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Speakmore
06-02-2013, 07:46 PM
Hey guys,
So looking at the Kickstarter I see that there is 4 days left and I'm a little iffy on paying for the game or helping fund it.
I've played Magic the Gathering for MANY years, and this seems to be a close replica to be honest.
However, my biggest question is going to be about card worth. If I'm getting 15 legendaries (if I pay enough) isn't half the community. So won't these cards really be valued at about nothing? I'm also not looking to PvE that much either so I'm really in this for the PvP/Tournaments.

Once again, are these cards even going to be worth anything?

Cotton
06-02-2013, 07:49 PM
Are you referring to the Primal packs? Which are gonna most likely be all Rares with a chance at one being Legendary. Sure you can rip a pack with more then one in it, but the chances will be slim

imacpc
06-02-2013, 07:50 PM
set 1 would not have any value value starts at set 2 or 3

Avaian
06-02-2013, 07:51 PM
(http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=24124&highlight=legendary+test)

Even with opening 400 boosters you won't get a complete set of estimated legendaries.

stephenhii
06-02-2013, 07:54 PM
Only time will tell but my bet is some cards will retain their values for a long time. (promos, AAs, chase epics etc)

Mr.Funsocks
06-02-2013, 07:54 PM
Set 1 is likely going to be a bit undervalued since the kickstarter exploded so hard, yes... Who knows though, 10 years down the line some of these could be great.

MugenMusou
06-02-2013, 08:11 PM
The value among Kickstarter community would be the minimum as it can get as we all getting such phenomenal bargain with this. But the actual value really depends on how many additional people will join after the official launch. Obviously, there will be at least as many people as who have pledged kickstarter will join afterwards. After all, we are just minority of the people who believes in the game in such early stage, and jump on to pledge even 3 months before actually can play the game.

HEX will have tons of more people join afterward. At that point, it really depends how many. 10,000 ppl have tons of packs etc. If additional 10,000 join and they pay $2 full pack price and we paid less than $1. Simple math makes average value $1.50. Now what if 100,000 people joint afterward? The value will be closer to $2. So if you try to sell your card or pack at that point, it is going to be much higher value.

So my point is you won't see much value at the beta launch except for short instance may be some players want to have quick full collection. But the true market value won't be decided until public launch, and the actual value depends on how many additional players we get. My belief is a lot.

Atomzed
06-02-2013, 09:21 PM
In addition to the points mentioned, a lot of the backers are donating to get the life time privileges. This include the $250 tier account benefits, and also the Spectral Lotus garden. It gives you 1x Spectral lotus per day that you log in. Even assuming it worth a measly $1, you get back your King pledge within 120 days. Frankly I think the Spectral Lotus will be worth more than $1 after set 2 and 3 is out and Hex attracts more players.

If $250 is too much for an unproven game, then $120 King is the way to go. You get the best value out of it.

Lazybum
06-02-2013, 09:26 PM
with you being able to melt unwanted cards for crafting mats im sure at first they wont be worth much the prices will go up in time

theradol
06-02-2013, 09:49 PM
with the way the kickstarter has been successful, once this game releases as f2p on pc and tablets, there should be a big growth in player population. if we ever get to 500k players, the 10k exclusive cards they give out will be plenty rare enough.

ShaolinRaven
06-02-2013, 09:55 PM
Not to mention once they start with new sets and then rotating blocks out, most people go for the newer sets. As new sets/blocks come in and people stop buying the older packs but just looking for specific cards to fill out their decks value increases. Not to mention you will have people destroying cards for crafting and a lot of people will be holding on to their play sets so won't let anything go until they have at least 4 of the card.

So if the community stays growing and Crypto keeps supporting and improving Hex I think the value will be there, but like any TCG it will take some time. MtG didn't become super valuable until it picked up speed and then back valued the older sets. Alpha and Beta weren't all that expensive until a few years after they had been out of print as MtGs popularity grew.

HyenaNipples
06-02-2013, 10:04 PM
The cards don't actually exist, so the 'value' of any bit of data is rather laughable. Penny Arcade puts it: When the game isn't worth running anymore, it will simply evaporate.

I think it's a mistake to think of HEX like a physical TCG, since over 90% of HEX's value will be in the engine of play-as opposed to thin pieces of paper.

Gwaer
06-02-2013, 10:06 PM
As the cards don't actually exist, the 'value' of any bit of data is rather laughable. As Penny Arcade puts it: When the game isn't worth running anymore, it will simply evaporate.

I think it's a mistake to think of HEX like a physical TCG, since over 90% of HEX's value will be in the engine of play-as opposed to thin pieces of paper.

That same point can really be said about pets/mounts/etc in wow, too though can't it? And people spend tons on that.

Atomzed
06-02-2013, 10:11 PM
The cards don't actually exist, so the 'value' of any bit of data is rather laughable. Penny Arcade puts it: When the game isn't worth running anymore, it will simply evaporate.

I think it's a mistake to think of HEX like a physical TCG, since over 90% of HEX's value will be in the engine of play-as opposed to thin pieces of paper.

While I agree with your opinion that the value of digital goods can evaporate once the game cease to exist, won't the same argument be applicable to MTG? I mean if no one plays MTG overnight, your physical card is also worth nothing because no one wants to buy it too.

ShaolinRaven
06-02-2013, 10:11 PM
The cards don't actually exist, so the 'value' of any bit of data is rather laughable. Penny Arcade puts it: When the game isn't worth running anymore, it will simply evaporate.

I think it's a mistake to think of HEX like a physical TCG, since over 90% of HEX's value will be in the engine of play-as opposed to thin pieces of paper.

Same with any paper TCG or any collectable. If the people collecting them stop, their value evaporates. Doesn't matter if it is digital or not. Sure you can still play if you know anyone that plays an out of print, unsupported game, but that doesn't mean it has any value.

HyenaNipples
06-02-2013, 10:11 PM
I didn't say people don't spend money on it.

I'm saying they don't have any real value.

Like trying to take the locket of hair over the Wall: its just dust in the real world.

And in the case of an unplayed physical TCG. You still have the cards, so you could play it. There is value in that.

Tyrfang
06-02-2013, 10:13 PM
Most collectibles have no real value.

Paper money currently doesn't have "real" value.

Black_Omega
06-02-2013, 10:15 PM
Hard to value cards before the game is out.

You also need to think about a) how many players there are and b) how many cards are out there. A physical game where a card is worth 50$ may not apply the same way as a virtual game... Since you are not limited by geography.

Even after blocks are 'filtered out', I can see people buying them. While they won't be good in tournaments, pretty sure you can play old cards in some modes, just like in WoW TCG. You would just need 'current' block cards for tournys and other current events, etc.. So there may be some value in older cards. It all depends on how you play.

The most I ever spent on a physical card was 50$ and that was more then ten years ago.

sageco
06-02-2013, 11:14 PM
By definition, a collectable has value only when people want it; if the game dies from lack of players, the value of the digital cards were basically zero anyway.

Purgatus
06-03-2013, 12:06 AM
I understand that serious collectors look for value in this manner.

I get it.......

Really I do......

But it always makes me laugh a bit to myself. The only value I am interested in, is in playing the cards I get. My brain has the attention span of a raven with a shiny new bauble. However much the card is worth to others is wholly irrelevant to me. All that matters is the joy of getting than new card and finding a way to fit it in to my strategies. To each his own.....

theradol
06-03-2013, 12:08 AM
invest in silver coins everybody!

(i sell silver coins)

madar
06-03-2013, 02:23 AM
Frankly I think the Spectral Lotus will be worth more than $1 after set 2 and 3 is out and Hex attracts more players.


I think you are very optimistic: this card is usable in PVE only, once. The PVE will be balanced to be able to complete without this card, since majority will not have. If it would be $1, would mean you spend 1$-$4 on every "difficult" PVE match, maybe 3 times in a single dungeon. For this amount of money you can get the loot from AH\second market i am sure.

There is some market for sure, for the people who have no much time but have money and for the people who play the PVE+PVP format.

Maybe i am too pessimist, but i would say the lotus will have no price at all (you will want to sell only for too much, but ppl would buy a rare for same amount of money, what not disappear after 1 use). The garden will have price, for sure, but thats another story - i am still not sure for a PVE player it worth to pledge a $120 tier instead an $50-$65 tier just because the lotus or will be cheaper in the market than the difference. (i say PVE player because the garden is a PVE card, and for PVE player there is not really much more difference in the pledge tiers between 50-120)

Avaian
06-03-2013, 05:11 AM
I think you are very optimistic: this card is usable in PVE only, once. The PVE will be balanced to be able to complete without this card, since majority will not have.

They PvE content can be beat without Lotus, but would be more difficult. The loot you recieve from dungeons and raids for example tend to change depending on how well you do in the encounters, making lotus valuable to help bring down a difficult encounter in the correct way to get the best loot.

The Arena is a good example, each encounter will be 'judged' by the crowds and depending on how you win it could give you better loot.

Excerpt from 'http://hextcg.com/enter-the-arena/'

'As you battle in the arena, you will be able to earn the favor of the assembled mass of spectators by putting on a thrilling performance. The more the crowd likes you, the better your rewards will be upon your ascension to the victory podium. Those that take the time to put on a worthy performance will find themselves richly rewarded for their efforts.'

majin
06-03-2013, 05:24 AM
one of the main reason why my wife and i got 2 kings is because of the lotus. if I am not mistaken, the lotus only becomes a black tiger when you activate it.

if you have the rare equipment for the lotus, it is a good part of any pve deck. a zero cost artifact that allows you to draw another card and gains 2 life. so 4 lotus is a very good addition even for not so hard pve battles and it remains a lotus as you're not activating it (unless i misunderstood it)

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/606/896/1401b1f21813185adbb745b367b6fea0_large.png?1369096 583

Fireblast
06-03-2013, 05:27 AM
one of the main reason why my wife and i got 2 kings is because of the lotus. if I am not mistaken, the lotus only becomes a black tiger when you activate it.

if you have the rare equipment for the lotus, it is a good part of any pve deck. a zero cost artifact that allows you to draw another card and gains 2 life. so 4 lotus is a very good addition even for not so hard pve battles and it remains a lotus as you're not activating it (unless i misunderstood it)

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/606/896/1401b1f21813185adbb745b367b6fea0_large.png?1369096 583

You're right, it'll be a 4of in every PvE deck just for 0 cost + draw power
(except in dungeons that would change rules about drawing/artifact costs etc...)

~

madar
06-03-2013, 05:46 AM
Yes, no doubt it will be very useful if you have it - i questioned the good price - can't imagine someone would keep spending $10 weekly on lotus, instead of buying permanent cards.

majin
06-03-2013, 05:52 AM
aside from PvE, there will be wild west types of PvPs and if I am playing with a friend who I am very competitive with, I will probably sacrifice a few lotus just to win the match for bragging rights

I can't say if most people will do these on wild west type of PvPs as I won't need to buy them, i can generate 2 everyday

and i just got a facepalm moment, I forgot how lotus can be combo with cards that has a linked effect whenever you draw a card

the more people that will come in after the beta, the more valuable the lotus will be (my prediction)

Avaian
06-03-2013, 05:59 AM
Lotus is Kickstarter only, so it should continue to grow in value as time passes and more players join.

nickon
06-03-2013, 06:36 AM
aside from PvE, there will be wild west types of PvPs and if I am playing with a friend who I am very competitive with, I will probably sacrifice a few lotus just to win the match for bragging rights

I can't say if most people will do these on wild west type of PvPs as I won't need to buy them, i can generate 2 everyday

That won't be happening in PvP, because as madar just said, the lotus is PvE only :)

fitzle
06-03-2013, 06:45 AM
This is the first set so I imagine there will be a few very OP or broken cards that will make it through to release and hold their value long after new sets come out. Hah!

I agree with others though, if you have the willpower (I probably don't), hold on to a legendary pack and don't open it. A couple years from now it may be worth a pretty penny!

Fireblast
06-03-2013, 06:46 AM
There will be a PvP format (for fun) where everything is playable.
I actually wonder how it's gonna work, if you list 4 Lotus in your deck at the start of the tournament and you use them, they become tigers or you replace them with unused ones?

~

TheDiv
06-03-2013, 06:47 AM
This is the first set so I imagine there will be a few very OP or broken cards that will make it through to release and hold their value long after new sets come out. Hah!

I agree with others though, if you have the willpower (I probably don't), hold on to a legendary pack and don't open it. A couple years from now it may be worth a pretty penny!

My first goal is to have a complete playset of Set 1. Once I achieve that, any extra boosters or primals (hopefully) will be set aside to be sold off in years to come :D Then rinse and repeat with every Set until I am broke :D

Mysidia
06-03-2013, 06:49 AM
my understanding... play lotus, exhaust lotus, return to hand and lotus change to black tiger

Fireblast
06-03-2013, 06:52 AM
my understanding... play lotus, exhaust lotus, return to hand and lotus change to black tiger

We all can read the card, but does that mean your decklist changes between games?
How is this handled in a tournament/dungeon, you can replace the tigers by Lotus or you're stuck with tigers?

And I don't wait for answers from the community, either OP_Kyle or wait and see.

~

TheDiv
06-03-2013, 06:56 AM
We all can read the card, but does that mean your decklist changes between games?
How is this handled in a tournament/dungeon, you can replace the tigers by Lotus or you're stuck with tigers?

And I don't wait for answers from the community, either OP_Kyle or wait and see.

~

An educated guess would be that your decklist does change in a simple way: Where the Lotus was, a Black Tiger now sits. Unless you're given the opportunity to change decks between encounters, then you'd be "stuck" with the tigers.

That is my understanding but I agree that an official answer would be more useful.

Mysidia
06-03-2013, 07:06 AM
We all can read the card, but does that mean your decklist changes between games?
How is this handled in a tournament/dungeon, you can replace the tigers by Lotus or you're stuck with tigers?

And I don't wait for answers from the community, either OP_Kyle or wait and see.

~

what do you mean by replace tigers by lotus?
i understand it as your decklist changes. it is a perm effect.

Avaian
06-03-2013, 07:11 AM
Side deck Lotus in Wild West Tournaments.

I see it changing the card and you are stuck with it till you can remove the tiger from your deck, even if you played lotus in an early game, the next would still have that lotus as a tiger.

madar
06-03-2013, 07:28 AM
what do you mean by replace tigers by lotus?
i understand it as your decklist changes. it is a perm effect.

The situation is: you have a tournament, or a PVE dungeon, where you have to be play with same deck, during the entire event - it's mean more fight with same deck. The question is: in case if you set a deck, within "lotus", and then you play the lotus what is change to tiger, what happen in the second round? Since your card list say "lotus" and not "tigger", but maybe you dont have lotus anymore - and even if you have, in theory you cant touch your outsider cards.

Rapkannibale
06-03-2013, 08:04 AM
The cards don't actually exist, so the 'value' of any bit of data is rather laughable. Penny Arcade puts it: When the game isn't worth running anymore, it will simply evaporate.

I think it's a mistake to think of HEX like a physical TCG, since over 90% of HEX's value will be in the engine of play-as opposed to thin pieces of paper.

This argument has been debated many times over, but I will say it again. This argument applies for physical collectible games just as much. If the WoW TCG or Magic stops being popular and noone is playing it and there is no competitive scene, you are left with a bunch of pieces of cardboard that are worth nothing. Sure, you can still play with them with your friends, but the value of them will be greatly decreased if not reduced to basically zero.

Turtlewing
06-03-2013, 09:46 AM
We all can read the card, but does that mean your decklist changes between games?
How is this handled in a tournament/dungeon, you can replace the tigers by Lotus or you're stuck with tigers?

And I don't wait for answers from the community, either OP_Kyle or wait and see.

~

Most accurate answer:
No you deck list does not change, the lotus is just a tiger now. Every card in Hex is unique. Your decklist will be a set of reference to unique cards not a set of populations of interchangeable cards.

Answer you can probably understand better:
Yes your deck list changes in that your deck contains the tiger until you swap it out for another lotus.

I don't believe they've told us if you can swap/modify decks mid dungeon (my guess would be you can't).

Gwaer
06-03-2013, 09:48 AM
My guess would be that it depends on the dungeon.

maniza
06-03-2013, 09:55 AM
set 1 would not have any value value starts at set 2 or 3

you are understimating the ammount of people that will play this game. if a 1000 000 ppl start playing then trust me set one will have value. its up to us to spread the word even after ks is over

Tyrfang
06-03-2013, 10:14 AM
I'm a bit hyped up about the game, but even I think 1m+ player population is way too high for this game, but I might underestimate the draw to casual players.

Rapkannibale
06-03-2013, 10:19 AM
I'm a bit hyped up about the game, but even I think 1m+ player population is way too high for this game, but I might underestimate the draw to casual players.

Completely agree. Wouldn't put it past this game to get a couple of hundred thousand active players though. Especially if they manage to introduce real money tournaments at some point.

BohemianStalker
06-03-2013, 10:36 AM
its up to us to spread the word even after ks is over

this