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theradol
06-02-2013, 04:07 PM
Discuss this with me.

They've now said raid leader is the where the best pve stuff will drop.

The difficulty, if on par with onyxia and other wow tcg raids, should be pretty serious. One would expect that the first people to be able to farm a raid will be with the raid leader buff.

Raid leaders should have a higher success rate with raids, and if it takes 30 minutes or an hour per attempt, if the raid leader buff doubles your win percentage, it would be as effective as dc for time vs value.

One of the reasons dc looks so appealing is that I can play alone and avoid have to look for a group, however, Looking for a group should be a non-issue for a raid leader. (on the other hand, people may want to group up with any king + backer as they should have the best decks anyway)

if this were a traditional mmo im pretty this would be the best perk, but even in this game it seems to have alot of advantages.

Looking at it from a more tcg point of view, if dungeons only gave commons/uncommons and raids gave rares/mythics, its pretty easy to see where double dungeon drops wouldn't be as good as more rares/mythics.

Madican
06-02-2013, 04:18 PM
Not really. +1 card in the opening hand is a slight advantage, but nothing to really write home about.

RobHaven
06-02-2013, 04:19 PM
And Raid Leader's blessing - 1 life every turn from turn 1, and it can be sac'd to prevent all damage (one time).

Sci3nce
06-02-2013, 04:21 PM
PvE Doesn't matter as much to most of the big money spenders. Spending $250 for a part of the game that is 100% free doesn't really peak my intrests.

On top of that DC tier gives you double the loot from the boss so each kill is like killing it twice. I'm assuming the "big" money spending PvE'ers are going for DC rather than RL or GM.

Erebus
06-02-2013, 04:25 PM
Nowhere does it say that DC get +100% loot against Raid Bosses

Sci3nce
06-02-2013, 04:26 PM
Nowhere does it say that DC get +100% loot against Raid Bosses

If you're right, then DC is extremely fail as well.

*EDIT* that being said, Raid is the end game and have 100% bonus loot in Dungeons only for life just doesn't make sense. I'm sure it's just an oversight in the wording.

Gwaer
06-02-2013, 04:31 PM
If you're right, then DC is extremely fail as well.

*EDIT* that being said, Raid is the end game and have 100% bonus loot in Dungeons only for life just doesn't make sense. I'm sure it's just an oversight in the wording.

It isn't an oversight, someone asked crypto and they responded about it, DC doesn't double raid loot, and Raid leader doesn't apply in dungeons.

SixSevenSix
06-02-2013, 04:36 PM
The most serious PvEs raiders would probably end up joining the tournaments runs mostly, but the bonus says it's only for "non-tournaments."

It would be like if the free boosters from the Pro Player drafts said "*unable to use cards gained in free drafts in tournaments"

Sci3nce
06-02-2013, 04:36 PM
It isn't an oversight, someone asked crypto and they responded about it, DC doesn't double raid loot, and Raid leader doesn't apply in dungeons.

Good to know. I hope others are aware as that significantly lowers the value of DC in my eyes.

Tyrfang
06-02-2013, 04:37 PM
It does seem odd, since they say raids often unlock from dungeon encounters

Lazybum
06-02-2013, 04:41 PM
+1 in opening hand from raid leader really isnt worth much the raid leaders blessing card is prob worth 10x what the extra card in your opening hand is, tho i wonder if you have to draw the card and play it like normal or if it starts in play. double loot from DC from dungeons is still worth alot more then the raid leader tier in my eyes

Stig
06-02-2013, 04:47 PM
The card starts in play, so it is a great bonus. I think the tier is definitely worth it if you're someone that wants to spend a lot of time raiding.

theradol
06-02-2013, 04:53 PM
the raid leaders blessing should be huge if your gonna be raiding and raids are alot like the wow tcg.

I wouldnt be surprised if they have random instances of bosses doing 20 damage to a target hero.

theradol
06-02-2013, 04:54 PM
PvE Doesn't matter as much to most of the big money spenders. Spending $250 for a part of the game that is 100% free doesn't really peak my intrests.

On top of that DC tier gives you double the loot from the boss so each kill is like killing it twice. I'm assuming the "big" money spending PvE'ers are going for DC rather than RL or GM.

You haven't played this game, how do u know what the big money spenders will spend.

1000$ for a spectral tiger mount in wow says pve can be important.

theradol
06-02-2013, 04:55 PM
The most serious PvEs raiders would probably end up joining the tournaments runs mostly, but the bonus says it's only for "non-tournaments."

It would be like if the free boosters from the Pro Player drafts said "*unable to use cards gained in free drafts in tournaments"

no, because they can still use the pve cards and pve gear they get from the raid leader perk in those tournaments. even if they can't use the perk itself.

If it's actually challenging to kill raid bosses, that could be a big advantage.

RobHaven
06-02-2013, 05:13 PM
In terms of Magic, I've seen some extremely powerful deck concepts that - when going - are unstoppable, but they can be killed with speed. 1 life per turn could be the key to making those slower decks viable.

SixSevenSix
06-02-2013, 05:20 PM
no, because they can still use the pve cards and pve gear they get from the raid leader perk in those tournaments. even if they can't use the perk itself.

If it's actually challenging to kill raid bosses, that could be a big advantage.

Hmmm... looking back, I kinda used a bad analogy there. I just wanted to point out how the bonus from Raid Leader doesn't give a direct advantage to tournament-PvE play, even though, as you pointed out, there are some indirect advantages it gives. This might probably be why the Raid Leader is currently undervalued.

theradol
06-02-2013, 05:32 PM
Hmmm... looking back, I kinda used a bad analogy there. I just wanted to point out how the bonus from Raid Leader doesn't give a direct advantage to tournament-PvE play, even though, as you pointed out, there are some indirect advantages it gives. This might probably be why the Raid Leader is currently undervalued.

Well, my experience with the raiding in the WOW tcg tells me that, if crypt wants to make a raid boss on a difficulty equal to mmo raid bosses- aka you can fail on them for hours. I think they can.

Interestingly, I just remembered that when the wow tcg came out. At the release, i believe the first team to beat onyxia was made of 3 paladins. Their flip ability was the same ability as the raid leaders buff im pretty sure.

theradol
06-02-2013, 07:02 PM
come on and talk me down. Im thinking of switching from dc to RL.

TheDiv
06-02-2013, 07:15 PM
come on and talk me down. Im thinking of switching from dc to RL.

Equipment and cards from the dungeons may be the key to beating some of the raids. Surely you want a great opportunity at getting that loot from dungeons to help you with raiding! Heck, that dungeon loot may be more useful for raiding than the raid leaders perks... (speculation)

theradol
06-02-2013, 07:16 PM
Equipment and cards from the dungeons may be the key to beating some of the raids. Surely you want a great opportunity at getting that loot from dungeons to help you with raiding! Heck, that dungeon loot may be more useful for raiding than the raid leaders perks... (speculation)

thats definitely true and its what keeps me from doing it so far.

Stig
06-02-2013, 08:31 PM
I'd consider how often you actually see yourself raiding. It will be a time commitment, and something you'll likely want to do with friends/guild mates, rather than random people. How often will you find time for you and 2 friends to raid? If you think it won't be an issue, and you want to spend more time in raids than dungeons, I'd say go for it. I think that +1 health/turn is going to be incredibly strong. Looking through all the cards shown at this time, how many might offer you a similar boost? While it's true the dungeon loot will be important for raiding, you'll be able to go in to those encounters sooner with the RL buffs simply by virtue of being able to guarantee that extra health every turn, or blocking a killing blow when you're a turn or two from victory.

theradol
06-02-2013, 08:41 PM
I'd consider how often you actually see yourself raiding. It will be a time commitment, and something you'll likely want to do with friends/guild mates, rather than random people. How often will you find time for you and 2 friends to raid? If you think it won't be an issue, and you want to spend more time in raids than dungeons, I'd say go for it. I think that +1 health/turn is going to be incredibly strong. Looking through all the cards shown at this time, how many might offer you a similar boost? While it's true the dungeon loot will be important for raiding, you'll be able to go in to those encounters sooner with the RL buffs simply by virtue of being able to guarantee that extra health every turn, or blocking a killing blow when you're a turn or two from victory.

what were discussing though, is opportunity cost. dungeon crawler is worth 1 hour of dungeoning for every hour you dungeon.
you know, doubles the effectiveness of time spent (except for exp?)

Finding a group and completing a raid might be sped up by a larger amount than double. and if raids give better loot then dungeons as they say they do, you could end up with raid leader giving you a much better time-loot increase.

Tyrfang
06-02-2013, 08:59 PM
I do not believe that raid leader works against player-made raid decks (keep defense), either. =(

Qorsair
06-02-2013, 10:42 PM
This question actually came up in IRC and we submitted it to CZE.
I promised to make a thread with the response.
Basically we came to the agreement that if there is no other way in-game to get a buff similar to Raid Leaders Blessing, that the Raid Leader tier may be significantly undervalued. The question is if the buff stacks with other buffs you may have going into the raid or if you acquire buffs through PVE and choose one to start the raid with. If it's the latter, then no big deal. However, if it stacks with other buffs you may have acquired, it's a massive buff for raiders, potentially to the point of being "required."

jaxsonbateman
06-02-2013, 11:17 PM
As I said in another thread, a single raid leader in a raid will be useful, for the constant they get to start with in play, and the +1 card in opening hand. Two or three raid leaders in a party will be unnecessary, as 2 or 3 extra cards in your opening hand just means that you'll have a bit more filtering and choice with your first turn decisions, unless you have some free-cast cards like Princess Victoria. It's not quite as good as genuine card advantage, so it's definitely something you can live without.

Essentially, raid leader can be a good choice for you if you want that desirability of offering the buff, as raids will ideally want at least one raid leader in their group. If you can live without that, you'll still be fine for raiding - you'll just want to find someone else to join you that offers the buff. Even without the buff you should be fine (though the raid will obviously be more difficult); there's no way they're balancing raids around having it.

Basically, if you have two players with equal skill and deck strength, and one's a raid leader, you'd take them. But if you have one player with more skill or a better deck, or a raid leader with less skill or a worse deck, you're probably going to take the better player, unless the encounter is perfectly suited for the constant card they offer.

Out of the current 250 sets still available, I'd say DC = Collector > RL > GL. Again, RL is great if you want that extra bit of bait to get people to invite you to groups, but you then miss out on the huge DC bonuses if you're dungeon exploring. If RL offered some additional loot from raids or something like that, it would probably shoot up to top spot though.

theradol
06-02-2013, 11:32 PM
This question actually came up in IRC and we submitted it to CZE.
I promised to make a thread with the response.
Basically we came to the agreement that if there is no other way in-game to get a buff similar to Raid Leaders Blessing, that the Raid Leader tier may be significantly undervalued. The question is if the buff stacks with other buffs you may have going into the raid or if you acquire buffs through PVE and choose one to start the raid with. If it's the latter, then no big deal. However, if it stacks with other buffs you may have acquired, it's a massive buff for raiders, potentially to the point of being "required."

yeah, potentially required. thats what I'm seeing.

please do make that thread. If there are other equal pve buffs u can start a raid with then the raid leader benefit would be mostly useless as a lifetime benefit.

I'm currently thinking of going from dc to raid leader. The more I think about this game and read about it, the more I think that raids may actually be the centerpiece.

AstaSyneri
06-03-2013, 01:23 AM
I am certainly looking forward to raids - that's why I was looking for a PvE guild (luckily I found one that really suits my tastes in TUC - The Unnamed Council). There are already at least 14 Raid Leaders, so chances are good I'll team with one of them.

Which in turn made me invest in the Dungeon Crawler tier - maybe I can pay back the non-GK Raid Leaders by forking over the odd piece of equipment.

What imho makes the Raid Leader less attractive is that it mostly benefits others, as opposed to your own greedy little self, much like the Guild Leader Tier. If you already have a group of friends, it's a good tier, but if you are still looking, most people tend to take something that will benefit them more directly.

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 01:28 AM
Not really. +1 card in the opening hand is a slight advantage, but nothing to really write home about.

It is a major atv and everyone in the party gets it.

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 01:30 AM
As I said in another thread, a single raid leader in a raid will be useful, for the constant they get to start with in play, and the +1 card in opening hand. Two or three raid leaders in a party will be unnecessary, as 2 or 3 extra cards in your opening hand just means that you'll have a bit more filtering and choice with your first turn decisions, unless you have some free-cast cards like Princess Victoria. It's not quite as good as genuine card advantage, so it's definitely something you can live without.

Essentially, raid leader can be a good choice for you if you want that desirability of offering the buff, as raids will ideally want at least one raid leader in their group. If you can live without that, you'll still be fine for raiding - you'll just want to find someone else to join you that offers the buff. Even without the buff you should be fine (though the raid will obviously be more difficult); there's no way they're balancing raids around having it.

Basically, if you have two players with equal skill and deck strength, and one's a raid leader, you'd take them. But if you have one player with more skill or a better deck, or a raid leader with less skill or a worse deck, you're probably going to take the better player, unless the encounter is perfectly suited for the constant card they offer.

Out of the current 250 sets still available, I'd say DC = Collector > RL > GL. Again, RL is great if you want that extra bit of bait to get people to invite you to groups, but you then miss out on the huge DC bonuses if you're dungeon exploring. If RL offered some additional loot from raids or something like that, it would probably shoot up to top spot though.

Have you played magic? if you can stack 3+ extra cards that is just ridiculous
1) Have MUCH greater chances to get your combo.
2) Can pitch your bomb creatures for free and then reanimate them, depending on what cards available.

jaxsonbateman
06-03-2013, 01:38 AM
Have you played magic? if you can stack 3+ extra cards that is just ridiculous
1) Have MUCH greater chances to get your combo.
2) Can pitch your bomb creatures for free and then reanimate them, depending on what cards available.
Of course I've played much Magic. It's good - not ridiculous. In terms of an affect, 3 raid leaders (as opposed to one) gives you a one time use of Faithless Looting, as opposed to Divination in all but the most extreme case where you happen to be able to play a few 0 cost cards on your first turn.

1) If you've built your combo deck right, you should still have a strong chance of assembling it within the first few turns. Good combo decks in Magic still go off without the need to include Serum Powder. Some still do, of course, but it's not necessary.
2) You can do that with a single raid leader. ;-)

I'm not saying raid leader is bad. I'm saying that because the advantage of a second and third raid leader will probably pale in comparison to the deck quality and skill of the players when assessing group composition for a raid encounter, DC will probably be a better choice for most players than RL, unless you really want that 'desirability' factor of people looking for groups. Essentially, as has been stated before - if two players have equal skill and deck quality, you'll probably take the raid leader if the other isn't. But if one player has a better deck and more skill, and the other is a raid leader, you'll probably take the player with the better deck and more skill.

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 02:37 AM
Of course I've played much Magic. It's good - not ridiculous. In terms of an affect, 3 raid leaders (as opposed to one) gives you a one time use of Faithless Looting, as opposed to Divination in all but the most extreme case where you happen to be able to play a few 0 cost cards on your first turn.

1) If you've built your combo deck right, you should still have a strong chance of assembling it within the first few turns. Good combo decks in Magic still go off without the need to include Serum Powder. Some still do, of course, but it's not necessary.
2) You can do that with a single raid leader. ;-)

I'm not saying raid leader is bad. I'm saying that because the advantage of a second and third raid leader will probably pale in comparison to the deck quality and skill of the players when assessing group composition for a raid encounter, DC will probably be a better choice for most players than RL, unless you really want that 'desirability' factor of people looking for groups. Essentially, as has been stated before - if two players have equal skill and deck quality, you'll probably take the raid leader if the other isn't. But if one player has a better deck and more skill, and the other is a raid leader, you'll probably take the player with the better deck and more skill.

+3 cards is ridiculous bro, I don't know what planet you play magic on.
Even if they have to pitch, having those options is way better then not. Its more like everyone gets a free sift.

Zomnivore
06-03-2013, 03:39 AM
only about a thousand players atm have the effect, if this game gets popular at all you'll have a tough time finding a raid leader.

if raid leaders group up, it'll prob be for the newest toughest raids.

AstaSyneri
06-06-2013, 06:27 AM
only about a thousand players atm have the effect, if this game gets popular at all you'll have a tough time finding a raid leader.

if raid leaders group up, it'll prob be for the newest toughest raids.

That's what you join a PvE guild for. At last count I had a choice of 14 of them in our guild (most being GKs, of course). Or 15 - there was a Dragon Lord who joined, don't remember.

Is it confirmed that with 3 RLs you get +3 cards? I know the Blessing doesn't stack, but does the card bonus?

keldrin
06-09-2013, 09:26 PM
That's what you join a PvE guild for. At last count I had a choice of 14 of them in our guild (most being GKs, of course). Or 15 - there was a Dragon Lord who joined, don't remember.

Is it confirmed that with 3 RLs you get +3 cards? I know the Blessing doesn't stack, but does the card bonus?
Yes, it's confirmed, the card bonus stacks.
And, I would imagine, raid leaders, that have the opportunity to group with other raid leaders on a semi regular basis, will likely construct one or more decks, that are designed to take advantage of the extra cards at the start.

keldrin
06-09-2013, 09:30 PM
What imho makes the Raid Leader less attractive is that it mostly benefits others, as opposed to your own greedy little self, much like the Guild Leader Tier. If you already have a group of friends, it's a good tier, but if you are still looking, most people tend to take something that will benefit them more directly.
Well, it does directly benefit you, in that you defeat the raid. It just benefits everyone in the Raid equally. Plus, the other guys without raid leader, have to search for raid leaders to group with. As a raid leader, you get the bonus every time you raid. Not to mention, is it a bad thing that everyone suddenly wants to be your friend?

XagoTrunk
06-09-2013, 09:57 PM
heheh, 10 cards in opening hand = maximum swag. Thank god I got my RLs before the kickstarter ended. I think it's been seriously undervalued so far...we shall see

mudkip
06-09-2013, 10:02 PM
if it takes 30 minutes or an hour per attempt

If it takes this long and then you lose, I doubt one extra draw would have been the difference. I think building a better deck would have had a much greater impact on the result.

Khazrakh
06-09-2013, 10:16 PM
If it takes this long and then you lose, I doubt one extra draw would have been the difference. I think building a better deck would have had a much greater impact on the result.

My thoughts exactly. Raids will be balanced around everybody starting with 7 cards in their hand. Winning or losing will almost never come down to that one extra card you had in your starting hand. It's about building the right deck for the encounter.
I'd even go one step further and state that you shouldn't be raiding in the first place if you need to pay money to beat an encounter.

keldrin
06-09-2013, 10:54 PM
If it takes this long and then you lose, I doubt one extra draw would have been the difference. I think building a better deck would have had a much greater impact on the result.
Well, I honestly think good deck building is a major part of the fun of the game. So, getting a good raid deck is a given. The idea of random people in raid with not so great decks MIGHT be overcome with the raid leader perk. The extra card is nice. The raid leaders blessing, I'm guessing, will be the more important benefit.
A good group of players to raid with, is probably the most important. I started with the line of thought that raid leader wasn't going to be important. Right at the end, though, I started thinking, but what if it is. And what if finding people with the perk to raid with, is difficult to impossible. There where around 150 raid leader tiers sold. There may be more once all the paypal upgrades are done. Or, there may be less, after all the people who's cards bounced, are unable to follow through with their pledge. Might even balance out between the 2.
So, from a supply and demand standpoint, the supply is relatively low. The demand remains to be seen. I'm sure it will be a decent benefit. Just not sure it's a benefit worth $250 (or $130 since I would have gotten a king instead)

Arbiter
06-09-2013, 10:55 PM
Also worth noting you are comparing the RL to a player starting with nothing bar the deck. Raiding is likely to be a max level ability. We don't know yet what the max level champions are going to be like but I bet their bonuses will dwarf the raid leaders. It'll be nice, I am happy to have it but it won't be game-breaking. If the decks aren't designed well, the bonus won't matter.

lucedes
06-09-2013, 10:57 PM
raid leader's blessing + righteous paladin is actually pretty sweet right off the bat.
and who doesn't love a free Fog? the blessing is currently undervalued, and might be better than the +1 card.

it's more like a 2-card bonus, when you consider the blessing.

keldrin
06-09-2013, 10:59 PM
My thoughts exactly. Raids will be balanced around everybody starting with 7 cards in their hand. Winning or losing will almost never come down to that one extra card you had in your starting hand. It's about building the right deck for the encounter.
I'd even go one step further and state that you shouldn't be raiding in the first place if you need to pay money to beat an encounter.
Really? So, you're going the free account route and going to build your card deck from PVE? I mean, otherwise, you would be paying money for cards/equipment to be able to beat a encounter.
Yeah, I know, I'm being a smart alec, but, my point being, you're paying money to get decent cards to have a decent deck. So, in effect, you are paying to beat an encounter. People said the same thing, when I used expensive rare cards in MTG to beat people who didn't have access to them. So, it could be argued, I payed to win.

Khazrakh
06-09-2013, 11:18 PM
Really? So, you're going the free account route and going to build your card deck from PVE? I mean, otherwise, you would be paying money for cards/equipment to be able to beat a encounter.
Yeah, I know, I'm being a smart alec, but, my point being, you're paying money to get decent cards to have a decent deck. So, in effect, you are paying to beat an encounter. People said the same thing, when I used expensive rare cards in MTG to beat people who didn't have access to them. So, it could be argued, I payed to win.

No offense meant, but please spare me with your Pay2Win argument.
It should be somewhat obvious I didn't talk about buying cards but talking about buying Raidleader to soften up encounters by paying to "change the rules".
It's a TCG after all, so of cause you are going to pay for your cards. Anyway I'm not going to discuss that topic any further, since you're just trying to be smart about it.

Sullemunk
06-10-2013, 12:37 AM
Also if i read it corectly everyone in the team gets the raidleader's blessing wich means you can avoid a death blow on a char up to 3 times if needed

AstaSyneri
06-10-2013, 01:09 AM
I am not quite sure where we are in the argument here, but I'll try to summarize from my viewpoint:


Any online game is pay-to-play (to get this out of the way ;-)). If you want quality, somebody has to pay for it. Personally i am already having fun (dreaming of Concubunnies... :P) with it, so I put quite a bit of money into the KS.
Raids are the prime content for PvE, you need tweaked decks for them to succeed.
Raids will likely come in progressive difficulty, allowing you to gain experience in solving the puzzles.
Having a good team of raiders and players who are good a "puzzle deck building" is always a boon and will help you to succeed in raids.
Having one Raid Leader in your team will be most beneficial, as it gives you an extra card in your opening hand and the Raid Leader's Blessing, helping you to survive the encounter.
Having two or three Raid Leaders in the same raid will benefit you with +2 or +3 cards in your opening hand, but at marginal gain. It will not offset bad decks or bad gamecraft.
Is RL worth the investment? It really depends on what part raids play in your "gaming mix". If PvE multiplayer is your thing, it will help to succeed where otherwise you might have failed. High-end raiders will try to maximize their chances at succeeding everytime, hence they will try to have teams with three good players that do have the Raid Leader trait. For me, being part of a guild that is primarily directed at PvE content, I'd say yes, it's a good investment.


Did I forget anything?

keldrin
06-10-2013, 02:53 AM
On the pay to win argument. IF you really feel that paying to get something otherwise not available, that can make the encounter easier, then the Lotus's from the Lotus Garden would technically fall into that catagory. (and potentially other Kickstarter only champions and cards). Those items are fairly common among many of us that backed the game, so it's harder to think that way. But, people who come to the game afterwards, could justifiably use that argument about those cards. Even if, it might be technically possible to get some of the cards from the AH. The champions though, to my knowledge, are locked to the account.

RanaDunes
06-11-2013, 11:33 PM
I think Raid Leader (from all the $250 tiers) are going to be the most sought-after tier by guilds.

PP will not benefit the guild in anyway, shape or form.
Guilds usually managed by people who pledged a tier that gives GM bonus, so GM is not that important either.
Collector doesn't add anything to the guild, more personal gain.
DC doesn't affect raids right? so it's another personal gain tier.

Now Raid Leader in the other hand can help PvE guilds tremendously. The more RL tiered members you have the better your guild is in raids.

jaxsonbateman
06-11-2013, 11:41 PM
I'm really eager to find out if mulligans will be ruled as '1 less card', or 'next hand to 6'. I really hope it's the former as raid leader gets that much stronger with it. The latter will be ok, but come on big money! :-P

NewbieLam
06-11-2013, 11:52 PM
The value is based on the consumers.... A person that like drafting and "PVP" would not value RL very much and vice versa with someone that like "PVE"

There are no set value for these backer tiers, just the value the backers themselves put on their purchases.

With that being said, the other tiers are more flexible in what you can do with them. PP being the most flexible, as you get to play the format you want i.e. drafting plus you get cards for free. Which in turn you can trade or sell them for more drafting or PVE items. Same thing with the collector, just a little more depended on the market value of AA cards.

RL/DC/GM however are not very flexible. RL/DC/GM requires you to play and win to receives the bonus, while PP you can just rare draft if you want and collector just get their free cards