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TheWrathofShane
06-01-2013, 08:34 PM
Anyone else feel this is the worst gem in the game? I think its the only gem that gives a real drawback. The blood minor is not really a drawback in aggro decks.


There might be some combos for increasing the cmc of a card by 1. But overall its a major drawback and very little reward. I like the rest of the gems but I hope this one gets changed! What do you guys think?

TheWrathofShane
06-01-2013, 08:36 PM
Something with a minor socket with only 1 cost total could benefit from the minor diamond, making it a 2 cost creature instead. Thats the only thing I can really think of but your still probably better off with wild and get the +1/+1 next turn Kind of like kird ape.

Avaian
06-01-2013, 08:37 PM
Its good in inspire decks.

TheWrathofShane
06-01-2013, 08:38 PM
Its good in inspire decks.

Situational..

IndigoShade
06-01-2013, 08:39 PM
The blood minor gem that gives +2/+0 also makes it so the crea..troop can't block. The +1 cost might actually be a good thing for inspire decks.

TheWrathofShane
06-01-2013, 08:40 PM
The blood minor gem that gives +2/+0 also makes it so the crea..troop can't block. The +1 cost might actually be a good thing for inspire decks.

Trust me the decks that will be using the blood minor, do not care about blocking and +2 power is sick.
The +1 cost is a real drawback for little reward, and is situational for inspire decks.

Avaian
06-01-2013, 08:44 PM
There could be other cards that benefit from a higher cost, but with the cards we know of so far it works best in Inspire decks. Its too early to determine its value.

MisterBurkes
06-01-2013, 08:45 PM
If you have a low HP creature that you need for a combo, it makes sense to have that extra +1/+2 for +1 cost.

TheWrathofShane
06-01-2013, 08:46 PM
Yes it might be situational in some kind of combo.
But generally speaking this gem blows.

wallofomens
06-01-2013, 08:52 PM
The red one that make your opponent lose a resource point when the troop deals damage to them(assuming it is equal to tapping a land, not destroying a land, it is not quite clear) and the white gem where you gain life equal to the troop's cost are probably the worst. The +1 cost +1/+2 is probably after them, but as some people mentioned, it could be decent in Inspire based decks.

Tyrfang
06-01-2013, 08:56 PM
Although we haven't seen that many socketed cards, it's worthwhile in situations where you need to up the power curve of a troop in limited.

Honestly, I feel none of the Diamond gems really fits my playstyle.

EDIT: Wait, do Major gems increase threshold requirements by 1 or 2?

Avaian
06-01-2013, 08:59 PM
I could see Master Beast Rider with the +1 cost +1/+2 Diamond Gem. Giving a troop +3/+4 for a cost of 4 for a turn could be useful.

Madican
06-01-2013, 08:59 PM
Diamond as a whole feels kind of lacking. I don't know what its theme is at a glance. I mean I can say Ruby is damage, Sapphire is control, Wild is swarms and growth, and Blood plays games with the life counters. Diamond though? It just seems defensive, which isn't very good.

Tyrfang
06-01-2013, 09:00 PM
Diamond is life-gain/damage prevention with some control and late game?

TheWrathofShane
06-01-2013, 09:04 PM
The red one that make your opponent lose a resource point when the troop deals damage to them(assuming it is equal to tapping a land, not destroying a land, it is not quite clear) and the white gem where you gain life equal to the troop's cost are probably the worst. The +1 cost +1/+2 is probably after them, but as some people mentioned, it could be decent in Inspire based decks.


Actually the health gain ontop of a creature is stronger then most people are thinking! Great counter to burn type decks, the best way to gain health is when its tagged onto a creature.

Madican
06-01-2013, 09:04 PM
Which just seems weak considering there's several Blood cards that take an opponent's life and gives it to you, has lots of control via Murder and troops that can come back/can only be blocked by certain types, and if allowed to the late game can start sacrificing for bruisers.

TheWrathofShane
06-01-2013, 09:07 PM
Which just seems weak considering there's several Blood cards that take an opponent's life and gives it to you, has lots of control via Murder and troops that can come back/can only be blocked by certain types, and if allowed to the late game can start sacrificing for bruisers.

Remember you dont always have acess to every resource unless your playing prismatic.
The sapphire gems are defitally incredible.. Flying/flash for minor, cantrip for major, your kidding.

But I wouldn't underestimate the hardy little lifegain from the white gem major.

Edit: Think thragtusk.

Madican
06-01-2013, 09:11 PM
Remember you dont always have acess to every resource unless your playing prismatic.
The sapphire gems are defitally incredible.. Flying/flash for minor, cantrip for major, your kidding.

But I wouldn't underestimate the hardy little lifegain from the white gem major.

Edit: Think thragtusk.

Assuming I even play Diamond. It's just not looking appealing to me when I consider the other colors. The only thing I think interests me is when Diamond is paired with the Humans and their Inspire effect.

Grissnap
06-01-2013, 09:12 PM
As someone mentioned before, its pretty decent for filling out your mana curve in limited.

TheWrathofShane
06-01-2013, 09:13 PM
Assuming I even play Diamond. It's just not looking appealing to me when I consider the other colors. The only thing I think interests me is when Diamond is paired with the Humans and their Inspire effect.

Esp that ruby minor, SPEED!!
Oh my goodness that is probably the best gem in the game for bomb type creatures. Just imagine Inferno Titan with free haste...

TheWrathofShane
06-01-2013, 09:14 PM
As someone mentioned before, its pretty decent for filling out your mana curve in limited.

Okay I will give you that..
Useable in limited, unplayable in constructed (unless some situational combo)

Talreth
06-01-2013, 09:15 PM
Where are you guys seeing the gems?

Avaian
06-01-2013, 09:16 PM
http://hextcg.com/socketed-cards/

Tyrfang
06-01-2013, 09:16 PM
Where are you guys seeing the gems?

http://hextcg.com/socketed-cards/

Talreth
06-01-2013, 09:16 PM
Found it..thanks guys :D

I feel like it could be really useful situationally as you guys said. Like what if there's a good card and the +1/+2 puts it out of range of the typical burn or creature control in the meta? Stuff like that.

TheWrathofShane
06-01-2013, 09:43 PM
Found it..thanks guys :D

I feel like it could be really useful situationally as you guys said. Like what if there's a good card and the +1/+2 puts it out of range of the typical burn or creature control in the meta? Stuff like that.

Then why not take out the extra cost and +0/+2
Oh I guess they must have that situational combo with inspire thats probably never getting used.

Madican
06-01-2013, 09:47 PM
Looking at the gems, I'd rather give my troops Steadfast anyway if I'm going to use a Diamond minor.

Tyrfang
06-01-2013, 09:52 PM
My question with diamond minor is this:
"Each gem will enhance the card it is socketed onto in some way, provided that you control at least one of the shard thresholds that is associated with that gem. If you don’t have that threshold, you can still play your card as normal, but that power won’t activate until you obtain the necessary threshold."

Does that mean you can play the card, THEN the resource to activate the gem's effect, basically negating the cost increase?

TheWrathofShane
06-01-2013, 09:54 PM
My question with diamond minor is this:
"Each gem will enhance the card it is socketed onto in some way, provided that you control at least one of the shard thresholds that is associated with that gem. If you don’t have that threshold, you can still play your card as normal, but that power won’t activate until you obtain the necessary threshold."

Does that mean you can play the card, THEN the resource to activate the gem's effect, basically negating the cost increase?

You would think yeah. Sounds like a frustrating noob trap.

Ryoma_Echizen
06-01-2013, 10:26 PM
My question with diamond minor is this:
"Each gem will enhance the card it is socketed onto in some way, provided that you control at least one of the shard thresholds that is associated with that gem. If you don’t have that threshold, you can still play your card as normal, but that power won’t activate until you obtain the necessary threshold."

Does that mean you can play the card, THEN the resource to activate the gem's effect, basically negating the cost increase?

I hope this is possible. Gives the gem extra utility. Though I'd guess it'll be used in relation to things that activate on toughness or cost. For example "gain life equal to this creature's toughness" or "destroy all creatures with less cost than this card." type of effects. Also as people have said it helps fill out a curve.

theradol
06-01-2013, 10:42 PM
I mostly agree with you guys that normally 1/2 is not a good trade for 1 cost however this is not mtg, so it really remains to be seen.

And even in mtg there is a big difference in standard between a 3 and a 4 because there is very little 4 damage removal (mizzium mortars, and its not commonly run)

So a card with a powerful ability and a minor socket at like 1/2 base p/t and 2 cost might be better at 2/4 for 3.

TheWrathofShane
06-01-2013, 11:12 PM
I mostly agree with you guys that normally 1/2 is not a good trade for 1 cost however this is not mtg, so it really remains to be seen.

And even in mtg there is a big difference in standard between a 3 and a 4 because there is very little 4 damage removal (mizzium mortars, and its not commonly run)

So a card with a powerful ability and a minor socket at like 1/2 base p/t and 2 cost might be better at 2/4 for 3.

Why not ditch the 1 extra cost and change it to +0/+2

Like I said, besides "inspire combo" which is situational, +1 cost is a pretty big drawback. The cannot block drawback for the blood minor is barely a drawback.

EdwardBishop
06-02-2013, 12:02 AM
The cannot block drawback for the blood minor is barely a drawback.
That is not at all true by my own play style... my goal is to play blood/diamond decks, in which not being able to block with a card if it were neccessary would put me at a risque disadvantage...

On the same hand, +1/+2 for 1, as was said above, will be better on some cards than others, I could definently see myself using it for 'good ability but low survivability' cards...

TheWrathofShane
06-02-2013, 12:25 AM
That is not at all true by my own play style... my goal is to play blood/diamond decks, in which not being able to block with a card if it were neccessary would put me at a risque disadvantage...

On the same hand, +1/+2 for 1, as was said above, will be better on some cards than others, I could definently see myself using it for 'good ability but low survivability' cards...


Let me clarify. Decks who will go for that +2 power, their creatures are not going to be untapped. Hence its barely a drawback for the type it deck that its going in.

So it sounds like you are going for the minor diamond gem for the survivability aspect (the +0/+2 part). It seems like your not going to be swinging with these creatures much, rather use them for there ability.

So how about +0/+2 and defensive? Kind of mirroring the blood one.... But that only limits it to creatures who do not want to attack of course. Personally I would rather see that drawback instead of the +1 cost drawback, but to each his own.

lucedes
06-02-2013, 12:51 AM
+1/+2 and +1 cost makes your 4/4 a 5/6
or your 1/1 into a 2/3, that seems pretty relevant honestly
or your 2/2 into a 3/4, that's actually pretty good

seems like it could be pretty sweet in limited, honestly
gives you big beefy creatures, lets you raise your curve a little.
it's pretty much trash in constructed, though.

TheWrathofShane
06-02-2013, 01:29 AM
it's pretty much trash in constructed, though.

This... I am not a limited player honestly.

Just saying +1/+1 for wild makes the diamond one look like crap..

Fireblast
06-02-2013, 02:12 AM
Since :
- you can only have 4 of each gem in a deck (Cory said so during geekallstars podcast)
- you need to have the right threshold for the gem to have its power
it's logical to have gems better than others.

~

NaryaDL0re
06-02-2013, 03:36 AM
not having read this entire thread so unsure if this has been proposed already.

I also believe this to be underpowered in comparrison.
(talking from a huge backround experience in competetive magic)

Depending on sweet interactions with inspire etc, it might be sufficiant to make it +1/+3.
Given the very defensive style diamond is supposed to express that should fit their lore.

Also historically defense has always been much much lower value than attack,
+1/+4 might still be too bad.

(example, no 1 or 2 drop in magic would have above 3 attack without significant drawback.
Yet there are easily 5+ toughness creatures at those costs, even with additional upsides)

This entire argument holds true for the keywords as well btw.
"Steadfast" is not nearly as strong as "flight" or "speed".
Yes there will be corner-cases when its better, but giving diamond
universally worse gems is hurting the color balance as a whole, assuming
gems are having a relevant effect on color choice.

What I d like to see is a fuse of Steadfast +1/+2(3) and cost +1. And another gem.
That would be quite intriuging to play with, since adding this toughness
certainly becomes relevant, once you can attack and block more freely via Steadfast.

This last gem certainly has problematic applications for limited (unless you make it major).
But than again, its nigh impossible to create gems that are valuable enough in constructed
and not very powerfull in limited, unless you balance the socketed creatures very harshly.

MasterN64
06-02-2013, 05:22 AM
You guys are all forgetting that Steadfast/vigilance will be a fairly standard diamond/white ability also if the trend holds. A +1/+2 on a troop that doesnt tap even for an extra resource isnt a bad deal. Throw in the fact with the extra cost it gets more likely to get buffed from inspire too.

WSzaboPeter
06-02-2013, 05:48 AM
You guys keep forgetting, that aconstructed or limited deck does not need to be monocolored. In MTG quite a few tier1 decks run 3 colors. I would say, that non-red decks that run a single color are quite rare. In the recent years only monoG Eldrazi Ramp had some success. In the past there was monoB Fish, and WhiteWeenee, and at some point even monoB, but 2-3 color decks are normal. 4-5 is also very rare, but 4colorControl (4cc) used to be great back in the days. Long story short: not all colors are made equal, and this is not imbalance. You will NOT play white vs. Green. You will most likely play white-blood control versus green-red stompy or something like that.

Slish
06-02-2013, 08:24 AM
Where can I find info about the gems?

Tyrfang
06-02-2013, 08:26 AM
Where can I find info about the gems?


Where are you guys seeing the gems?


http://hextcg.com/socketed-cards/

No offense, but how'd you miss that?

Slish
06-02-2013, 08:27 AM
Sorry Tyrfang.. But thanks for the quick reply anyways :D

Zomnivore
06-02-2013, 08:35 AM
I'm interested in how gemed cards will affect drafting value.

Seems like a pretty interesting concept to have in a draft.

Tyrfang
06-02-2013, 09:00 AM
I'm interested in how gemed cards will affect drafting value.

Seems like a pretty interesting concept to have in a draft.

People will just draft them unless they're flooded with creatures already, because they can fit in multiple spots on a mana curve.

Talreth
06-02-2013, 10:08 AM
No offense, but how'd you miss that?

I thought it would be under the cards section :c

jaxsonbateman
06-02-2013, 10:21 AM
Haven't read many posts in this thread, but while it isn't completely terrible, you're right, it's one of the worse gems, and almost certainly the worst minor.

As for the gems, the one thing I'm curious about that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere - do you need to have the threshold of that color to 'activate' the gem? Or is it perfectly fine to, say, socket a wild creature with a sapphire gem even if I'm playing a deck without a single blue source?

Edit: never mind, just saw it on the gems page. Must've been why I thought it was the case in the first place. :-P

SingerOfW
06-02-2013, 10:36 AM
I'm just waiting for a low-cost socketed card to give the "land destruction" gem to. Because come on, it's repeatable land destruction. Giving it to a creature with evasion or speed will work wonders, too.

NaryaDL0re
06-02-2013, 11:02 AM
I'm just waiting for a low-cost socketed card to give the "land destruction" gem to. Because come on, it's repeatable land destruction. Giving it to a creature with evasion or speed will work wonders, too.

its certainly one of the gems with the most "Broken" potential.