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View Full Version : So, help me out. Raid Leader or Collector



Zomnivore
06-03-2013, 09:26 AM
I've got 250 to work with, and I'm staring at these two.

Raid leader, I like to have value as a player and a reason to be included...Raid leader kind of gives me that, gives me something that affects play, and could really make me an asset.

Collector, I don't have to work at it, I get a second set of all the cool stuff from the king tier, but the bonus that lasts forever is a yearly thing a long wait, and I'm not exactly a market analyzer I don't know if I could really capitalize on card rarity and values.

If I want something that feels more like an investment and could potentially pay me back collector seems to be the tier to get, I wouldn't have to work for that value outside of figuring out the market.

If I want to enjoy my perk every single time I get into the game and group to battle bosses...then raidleader is a constant pleasure, and gives me an exclusive card I can use in those uber mad crazy include all pve cards tourneys and also in my dungeon runs.

I really don't know how to make up my mind on this, my hearts nudging towards raid leader but my mind says collector is where I can potentially make some money back.

larryhl
06-03-2013, 09:29 AM
If it was me I'd go with Collector (or Dungeon Crawler, as if you didn't have a hard choice already). You will have fun with whatever you choose though.

Jacklau89
06-03-2013, 09:31 AM
I've got 250 to work with, am staring at these two.


...Try to grab a friend and ask him to pledge raid leader so that you can be collector?:)

Hieronymous
06-03-2013, 09:33 AM
If you're in a large enough guild someone will probably already have a grand king and you can group with them for the raid leader benefits when needed. You won't be able to get collector any other way, though.

Zomnivore
06-03-2013, 09:37 AM
If you're in a large enough guild someone will probably already have a grand king and you can group with them for the raid leader benefits when needed. You won't be able to get collector any other way, though.

I don't feel like this is accurate, if this game is as popular as it sounds like it has every right to be, around 1000 players atm have backed in tiers that can get the raid leader bonus.

1000 x 3 is 3000 at any one time who can be experiencing the bonus, I think its going to be quite the treat to play with a raid leader.

Talreth
06-03-2013, 09:39 AM
Go collectorz. hxc pve aint need no buffs

Zomnivore
06-03-2013, 09:47 AM
Bah... I don't know what would be more fun, freaking two of all the king tier exclusives, and a nice little perk w alternate art legendary/rare or awesome raiding +1 to start hand, and an exclusive card + one set of all the king tier.

:C

Gwaer
06-03-2013, 09:49 AM
Just buy RL and Collector. We're worth it.

Zomnivore
06-03-2013, 09:50 AM
Just buy RL and Collector. We're worth it.

Wish it were an option *wistful sigh*

Talreth
06-03-2013, 09:51 AM
I think CL is a bigger benefit than RL. RL seems to be a marginal and situational buff, whereas CL you get cool exclusive stuff forever.

TowelMan
06-03-2013, 09:53 AM
The collector bonus cards are so few that you really have to think about it.

You can either have a few ultra-exclusive cards that may make others jealous (but you could also end up not even those cards, or spending money to build decks around them).

OR

You can practically guarantee yourself a spot in raids, and make those same raids easier.

Do you want an in-game benefit, or to have others say "oh cool where did you get that card"

Gwaer
06-03-2013, 09:54 AM
I think CL is a bigger benefit than RL. RL seems to be a marginal and situational buff, whereas CL you get cool exclusive stuff forever.

That's entirely speculation though, we have no idea how good either tier is. I'm thinking we're definitely undervaluing RL. But we might be undervaluing collector too... =(

Turtlewing
06-03-2013, 09:54 AM
If I want to enjoy my perk every single time I get into the game and group to battle bosses...then raidleader is a constant pleasure, and gives me an exclusive card I can use in those uber mad crazy include all pve cards tourneys and also in my dungeon runs.


Actually no. They've clarified that Raid leader only works in multi-player co-op PvE, so basicly just raids. Quests, dungeons and PvP (like the wild west format) will not get the raid leader bonus.

My advice is go collector. The value for raid leader is pretty limited and unless you plan to make doing raids (not just PvE in general) your main thing it's almost worthless.

Collector will net you more unique cards to play with, and double your daily lotus budget to PvE power boosts.

Talreth
06-03-2013, 09:55 AM
That's entirely speculation though, we have no idea how good either tier is. I'm thinking we're definitely undervaluing RL. But we might be undervaluing collector too... =(

I forgot about the +1 hp/turn. Buttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt I still think CL is better because raids were designed w/out the RL cards in mind so they can just be completed w/out it. Also, everyone says they'll have tough content, I'll believe it when I see it.

Black_Omega
06-03-2013, 09:56 AM
I think it depends if you want PvP or PvE. I went Collector for the alternate art cards. While I will do PvE, I don't feel that I can justify the purchase of a DC or RL as most of my time will be spent in PvP.

If I could afford it though I would get Collector AND Raid Leader. But I can only have one at this time :(

Genocidal
06-03-2013, 09:56 AM
Depends on how much time you have free to play every week. I'd honestly recommend Dungeon Crawler if you plan on doing a lot of PVE both for the extra loot drops and 20 free equipment if you have the time to make use of it. You can theoretically use your extra drops from dungeons to trade for/buy the alt art collector's cards you want. Between your two choices though I'd go with collector. Raid leader seems extremely situational and a bit underwhelming and if the raids are properly balanced you shouldn't need the +1 life/turn.

Zomnivore
06-03-2013, 09:57 AM
Actually no. They've clarified that Raid leader only works in multi-player co-op PvE, so basicly just raids. Quests, dungeons and PvP (like the wild west format) will not get the raid leader bonus.

My advice is go collector. The value for raid leader is pretty limited and unless you plan to make doing raids (not just PvE in general) your main thing it's almost worthless.

Collector will net you more unique cards to play with, and double your daily lotus budget to PvE power boosts.

So, the exclusive card is also only usable in raids? I thought that was just the +1 to hand.

Gwaer
06-03-2013, 09:57 AM
Actually no. They've clarified that Raid leader only works in multi-player co-op PvE, so basicly just raids. Quests, dungeons and PvP (like the wild west format) will not get the raid leader bonus.

My advice is go collector. The value for raid leader is pretty limited and unless you plan to make doing raids (not just PvE in general) your main thing it's almost worthless.

Collector will net you more unique cards to play with, and double your daily lotus budget to PvE power boosts.

This is actually factually incorrect. They clarified DC only worked in dungeons, and not raids, but that RL was all multiplayer non tournament pve, which for right now is just raids... but one day could be dungeons, or any multitude of other things.

larryhl
06-03-2013, 10:00 AM
I'm just amazed DC isn't gone yet. Cory keeps saying how equipment is going to be ridiculous in the game and that number has yet to drop below 300.

Ok, back on topic. Life gain only helps you not lose. However, the sac to Fog (sorry, I completely think of this game in MtG terminology) for a turn IS pretty sweet for a free start on the battlefield card.

But...assuming you plan to play for any time longer than a year...how can you say no to 12 (6 x 2) copies of alternate art rare/legendary PvP cards per year? They're just giving money away there.

Of course, I am sort of biased, considering I went for both DC and Collector because there were no GK tiers left.

Hieronymous
06-03-2013, 10:01 AM
Actually no. They've clarified that Raid leader only works in multi-player co-op PvE, so basicly just raids. Quests, dungeons and PvP (like the wild west format) will not get the raid leader bonus.

My advice is go collector. The value for raid leader is pretty limited and unless you plan to make doing raids (not just PvE in general) your main thing it's almost worthless.

Collector will net you more unique cards to play with, and double your daily lotus budget to PvE power boosts.

This is a good point. Just handing out that extra lotus per day will win you plenty of friends.

Zomnivore
06-03-2013, 10:03 AM
I'm just amazed DC isn't gone yet. Cory keeps saying how equipment is going to be ridiculous in the game and that number has yet to drop below 300.

Ok, back on topic. Life gain only helps you not lose. However, the sac to Fog (sorry, I completely think of this game in MtG terminology) for a turn IS pretty sweet for a free start on the battlefield card.

But...assuming you plan to play for any time longer than a year...how can you say no to 12 (6 x 2) copies of alternate art rare/legendary PvP cards per year? They're just giving money away there.

I feel really conflicted... I feel like multiplayer pve content could be very compelling, and the pve card you get sounds like you can use it whenever so you get something that collector tier doesn't get, and while AA sounds really awesome I have no clue if that can tide me over.

It really comes down to, is their multiplayer pve content going to be good and compelling or is the pvp going to be the only really compelling multiplayer feature.


To be clear, is the card limited in the same way as the account tied bonus of +1 to hand?

Raid leader's +1 inherent buff is different then the raidleaders blessing card right?

Talreth
06-03-2013, 10:05 AM
I feel really conflicted... I feel like multiplayer pve content could be very compelling, and the pve card you get sounds like you can use it whenever so you get something that collector tier doesn't get, and while AA sounds really awesome I have no clue if that can tide me over.

It really comes down to, is their multiplayer pve content going to be good and compelling or is the pvp going to be the only really compelling multiplayer feature.

I'm sure it will be good and compelling, but why not get the things that no one else will ever be able to sign up for again, than to get things that only save you a bit of time?

larryhl
06-03-2013, 10:07 AM
Zomnivore, PvP cards can be used in PvE. So those 12 cards a year can go into your PvE deck.

TowelMan
06-03-2013, 10:11 AM
I feel really conflicted... I feel like multiplayer pve content could be very compelling, and the pve card you get sounds like you can use it whenever so you get something that collector tier doesn't get, and while AA sounds really awesome I have no clue if that can tide me over.

It really comes down to, is their multiplayer pve content going to be good and compelling or is the pvp going to be the only really compelling multiplayer feature.


To be clear, is the card limited in the same way as the account tied bonus of +1 to hand?

Raid leader's +1 inherent buff is different then the raidleaders blessing card right?

Raid Leader buff of +1 is different than the blessing card. The blessing card and +1 are both EXCLUSIVE to the RL tier (and any tier that includes the RL tier); it is not available to the collector.

Zomnivore
06-03-2013, 10:13 AM
Raid Leader buff of +1 is different than the blessing card. The blessing card and +1 are both EXCLUSIVE to the RL tier (and any tier that includes the RL tier); it is not available to the collector.

So that means you can use it in the pve tourney stuff? or in normal dungeons?

Just trying to make sure I'm clear on whether the card would be legal in that no holds barred pve+pvp format. Would also be useable in non raid pve dungeon content right?

BenRGamer
06-03-2013, 10:13 AM
I believe Raids are going to function like the Archenemy duels in DotP 2013, so if you had fun with those, you'll like Raids.

In any case, with stretch goals, Raid Leader gets 2x every King exclusive card, with the exception Spectral Lotus Garden. Collector gets 3x every King exclusive card (and 2x Spectral Lotus Garden), the AA PvP cards are a gamble more than anything on whether you can sell them for much of anything or not, but those cards are guaranteed Rare and Legendary, so they should at least be somewhat useful.

larryhl
06-03-2013, 10:19 AM
So that means you can use it in the pve tourney stuff? or in normal dungeons?

Just trying to make sure I'm clear on whether the card would be legal in that no holds barred pve+pvp format. Would also be useable in non raid pve dungeon content right?

To be honest I haven't seen anything that says this is given to you as an actual card...has it been mentioned in the forums? I was under the impression that it just magically appears on the battlefield when you are in a Raid.

Zomnivore
06-03-2013, 10:20 AM
To be honest I haven't seen anything that says this is given to you as an actual card...has it been mentioned in the forums? I was under the impression that it just magically appears on the battlefield when you are in a Raid.

http://hextcg.com/rewards/#raidleader

its called raidleader's blessing

it says it in the kickstarter after the raid leader sleeves you get a rl exclusive card

Turtlewing
06-03-2013, 10:22 AM
So, the exclusive card is also only usable in raids? I thought that was just the +1 to hand.

Yes, only usable in raids. It doesn't actually go in your deck, it gets put into play at the start of the game.

larryhl
06-03-2013, 10:24 AM
Yes, only usable in raids. It doesn't actually go in your deck, it gets put into play at the start of the game.

That's the impression I got.

Zomnivore
06-03-2013, 10:27 AM
Yes, only usable in raids. It doesn't actually go in your deck, it gets put into play at the start of the game.

Alright, well that helps, I guess collector is the biggest bang per buck, even in pve content.

However, if you read the kickstarter notes, its just states a pve exclusive card, so I really don't know...

I wish I could get some mod talk on this :X

Still now, my guts leading me towards collector as being best for me, even if I don't get the fun of something really unique all the time, a lot of exclusive cards for pve and then a slowly ticking value meter that goes up over the life of the game.

Turtlewing
06-03-2013, 10:36 AM
Alright, well that helps, I guess collector is the biggest bang per buck, even in pve content.

However, if you read the kickstarter notes, its just states a pve exclusive card, so I really don't know...

I wish I could get some mod talk on this :X

Still now, my guts leading me towards collector as being best for me, even if I don't get the fun of something unique all the time, a lot of exclusive cards for pve and then a slowly ticking value meter that goes up over the life of the game.

Yeah, the kickstarted description is fairly inaccurate honestly. I'm basing my info on other threads where people have quoted emails from CZE customer service.

Stok3d
06-03-2013, 10:38 AM
Collector--I just added that tier last night and wanted to get in before the final rush

Zomnivore
06-03-2013, 10:50 AM
So, I found an answer and ya it looks like both the card and the buff are limited to the raids. So I think I'll get more value out of the collector tier.

Thanks for helping me think this out and get some confidence in making a decision.

theradol
06-03-2013, 11:01 AM
So, I found an answer and ya it looks like both the card and the buff are limited to the raids. So I think I'll get more value out of the collector tier.

Thanks for helping me think this out and get some confidence in making a decision.

dude wait wait wait.

These guys on here are all under the impression that this is MTG coming out again under a different name.

If you really think about the likely hood of this game's pve being the bigger draw then its pvp, then realize how hard raids could be while giving the best content in the game.

Well, imo, raid leader is gonna be the better bonus. Collector isn't fun, it just might be valuable. But this isn't mtg, you can't cash out of this game. And worse comes to worse, you could always spend some dollars down the road to pick up those collectors aa cards.

The raid leader perks will be unobtainable ever again no matter how much money someone wants to spend (cept for account trading, but i assume were acting like thats not possible atm. )

larryhl
06-03-2013, 11:06 AM
We can argue undervaluing/overvaluing Raid Leader all day. At the end of the day, if a raid is going to be hard, getting +1 card in starting hand and +1 hp/turn with a one turn potential Fog will not be as useful as having a better raid deck, which Collector gives the possibility of having, for life.

Tyrfang
06-03-2013, 11:07 AM
Woo, 12 cards that probably won't be playable together, FOR LIFE!

Yeah, that was sarcasm.

I realize you can sell the AA cards for more plat to turn into a better raid deck.

Turtlewing
06-03-2013, 11:08 AM
dude wait wait wait.

These guys on here are all under the impression that this is MTG coming out again under a different name.


I'm not.

Raid leader's bonus is a bit hyper-focused. it only benefits you in raids. If raids are your thing it's an excellent bonus. If you'd rather do quests or dungeons than taking on raids, you'll get very little out of raid leader.

Collector gives you more cards that can be used in raids, quests, dungeons, and some in PvP. Granted you could conceivably trade to get those cards, but you'll need something to offer in exchange.

Tyrfang
06-03-2013, 11:09 AM
Every time I see one of these threads, I just think that Raider and Guild Leader should have been combined.

TowelMan
06-03-2013, 11:09 AM
We can argue undervaluing/overvaluing Raid Leader all day. At the end of the day, if a raid is going to be hard, getting +1 card in starting hand and +1 hp/turn with a one turn potential Fog will not be as useful as having a better raid deck, which Collector gives the possibility of having, for life.

Fog, +1 card and +1 hp/turn are all huge.

The hp and fog likely means that you will have a 10-20 hp advantage over another raid group.

dogmod
06-03-2013, 11:10 AM
I'm not.

Raid leader's bonus is a bit hyper-focused. it only benefits you in raids. If raids are your thing it's an excellent bonus. If you'd rather do quests or dungeons than taking on raids, you'll get very little out of raid leader.

Collector gives you more cards that can be used in raids, quests, dungeons, and some in PvP. Granted you could conceivably trade to get those cards, but you'll need something to offer in exchange.

Maybe something like raid loot?

theradol
06-03-2013, 11:12 AM
We can argue undervaluing/overvaluing Raid Leader all day. At the end of the day, if a raid is going to be hard, getting +1 card in starting hand and +1 hp/turn with a one turn potential Fog will not be as useful as having a better raid deck, which Collector gives the possibility of having, for life.

If you assume the collector will give you a better raid deck for life, then sure. But thats just some stuff you have decided is truth with nothing to back it up. Considering this guy is gonna spend 250$ on a ks, I'm sure that his deck won't be garbage without the extra gold from selling his 12 aa's.

And again, yeah, fog in mtg isn't that big of a deal. But this isn't mtg.

The raid leader buff will alot better playing a deck thats equally as good, and, more importantly, You will probably be able to get much better groups together if you have it then if you have don't and have a bigger friend list and tons of group invites. Thats a big deal. And who is to say you won't be able to charge people to group if you have a raid leader buff.

larryhl
06-03-2013, 11:13 AM
If you assume the collector will give you a better raid deck for life, then sure. But thats just some stuff you have decided is truth with nothing to back it up. Considering this guy is gonna spend 250$ on a ks, I'm sure that his deck won't be garbage without the extra gold from selling his 12 aa's.

And again, yeah, fog in mtg isn't that big of a deal. But this isn't mtg.

The raid leader buff will alot better playing a deck thats equally as good, and, more importantly, You will probably be able to get much better groups together if you have it then if you have don't and have a bigger friend list and tons of group invites. Thats a big deal. And who is to say you won't be able to charge people to group if you have a raid leader buff.

So you're saying that I'm wrong because I'm speculating but you're right because you're...speculating. Ok.

theradol
06-03-2013, 11:15 AM
So you're saying that I'm wrong because I'm speculating but you're right because you're...speculating. Ok.

you are saying you know that collector is better.

I'm saying that you are speculating and that raid leader might be as good or better.

Stok3d
06-03-2013, 11:16 AM
If you really think about the likely hood of this game's pve being the bigger draw then its pvp, then realize how hard raids could be while giving the best content in the game.

The raid leader perks will be unobtainable ever again no matter how much money someone wants to spend (cept for account trading, but i assume were acting like thats not possible atm. )

This makes a lot of sense... you can always buy the collector cards down the road if you change your mind. These raider perks you can only get now. With PVE being THE thing and drawing in potentially millions, I could even see ppl paying to get this +1 perk in a group. This perk will be highly sought after and only a few ppl ever having it.

I can see the spams now: "Paying 1Plat for RL perk to Join Premade Raid"

If you're truly torn, get both and merge them :)

Zomnivore
06-03-2013, 11:30 AM
Well... you guys have convinced me to be as un sure about the collector tier and raid tier as before.

rofl

There's another facet to think about, and thats designers and raid design philosophy. Raids from the sound of what I've looked up include all coop style pve content. So that might not just be end bosses eventually. Also raids may go out of favor, designers might focus more on single player content etc.

I remember how wildly design in League of Legends shifted with just a few new hires. Its an interesting thing to think about, what is going to be less volatile and in the end the most rewarding at the end of the day I'm here to have fun playing the game, I personally am not in it for the money, and if collector tier doesn't empower my normal gaming then rl might be better.

Yep now thoroughly undecided.

I can't commit to the 500 it'd take to buy them both unfortunately :C

Erebus
06-03-2013, 11:32 AM
Zomnivore, the community is glad it could help.

theradol
06-03-2013, 11:46 AM
Well... you guys have convinced me to be as un sure about the collector tier and raid tier as before.

rofl

There's another facet to think about, and thats designers and raid design philosophy. Raids from the sound of what I've looked up include all coop style pve content. So that might not just be end bosses eventually. Also raids may go out of favor, designers might focus more on single player content etc.

I remember how wildly design in League of Legends shifted with just a few new hires. Its an interesting thing to think about, what is going to be less volatile and in the end the most rewarding at the end of the day I'm here to have fun playing the game, I personally am not in it for the money, and if collector tier doesn't empower my normal gaming then rl might be better.

Yep now thoroughly undecided.

I can't commit to the 500 it'd take to buy them both unfortunately :C

you have already said what you want though. You want the thing that will make you have more fun.

And you think that pve with groups will be whats fun. So get the thing for that.

If you feel like your passion is pvp constructed then I would say the collector might be better in the long run, but, if you are looking forward to the raiding, get raid leader.

You are going to be plenty rich no matter which 250 tier you get.

Turtlewing
06-03-2013, 12:01 PM
There's another facet to think about, and thats designers and raid design philosophy. Raids from the sound of what I've looked up include all coop style pve content.

What they've said about raids so far is that there are a series of encounters (either a series of bosses, or a boss with multiple forms), and that they are designed to be cooperative challenges.

They've also said that long term they'd like to have the option for people playing the raid bosses, with the rewards you get for beating them based off how good that player's win history is.

Compared with dungeons raids are expected to be harder, more linear, less story driven, and give better loot.

They also have (I think) indicated that there will be many fewer raids than dungeons at launch (40 dungeons vs 6 raids is the number I've seen but that sounds a bit extreme and may be completely wrong).