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DanTheMeek
06-02-2013, 01:25 PM
So we haven't even seen close to all the pvp cards in the first set, so there's a strong possibility there are plenty of cards I'll want to add I just haven't seen yet, or that knowing exactly what other cards I'll be going up against in the meta will effect some of my deck building decisions. That said, never hurts to start planning decks out so that's what I've done. While I'm not normally a fan of swarm decks, or anthropomorphic animals, but I am a huge fan of rabbits so I'm hopeful that shin'hare will be a viable deck type in set 1. Below is my set up and reasoning behind each inclusion with a rating thrown in just for fun, 3 being decent, 2 being below average, 4 above average, etc. I'm not really sure how viable the deck will be as, despite being about rabbits, the shin'hare revealed so far seem to operate on a slow but steady turtle style, with most of their shin'hare generators costing a lot and taking a long time to actually get going but its all going to be relative to how fast the other decks move.

Key Cards (12):

4x Bucktooth Commander (3 cost, 2 wild) - 2/2 Constant Effect: All other shin'hair you control get +1/+1
- Seems like a Shin'haire swarm deck staple, but even if you only have two other shin'haire you're getting 4 attack and defense (2 on him and 2 given to other friendlys) which seems pretty solid for 3 cost. If things are running as you want in a battle hopper generating shin'hare deck, there will be a lot more then that, making these bucktooth commanders flat out game winners.
RATING: 5/5

4x Runts of the Litter (2 cost, 1 wild) Basic Action: Create three battle hoppers and put them into play.
- Unlike the commander, I dont' know that this would actually be worth it outside of a shin'hare swarm style, but at least in set one that seems to be pretty much the entire focus of the shin'hare race, so I expect it will be a staple at least at launch. Battle hoppers, as 0/1 effectless creatures, aren't much to look at initially, but the goal of this deck is to get tons of things of type shin'hare out, regardless of there stats, and maximize the effectiveness of cards that give buffs to every friendly shin'hare (such as the commander) or take advantage of having expendable creatures around. Unlike Concubunny and Wretched Brood, this creates a lot of them, fast, and on the cheap. In the early game, you can afford to play it, and in the late game, those battle hoppers you're generating likely are going to be recieving immediate buffs, or getting used immediately to power other efects. All a round solid card for the theme as far as i can tell, though, like most shin'hare cards, I don't know that I'd ever take it in a draft.
RATING: 4/5

4x Ritualist of the Spring Litter (4 cost, 2 wild) - 1/1 Constant Efect: At the start of your turn gain +1/0 for each shin'hare you control.
- It is with great pleasure I present to you my favorite art of the set so far, really love those adorable baby rabbits and that the concubunnies look cool instead of sexual. Now truth here, when I first read this I thought she got +1 attack for every shin'hare you controlled. Then after re-reading it I questioned if maybe it gave +1 attack instead to every shin'hare you controlled, so a weaker bucktooth commander, but that made no sense either. Then I finally (I believe) figured it out, that its giving you, the champion, +1 temporary resource for each shin'hare you control. Now that high cost and those terrible stats make sense! Now this card is a little on the slow side, doing absolutely nothing the turn you play it, and you better believe its going to be the target of burns and other troop destruction actions as its quite vulnerable, but if you can keep it alive until your next turn, it gives you an effect worth the wait. With even one ritualst out, every Runts of the Litter in your deck becomes a "put 3 exhausted colorless resources into play, these resources are also 0/1 shin'hare troops". Get multiple Ritualists out and even a few battle hoppers and you're gonna have more mana then you know what to do with. Its certainly not with out its flaws, but seems like a card worth building a deck around to me.
RATING: 4/5

Additional Battle Hopper Generators (8):

4x Wretched Brood (3 cost, 1 blood) Constant Effect: At the start of your turn, lose one health, then create a battle hopper and put it into play.
- I admit, I don't' care for this art, I mean its well drawn, from a purely artistic perspective I like it, but I want my enemy to feel like he's losing to adorable little bunnies, not sticky naked mole rats. That said, Wretched Brood is one of the three battle hopper generators we've been revealed to date, and as this theme is all about generating as many shin'hare as possible, its hard not to include a card like this in this theme. As mentioned above, this card is a little on the slow side, not only costing 3 to play the first turn and 1 non-optional health every turn there after, but not even generating its battle hopper until the turn after you play it. And just to be clear, battle hoppers not only have a base attack of 0, but they don't have Speed (whats up with that, they're rabbits!) so if you're hopping (hehe) to attack with the generated battle hopper, that's yet another turn you'll have to wait. Whether or not this card actually proves worth running will hinge largely on how slow the meta is, as it won't be till at least 3 turns after you play it that you'll actually come out ahead (having created two battle hoppers) in the number of Shin'hare created over, say, just playing an actual shin'hare troop, and as they will be 0/1 troops, unless your planning to sacrifice them or exhaust them, you'd probably still be better off with a single shin'hare with actually decent stats and or effect. If the meta does prove to be really slow, and these things do tend to hang around for 5+ turns, however, they can eventually be useful... if still pretty expensive with that life burn...
RATING: 2/5

4x Concubunny (3 cost, 1 wild) - 0/1 Quick(?) effect (cost 1, exhaust, exhaust another shin'haire you control): Create a battle hopper
- This is my second favorite art of the set so far but, but much like Wretch Brooded, if I'm being honest, I'm not sure if she's really good enough to use. Her stats couldn't be worse, her cost is very high for said stats, and her effect is extremely expensive costing resources, tapping herself, and tapping another, shin'hare only, troop you control on top of that and what do you get for it all? A single 0/1 with no effect creature with summoning sickness. I'm okay with the fact that she needs to "tap" another shin'hare to create another shin'hare, in fact I find it kind of amusing in a childish way, but I feel like she really needed to either not tap herself, or not cost a resource every time she activates her ability as the combination of all 3 just seems to much for such an expensive and weak creature (both the concubunny herself, and the battle hopper she summons). At least unlike wretched brood she's not a danger to kill you (doesn't burn you for 1 every turn) and despite those awful base stats, being a troop, and a shin'hare no less, she can be used with as well as benefits from all your other shin'hare related effects, but she suffers the same issue of being really slow and relying on a slow meta for her to truly be viable. I plan to try this card out at first as if I was going to use her in any deck, it would be a shin'haire swarm deck like this, but my initial impression is that she either needs to be faster, or cheaper, to warrant play.
RATING: 2/5

Cards to Abuse Mass Battle Hoppers (12):
4x Necessary Sacrifice (4 cost, 2 blood) Basic Action: (sacrifice a troop): Draw 3 cards.
- So we've got tons of resources, but now what do we do with it? Well one option is to just play lots of cards. But what happens when those cards run out? Well that's when you draw more of course. You could argue that, as you have to give up a troop to use it, Necessary Sacrifice is really only giving you +1 card advantage, but ideally you want to be sacrificing battle hoppers, and based on Runts of the Litter I consider a battle hopper really only a third of a card. This is definitely no ancestral recall, or even brain storm for that matter, but there's a reason the cost of draw cards in magic the gathering have continually gone up as time has gone on, card advantage is a powerful thing, and even with out ritualist, 4 is not completely unreasonable for a non-saphire draw 3.
RATING: 3/5

4x Evolve (3 cost, 1 wild) - Basic Action: All troops you control get +1/+1 permanently.
- Hey, its bucktooth commander again... except with out the 2/2 body or shin'hare troop status. In exchange this card also buffs non-shin'hare, though I admit I only have one in this initial build of the deck. Its effect is also (theoretically) harder to remove, as a single burn completely shutdown good ol' bucktooth. It's biggest drawback, however, if actually that it is a basic action and not a constant, meaning battle hoppers you play after you play evolve will not benefit from it like they will bucktooth. Honestly I think I'd probably rather have this card not give a permanent buff but either be cheaper, or preferably, give a bigger buff, but I suppose anything summoned after I play the evolve can be fodder for concubnny, necessary sacrifice, or the next card on my list.
RATING: 3/5

DanTheMeek
06-02-2013, 01:25 PM
4x Mushwocky, The (4 cost, 2 blood) 1/1 Constant Effect: As The Mushwocky enters play you may sac any number of shin'hare. The Mushwocky gets permanent +3/+3 for each shin'hare sacked this way.
- I don't like this guy. Seriously, I'm supposed to be smothering my opponent with my cute rabbits, not feeding them to a big mushroom guy. That said, its hard to ignore the fact that this guy can potentially be a win condition and just in general can turn other wise useless battle hoppers into something useful. Even if he only eats the battle hopper your Wretched Brood generated this turn, 4/4 for 4 isn't that bad, and when played in combination with Runts of the Litter he's a 10/10 for basically 6 and a card in hand. My biggest concern is that I don't have anything to give this guy flight or crush, so its going to be hard to actually get him through to connect for actual champion damage before he gets, say, murdered. Still, issues with the concept of eating my bunnies aside, I LOVE that flavor text.
RATING: 3/5

Disrupting Opponents Combos (4)

4x Murder (3 cost, 1 blood) Quick Action: Destroy Target Troop
- Speaking of murdering problem cards, I'm probably going to want to do that myself, so if I'm running blood anyway, why not splash some murder. There's not much else to say about this card, killing anything regardless of its stats, and being able to do it as a quick action no less, all for only 3 resources and a single blood, I expect its going to be hard to pass on this card in any deck that runs even a splash of blood in the first set meta.
RATING: 4/5

So that brings us to 36 cards, with resource requirement distributions:

8x 1 Blood
8x 2 Blood

16x 1 Wild
8x 2 Wild

So... maybe 14 wild resources, 10 blood resources?

That seems a little resource heavy for a deck with a card like ritualist in it and no card with cost over 4, but in one of the demos the shin'hare hero I believe generated a battle hopper for every 2 resources played, so its not like been resource flooded would be that bad of a thing while being resource screwed could absolutely be devastating making me want to error toward having more resources then I think I'll need then risk having less. Other cards of consideration or for my side board include:

Shin'hare Militia (1 cost, 1 wild) - 1/2 No Effect
- Nothing special, but better then just a 1/1 for 1 I guess, and benefits from all the shin'haire effects as well as being a cheap drop to combo with the draw and mass buff cards. If I really end up not liking the battle hopper generator cards I might have to replace one of them with these guys just for some extra shin'hare bodies.
RATING: 3/5

Blood Thrall (3 cost, 2 blood) Basic Action: When a troop you control deals damage to an opposing champion this turn, that champion chooses and discards a card.
- The idea here is that even if all I have out is six evolved 1/2 battle hoppers, if my opponent only has 2 blockers, 4 are going to deal battle damage to my opponent, and combined with this card, that 4 damage suddenly results in my opponent having no hand and stuck in top deck mode. I don't know, I need to not only have already generated a bunch of shin'hare, but buffed them so that they can actually do battle damage, so there's a good chance that in most games by the time I can actually play this, my opponent only has 1-2 cards left in his hand anyway kind of negating the point. Certainly worth of side consideration though, especially if decks that have large hands late into the game become popular in he meta.
RATING: 2/5

Wild Growth (1 cost, 1 wild) Quick Action: Target troop gets +4/+4 this turn.
- This can save ritualists and bucktooths from burn, as well as help out when going in for the kill, certainly worthy of consideration.
RATING: 4/5

Pact of Pain (2 cost, 2 blood) Constant Effect: (2 cost, pay 2 life): Draw a card
- This is a little dangerous to run in combination with wretched brood, and lets not ignore the fact that you basically have to spend 4 resource and 2 life just to break out even... but the potential to keep drawing as long as you have life and resource to spare after that is what makes this card hard to pass up on. If there is a card to give all shin'hare speed that just hasn't been revealed yet, that, plus this and ritualist, could create some truly scary OTK potential. As it stands, based on what we've seen to date, however, I think I like necessary sacrifice just a little bit more for a mass battle hopper deck. I do anticipate Pact seeing a lot of use else where in blood decks though, and who knows, maybe I'll end up using it here too.
Rating: 4/5

Eye of Creation (3 cost 3 wild) Basic Action: As an additional cost to play this action, pay [X]. Reveal the top X cards of your deck. You may play any revealed cards with cost X or less for free. If you play another Eye of Creation this way, it transforms into a copy of this action. Shuffle all cards not played into your deck.
- In a similar vein, this is yet another card that could really abuse ritualist of the litter's resource generation. For 7 total cost, I'd be able to reveal and play the top 4 cards of my deck pretty much guaranteed. I'm really tempted to try to find room for this card, but my main concern is just how consistently I'm going to find myself with the extra resources available to really abuse the card. There's only 4 ritualists of the litter in the deck, who are almost certainly going to have targets on their backs the moment they hit the field, and no other resource generators out side of the resources themselves. I'm generally not a big fan of cards that are almost completely dependent on me drawing a single other card in my deck to be useful...
RATING: 4/5

Okay that's just some of my initial thoughts on the deck, I'd love to hear your opinions on the deck or any of the cards I talked about!

Madican
06-02-2013, 01:29 PM
I don't really get how you can plan a deck out when we don't even know the vast majority of the set. All we've seen are fractions of the 300 set.

Fireblast
06-02-2013, 01:34 PM
4x Ritualist of the Spring Litter
Not sure why you'd need mana in a swarm deck.

4x Wretched Blood :
This is a good card; more 4/5 than 2/5

4x Mushwocky, The :
The goal is to pump the rabbits, not to eat them to lose on a Murder

~

Avaian
06-02-2013, 01:41 PM
I don't really get how you can plan a deck out when we don't even know the vast majority of the set. All we've seen are fractions of the 300 set.

Think of it as if you don't own any of the unrevealed cards, and can't afford to trade/buy for more.

From what I can tell you don't have anything for late game if they kill off your early bunnies. Eye of creation would be one.

Fireblast
06-02-2013, 01:46 PM
My belief is that shin'hare swarm will be a staple of set 1.
and the entry level deck for most PvPers (like goblins/merfolks are in MtG Legacy format).

People will play the full wild one already showcased by CZE, then as their collection grow they'll splash some blood.
Then the differences will be the amount of blood splashed, speed vs card advantage, explosive vs constant rabbits' flux...

It will not be the best deck, but one we'll see alot.

~

DanTheMeek
06-02-2013, 02:44 PM
First off, thanks for all the comments so far!


4x Ritualist of the Spring Litter
Not sure why you'd need mana in a swarm deck.

Care to elaborate? What about swarm makes having lots of mana less useful? I guess you could argue its not a key card of the deck, cause its really not, the curve is 4 two cost, 20 three cost, and 12 four cost, but it is one of the best benefits you get for swarming the, on their own, fairly useless battle hoppers, and she benefits from all the other shin'hare buff cards as well, dont' really see the harm in running the card, at least based on the other options currently available working on a less then full card list.



4x Wretched Blood :
This is a good card; more 4/5 than 2/5


Like seriously, forget my first request for elaboration, this one I REALLY would LOVE elaboration on. I already posted my opinion at length but to summarize again, this card is expensive and soooo sloooooooow. I can live with the fact that the life cost is not optional and thus could ultimately burn you to death, but the payoff for the risk and costs just doesn't seem worth it.



4x Mushwocky, The :
The goal is to pump the rabbits, not to eat them to lose on a Murder

~

When working up this deck this guy kept coming and going from the deck for just those exact reasons, still really undecided on if he'll be more of a distruption to the deck then a boon, and if they reveal more cards that allow me to execute mass buffs to my shin'hare, he'll probably leave in lieu of them, but I ultimately included him for lack of something better and because he gets good a lot faster then most of the other shin'hare combos which all require a TON of battle hoppers to be menacing (this guys an intimidating 7/7 for only 2 battle hopper). Again, we'll see if he stays as more shin'hare are revealed.

KaosSoul
06-02-2013, 02:56 PM
Soul Siphon with That Spring litter?

Fireblast
06-02-2013, 03:08 PM
Well, maybe I got your deck idea wrongly but.

What a shin'hare battle hoppers / Evolve / Commander wants to do is to put an endless swarm of creature on the board and to boost them to either trade vs aggro decks or to kill swiftly vs other decks.

Wretched blood is an endless stream of rabbits at the expense of life (something you don't care about since you're the one trying to kill your opponent)

4x Ritualist of the Spring Litter and 4x Mushwocky don't follow your swarm gameplan.

You don't need resource, you'll be out of cards by turn 5 or so, you need ways to refill your hand and have a constant stream of rabbits popping.

~

NaryaDL0re
06-02-2013, 03:12 PM
I think you highly undervalue Wretched Brood.
If you havent played a lot of magic this might be a hard reference,
but if you have, remember "bitterblossom".

Wretched Brood is one of the cards in set 1 that have the highest "being broken" potentials.
It costs 1 more and the creatures dont have flying. But bitterblossom also is banned in formats for a reason.

Avaian
06-02-2013, 03:22 PM
Mushwocky is good to have you don't need 4 but 1-2 of them would give you something to do with the 0/1 Battle Hoppers you don't have a way to boost due to late game, counters or some other reason.

Tyrfang
06-02-2013, 03:23 PM
Vampire King hard counters Mushwocky. :)

Gregzilla
06-02-2013, 03:24 PM
Murder counters Vamp King.

LargoLaGrande
06-02-2013, 03:25 PM
Care to elaborate? What about swarm makes having lots of mana less useful? I guess you could argue its not a key card of the deck, cause its really not, the curve is 4 two cost, 20 three cost, and 12 four cost, but it is one of the best benefits you get for swarming the, on their own, fairly useless battle hoppers, and she benefits from all the other shin'hare buff cards as well, dont' really see the harm in running the card, at least based on the other options currently available working on a less then full card list.


The main problem is the ritualist is a 4 mana 1/1 with a gigantic target on her head. She needs to survive until your next turn with other bunnies in play to do anything and then what are you using the mana for? Lets say you have 4 bunnies in play, you have a total of 8 mana on your turn 5. But if you play 8 mana of guys this turn why not just play 4 mana last turn, and 4 mana this turn. The difference is you have one less 1/1, but the guys you played last turn are able to do things that impact the game. Maybe you're using her to ramp to something large, the problem there is that can happen exactly once, and then your opponent will kill her on sight every time and strand your 8 or 9 drop in your hand.



Like seriously, forget my first request for elaboration, this one I REALLY would LOVE elaboration on. I already posted my opinion at length but to summarize again, this card is expensive and soooo sloooooooow. I can live with the fact that the life cost is not optional and thus could ultimately burn you to death, but the payoff for the risk and costs just doesn't seem worth it.



I somewhat agree with you here, it will depend on what we get to turn Battle Hoppers into useful creatures, but right now it doesn't seem worth it. The obvious comparison is Bitterblossom from MTG. Bitterblossom is amazing, and banned in Modern for a very good reason. The difference is Bitterblossom makes 1/1 flyers which win you the game. This cannot without support. However, it does dodge Extinction, give you fodder for Necessary Sacrifice and the Mushwocky, and gains you life in the form of chump blocking large Orcs. It may be good enough to play but I think there will need to be more ways to abuse battle hoppers than I've seen so far.




When working up this deck this guy kept coming and going from the deck for just those exact reasons, still really undecided on if he'll be more of a distruption to the deck then a boon, and if they reveal more cards that allow me to execute mass buffs to my shin'hare, he'll probably leave in lieu of them, but I ultimately included him for lack of something better and because he gets good a lot faster then most of the other shin'hare combos which all require a TON of battle hoppers to be menacing (this guys an intimidating 7/7 for only 2 battle hopper). Again, we'll see if he stays as more shin'hare are revealed.

I think he's great. He's actually fantastic even if you have no Shin'Hare because you can play him with the champion that makes battle hoppers for 2 charge, so he's always at least a 4/4 for 4. He actually might be worse in a Shin'Hare tribal deck because you'll have other uses for your battle hoppers, but again we'll have to see.

Wombat
06-02-2013, 03:36 PM
How about adding the roostersaurus? When understanding correctly he gets +1/+1 for each creature you exhaust, and he has Crush. So you can exhaust a bunch of your 0/1 and due to the crush you avoid the problem you have with the Mushwocky.

(It also could be that the exhausted creature gets the +1/+1 then he is trash tho.)

Tyrfang
06-02-2013, 03:37 PM
Murder counters Vamp King.

Murder also counters Mushwocky.

Avaian
06-02-2013, 03:48 PM
Soul Armaments counters Murder

alpha5099
06-02-2013, 05:12 PM
Huh, I'd misread Ritualist as well. I thought it was saying the Ritualist got +1 ATK for each Shin'hare you controlled, but looking through the other cards, effects that change ATK or DEF are followed by their icons, and resources seem to be in those bracketed [x/x]. So, I guess it gives us a ton of temporary resources.

Fateanomaly
06-02-2013, 06:23 PM
At this stage, almost everybody shin'hare deck will be about the same. For me, i would not use the mushwocky because it is not a shin'hare. I will be trying the ritualist to see if it fits and add life siphon to take advantage of the resource and to counter balance the wretched brood.

funktion
06-02-2013, 06:33 PM
-Ritualist doesn't belong in the deck at all. It does literally nothing for you, hypothetically on turn 5 it's going to give you an extra... 4 resources maybe if things have gone well for you so far. At that point you've at least got 4 resources in play, and the top of your curve is already 4... so what do you even spend the resources on that you wouldn't be able to otherwise?
-Mushwocky is straight up bad in most cases, maybe there's a couple corner cases where you want it. For me that puts it into a 1-of copy rather than 4.

Honestly if you're trying to make the deck, don't include bad cards for the sake of getting to 60 cards. Put in the ones you know belong and just leave the open slots blank until they reveal more.

DanTheMeek
06-02-2013, 07:19 PM
Okay, so let say I remove the RotL and the Mushwocky, what (based on what we know of at this time) would you advise replacing them with? With out the RotLs resource generation to power them, eye of creation is definitely out of the question. I still feel like blood thrall is probably going to be a better side board card then a main deck card, so that leaves wild growth, militia, and pact of pain. With so many low cost cards (the only cost 4 or higher card left is the four copies of necessary sacrifice), the need for 24 resources also seems considerably less. Maybe reduce resource count to 22, and put in 2 pact of pain, 4 wild growth, and 4 militia?

Thanks again for all the thoughts and suggestions, definitely great food for thought that will help me in understanding what the deck needs even after all the cards are revealed, till then I'm still enjoying trying to keep it at 60 as it helps stimulate thought for finding the best cards available even if they weren't necessarily meant to be used together (something really useful for drafting) and besides that, I'd hate to leave the slots open because I'm assuming better cards just haven't been revealed only to find out later those better cards do not actually exist in the full set.

Avaian
06-02-2013, 07:44 PM
I wouldn't remove Mushwocky, just reduce it to 1 maybe 2 copies.

Using current revealed cards, if you need to fill some spots you may think about Shrine of Prosperity or even Sapper's Charge.

Edit: Also 22 resources seems like alot even with using Wild/Blood. Also removed RotSL was thinking of Eye of creation.

LargoLaGrande
06-02-2013, 08:01 PM
Other than Mushwocky, RotL is the least likely to help you recover from an Extinction. The problem with Extinction isn't just that your board has been wiped, its that you also have like 2 cards left in your hand after it, RotL does nothing to help with that.

Shrine of Prosperity, however, seems very good in a Shin'Hare deck. It makes every resource you play give you another battle hopper (off your charge power), and effectively acts as Bucktooth Commander #5-8 for your non-battle hoppers.

Avaian
06-02-2013, 08:07 PM
sorry I was thinking of a different card... my bad

DanTheMeek
06-02-2013, 08:09 PM
I wouldn't remove RotL and Mushwocky, just reduce it to 1 maybe 2 copies, RotL can help regain control after an extinction (which will be one of the counters to a swarm deck).

Using current revealed cards, if you need to fill some spots you may think about Shrine of Prosperity or even Sapper's Charge.

Edit: Also 22 resources seems like alot even with using Wild/Blood.

Hmm SoP does seem pretty solid and fits into the low cost curve nicely, though the +1/+1 buff might be a little wasted if it hits a concubunny. Zappers Charge strikes me more of something I might side board then main deck but not a bad suggestion either. What is your thought on Pact of Pain? Is 2 enough, too many, too few? Once you get one out, any additional are useless for anything but replacement if your opponent eliminates the first with constant hate... but having more chances to draw a powerful draw engine in a deck that can blow through its hand really quickly is tempting. It's worth noting that as things stand every concubunny in play is going to be costing me a resource every turn to actually use her ability, and if I'm using the shin'hare champion who gets a battle hopper for every two charges and SoP which turns every resource into a "double charge your hero" as far as I'm reading it, I still kind of feel like I'd rather error on the side of too much resource then too few but I'm certainly willing to change my mind. Still as undecided on mushwocky as ever, I guess I could run a single copy but I dont' know, still seems like a card is either worth running or not worth running, running a single copy seems indecisive and poor deck design. If there are certain decks he'd be good against, then I'd be better suited to side board him then splash a single copy. But for mushwocky, like a number of these cards, I wont' be able to form a better opinion on him until I've had the opportunity to thoroughly test a deck with him in it against the other decks of set 1.

I don't know how RotL really helps after an exctinction? There's nothing in play, so nothing for her to generate resource off of, really seems to me that she's a card I'd want to run 4 of, or none at all.

Edit: Seems some one else already beat me to it and you already explained before I finished my long rant post, serves me right for rambling.

Kalius
06-02-2013, 08:15 PM
Running a singleton of a card is in no way "poor deck design". in MtG, pro-tournament winning decks often run a singleton or two in their deck.

Avaian
06-02-2013, 08:30 PM
I like Pact of Pain for Shin'hare decks, with so many battle hoppers you can afford to sacrifice a couple to block creatures reducing the overall amount of damage you will be taking from your opponent. Also drawing more cards is almost always good.

If you like a lot of resources, replace a source or two with RotSL could help pay for the extra costs.

LargoLaGrande
06-02-2013, 08:32 PM
Running a singleton of a card is in no way "poor deck design". in MtG, pro-tournament winning decks often run a singleton or two in their deck.

It's only not bad deck design if you have a good reason to run one though. Singletons are run in decks because they're very specific answers and you have ways to fetch them, or because testing has shown that your deck really wants to run 5 Murder, so you run a single Burn as a 5th copy, or its a sideboard card that wrecks a certain deck and is not terrible against most other decks so you run 1 main and more in the side. Running 1 ofs without actually getting to test the deck is almost never a good idea.

DanTheMeek
06-02-2013, 08:42 PM
It's only not bad deck design if you have a good reason to run one though. Singletons are run in decks because they're very specific answers and you have ways to fetch them, or because testing has shown that your deck really wants to run 5 Murder, so you run a single Burn as a 5th copy, or its a sideboard card that wrecks a certain deck and is not terrible against most other decks so you run 1 main and more in the side. Running 1 ofs without actually getting to test the deck is almost never a good idea.

This, this exactly. That said, I do apologize if I offended anyone who suggested I run a single copy with that comment, I understand that there are many varied and valid deck design philosophies and that's a large part of why I created this topic in the first place, to hear suggestions I might have other wise never considered do to my own bias or misconceptions about the way things should work.

Tyrfang
06-02-2013, 08:42 PM
I feel like you have no real win condition besides evolve/bucktooth/mushwocky + horde.

Why not add a few Life Siphons to work do something with that Ritualist?

Also, Succulent Roostasaur works well with bunny horde and Pact of Pain. It gives you a response in case the enemy decides to wipe the board.

DanTheMeek
06-02-2013, 08:48 PM
I feel like you have no real win condition besides evolve + horde and Mushwocky.

Why not add a few Life Siphons to work do something with that Ritualist*?

At the moment I've been persuaded to remove the RotL as I fear I may have over valued it just because I love the art, but that said, life siphon does seem like it would work extremely well with RotL, even more so when you take wretched brood and pact of pain into account as that life gain could actually be quite meaningful so this is definitely something I shall consider as well. So many possible directions to take this deck already even with so few card revealed, I'm crazy hyped to start different builds of this deck ingame, beta (or alpha if shin'hare are one of the decks they'll let us use) can't get here fast enough!

Erebus
06-02-2013, 08:55 PM
I know how you feel Dan. I've already designed a PVE Artifact/Dwarf deck complete with the gear I want, and it looks really good (in concept) or at the very least, very fun to play.

Tyrfang
06-02-2013, 08:56 PM
I find it funny, lore wise, that you can have two concubunnies mate and pop out a new battle hopper...

LargoLaGrande
06-02-2013, 08:58 PM
I find it funny, lore wise, that you can have two concubunnies mate and pop out a new battle hopper...

The power of their magic knows no bounds.

TheDiv
06-02-2013, 08:59 PM
I know how you feel Dan. I've already designed a PVE Artifact/Dwarf deck complete with the gear I want, and it looks really good (in concept) or at the very least, very fun to play.

Keen on sharing? ;)

Gregzilla
06-02-2013, 09:30 PM
I get new deck ideas every day that I can't wait to implement. Just today, in fact, I decided on eventually making a mono Sapphire control deck with Sabotage/Chronic Madness for some mill death and Kraken in late game. :)

funktion
06-02-2013, 11:24 PM
Okay, so let say I remove the RotL and the Mushwocky, what (based on what we know of at this time) would you advise replacing them with?

Honestly... nothing. That's kinda the point, there's still a ton left to be spoiled.

Also, I'd say you need to determine what angle your deck is attacking from. Ritualist is great with eye of creation (not sure if that's the right name), if you want to keep ritualist then I'd say drop mushwocky entirely and add eye + perhaps siphon.

Cut necessary sacrifice while you're at it. The goal is to overwhelm the opponent, have more creatures attacking per turn than they can continue to block. Losing board pressence is the exact opposite of what you want to be doing.

I'd say right now you have about 10-14 slots in the deck that still need to be filled, and that the cards to fill those slots haven't been spoiled yet.

I suppose the question is, are you aiming for a "white weenie" or in this case shin'hare swarm style deck or are you aiming for a mana ramp into eye of creation deck. Pick one and focus on that, once you've been able to playtest one version which is solely focused on that goal, you might discover that you can eek out a few % points by doing both.

jaxsonbateman
06-02-2013, 11:29 PM
Just to reiterate, need to see pretty much the whole set, or at least 90%+, to start seeing what kinds of decks are probably going to make the top tier or two. In regards to the Shin'hare, or any very troop reliant deck, cards like Extinction, Judgement and General's Tent have the potential to pretty much stop you cold (General's Tent is very mana intensive and slow, but has the upside of being available for any deck to use).

Of course, in Magic, the most similar game, many creature based decks still manage to make high tiers even though there's always a board-sweeper equivalent in every format. However, those decks tend to have a lot of card advantage and ways to refill their gas (like big card draw spells), or are fast enough that they'll get you to a critical level of health before you fire off your sweeper.

At this early stage, the best aggressive creatures I've seen are Blood Harbinger (2 cost, 3/1, when it dies your opponent either pays 5 life or you get to search for another Harbinger - which is insanely good and also hurts sweepers), and Thunderbird (2 cost, 1/1 rage and flight - very cheap for an evasive creature that swings on curve, and then grows and grows). As a synergetic tribe Shin'hare might have potential, depending on other cards spoiled, but from what we've seen thus far they're not even close to the level of elves, goblins and merfolk in MTG. I'd say at this point, orcs (speed + rage) and humans (inspire) are the better tribes.

Pogny
06-02-2013, 11:55 PM
It's a deck that really interest me, but having a swarm of 0/1 with 4 creature which potentially become dangereous after killing your own troop....

I used to played green mana generator/elf on magic and can remember how red magic deck could clean creature with 1 damage to all creature or 2 damage for 1 red mana

and in HEX ruby deck seem to be aggressive, to get a wild swarm deck viable, we need a card giving crush on all creature for a turn or +2/+2 for all creature to a turn too.

Atm, I prefer getting 4 raptor pack than a bunch of 0/1 useless bunnies, but wait, we dont know what the game reserved as we ignored all the cards in.

But I like fast deck and for sure I will play a wild/blood

alpha5099
06-04-2013, 09:49 PM
I think the wild/blood shin'hare deck they used in the latest stream offered a good look at much more of what the shin'hare are capable of. Personally, I think I'm much more interested in the blood side of the race now, the sacrifice mechanics of the blood shin'hare cards we've seen so far seem much more appealing to me than the mono-wild weenie swarm approach we'd seen in the earlier shin'hare preview deck. The preview game really highlighted the potential of cards like the Shin'hare Eulogist and the Shin'hare Ritualist (I believe those were their names), which obviously also plays into the mechanics we've seen already on the Mushwocky.