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Brumby66
05-31-2013, 04:11 PM
I just had another what if thought. I saw the globe in one of the videos and was thinking... What if a blip came up for open world Boss. I always enjoyed the claim wars and the experience of getting everyone together for the kill. I don't think people share the same world in this game like they do in MMORPG's, but it was just something I thought I'd throw out there. It would allow f2p players an equal chance at rare pve loot and allow for some real competition in pve. I believe that in order to make PvE successful, you need to implement an aspect that encourages people to want to stay in the game. I remember getting calls from guildies at 2 in the morning saying certain bosses had spawned. This really added to the feeling of achievement and comradery.

Ideas:

1) Everybody works together to take down a boss and is awarded according to contribution.

2) Allow for guild vs guild vs boss. (some sort of PvPvE system)

3) Multiple aspects are required of different parties to defeat boss. (An example would be the completion of a puzzle taking down a shield while another group attacks the boss.)

wallofomens
05-31-2013, 04:15 PM
I think something like this could work. For example from time to time a certain world boss appears. Then the "event" would have different objectives that need to be completed X number of times and these are available to all players. You don't necessarily get to play as a group, but everyone is involed in beating the world boss.

Lunarath
05-31-2013, 04:15 PM
If you did some event on a timer maybe maybe, giving it like a set amount of health, beating it takes 1 health off it. Having everyone help

I don't know if that would work, just something i thought about. I can't see it being implemented in other ways

Hadin
05-31-2013, 04:15 PM
I don't think it is possible to do something like this. What I would like to see is a raid encounter that was relatively spontaneous. The event would randomly show up on the world map (or wherever) and be available for 30-60 minutes. Any player/group that attempted the encounter would have as long as they needed to complete it, but actually accessing it would require coordinating within that 30-60 min time frame.

Tyrfang
05-31-2013, 04:36 PM
It's possible to do something like this.

Have a huge raid boss with tons of HP.
Allow people to fight it in groups of 1-3 like a normal raid.
The Hp is whittled down cumulatively.
When the Raid Boss dies, you get loot drops based on your % contribution to the overall damage of the boss (in comparison to other players).

Brumby66
05-31-2013, 05:13 PM
It's possible to do something like this.

Have a huge raid boss with tons of HP.
Allow people to fight it in groups of 1-3 like a normal raid.
The Hp is whittled down cumulatively.
When the Raid Boss dies, you get loot drops based on your % contribution to the overall damage of the boss (in comparison to other players).

I was thinking of boss claims by a single party, because I've always played as a hardcore player, but I like your take on it. I agree that everyone should get to partake and that rewards can be given and scaled with damage dealt. That's why I like throwing out ideas. Sometimes people give you a new perspective. The only problem with the amount of damage is that there is a card that does 500(?) damage. I like your take on Open World PvE Bosses. Thanks and it'd be cool if we could see this idea come into fruition.

Tyrfang
05-31-2013, 05:17 PM
You could refine it further by calculating stuff into contribution points and give bonuses for destroying enemy creatures or healing/enchanting allied creatures/players, but the basic gist is the same.

Madican
05-31-2013, 05:19 PM
Don't base it on damage. But if there was something like five different objectives for people to choose from, and each completed objective did a chunk of damage, then there could be a ton of games going on for overlapping objectives and whittling the boss down.

RoyalNightGuard
05-31-2013, 05:21 PM
Or how about your big boss has a whole bunch of minions that have to be defeated in groups of 1-3 each. After all the minions are cleared, the boss becomes available as a raid. I think the people saying that world events aren't possible didn't spend five minutes thinking about the problem, tbh.

Brumby66
05-31-2013, 05:26 PM
Or how about your big boss has a whole bunch of minions that have to be defeated in groups of 1-3 each. After all the minions are cleared, the boss becomes available as a raid. I think the people saying that world events aren't possible didn't spend five minutes thinking about the problem, tbh.

I assumed that the world is not necessarily open. My globe would not show live events. I assumed it was more like selecting a dungeon or level. I don't know if there are interactions between each players events. Most of the dungeons are single player and I don't know enough about the pve side to know how it works. Is it possible? Absolutely. Is it easily implemented? No clue.

Crystalis
05-31-2013, 06:58 PM
It is very much possible, I know at least 2 games (from same company) who do it regurally. Clash of Dragons and Legacy of Heroes. The way they do it is basically a timed repeatable boss fight with multiple difficulty settings. Completing it awards points, failing less points. At end of a set time you get rewards based on how many points earned.

Their other 2 games, different genre, do similiar via damage done tiers like how Tyrfang suggested. The system used there for normal bosses was player cap * it's hp in damage for best rewards. And world ones just being a timer no HP with damage/reward tiers and stuff that could drop on each hit.

Admitedly not the most interesting of methods but it could be expanded. For example a gated dungeon, as all the players do the dungeon or quests related to it new sections open up until reach the final phase. If want to go bit further could also use the racial/class/faction gating them mentioned some dungeons might allow for special missions that speed up progression slightly more.

There is also the option of conditionals, specific cards or combos that serve as sort of secrets to speed up unlocking or alter things. While it could be brute forced if they plan it right by including lore and hints, like the Mayor in the Kraken, it would be something community would work on. Could even have some of the combos unlock "treasure rooms" for everyone that gives a reward when solve a puzzle.

If want more hands on could even have a card sharing mechanic, like the Kraken tentacles except your card goes to someone else while in there. For example "You find X minion in the labyrinth, he got seperated from his champion and lost, will tag along with you for X games.". Simple concept, at least partially using an existing mechanic, and is a more direct form of contact and interaction. Go a little further could even have certain events that trigger it on purpose for some sort of bonus, or even a side path. For example the option to take a different route to search for your lost ally.

Since there is crafting could take a page from WoW, opening of Ahn'Qiraj do not know if other games did this, which had the whole server donating resources to npcs for rewards. When a set amount is donated and the epic quest chain is completed it opened for everyone permanently.

A few other thoughts come to mind of how it could work but you get the idea, while everyone fighting as a group would not work there are many ways to tie things together and allow the population as a whole to work together towards one goal.

Ok should stop there, have rambled enough. The only issue with world unlocks is the fact they mentioned it being a single server, a bit of an overwhelming number when it comes to shared progression so would need to be very finely tuned.

TL:DR, it can work interaction just has to be asynchronous and/or working towards same goal without direct interaction. Alot of potential in the concept and things can do that would not work as well outside of a special event.

Sidewinder
05-31-2013, 07:18 PM
This got me thinking (hoping?) that there will be separate chats for different places, so people "in" the same city would be talking to each other. That way it will feel more like a true mmo. People will talk strats, look for groups, etc...

Tyrfang
05-31-2013, 07:29 PM
This got me thinking (hoping?) that there will be separate chats for different places, so people "in" the same city would be talking to each other. That way it will feel more like a true mmo. People will talk strats, look for groups, etc...

That would be feasible if they did it based on region (IP lookup) or just limited the number of people in a zone's chat room to around 100-200, but...
There's no travel time, and no reason to afk "in town", so I'm not sure how useful it would be.

Madican
05-31-2013, 07:30 PM
Oh please no trade chat. At least not without a dedicated moderator.

Talreth
05-31-2013, 07:49 PM
Oh please no trade chat. At least not without a dedicated moderator.

The only thing that ever slightly bothered me about trade chat was gold spammers. Gogogogogo trade chat

Madican
05-31-2013, 08:08 PM
Gold spammers, plain spammers, scammers, idiots, racists, elitists, people trying to sell things, people insulting the people trying to sell things, etc.

It's a melting pot of horrible people.

Brumby66
05-31-2013, 08:17 PM
Gold spammers, plain spammers, scammers, idiots, racists, elitists, people trying to sell things, people insulting the people trying to sell things, etc.

It's a melting pot of horrible people.

Yeah. Trade chat isn't all that important to me. I think if an open world boss is up, the word will spread like wildfire in guilds and between guilds. In most of the MMO's I've played the first person to discover the boss will tell their guild. After that, someone leaks it to another guild and so on. Zone chat doesn't serve a huge purpose in this situation. I really want to push the open world bosses idea, because I believe that the PvE side of the game needs more competition and reasons to want to be active. While playing at your own pace is great, I think we need something that is going to make us want to stay on. I remember giving my phone number to guildies and we would text each other when bosses spawned. This really added to my sense of community.

Sidewinder
05-31-2013, 08:31 PM
I meant it more similar to the rooms in MTGO. To give you the feel of a real MMO, the world is shared, even the PVE world. So when you click to go to the Shin'hare capital, you'll join a chat with everyone else who is in that city. It's the first thing that came to mind as I tried to imagine how they are going to make PVE more MMO-ey. Yes, that's a word ><

clorox
05-31-2013, 09:03 PM
I really like where Crystalis is going with those ideas. World PVE and Event PVE are very attractive to me because it fits in with the larger evolving story and can modify the meta of the whole community (at least the PVE side).

I hope that timed events are doable. I really enjoy the seasonal components of many MMOs as it is a break from the normal game and lets everyone try a different flavour for a time.

I've been kicking around a few thoughts...

Multi-phase events - This is the introduction of a dungeon or a raid over time, through a number of smaller dungeons. This could be presented as a mini-dungeon that spawns as a small (single) world event (or multiple small instances of the same, maybe with some slight variation). This "first wave" would introduce some card concepts that would be present in future events in the same theme.

Additional encounters would be introduced after the community meets certain criteria or after a set amount of time. Encounters can even be branching, depending on those criteria. Encounters would continue to build up into a final boss fight or a whole dungeon/raid.

Consumable cards used as resources and keyed to this and future encounters - The key idea on these small encounters is that players would earn consumable cards that would be designed to be very useful against future encounters in the same theme. These cards may even have a dual effect of being used as some sort of currency, much like the WoW AQ reference above. Trading them in would somehow benefit everyone instead of just you.



What AQ brought with it (iirc) was also the idea of summonable boss fights. If the players collected enough of the correct resource, they could summon forth a particular boss.

I really like this idea for Guilds. If enough of these cards existed in the Guild Bank, a boss could be summoned, specifically for that Guild to fight.

I'm starting to ramble a bit as my mind goes off in different directions... All I know now is that PVE is gonna be awesome even with 1/4 of what I think it might be.

Talreth
05-31-2013, 09:06 PM
If it is a discoverable thing I have to be the first :( so I can not tell anyone and farm it with two people in a raid

LostKR
05-31-2013, 09:08 PM
I hope World Events happen at least. I remember the opening of AQ40 in WoW was a MASSIVE event filled with a donation tally and different raid events in AQ20. I'm hoping for something similar in Hex with maybe guilds competing and the first guild that fills all the objectives gets a cool exclusive vanity prize (AQ40 was a mount and the Scarab Lord title). Anyway Heres hoping!

http://www.wowwiki.com/Gates_of_Ahn'Qiraj - Link to the event for the folks that didnt catch AQ40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0kDqUlgM5c - youtube for the memories :-)

Tyrfang
05-31-2013, 09:13 PM
Yeah, I remember being on the vanilla servers back when AQ40 was opened.

I was actually in one of the guilds that was trying to clear it...

I don't really want to remember it.

Skirovik
05-31-2013, 09:15 PM
If it is a discoverable thing I have to be the first :( so I can not tell anyone and farm it with two people in a raid

Or it could like Guild Wars 2 where everyone who participates (whether in groups or as individuals) gets rewarded at the end of the event.

I see absolutely no benefit to having something "tagged" by 1 player and restricting it to them and their friends. Why not let the whole world join in? :)

Beastmaster
05-31-2013, 09:15 PM
I think that the Marathon Tournament style that has been planned for PvP could be very interesting if modified into a World event... maybe a guild battle with 'death' being a set time on the bench before being able to rejoin the battle.

Or a PvE faction battle with players defending against enemies from their opposing faction. Instead of additional boosters, you can add any cards you win to your sealed starter deck for use in the marathon tournament

Talreth
05-31-2013, 09:18 PM
Or it could like Guild Wars 2 where everyone who participates (whether in groups or as individuals) gets rewarded at the end of the event.

I see absolutely no benefit to having something "tagged" by 1 player and restricting it to them and their friends. Why not let the whole world join in? :)

I just said I wouldn't tell anyone, not that it had to be like exclusive loot rights.

Skirovik
05-31-2013, 09:21 PM
I just said I wouldn't tell anyone, not that it had to be like exclusive loot rights.

But if you got rewarded the same (as long as your help is somewhat meaningful), why wouldn't you tell others?

I think it would work even better if you really needed a good amount of people to beat it. :D

Madican
05-31-2013, 09:22 PM
Yeah, I remember being on the vanilla servers back when AQ40 was opened.

I was actually in one of the guilds that was trying to clear it...

I don't really want to remember it.

Entire server crowds Silithus. Server crashes.

Entire server teleported to Orgrimmar/Ironforge. Server gets on flight paths.

Alliance arrives to Menethil Harbor and boards the boat. Boat leaves.

Suddenly boat is flying around Stonetalon Mountains for no real reason. Server crashes again.

Entire server back in Org/IF. Repeat process.

Tyrfang
05-31-2013, 09:27 PM
Lol, no one gave a crap about raiding in my 3rd tier server.

Talreth
05-31-2013, 09:31 PM
But if you got rewarded the same (as long as your help is somewhat meaningful), why wouldn't you tell others?

I think it would work even better if you really needed a good amount of people to beat it. :D

I think you should be rewarded based on contribution

Gwaer
05-31-2013, 10:14 PM
Go mannoroth! Or back to everquest; Go druzzil ro!

Man, totally got hit with EQ nostalgia =/ Those were the days.

Brumby66
06-01-2013, 06:53 PM
Go mannoroth! Or back to everquest; Go druzzil ro!

Man, totally got hit with EQ nostalgia =/ Those were the days.

The nostalgia that gamers feel when they think back to certain events is the reason that I think people would enjoy this aspect of the game.