking into hex at this point, simply because there wasn't enough easy information about the MMO side and it would not be hard to enter free later to get into PVE if you have absolutely no interest in the PVP.

Genocidal
05-31-2013, 10:36 AM
So I'm asking the community, is it the majority of people that feel like PVE is less of a game, or is it just a few posts, or am I wrong about my interpretation?

Apologies for the generalization of a complex situation, but I think it comes down to who the Kickstarter mainly caught the attention of, and that would be the TCG community. A PVP TCG is a known entity, and something they can easily get behind, while PVE with dungeons, loot, raids, etc. is more of the MMO domain, and something that hasn't been explored much in TCGs. With how little information they've shown about PVE it's hard to get as excited about, but I think in time we'll see a vibrant community for both sides of the game.

Personally, I'm interested in both sides, and can't wait to see more dungeons with mechanics like the Kraken preview.

MugenMusou
05-31-2013, 10:40 AM
I don't see PvE as a less of a game. If anything, it can be the most selling point of the HEX as it is the major difference of this from game like Magic. I want to collect PvE card as much as PvP; hence, I personally feel against the some special limited card either on PvP or PvE. I don't if this make sense but my logic may be different from others you've been reading.

Any game that limits the access to certain card based on physical presence to an event, purchasing physical item etc. makes me feel like placing huge limitation to people who cannot attend the event or rather not like to purchase the physical item. Of course, you can buy or trade from auction house but placing premier price on those seems just less attractive. Since I have collector mentality, if I know I cannot get some of cards, then I just give up as a whole.

So I'd be ok with alternative art, which does not change overall game experience but otherwise, I want all PvE cards to be obtainable by playing PvE.

Massabik
05-31-2013, 11:12 AM
I am personally looking forward most to the PvE side of things. I've been waiting over 15 years for a game company to actually realize the possibilities that a digital space brings. If I could afford it, I would pledge Producer tier, and believe that I got 'value' out of it. I'm just glad I was able to get my King pledge in and paid for :).

Hatts
05-31-2013, 11:15 AM
I'm one of the people who made distinctions between PVP and PVE on the exclusives thread, but I don't think it is less of a game. I will be playing both.

My argument was that exclusive cards are not OK for PVP because you need a level playing field for constructed tournaments. Alternate art is a good option for PvP exclusive rewards.

For PvE I want lots of exclusive cards because exclusive cards are fun and everyone should have opportunities to get some. This has nothing to do with PvE being second class, it's because me having access to an exclusive card doesn't give me an unfair advantage against anyone. The fact that we can have exclusive cards in PvE without unbalancing competition is an advantage of the format, not a negative.

As long as there are enough opportunities in game and at live events to get exclusive cards the only people who are hard out are the ones that need to collect everything and they will already be spending a lot to do so.

Tyrfang
05-31-2013, 11:16 AM
Although I'm not really good at them, I like Draft and limited events, which pretty much automatically throws me on the PvP side.

If, somehow, there's PvE limited events (that'd be a bit odd to incorporate), I'd probably spend more time there.

wallofomens
05-31-2013, 11:28 AM
So I'm asking the community, is it the majority of people that feel like PVE is less of a game, or is it just a few posts, or am I wrong about my interpretation?

1. Yes, I do think it is less of a game.
2. Because I prefer playing against real opponents rather than AI,
3. and because PvE is way too imbalanced with all the equipment and I prefer a more balanced experience.
4. Other people might feel differently, and prefer PvE and that's fine,
5. but I don't see PvE as competitive at all, not even close to constructed/drafts. And that's why I feel that getting exclusive stuff in PvE is fine - your experience hardly affects anyone else's.

Moondancer
05-31-2013, 11:44 AM
I hope the two experiences are pretty well kept separate. I don't want the pvp balance and bannings and errattas to affect my PvE experience. Ideal for me would be tournament viable decks and PvE viable decks would be completely different.

In my experience PvE is far more competitive as to who killed what first, who got to max level first, etc. Who has what equipment. Then simple pvp.

EntropyBall
05-31-2013, 11:46 AM
I plan on playing a lot of PVE and if there was a merc that I couldn't use I'd feel at if I was missing out on part of the game that is suppose to be Free to Play.


the exclusive that we are getting from this Kickstarter already puts us ahead of the rest. The 5 merc are awesome and no one else will ever be able to play them and are missing out on building great decks around their powers.

I just wanted to point out that this is a super-hypocritical post. You say that you think its unfair to have a PVE merc that is tied to physical goods, since then everyone won't be able to get it, but then immediately go on to point out that the KS exclusives are PVE, "awesome", and "no one else will ever be able to play them".

Future cards tied to physical goods have to be either be PVE, or terrible in competitive play, for the exact same reasons all the KS rewards are either PVE or vanity items.

jai151
05-31-2013, 11:49 AM
I hope the two experiences are pretty well kept separate. I don't want the pvp balance and bannings and errattas to affect my PvE experience. Ideal for me would be tournament viable decks and PvE viable decks would be completely different.

In my experience PvE is far more competitive as to who killed what first, who got to max level first, etc. Who has what equipment. Then simple pvp.

Okay, here are a few tidbits to ease your mind.

1) There is a complete PvE cardpool of 350 cards (PvP has 300). These are all cards built specifically for PvE, so they are crazy powerful. While you can use PvP cards in PvE, more than likely you'll want the backbone of your deck to be PvE.

2) Even if you do run mostly PvP cards, though, good news! CZE has said unless it is absolutely unavoidable (IE something that breaks the game completely), they will not errata cards.

3) Heroes in PvE are completely customizeable and completely different from the stock heroes you get in PvP.

Kilo24
05-31-2013, 11:51 AM
I think there's a decent amount of prejudice towards PvE simply because few trading card games have anything even vaguely similar to it, yet the core PvP aspects are all standard features of Magic and other games. As such, the Kickstarter promises of something new and innovative for PvE don't have an existing community to reach out to whereas those involved in Magic can just look at the PvP elements and just think "it's like Magic, but with these changes". So those who would be attracted to PvE and not PvP are in much smaller numbers than they will be when there's content to play, and those who are attracted to PvP but not necessarily PvE are currently dominating the discussions.

katkillad
05-31-2013, 11:51 AM
I'm going to PVE my balls off. Some people are going to prefer PVP, some will prefer PVE and some will do both and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Trying to define why one is better than the other is a little weird though.

Fireblast
05-31-2013, 12:09 PM
I'm going to PvP primarily and PvE during my spare time.
I'm fine with both easy farming and complicated/specific deckbuilding so I'll enjoy PvE however it's designed (according to the new artcile, PvE will have both easy and complex and time consuming stuff).

~

Moondancer
05-31-2013, 12:59 PM
Okay, here are a few tidbits to ease your mind.

1) There is a complete PvE cardpool of 350 cards (PvP has 300). These are all cards built specifically for PvE, so they are crazy powerful. While you can use PvP cards in PvE, more than likely you'll want the backbone of your deck to be PvE.

2) Even if you do run mostly PvP cards, though, good news! CZE has said unless it is absolutely unavoidable (IE something that breaks the game completely), they will not errata cards.

3) Heroes in PvE are completely customizeable and completely different from the stock heroes you get in PvP.

I just know that over the years i have seen more PvE abilities get nerfed into the ground due to very whiny PvP players that assume they are not winning because of X power is OP. It seems to be the standard response to something like that nerf it into the ground and then we will bring it back up to playable later. Well if thats your class you just got hosed by a smaller very vocal group that you do not interact with.

I think PvE is going to be much larger then some people think here i think it is the big draw for this game if i want PvP well i can go down to the LGS and play magic.

Tyrfang
05-31-2013, 01:17 PM
PvE cards aren't playable in PvP constructed, just in the anything-goes Wild-West format.

The champions you use in PvP are also balanced in a vacuum. You don't use your PvE character in PvP.

Where would the whining come from?

GhundiPI
05-31-2013, 01:27 PM
I fully expect PVE to have the largest population. Will that make PvE better than PvP? No, as that would the proverbial comparison between apples and oranges. They are different experiences in the same game, with a very small overlap between the two (probably the smallest in any MMO so far). And I also fully expect to be able to enjoy both the PvP and PvE side on a high level, though it will require quite some investment of time. All in all, looking forward to it...

Moondancer
05-31-2013, 01:53 PM
PvE cards aren't playable in PvP constructed, just in the anything-goes Wild-West format.

The champions you use in PvP are also balanced in a vacuum. You don't use your PvE character in PvP.

Where would the whining come from?

Since all PvP cards can be used in PvE when a card is deemed too powerful for PvP environment it can easily get nerfed down to a level and then ripple into PvE possibly nullifying time they spent to get gear for that card collect cards to build a deck around it etc.

Tyrfang
05-31-2013, 01:58 PM
1) Cards don't generally get nerfed unless the card causes a game-breaking unforeseen combo.

2) PvP cards in general will be weaker than PvE cards.

3) Cryptozoic doesn't like to issue ban-lists or erratas.

Anyway, they could always have the erratas only occur in PvP.

nearlysober
05-31-2013, 02:00 PM
PVPvPVE?

I'm looking forward to both... the PvE side will be a fun way to kill some time solo, but I'm also looking forward to being able to hop in a draft whenever I want, or do a constructed tourney on any given day.

jai151
05-31-2013, 03:43 PM
I just know that over the years i have seen more PvE abilities get nerfed into the ground due to very whiny PvP players that assume they are not winning because of X power is OP. It seems to be the standard response to something like that nerf it into the ground and then we will bring it back up to playable later. Well if thats your class you just got hosed by a smaller very vocal group that you do not interact with.

I think PvE is going to be much larger then some people think here i think it is the big draw for this game if i want PvP well i can go down to the LGS and play magic.

That, quite literally, cannot happen here. There's nothing for them to whine to nerf.

Ginaz
05-31-2013, 05:03 PM
If they get the pve side right and its fun to play, this game can really take off. The potential player base for pve for MMOs is much higher than it is for pvp and a strong pve game can set Hex apart from other TCG's. I plan on playing, and hopefully enjoy, both.

Tyrfang
05-31-2013, 05:08 PM
I'm pretty sure the PvE side will be more popular w/ casuals, and the PvP more popular w/ core gamers.

Just how it tends to go.

EntropyBall
05-31-2013, 05:22 PM
I think PvE is going to be much larger then some people think here i think it is the big draw for this game if i want PvP well i can go down to the LGS and play magic.

They kind of have to let PVE take a backseat to PVP. They have no mechanism for making money off the PVE. All their revenue will come from PVP. As such, those cards have to be more balanced and polished. Without competitive PVP, no one buys cards and the game dies for everyone.

Tyrfang
05-31-2013, 05:26 PM
They kind of have to let PVE take a backseat to PVP. They have no mechanism for making money off the PVE. All their revenue will come from PVP. As such, those cards have to be more balanced and polished. Without competitive PVP, no one buys cards and the game dies for everyone.

Well, you can play PvP cards in PvE, so PvE addicts might pay for packs just to put them into PvE decks.

Also, if PvE becomes stupid popular relative to PvP, they can always make PvE boosters.

Niedar
05-31-2013, 05:44 PM
Since all PvP cards can be used in PvE when a card is deemed too powerful for PvP environment it can easily get nerfed down to a level and then ripple into PvE possibly nullifying time they spent to get gear for that card collect cards to build a deck around it etc.

Cards will not be changed, they will only be banned if they are found to be too powerful which they hope to be very rare. I doubt a PvP card that is banned would be banned in PvE so I am not sure how that will have any affect.

hexinggems
05-31-2013, 08:23 PM
They kind of have to let PVE take a backseat to PVP. They have no mechanism for making money off the PVE. All their revenue will come from PVP. As such, those cards have to be more balanced and polished. Without competitive PVP, no one buys cards and the game dies for everyone.

Yes and no, I think they see PvE as the gateway drug so to say, into the PvP world, kind of like how Magic has Dotp acting as a gateway. The PvE side should have a broader audience, and by making it F2P you bring in a larger audience and get them familar with the systems and such, hoping some will jump into PvP at some point who never whould have given your game a chance before.

Tyrfang
05-31-2013, 08:26 PM
Yes and no, I think they see PvE as the gateway drug so to say, into the PvP world, kind of like how Magic has Dotp acting as a gateway. The PvE side should have a broader audience, and by making it F2P you bring in a larger audience and get them familar with the systems and such, hoping some will jump into PvP at some point who never whould have given your game a chance before.

If DOTP is the gateway to Magic, I don't see the game growing much...

But yeah, they want the PvE to be the main 'draw', and the PvP is where they make their money when people grow into competitive players.

Niedar
05-31-2013, 08:30 PM
If DOTP is the gateway to Magic, I don't see the game growing much...

But yeah, they want the PvE to be the main 'draw', and the PvP is where they make their money when people grow into competitive players.

How could anyone go to MTGO client after playing DOTP?

Tyrfang
05-31-2013, 08:32 PM
How could anyone go to MTGO client after playing DOTP?

I don't really understand why they refuse to update the MTGO interface, or why they refuse to have a full version of DOTP that allows you to build custom decks...

I have to stop derailing topics.

BlindMan
05-31-2013, 08:42 PM
I don't really understand why they refuse to update the MTGO interface, or why they refuse to have a full version of DOTP that allows you to build custom decks...

I have to stop derailing topics.

This is classic though. How many people here have looked at MTGO and DOTP and thought, "What the hell Wizards, you have all the pieces, put them together!!"

What's that? Over 10,000 people now? :D

Tyrfang
05-31-2013, 08:43 PM
I think there's someone in Hasbro who is afraid that the paper TCG version will die.

BlindMan
05-31-2013, 08:47 PM
Considering the level of crossover in their player bases, that just seems silly. I can understand not wanting to just give all the cards out in the digital version, but keeping MTGO crappy is just stupid.