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Qorsair
06-03-2013, 10:15 AM
We were having a discussion about the Raid Leader tier in IRC and it prompted the following question, which we then submitted to Cryptozoic via Kickstarter.


1) Will there be other raid buffs available within the game?
For instance, instead of the +1 health for your champion per round, electing to use a buff that does 1 damage to the raid boss each turn, or countering the first spell cast by the raid boss every 3rd round, etc.

And as follow-ups based on the answer to 1):

1a) If there are other raid buffs available:
Will this buff stack with them? If so, how does the stacking work? Does each person bring their own buff choice to the raid, or can one person bring multiple buffs to the raid?

1b) If there are not other raid buffs available:
Are you concerned about the potential imbalance of multiple raid leaders grouping together to reduce the difficulty of the encounter? Or the demand for a raid leader in each raid?

Here's the official response:


There are no other raid buffs planned at this time.

We are not concerned at imbalance. The Raids will still be difficult.


Looks like Raid Leader may be the best tier out there for people interested in PVE.
It's the only tier that will have a direct impact on the gameplay.

---------

And for those who are not familiar with the details of the Raid Leader benefits, here is another official response about how it works:


Yes, the Raid Leader blessing card is unique to being a Raid Leader. When you enter a raid as a raid leader each player in the raid will start with one of these cards in play. Additionally, each player in the raid will start with +1 card in their opening hand.

If you have two Raid Leaders that have entered a raid each player will still only start with 1 Raid Leader's Blessing card in play, but will have +2 cards in their opening hand.

More information posted in the 6/5 article on HexTCG.com:

A lot of you may think that all was lost when the Pro Player Tier on the Cryptozoic Kickstarter sold out, but let me give you a piece of advice: go back and reconsider the Raid Leader Tier.

The Raid Leader tier offers you and your fellow adventurers a much needed bonus. Starting out with an extra card in hand at the beginning of a raid can mean the difference between a smooth dragon-slaying or a series of unfortunate events for your raiding party. The Raid Leader tier gives you some added insurance so that you are most likely to finish a raid with everyone receiving loot. Why risk a raid wipe when you can start out with a little advantage?

larryhl
06-03-2013, 10:22 AM
I still don't think 1 extra starting card (not max hand size) and Blessing will overwhelmingly tilt the odds in favor of a group with RL over a group without RL.

TowelMan
06-03-2013, 10:22 AM
Now to ask the other questions:

1) Is the Blessing card, like any other PVE only card, a card that you will have in your deck during normal PVE encounters?
2) During single player PVE encounters (non-raid), do you start with the Blessing card in play?
3) Will the loot drops from Raids be significantly better than dungeon fights?
4) Are raids repeat-able? Is there a time limit between repeats or a reduction in loot drops when repeating a raid?

larryhl
06-03-2013, 10:25 AM
Now to ask the other questions:

1) Is the Blessing card, like any other PVE only card, a card that you will have in your deck during normal PVE encounters?
2) During single player PVE encounters (non-raid), do you start with the Blessing card in play?
3) Will the loot drops from Raids be significantly better than dungeon fights?
4) Are raids repeat-able? Is there a time limit between repeats or a reduction in loot drops when repeating a raid?

I'd like to know the answers to these as well. I'm assuming the answer to 2 is no and 4 is yes to the first question.

Qorsair
06-03-2013, 10:30 AM
Now to ask the other questions:

1) Is the Blessing card, like any other PVE only card, a card that you will have in your deck during normal PVE encounters?
2) During single player PVE encounters (non-raid), do you start with the Blessing card in play?
3) Will the loot drops from Raids be significantly better than dungeon fights?
4) Are raids repeat-able? Is there a time limit between repeats or a reduction in loot drops when repeating a raid?

1) It's a special card, you start the raid with it in play
2) No
3) No official word
4) No official word

Erebus
06-03-2013, 10:33 AM
To more clearly answer TowelMan's question.

Raid Leader Blessing only comes out during RAID boss fights.

You do not get this buff in any other PVE fight.

TowelMan
06-03-2013, 10:36 AM
To more clearly answer TowelMan's question.

Raid Leader Blessing only comes out during RAID boss fights.

You do not get this buff in any other PVE fight.

Well we know that it is in play at the start of RAID boss fights, but as a card, the question was meant to be more concerned with whether it will be mixed into your deck for other PVE (non-raid) content. I'm just curious if they have stated this anywhere.

Qorsair
06-03-2013, 10:39 AM
Well we know that it is in play at the start of RAID boss fights, but as a card, the question was meant to be more concerned with whether it will be mixed into your deck for other PVE (non-raid) content. I'm just curious if they have stated this anywhere.

It's a unique mechanic for Raids only. Below is an earlier official response about how Raid Leader works:


Yes, the Raid Leader blessing card is unique to being a Raid Leader. When you enter a raid as a raid leader each player in the raid will start with one of these cards in play. Additionally, each player in the raid will start with +1 card in their opening hand.

If you have two Raid Leaders that have entered a raid each player will still only start with 1 Raid Leader's Blessing card in play, but will have +2 cards in their opening hand.

I'll update the first post with this quote as well.

jaxsonbateman
06-03-2013, 10:40 AM
As I've said in other threads - one raid leader in the group will be handy for the blessing, and an extra card. A second and third raid leader, while nice, will not be nearly as important as the first, as they're pretty much just giving you a bit of card filtering on your first turn, or a free mulligan or two.

I'm not saying that a second or third raid leader in the party isn't handy; I'm just saying that the second and third player's deck strength and skill is more important than them being a RL or not. As such, DC is, IMO, the best 250 PvE tier still available (in general), and Collector is the best 250 PvP tier still around (in general).

Massabik
06-03-2013, 10:47 AM
I remember Cory stating in one of the interviews that raids will contain the best loot, but I can't remember which one it was.

Qorsair
06-03-2013, 10:47 AM
As I've said in other threads - one raid leader in the group will be handy for the blessing, and an extra card. A second and third raid leader, while nice, will not be nearly as important as the first, as they're pretty much just giving you a bit of card filtering on your first turn, or a free mulligan or two.

I'm not saying that a second or third raid leader in the party isn't handy; I'm just saying that the second and third player's deck strength and skill is more important than them being a RL or not. As such, DC is, IMO, the best 250 PvE tier still available (in general), and Collector is the best 250 PvP tier still around (in general).

Definitely agree with this. We were speculating that RL is being undervalued for the more hardcore PVE players. I believe the most competitive groups will insist on 3 raid leaders, whether to populate their GY to start, or get 3 free mulligans. Like Cory said, gamers are gonna game the system any way they can.

TowelMan
06-03-2013, 10:54 AM
Just thought of a couple of other important questions.

1) Is the Blessing card trade-able?
2) Do we get 2 of the Blessing card (due to the kickstarter exclusive cards doubling)?

Having 2 blessing cards, if tradeable, could make this tier much more valuable as I imagine you could get quite a lot in trade while you would keep one for your own use.

Tyrfang
06-03-2013, 10:55 AM
Now to ask the other questions:

1) Is the Blessing card, like any other PVE only card, a card that you will have in your deck during normal PVE encounters?
2) During single player PVE encounters (non-raid), do you start with the Blessing card in play?
3) Will the loot drops from Raids be significantly better than dungeon fights?
4) Are raids repeat-able? Is there a time limit between repeats or a reduction in loot drops when repeating a raid?

1) Automatically played at the start of the game.

2) Nope, raid-only.

3) Yes. Maybe not better than the entire dungeon clear, however.
"The best rewards in the game are offered by overcoming the raid challenges. Make sure you bring two friends and a large empty sack to carry home all your plunder!"

4) Presumably yes, because otherwise they wouldn't talk about chasing drops so much in interviews...

Zomnivore
06-03-2013, 10:56 AM
Definitely agree with this. We were speculating that RL is being undervalued for the more hardcore PVE players. I believe the most competitive groups will insist on 3 raid leaders, whether to populate their GY to start, or get 3 free mulligans. Like Cory said, gamers are gonna game the system any way they can.

I honestly don't think that'll be feasible if this game gets up to the hundred thousands, in terms of player base.

you're looking at 1000+ a couple hundred people getting the rl bonus. I don't think people will be relying on having a full setup of raid leaders, unless they want to duo content, or solo content where the bonus might just barely make it possible.

Erebus
06-03-2013, 10:57 AM
TowelMan,

It's not a card added to your collection.

Think of it as a Token card created at the start of a raid. (as it creates 1,2 or 3 as needed for the number of players in the raid).

After the raid is done, it ceases to exist.

jaxsonbateman
06-03-2013, 11:15 AM
All this talk about the benefits of raid leader, has had me thinking...

If I'm not successful in sniping a GK, I've been thinking of going DC + Collector. However, Collector isn't really for the 12 extra PvP cards each year, but for the extra sets of KS cards. Going DC + RL on different accounts would give me access to 4 of the KS sets (though admittedly one less Spectral Lotus Garden than DC + Coll), and I could simply do dungeon farming on one account and run raids on the other. I didn't realise how few people would have the RL capability (about 1100 or so atm), and if we compare that to the number of people who will ideally be playing the game if it takes off (hundreds of thousands, if not millions) that means about 1% of players will be capable of providing the RL bonus.

Essentially, if you were to have the RL bonus and be a great player with a solid deck, you'd be very desirable for a raid.

Tyrfang
06-03-2013, 11:18 AM
Some raid leaders might not raid, because it came with GK and they just wanted collector+pp...

mainstager
06-03-2013, 11:22 AM
I still don't think 1 extra starting card (not max hand size) and Blessing will overwhelmingly tilt the odds in favor of a group with RL over a group without RL.

If by this you mean "You're better off just being a good deck builder than relying on a buff." then I 100% agree with you.

However, if you've played as much MTG as I have, you know very well how many times a clutch top deck would have saved your butt. 1 extra card can matter, but it's still up to the player to be smart. RL will only enhance, not carry.

theradol
06-03-2013, 11:25 AM
All this talk about the benefits of raid leader, has had me thinking...

If I'm not successful in sniping a GK, I've been thinking of going DC + Collector. However, Collector isn't really for the 12 extra PvP cards each year, but for the extra sets of KS cards. Going DC + RL on different accounts would give me access to 4 of the KS sets (though admittedly one less Spectral Lotus Garden than DC + Coll), and I could simply do dungeon farming on one account and run raids on the other. I didn't realise how few people would have the RL capability (about 1100 or so atm), and if we compare that to the number of people who will ideally be playing the game if it takes off (hundreds of thousands, if not millions) that means about 1% of players will be capable of providing the RL bonus.

Essentially, if you were to have the RL bonus and be a great player with a solid deck, you'd be very desirable for a raid.

Thats been my plan for about 24 hours.

theradol
06-03-2013, 11:26 AM
If by this you mean "You're better off just being a good deck builder than relying on a buff." then I 100% agree with you.

However, if you've played as much MTG as I have, you know very well how many times a clutch top deck would have saved your butt. 1 extra card can matter, but it's still up to the player to be smart. RL will only enhance, not carry.

I think what people are missing about the blessing is that, a raid boss might have an ability that does 50 damage to target player.

Could even be an instant.

Thats not a trivial thing to avoid.

mainstager
06-03-2013, 11:31 AM
Absolutely, theradol.

Qorsair
06-03-2013, 11:44 AM
I think what people are missing about the blessing is that, a raid boss might have an ability that does 50 damage to target player.

Could even be an instant.

Thats not a trivial thing to avoid.

That is where having additional draws and mulligans (from multiple Raid Leaders) could be very useful, getting all the cards in your initial hand that you need to deal with those threats.

RobHaven
06-03-2013, 11:59 AM
I keep seeing the mulligan thing touted as a major perk for stacking RL bonuses. Doesn't it depend on the rules? If the rules are written such that a first mulligan gives you a new hand of seven cards, the second mulligan gives you a new hand of six cards, etc then having 10 cards in your opening hand will only work once. On the first mulligan, you're back to 7 cards.

Genocidal
06-03-2013, 12:07 PM
At which point, you get +1 starting hand size from each Raid Leader buff.

RobHaven
06-03-2013, 12:12 PM
Is a mulliganed hand still considered your starting hand?
How do they define starting hand? Is it the hand you accept, or the hand you first draw? If it's the hand you accept, are we even sure that you'll see the extra cards prior to accepting that hand?

I know it sounds like I'm nitpicking, but knowing exactly how rules work is a habit I developed from playing Magic ages ago.

Qorsair
06-03-2013, 12:28 PM
Is a mulliganed hand still considered your starting hand?
How do they define starting hand? Is it the hand you accept, or the hand you first draw? If it's the hand you accept, are we even sure that you'll see the extra cards prior to accepting that hand?

I know it sounds like I'm nitpicking, but knowing exactly how rules work is a habit I developed from playing Magic ages ago.

That's a very good point. An easy way to mitigate the potentially unbalanced effects of stacking Raid Leader is to simply make the mulligan drop you to 6 cards regardless of the +1 stacking benefit from Raid Leader. Then it would only increase the odds of starting with a workable hand, and allow you to cherry pick your starting hand, but not allow multiple mulligans before getting penalized.

TowelMan
06-03-2013, 12:34 PM
Response from CZE confirms what people have been saying

Hello,

1) The Raid Leader Blessing is not a card you put in a deck during deck building. It just starts in play when you are playing with a Raid Leader.

2) The Raid Leader Blessing card does not start in play outside a Raid.

3) The cards that drop in Raids are really good for sure. As a whole their average strength are likely better that dungeon drops.

4) Yes, Raids can be done over and over. We don't currently have lock-out timers on Raids.

Thanks.

Mr.Funsocks
06-03-2013, 12:43 PM
All of which means... RL is required to be a top-tier PvE player. The only exception is if the difficulty is low enough that anyone can do it fairly easily. If the difficulty is comparable to how MMO raids conventionally are, this is now required for the best guilds. Badguy has an ability that deals 50 damage as an instant? Sacrifice your blessing. If he doesn't, you get an extra 30 life for your raid over the course of 10 turns. I have some faith in CZE's ability to keep the balance, but as a purely vertical upgrade, this is basically a necessity if you want to be shooting for world firsts.

Punk
06-03-2013, 12:50 PM
If you go 2nd in a raid: You draw your initial hand of 7, then 1 for raid leader, and then 1 for your turn.. you have 9 cards. If you don't have a 1 drop in your hand, you have to discard.

This thought keeps coming to mind. and it sounds really lame.

nicosharp
06-03-2013, 01:06 PM
If you go 2nd in a raid: You draw your initial hand of 7, then 1 for raid leader, and then 1 for your turn.. you have 9 cards. If you don't have a 1 drop in your hand, you have to discard.

This thought keeps coming to mind. and it sounds really lame.
Having to discard on turn 1 after playing a card or 2 is amazing. Deck cycling faster is what a constructive TCG deck is all about. You get to what you want faster. Not to mention, you could hit on plenty of 1 drops, or 0 drops, or have a PvE mercenary that has no hand size limits....

ForgedSol
06-03-2013, 01:12 PM
If you go 2nd in a raid: You draw your initial hand of 7, then 1 for raid leader, and then 1 for your turn.. you have 9 cards. If you don't have a 1 drop in your hand, you have to discard.

This thought keeps coming to mind. and it sounds really lame.

It's hard to go through 60 cards in a deck in a single game. Being able to see more cards is always better. But I can see how it could feel bad initially to discard a card, much like how in the wowtcg, apparently a lot of people who try out the game aren't fond of having to turn a card they want to play into a resource.

But think about this, you can turn the requirement into a positive in and of itself if you design a deck built around graveyard recursion where you want creatures to be discarded so you can then use your spells that will cheat them into play sooner than if you had cast them the normal way.

(I'm assuming these types of cards will exist. I've heard people mention them, but I haven't look at all the spoiled cards myself.)

Or you can just use Cardboard Tube Samurai and not discard.

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 01:40 PM
If the raid leader buffs stack... It will be very imbalanced. Getting +3 cards at the start omg...


Start with 10, play resource and 1 drop and discard 1 (Maybe something that you wanted in the graveyard anyways). So you just got a free sift in magic terms, broken!

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 01:45 PM
As I've said in other threads - one raid leader in the group will be handy for the blessing, and an extra card. A second and third raid leader, while nice, will not be nearly as important as the first, as they're pretty much just giving you a bit of card filtering on your first turn, or a free mulligan or two.

I'm not saying that a second or third raid leader in the party isn't handy; I'm just saying that the second and third player's deck strength and skill is more important than them being a RL or not. As such, DC is, IMO, the best 250 PvE tier still available (in general), and Collector is the best 250 PvP tier still around (in general).


This is terrible logic, because it IS in fact a major advantage to get +2 or +3 extra cards, even if you end up having to discard down to 7, you still get amazing chances of seeing the lands you need and pitching extras..

More then likely these guys will be just as skilled as someone without the buff.

Punk
06-03-2013, 01:54 PM
It's hard to go through 60 cards in a deck in a single game. Being able to see more cards is always better. But I can see how it could feel bad initially to discard a card, much like how in the wowtcg, apparently a lot of people who try out the game aren't fond of having to turn a card they want to play into a resource.

But think about this, you can turn the requirement into a positive in and of itself if you design a deck built around graveyard recursion where you want creatures to be discarded so you can then use your spells that will cheat them into play sooner than if you had cast them the normal way.

(I'm assuming these types of cards will exist. I've heard people mention them, but I haven't look at all the spoiled cards myself.)

Or you can just use Cardboard Tube Samurai and not discard.

A graveyard recursion deck would definitely justify this interaction, I will give you that. If I draw a good, balanced hand and then have to draw another card due to the raid leader buff which forces me to discard, this can be a negative in some decks. I know there are a few combo decks in Magic that I would absolutely hate if I was forced into this situation every game. This may be having to choose to discard a resource, a combo piece or a removal/creature/other card that is also potentially important to the match up on Turn 1. "The top 9-10 cards of your deck are your ideal cards you want to see in this match up! Awesome! Now go discard one."

Additionally, I really shouldn't have to choose CTS to prevent a potential turn 1 hazard because I am grouped with a Raid Leader.

I know Cryptozoic stated that there will be the ability to turn this off. I am not sure if this would be turned off on the Raid Leaders end or if it could be turned off my end, for example. Hopefully both.

Qorsair
06-03-2013, 03:10 PM
Drawing extra cards only to discard some of them is something a lot of new players have difficulty getting over.

Maybe this will help... imagine that instead of discarding that extra card from your hand, you're just putting it on the bottom of the deck. Now you feel better about not throwing it away, right? Now, think about it... you'll probably never draw it, meaning you'd never get to use it anyway.

The beneficial part of the draw & discard is that you got to pick *which* of the 8-10 cards in your hand have the most relative benefit to you. This is almost always a good thing.

Tyrfang
06-03-2013, 03:13 PM
You don't have to discard until the end of the turn.

Unless you have 2 (if going second)/3 raid leaders on the same group, that shouldn't matter...

Also, as the nine-tailed merc, you get 9 cards in your starting hand. With raid leader x3, you get 12! :)

wurtil
06-03-2013, 04:42 PM
See, that 12 starting card hand scares me to death with Spectral Lotus and its Phantasmal Grips in the fold. Imagine the following deck:

4x Spectral Lotus
4x Uruunaz
20x Blood
32x Expensive creatures

Equipment: Phantasmal Grips, Gaze of the Dragon, The Manipulator's Mantle

If you get a Spectral Lotus in the opener, play it and sac it. Use the Phantasmal Grip ability to discard every non-Spectral Lotus/Uruunaz card (so at most, draw 12 more cards, getting you 25 cards deep so far). Play a second Lotus, and sac it if you don't have a Uruunaz yet to find one. Now, play one Blood resource and you have the 7 resources to play Uruunaz.

When Uruunaz comes into play, target yourself and bury 14 cards. You'll hit a bunch of your expensive creatures and most likely be able to bury 60+ cards as they all come into play, decking a raid boss who is vulnerable to this approach.

And we don't even have all the cards yet, but this is just one Turn 1 kill that has to be protected against from triple raid leader abuse...

Tyrfang
06-03-2013, 04:46 PM
Raid bosses generally do not have only 60 cards in their deck, but that's an interesting PvE combo I haven't considered...

Unfortunately, it costs 2 Spectral Lotuses/fight, and you're pretty screwed if you don't have a second lotus in your hand after the first sac/discard, but the chance of that is pretty low.

theradol
06-03-2013, 06:15 PM
raid bosses in the wow tcg can't be decked. they just shuffle their gy back into their library.

made the decks to do it 6 years ago...

or milled iirc.

marsellus27
06-03-2013, 07:43 PM
See, that 12 starting card hand scares me to death with Spectral Lotus and its Phantasmal Grips in the fold. Imagine the following deck:

4x Spectral Lotus
4x Uruunaz
20x Blood
32x Expensive creatures

Equipment: Phantasmal Grips, Gaze of the Dragon, The Manipulator's Mantle

If you get a Spectral Lotus in the opener, play it and sac it. Use the Phantasmal Grip ability to discard every non-Spectral Lotus/Uruunaz card (so at most, draw 12 more cards, getting you 25 cards deep so far). Play a second Lotus, and sac it if you don't have a Uruunaz yet to find one. Now, play one Blood resource and you have the 7 resources to play Uruunaz.

When Uruunaz comes into play, target yourself and bury 14 cards. You'll hit a bunch of your expensive creatures and most likely be able to bury 60+ cards as they all come into play, decking a raid boss who is vulnerable to this approach.

And we don't even have all the cards yet, but this is just one Turn 1 kill that has to be protected against from triple raid leader abuse...

How exactly does this work? Spectral Lotus gives you Threshold not Resources.

wurtil
06-03-2013, 08:00 PM
Ahh, can't be decked. Still, you would have every creature in the raid boss's deck in play on your side on turn one, so not hard to imagine winning easily from there unless the raid boss has some power to stop/slow you (which many probably will, but not all).

And yep, 2 lotuses per fight, but considering they could allow you to very quickly farm gold and legendary loot from the boss mobs, you should be able to pay for them from the winning.

And the lotus also gives +3/+0, which is equivalent in magic terms of giving three mana until the end of the turn.

marsellus27
06-03-2013, 08:09 PM
Oh wow I've totally been overlooking the +[3/0] on that card.

Qorsair
06-04-2013, 10:19 AM
There are some people on the Kickstarter comments wondering about Raid Leader... bumping this to the front so they can easily take a look at the official responses.

kirkus
06-04-2013, 10:32 AM
I think there are a couple problems with your strategy

1) I do not believe Spectral lotus can activate on the same turn it is played. Therefore you would have to wait to turn 3 to get uruunaz unless you started with 2 Spectral lotus in your hand in which case you could do it on turn 2.
2) When Uruunaz comes into play, target champion only would discard 7 cards not 14 as Uruunaz cost is 7.
3) You'll have to wait a turn for Uruunaz to attack and so creatures won't start coming into play until the turn after Uruunaz comes into play.
4) Uruunaz has to deal damage to the champion in order for his second effect to activate, so the effect could and most likely will be blocked. Even if Uruunaz hits the champion you can only add 1 creature from your graveyard. Still very powerful, but not as powerful as adding all creatures all at once.

larryhl
06-04-2013, 10:36 AM
I think there are a couple problems with your strategy

1) I do not believe Spectral lotus cannot activate on the same turn it is played. Therefore you would have to wait to turn 3 to get uruunaz unless you started with 2 Spectral lotus in your hand in which case you could do it on turn 2.
2) When Uruunaz comes into play, target champion only would discard 7 cards not 14 as Uruunaz cost is 7.
3) You'll have to wait a turn for Uruunaz to attack and so creatures won't start coming into play until the turn after Uruunaz comes into play.
4) Uruunaz has to deal damage to the champion in order for his second effect to activate, so the effect could and most likely will be blocked. Even if Uruunaz hits the champion you can only add 1 creature from your graveyard. Still very powerful, but not as powerful as adding all creatures all at once.

Uruunaz's equipment lets buried troops come into play immediately and bury an additional card for each [BLOOD] you have (which should be 7 in this case). Then, when another troop comes into play, his effect goes off again. This is why you target yourself first.

jaxsonbateman
06-04-2013, 10:49 AM
I think there are a couple problems with your strategy

1) I do not believe Spectral lotus can activate on the same turn it is played. Therefore you would have to wait to turn 3 to get uruunaz unless you started with 2 Spectral lotus in your hand in which case you could do it on turn 2.
2) When Uruunaz comes into play, target champion only would discard 7 cards not 14 as Uruunaz cost is 7.
3) You'll have to wait a turn for Uruunaz to attack and so creatures won't start coming into play until the turn after Uruunaz comes into play.
4) Uruunaz has to deal damage to the champion in order for his second effect to activate, so the effect could and most likely will be blocked. Even if Uruunaz hits the champion you can only add 1 creature from your graveyard. Still very powerful, but not as powerful as adding all creatures all at once.
Spectral Lotus certainly can activate the turn it's played. The can't-exhaust thing applies to troops, not artifacts. Well, almost certainly. Without rules set in stone, they could always surprise us with some wonkiness.

Larryhl explains the rest of why this works. The one thing is, has it been confirmed that the threshold provided by Spectral Lotus can be any color? I'd assume so, given that it'd become extremely limited otherwise, but we don't know enough about the rules yet to dictate that when a card says add 3 threshold it means 3 threshold of any color.

Stok3d
06-04-2013, 10:54 AM
@Qorsair: Thank you for this thread. Until I read this yesterday, I had no idea RL starting hands stacked. I'm linking this thread everywhere I can now.

Besides arguably Pro Tier, having a +3 card starting hand in Raids is the biggest perk of any $250 tier. People need to realize how important this is. Getting 10cards in your starting hand: Drop 1 land and 2x Lotus and you're tinkering with 7x mana + 7 threshold starting at turn 1. Throw down a couple cards (I'll pretend a few howling Howling Mines / Mana Flare / etc) and the effects you're having for your guildies playing after you is insane.

If you want to be serious in PVE--this RL perk is a must have!

jaxsonbateman
06-04-2013, 11:02 AM
Raid encounters won't be balanced around having Spectral Lotus in your deck, let alone using them. One raid leader in your group will be great (for an extra card and the constant). 2 or 3 will be groovy, but far from necessary. I must stress that I'm not saying 2 or 3 RLs in a group won't be great. I'm just saying that it won't be so necessary that you have to give up perks from the other 250 tiers.

I've got DC, and I'm having a tough time between RL and Collector as my second choice. RL really compliments how much of a PvE player I am (which is why DC was my top priority), and given how few RLs there'll be compared to the total player base it means lots of groups will want me in them, which is just fine by me. :-) However, getting RL almost forces me to merge the account with the DC one. Collector, on the other hand, would allow me to keep them separate - which would allow me to get an extra draft each week, and an extra VIP sub.

Oh decisions. >.<

Omniloathe
06-04-2013, 11:13 AM
3 raid leaders in a group is gonna be insane.

Qorsair
06-05-2013, 12:06 PM
On the latest article they mention the value of the Raid Leader tier.
http://hextcg.com/dragon-slaying/


A lot of you may think that all was lost when the Pro Player Tier on the Cryptozoic Kickstarter sold out, but let me give you a piece of advice: go back and reconsider the Raid Leader Tier.
The Raid Leader tier offers you and your fellow adventurers a much needed bonus. Starting out with an extra card in hand at the beginning of a raid can mean the difference between a smooth dragon-slaying or a series of unfortunate events for your raiding party. The Raid Leader tier gives you some added insurance so that you are most likely to finish a raid with everyone receiving loot. Why risk a raid wipe when you can start out with a little advantage?

I updated the first post with this quote as well.

larryhl
06-05-2013, 12:16 PM
Yes, CZE's official response on Raid Leader is that everyone should get Raid Leader. After Raid Leader sells out, their next official response will be everyone should get Guild Master =P

Qorsair
06-05-2013, 12:19 PM
Yes, CZE's official response on Raid Leader is that everyone should get Raid Leader. After Raid Leader sells out, their next official response will be everyone should get Guild Master =P

Are you still trying to convince yourself you don't want Raid Leader? ;)

larryhl
06-05-2013, 12:21 PM
Are you still trying to convince yourself you don't want Raid Leader? ;)

Nah, I'm still trying to convince myself not to try sniping a Grand King though ;)

Qorsair
06-05-2013, 12:32 PM
Nah, I'm still trying to convince myself not to try sniping a Grand King though ;)

If you have the time to set it up... you probably should! I'm hoping I'll have the time to set it up to get my wife's account up to GK, but I've been hoping that for the last 3 or 4 days, so she'll probably be stuck with DC + PP.

larryhl
06-05-2013, 12:38 PM
If you have the time to set it up... you probably should! I'm hoping I'll have the time to set it up to get my wife's account up to GK, but I've been hoping that for the last 3 or 4 days, so she'll probably be stuck with DC + PP.

Setting it up will largely depend on whether factions work out the way I hope they will, because otherwise I will want to have multiple accounts anyway.

Qorsair
06-05-2013, 12:42 PM
Setting it up will largely depend on whether factions work out the way I hope they will, because otherwise I will want to have multiple accounts anyway.

I actually just submitted a question via Kickstarter about that this morning. I'll post a new thread when I get the response. I'm also wondering if I'm going to need multiple accounts or not.

AstaSyneri
06-06-2013, 07:16 AM
Thanks for the clarifications here - that really helped to make my decision process and informed decision process ;-).

Considering my guild mates that now makes Raid Leader much more attractive (the +3 opening hand size is a major boon).

TheHangedMan
06-06-2013, 01:30 PM
I just signed up as a Raid Leader.

Expensive?

Relative to King heck yes, but as long as the raids are challenging that bonus will be in demand by groups and guilds. The card rewards will be diluted over time as more sets come out but a life-long mechanical bonus only shared by less than 2,000 players is hard to pass up. Plus, there are currently no plans for other raid bonuses in the game and hopefully it stays that way!

AstaSyneri
06-07-2013, 01:40 AM
Yeah, i trust CZE to make sure all tiers would be worthwhile. IMHO the Raid Leader will make the multiplayer loot much more accessible. Imagine you want the loot from one of the more difficult raids? Having Raid Leaders will make a huge difference, especially if they are quick and brutal opponents.

This is one of those long-run tiers, that will be much more valuable a year or two from now.