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Verdant
06-03-2013, 12:42 PM
Another day, another victory for Blood. Just saw Omen of Oblivion (http://hextcg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/OmenOfObliv_Gear_Web.png). Bloody hell, such a combo destroyer... Kinda reminds me of Lobotomy from my old MtG days.

I can only hope that other gems hold cards of similar power, because at the moment Blood is looking really strong. Like, really, really strong.

Erebus
06-03-2013, 12:44 PM
I'm kind of disappointed in how weak Diamond is at the moment.

Ruby has some very nice burn spells, Sapphire the artifact synergy, and Wild has pack raptors (nuff said).

All I've seen in Diamond are some high cost fatties that just don't work well in constructed.

Tathel
06-03-2013, 12:56 PM
Do you think this is literally 1 copy of the card or all copies in the deck. For a physical game it would for sure be all copies, in this it says Chosen Card, not something like 'named card'

Verdant
06-03-2013, 12:57 PM
I reckon Diamond as it goes is on it's way to become an immovable object. We've seen quite a few defensive cards already. However, it's still a fraction of full sets, so hope lives.

@Tathel I think it's just one particular card.

Tyrfang
06-03-2013, 12:57 PM
It has to be 1 copy of 1 card, it's much too powerful to void everything. Just pick a resource. gg.

Tathel
06-03-2013, 12:59 PM
It has to be 1 copy of 1 card, it's much too powerful to void everything. Just pick a resource. gg.

True, i'm also noticing cards like this don't trigger a deck shuffle?

I assume it's because in digital space you can present the deck unordered?
Have we seen any cards that trigger a deck shuffle?

Deadpool319
06-03-2013, 01:00 PM
Do you think this is literally 1 copy of the card or all copies in the deck. For a physical game it would for sure be all copies, in this it says Chosen Card, not something like 'named card'

Rules as written it is the specific card you choose. Not all copies of it, just that one. From what I can tell, this card is not Extirpate on steroids.

Deadpool319
06-03-2013, 01:01 PM
True, i'm also noticing cards like this don't trigger a deck shuffle?

I assume it's because in digital space you can present the deck unordered?
Have we seen any cards that trigger a deck shuffle?

This is my current question with the card. It must trigger a shuffle, otherwise you play this card and always pick the top card of their deck. Then you proceed to Void-mill their entire deck.

Estar1
06-03-2013, 01:01 PM
True, i'm also noticing cards like this don't trigger a deck shuffle?

I assume it's because in digital space you can present the deck unordered?
Have we seen any cards that trigger a deck shuffle?

Yes Replicators Gambit spefically says shuffle card into deck (so would change peek up etc).

As to the topic we also havent seen any Wild Fatties (Wild should generally get the most efficent big creatures if similar to MTG)

Tathel
06-03-2013, 01:03 PM
This is my current question with the card. It must trigger a shuffle, otherwise you play this card and always pick the top card of their deck. Then you proceed to Void-mill their entire deck.

Well i'm more inclined to think it doesn't trigger a shuffle and you just choose a card from alphabetic deck list with cards already out of the deck removed.

Which would have the interesting side effect of being able to quickly tell a bit about what is in the persons hand if you know their deck well.

Erebus
06-03-2013, 01:03 PM
This is my current question with the card. It must trigger a shuffle, otherwise you play this card and always pick the top card of their deck. Then you proceed to Void-mill their entire deck.

Once again, digital space. Why show the deck in draw order?

larryhl
06-03-2013, 01:03 PM
This should shuffle the deck. Unless the deck is presented in a random order. Either way it'll have to be in such a way that you can't always choose the top card of the opponent's deck.

MicZeSeraphin
06-03-2013, 01:04 PM
As others have stated, nothing is forcing the game to present you the cards as they are ordered in your opponent's deck. The client can show it you by alphabetical order, colour, set, number of bunnies, whatever strikes it's fancy (I hope it's bunnies).

Deadpool319
06-03-2013, 01:05 PM
Well i'm more inclined to think it doesn't trigger a shuffle and you just choose a card from alphabetic deck list with cards already out of the deck removed.

Which would have the interesting side effect of being able to quickly tell a bit about what is in the persons hand if you know their deck well.

Now that is a very interesting thought...

Tathel
06-03-2013, 01:06 PM
As others have stated, nothing is forcing the game to present you the cards as they are ordered in your opponent's deck. The client can show it you by alphabetical order, colour, set, number of bunnies, whatever strikes it's fancy (I hope it's bunnies).

Big Ad for Shin'hare decks, big Disad for other, rumour is when it's not in NoB order it's draw order

Verdant
06-03-2013, 01:08 PM
Here is another thought: will we able to differentiate between marked and unmarked cards? Don't want to place another Omen at the same target :-)

nearlysober
06-03-2013, 01:08 PM
Seeing their deck in draw order would be too powerful on it's own... let alone this card would let you deck them in that case.

I think you'd have to see a randomized version of their deck and pick a card.

Fireblast
06-03-2013, 01:11 PM
Omen of oblivion targets 1 card, not all its occurences.
There's a huge chance your opponent will never draw the card, pointless.

~

Tathel
06-03-2013, 01:12 PM
Here is another thought: will we able to differentiate between marked and unmarked cards? Don't want to place another Omen at the same target :-)

This also made me wonder if you played 2 and picked the same card I supposed 2 more would generate off the one card drop, so it wouldn't be too bad and kind of an interesting disadvantage if it wasn't marked

Erebus
06-03-2013, 01:12 PM
And I think you can tell the difference. As it says "this card gains". So imagine it gains the additional text.

Otherwise tutors would cry. :)

MrCwis
06-03-2013, 01:14 PM
Here is another thought: will we able to differentiate between marked and unmarked cards? Don't want to place another Omen at the same target :-)

As with other cards we've see it's likely that the target will gain the text in the text area of the card so that if you play the second omen, while looking at the cards you'll be able to see which one you already choose.

Omegahugger
06-03-2013, 01:16 PM
Of course, you need to combine this card with something that allows you to regain your actions. The curse keeps going no matter how many times you cast it~

Unfortunately, it doesn't fit with milling at all. Which is sad.

Tathel
06-03-2013, 01:17 PM
Omen of oblivion targets 1 card, not all its occurences.
There's a huge chance your opponent will never draw the card, pointless.

~

I dunno, you can essentially use it as a 1 for 1 trade 1/4 of the time. On it's own I'm not sure it's worth while but if you have anything that makes playing a basic action, choosing a card (anything like that) it may be worth using. Or if you can get a way to play a couple. Because if you play 2 you void 2 copies of CardX and then it's a 50/50 the copy they draw can be used to void a 3rd

LargoLaGrande
06-03-2013, 01:17 PM
Omen of oblivion targets 1 card, not all its occurences.
There's a huge chance your opponent will never draw the card, pointless.

~

Not necessarily. Some control decks run a small number of wincons, many combo decks don't pack a large amount of redundancy into their combos. It's no Cranial Extraction, but it has a place somewhere.

MatWith1T
06-03-2013, 01:22 PM
I don't see me putting this in a constructed PvP deck, but with its gear, it could easily find a home in a raiding deck.

MrCwis
06-03-2013, 01:27 PM
Omen of oblivion targets 1 card, not all its occurences.
There's a huge chance your opponent will never draw the card, pointless.

~

You get to see there entire deck, that's a lot of information that you just gained, and that infomation might win you the game. Also if Hex decks are going to follow MtG deck guidelines a lot of control decks will only have a few wincons, and with this you could void all of them as the draw them. With four copies you could void their strongest cards, or just cards that you'd have trouble playing against. If there is a way to recurr this card over and over again, and I'm going to assume there probably is, then you could ed up voiding the entire deck in time. Against mid-range take out the big hitters that they're hoping to end the game with, against aggro if you can survive long enough to use this card they probably have very few cards that are good late game and you can get rid of them before they're drawn. We've seen the life gain blood has access to so surviving long enough for this to be played a couple times should see the game end in your favor

Xenavire
06-03-2013, 01:41 PM
Dungeon deck with void marauder, would sync up so well.

Too bad we don't really know of anything in PvP, but I swear there was a red spell that could copy it as it is played... A red/black deck based around card denial and cheap burns could be pretty strong.

Moondancer
06-03-2013, 01:45 PM
The card is gimmicky but can easily be found in a lot of sideboards to disrupt combo centric decks. It just means combo decks need to build in a bit more redundancy assuming this is the best sideboard option against them.

Erebus
06-03-2013, 01:45 PM
Xenavire.

It's called Overcharge, it's PVE only (as it comes from an equip set).

Avaian
06-03-2013, 01:46 PM
Good card to get rid of those pesky Escalation actions.

MrCwis
06-03-2013, 01:51 PM
Good card to get rid of those pesky Escalation actions.

Bye Bye ragefire

alpha5099
06-03-2013, 01:55 PM
It probably wouldn't apply to this card, as the void effect comes off of the card entering your hand, but it would be interesting if you could add text to your opponent's cards without them knowing the card had been altered. A card like this, that chooses a card in their deck and provides it with some booby trap-like effect when they play the card, but when they draw the card the new text is invisible to them.

Tyrfang
06-03-2013, 02:14 PM
There's actually a defensive use to this, if someone booby traps your own deck.

LargoLaGrande
06-03-2013, 02:23 PM
It probably wouldn't apply to this card, as the void effect comes off of the card entering your hand, but it would be interesting if you could add text to your opponent's cards without them knowing the card had been altered. A card like this, that chooses a card in their deck and provides it with some booby trap-like effect when they play the card, but when they draw the card the new text is invisible to them.

That sounds cool, but I think in practice it would turn out to be more frustrating to play against than getting completely mana screwed. Imagine if there was a troop that was completely invisible. Your opponent doesn't get to see you cast it, doesn't see your mana change, doesn't see it attack him, or his life total change until he dies. Imagine trying to play against that, it would be terrible; when you lose its awful because lost to a card, not your opponent. When you win it wasn't because of your skill, but because of a card he couldn't interact with. I feel like it would be exactly the same with anything that alters your opponent's cards without them knowing what was altered.

caffn8d
06-03-2013, 02:35 PM
Do the probability calculations, and this card ends up being an amusing combo breaker... but that's about it.

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 02:40 PM
It will be ABC order just like MTGO.

Xenavire
06-03-2013, 02:40 PM
Xenavire.

It's called Overcharge, it's PVE only (as it comes from an equip set).

Right, thats why I couldn't find it. I really should favourite a database sometime, helps me not make these sorts of mistakes.

Still, two mini-combos already, we can easily expect more as more cards are revealed.

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 02:41 PM
Interesting card though, it exiles something from library for 1 mana, and not only that if they get unlucky and draw it, they lose their draw.

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 02:42 PM
Interesting how it says "Ignore threshold requirements"
So thats a hint that its possible to lose threshold? Otherwise there is 0 need for that text.

wing0gund
06-03-2013, 03:03 PM
The ignore threshold part allows you to play a card that isn't a color you have the resources for in your deck.

syphonhail
06-03-2013, 03:06 PM
I would happy to play this in every non-tournament constructed game ever against random opponents. Turn 1 Omen, screenshot, and we have a new deck list.

Avaian
06-03-2013, 03:06 PM
The ignore threshold part allows you to play a card that isn't a color you have the resources for in your deck.

This is read as if you get to play the card that is voided. I want to clear it up and say that when the card is voided you create a new Omen of Oblivion and play it.

LargoLaGrande
06-03-2013, 03:11 PM
Interesting how it says "Ignore threshold requirements"
So thats a hint that its possible to lose threshold? Otherwise there is 0 need for that text.

It's also possible that there will be non-blood cards that let you play cards from your opponent's hand/library. You need that rider just in case I steal an Omen from you and cast it, then you draw the voided card all while I have no blood threshold.

Beastmaster
06-03-2013, 05:01 PM
It would be awesome for drafted though - instant deck info and prevent them from using their best card ;)

Tyrfang
06-03-2013, 05:03 PM
Definitely better in limited than in constructed, because deck sizes are smaller and you basically remove one of their bombs.

TheDiv
06-03-2013, 05:30 PM
Anyone else super excited about this in PvE? We know that the bosses we fight will have cards we will never get access too... this would be so much fun to turn the bosses best cards back onto them using the second piece of gear :D

Fateanomaly
06-03-2013, 05:40 PM
So OP. You get to look at the opponent deck and you can actually curse his cards again and again so thats more than a 1 to 1 trade. Thats practically a combo in itself.

Madican
06-03-2013, 05:58 PM
1 Mana and 1 Blood to see every card in the opponent's deck, trap one, shuffle their deck, negate their draw when they get it, and it will create a new Omen when it happens to shuffle their deck again.

Oh yeah, not overpowered at all. Blood is looking way too strong compared to the other shards.

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 09:52 PM
The ignore threshold part allows you to play a card that isn't a color you have the resources for in your deck.

Well if you ignore the equipment, you create and play another omen of oblivion, but if you cast the first one, you should not have to worry about the threshold costs ever.

Unless of course you can lose threshold somehow wink wink.

Black_Omega
06-03-2013, 10:03 PM
1 Mana and 1 Blood to see every card in the opponent's deck, trap one, shuffle their deck, negate their draw when they get it, and it will create a new Omen when it happens to shuffle their deck again.

Oh yeah, not overpowered at all. Blood is looking way too strong compared to the other shards.

Pretty sure it creates 2 when it is finally triggered. I couldn't read the card in the stream, but they said that when it is finally drawn and the card is tossed, it creates two new Omens to use immediately. Unless they read / spoke wrong.

Showsni
06-03-2013, 10:08 PM
Pretty sure it creates 2 when it is finally triggered. I couldn't read the card in the stream, but they said that when it is finally drawn and the card is tossed, it creates two new Omens to use immediately. Unless they read / spoke wrong.

That is what he said in the stream, but it's certainly not on the card as spoilered to us; unless he was thinking of using it with the Equipment that makes it 2 cards intstead of 1, which would make sense.

Kalius
06-03-2013, 10:15 PM
In response to the people saying Omen of Oblivion isn't playable, MtG has several cards that do the same thing, except instantly remove them from the opponents deck, and they see a lot of play. Granted, most of them remove more than one card, but that's just it, the only remove the card.

In this case, not only is it possible that the game doesn't tell the opponent which card you picked, but if they draw it, it immediately poofs(keeping them from getting a card that turn), and lets you get rid of another card from their deck. All for 1 resource. In MtG, even the cards that exiles just 1 card from an opponents deck costs 2-3, and see play in multiple formats. Denying your opponent the ability to use a key card of their deck for 1 is pretty strong, especially if it triggers more removal off just that one casting.

Main deck card? probably not more than a 1 of to see what they're running in the first game. Sideboard? easily.

ShadowIronblood
06-03-2013, 10:27 PM
probably already said but it does day Look at the opposing champion deck, the deck will probably not be in its current order or itll just cause it to be reshuffled. It is still very dangerous card that if choose right could continue to mill all of your foes best cards.

wing0gund
06-03-2013, 10:51 PM
Well if you ignore the equipment, you create and play another omen of oblivion, but if you cast the first one, you should not have to worry about the threshold costs ever.

Unless of course you can lose threshold somehow wink wink.

Yeah my bad, I was thinking of the equipment that let you play the card. We already know you can lose threshold, there was a card spoiled that as part of the effect you had to lose one of your thresholds, your choice. Beats me if I can remember the card though. Though who knows if you'll be able to effectively destroy your opponents threshold. They tried hard to steer clear of that in WoWtcg.

alpha5099
06-03-2013, 10:52 PM
That is what he said in the stream, but it's certainly not on the card as spoilered to us; unless he was thinking of using it with the Equipment that makes it 2 cards intstead of 1, which would make sense.

Yeah, I assume he was a little mixed up about what it does without equipment.

And answering other questions they confirmed in the stream that Omen would shuffle the deck after it went off. Doesn't tell us what order the opponent's deck will appear when we play Omen, but anyway the whole idea of targeting the top card (which was so obviously broken that it had to not be how the card worked) is null now. And of course, with everything being done digitally the card doesn't technically need to tell us to shuffle, as the system will do that for us automatically, but obviously it's better for a card's text to be as clear and upfront about its effects as it can.

jaxsonbateman
06-04-2013, 12:38 AM
It's decent, but probably sideboard material best, to be saved for must-answer cards. After all, there's a good chance your opponent *won't* hit that card in the game, making it card disadvantage.

Also, you definitely won't get an unordered list to look through, and then avoid the shuffle. It has to be ordered, or has to shuffle afterwards. Otherwise you'd just keep picking the top card of the deck and win the game.

Jarric
06-04-2013, 03:15 AM
probably already said but it does day Look at the opposing champion deck, the deck will probably not be in its current order or itll just cause it to be reshuffled. It is still very dangerous card that if choose right could continue to mill all of your foes best cards.

Actually you misread the card ... as did apparently most people here ...

I can't repost the card here since Potion of Wit doesn't have it yet but, It says "Look at target champions deck ... " ... you could choose your own deck.

Why? To thin it? ... or to use it with the legendary chest piece that then allows you to play that card with no cost and no threshold. Could allow you to get a big baddie out early .... especially if you got enough card draw or a tutor. :-P

jaxsonbateman
06-04-2013, 03:21 AM
Good catch on the alternative tactical use in PvE. Could be very strong to equip both pieces of gear, then use it on yourself. Combine it with some card draw, and you could end up with a pretty potent trick. Though if I'm not mistaken, it'll never be card advantage when done on yourself seeing as you would've drawn the card anyway; it'll just be a method to play your cards for, y'know, free. :-P

Jarric
06-04-2013, 03:44 AM
It could be card advantage .... lets say I target :

http://hex.potion-of-wit.com/img/cards/Uruunaz_Gear_Web.png (http://hex.potion-of-wit.com/card.php?c=57)

And your using his trinket. Say I then magically draw this card on turn 2 ... I just milled 7 cards off my opponents deck and have a 5/5 flying unit in play on turn 2. Turn 3 I attack and provided it goes through I then bring any troops you have in your GY into play thus milling MORE cards off your deck.

Again if you can tutor your own card .... this card could spell some SICK combos in PVE.

jaxsonbateman
06-04-2013, 03:47 AM
Except that's not card advantage from the Omen. That's card advantage from the dragon. ;-) Also, the burying isn't card advantage; the reanimate from their graveyard is. :-3

If they include a tutor in the first set, that's going to make things very powerful. If not, card draw should suffice for the most part. You might have to dig pretty far for the card you want, but there should be quite a few ways to dig between blood and sapphire, which would probably be the best color combo for this idea (purely because of the card draw, though Kraken is a nice target to hit with the Omen aswell).

Jarric
06-04-2013, 03:52 AM
I was referring to the reanimate as the potential for the card Advantage. That early in the game it would be a big one too. Although not likely to happen reliably its still fun to speculate :-P. I was under the impression that Kraken was a card "created" by that 1/1 Mariner guy. Didn't think you could actually get it any other way.

jaxsonbateman
06-04-2013, 03:59 AM
The reanimate isn't the card advantage though; it's card neutrality. You draw the dragon as normal, and you get to put it out for free - you don't get to draw another card off it or anything. The dragon then provides the card advantage.

Don't get me wrong, a turn 2 Uruunaz would be fantastic and devastating, I just like to be accurate with describing what's happening. :-3

Edit: Kraken is a legendary PvP card; it just so happens that it also has a dungeon with it as a story point.

Fireblast
06-04-2013, 05:57 AM
On the draw, turn 2 Uruunaz, opponent's turn 3 : murder, try again :D

About the MtG cards with similar effect, they target ALL occurrences of a card, Omen doesn't!!!

For competitive PvP, it'll only be playable as a sideboard card if there is a combo deck/control deck with a 1-of win condition.
Now don't get me wrong, it's a fun card, but it's not a good card.

~

Kalius
06-04-2013, 09:08 AM
On the draw, turn 2 Uruunaz, opponent's turn 3 : murder, try again :D

About the MtG cards with similar effect, they target ALL occurrences of a card, Omen doesn't!!!

For competitive PvP, it'll only be playable as a sideboard card if there is a combo deck/control deck with a 1-of win condition.
Now don't get me wrong, it's a fun card, but it's not a good card.

~

Not all of them target all of the occurances of that card.

Praetor's Grasp and Seek, for instance, only target 1 card. granted they have a secondary effect, but it's still just 1 card, and for more than 1 mana.

jaxsonbateman
06-04-2013, 09:15 AM
Praetor's Council has different functionality - it actually lets you cast the card, as opposed to just exiling it. Cards like Memoricide and Surgical Extraction don't do that. That different functionality makes all the difference; if Omen of Oblivion selected all the cards it'd probably cost 5 or 6 given that it copies itself (incidentally, that could be a fun target for Doppelgadget).

What card did you mean by Seek? There's no card with that name, and the only cards that start with Seek don't have to do with exiling cards from an opponent's library.

Kalius
06-04-2013, 09:21 AM
Praetor's Council has different functionality - it actually lets you cast the card, as opposed to just exiling it. Cards like Memoricide and Surgical Extraction don't do that. That different functionality makes all the difference; if Omen of Oblivion selected all the cards it'd probably cost 5 or 6 given that it copies itself (incidentally, that could be a fun target for Doppelgadget).

What card did you mean by Seek? There's no card with that name, and the only cards that start with Seek don't have to do with exiling cards from an opponent's library.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=107315&part=Seek

jaxsonbateman
06-04-2013, 09:23 AM
Ah, that's why it didn't come up in MWS; starts with Hide. :-P

Well the lifegain is the obvious reason with that one - O3 would also cost more if it had lifegain attached. :-3 The functionality makes all the difference... though ofc, Hex isn't Magic.

Kalius
06-04-2013, 09:26 AM
Ah, that's why it didn't come up in MWS; starts with Hide. :-P

Well the lifegain is the obvious reason with that one - O3 would also cost more if it had lifegain attached. :-3 The functionality makes all the difference... though ofc, Hex isn't Magic.

This is true. but while it doesn't let you play the card(assuming you had the mana for it), or give you life, it does void an opponent's draw when they would get the card. Sure it's not the greatest card, but it's still pretty good for a 1 mana card to sideboard. and like I said earlier, even a 1 of mainboard isn't bad as it lets you see what's in your opponent's deck.

Madican
06-04-2013, 09:37 AM
I can see Omen being played in EDH PvP, since you only need to target one to erase its presence completely.

jaxsonbateman
06-04-2013, 09:38 AM
Sideboard potential, for sure, though that will depend on the meta. I'd just feel pretty uncomfortable mainboarding it - it'd most likely be card disadvantage just to see their deck, and the odds of actually hitting the card would be fairly slim.

Tyrfang
06-04-2013, 09:40 AM
Overall probably better in PvE with gear than PvP constructed.

Sideboard to screw over a combo deck. Also good in singleton format.

Limited to remove the threat of a single bomb from the game.

jaxsonbateman
06-04-2013, 09:54 AM
Yeah, it could be mainboarded in limited. If anyone's played limited Magic and had their heart sink when they see a must-answer bomb that they just don't have the answer for (my most recent example being Assemble the Legion at the Dragon's Maze prerelease, grumble grumble), sometimes you just have to risk card advantage to prevent you straight up losing. Though you could also start with it safely in the sideboard.

Tyrfang
06-04-2013, 10:27 AM
Unless you're not running a blood deck, I don't know why you would sideboard this in limited.

At worst, you see the opponents remaining deck.

At best, it triggers multiple times, every time denying a draw.

The "best-case" scenario compounded by the fact that limited decks are smaller and have fewer great cards by design.

jaxsonbateman
06-04-2013, 10:34 AM
Going to be personal player preference, as to whether or not they prefer that feeling of security, knowing they've stopped their opponent's best card from causing problems, or whether they prefer not to suffer card disadvantage.

While it's true that stopping your opponent's best card is useful, you'll find some decks don't actually have significant bombs, and just win off the back of good, efficient troops and a collection of strong commons and uncommons.

Myself... if I happened to draft the Omen and was playing Blood I'd probably main board it. But I wouldn't consider it deck misconstruction if another player decided not to, and if I ever get the chance to play around with it in limited I might change my mind, depending on how it works out.

funktion
06-04-2013, 11:04 AM
Yeah, it's not quite the "combo destroyer" you might initially think. Though it does slow them down a bit, especially if they draw it early.

On the other hand, it's totally possible that their combo still goes off and they never even draw this at all...

It's not a bad sideboard card though at all if you're replacing a completely dead card from your deck with this.

LargoLaGrande
06-04-2013, 11:50 AM
Unless you're not running a blood deck, I don't know why you would sideboard this in limited.

At worst, you see the opponents remaining deck.

At best, it triggers multiple times, every time denying a draw.

The "best-case" scenario compounded by the fact that limited decks are smaller and have fewer great cards by design.

The problem with this is that the "best-case" scenario is a Magical Christmas Land scenario. If you play Omen turn 1, and expect the game to go for 13 turns you still only have a 25% chance of them drawing the Omened card in constructed, and about a 30% chance in limited. It gets better if your opponent has a card that you absolutely cannot deal with(or your opponent has a high deck velocity), but you still need to draw and play Omen before they draw their bomb which makes it pretty marginal in limited. 70% of the time it says "discard this card, lose 1 mana". That's not maindeckable.

Fireblast
06-04-2013, 11:54 AM
The problem with this is that the "best-case" scenario is a Magical Christmas Land scenario. If you play Omen turn 1, and expect the game to go for 13 turns you still only have a 25% chance of them drawing the Omened card in constructed, and about a 30% chance in limited. It gets better if your opponent has a card that you absolutely cannot deal with(or your opponent has a high deck velocity), but you still need to draw and play Omen before they draw their bomb which makes it pretty marginal in limited. 70% of the time it says "discard this card, lose 1 mana". That's not maindeckable.

They won't listen, let them buy it for tons of plat at release and waste slots in their decks.

~

Xenavire
06-04-2013, 12:14 PM
They won't listen, let them buy it for tons of plat at release and waste slots in their decks.

~

I kind of agree, but seeing the deck for 1 mana isn't too terrible for control - knowing which threats to deal with can help. Otherwise, it is flawed in the ways you have said - it is only reliable if you could force draw or tutors on your opponent, and even then you are dedicating too much to a sub par effect. If it targeted every instance of the card, it would be pretty broken, but unless your opponent is running a combo using a unique they were stupid enough to only run 1 of, or some other strange occurence, I wouldn't see the use maining it.

stiii
06-04-2013, 12:26 PM
People really love these types of cards no matter how terrible they are.

KnowingCrow
06-04-2013, 12:55 PM
This alongside other cards could make for an interesting strategy of denying your opponent a playable deck. The fact is that if this hits a card your opponent draws, it voids it instead of drawing it. Meaning your opponent is down a draw.

Maybe it's good, maybe it's bad. But I'm totally going to try my own special version of a Pox deck, where instead of destroying your land base to ensure you can't play, I destroy your deck to ensure you can't play.

jaxsonbateman
06-04-2013, 12:56 PM
That sounds like mill tbh. :-P

malloc31
06-07-2013, 08:12 AM
I think people aren't considering the value of your opponent actually drawing the voided card. All the comparable magic cards remove the card from the deck so there is no wasted draw possible. With this card, if they happen to draw it and they are waiting for a combo they will have a pretty much wasted turn. And ya since it is only one card the chances of it working are low so it is not overpowered.

And I don't know what the rarity is but if it is common it could be very powerful in limited if you could get 5 or 6, in a 40 card deck there would be much better chances of you drawing it and them drawing the voided cards. And since every time it activates you can recast it you could eliminate a high percentage of their deck.

Tyrfang
06-07-2013, 08:17 AM
The rarity is Rare (Blue). It's on the card.

It's more powerful in limited, because there's a larger chance of hitting it.

It'd be strong in a deck against an aggro/burn deck, if you also have sabotage to really mess with their draws.

jaxsonbateman
06-07-2013, 08:19 AM
I think people aren't considering the value of your opponent actually drawing the voided card. All the comparable magic cards remove the card from the deck so there is no wasted draw possible. With this card, if they happen to draw it and they are waiting for a combo they will have a pretty much wasted turn. And ya since it is only one card the chances of it working are low so it is not overpowered.

And I don't know what the rarity is but if it is common it could be very powerful in limited if you could get 5 or 6, in a 40 card deck there would be much better chances of you drawing it and them drawing the voided cards. And since every time it activates you can recast it you could eliminate a high percentage of their deck.
Sorry to disappoint; it's rare.

In constructed you might have it in the sideboard to potentially stop a combo deck, depending on what other answers are spoiled between now and release. In limited, it's probably safest to keep it in your side to start, and the only bring it in if your opponent has an absolutely must answer card, and you don't have any better answers. In PvE, the cast-for-free equipment gives it some combo potential, most notably if they end up printing some sort of tutor that can hit a usually-expensive card.

Davladen
06-07-2013, 08:26 AM
I think you guys are also forgetting if the player draws the marked card and has it voided. They just lost a draw step. So if you play this early, you will see their entire deck. Mark a card as void. Which is way better then actually just voiding it. Because now the card stays in their deck giving them the same draw % as you (60 cards in deck). Then when the marked card is drawn, the lose that draw step. This is a solid card in any blood pvp deck. I'd run 4

Davladen
06-07-2013, 08:29 AM
Oh first turn, let me see your entire deck. Thanks. Print Screen. Print. I ain't playin...

Tyrfang
06-07-2013, 08:31 AM
Oh first turn, let me see your entire deck. Thanks. Print Screen. Print. I ain't playin...

Better hope that your tablet has good resolution if you're playing on a tablet...

jaxsonbateman
06-07-2013, 08:33 AM
Seeing a deck isn't that important. In a draft, the deck is, 95% of the time, not going to be so strong that you'll gleam major insight from looking through it. In constructed, if it's a high tier deck, unless it's the very first showing of that deck then you're going to know what's generally in it anyway. I'm pretty sure if you ask most Magic players if they'd play a card in a competitive deck that gave card disadvantage but let you see your opponent's deck, they'd probably say they wouldn't. Though they might (and would) play a card that immediately impact that deck for card disadvantage, like Surgical Extraction.

Sorry I didn't mention about the void-if-draw part of it. Sure, that makes it good... if they draw the card. The problem is, probability says more times than not they won't.

Rayous
06-07-2013, 08:33 AM
I plan on having 4 of these in my PVE Void marauder deck. Since when they trigger they create a new one and auto cast it, the fact that the void marauder also casts the ones you have in your grave yard is just sick. I think this could be very powerful in a raid.

Davladen
06-07-2013, 08:33 AM
I'll never play PvP on a tablet. I will however use my tablet to PvE and deck building

jaxsonbateman
06-07-2013, 08:36 AM
I plan on having 4 of these in my PVE Void marauder deck. Since when they trigger they create a new one and auto cast it, the fact that the void marauder also casts the ones you have in your grave yard is just sick. I think this could be very powerful in a raid.
That could work. It totally seems like a constant, but you're right, it's a basic action. That there has potential.

Bah, we need more spoilers! I'm desperately craving a 1 mana sapphire draw spell. >.<

Davladen
06-07-2013, 08:37 AM
Jaxson I agree with you on the most part. In MtG I knew pretty much what the other person was playing once I saw their land. Then once they actually casted something I knew for sure. But that was because of the metagame. I really have no idea how long it will take for a metagame to form in constructed. And as for limited, this card is not great.

Tyrfang
06-07-2013, 08:39 AM
Speaking of PvE, I wonder how the AI would decide how to use Omen?

jaxsonbateman
06-07-2013, 08:39 AM
Well by all means, if you're more comfortable playing it, do it. Who knows; perhaps while the meta is settling the increased knowledge for it could be handy.

Aradon
06-07-2013, 09:53 AM
In limited, it seems decent. Removal of bombs could be worth the card disadvantage, and with a smaller deck, they have a larger chance of 'drawing' the voided card. Any time this is cast and voided, it'll be card parity and completely worth playing.

In constructed, not worth playing without some sort of combo or synergy. On its own, the odds of them drawing the one you found are just too small, and it doesn't stop combo decks because it targets just one of the four. If you look at MtG, you'll see that the only played cards that remove cards from decks are those that remove all four, and even then they are typically marginal except against combo decks, unless they're generating card parity such as by taking the card out of their hand or exiling it in response to recursion from the graveyard.

I do want to play this all over PvE, though, with the equipment that'll let me play the voided cards, just for fun. Depending on how long raids go, it could be reasonable there too, unless the raid boss has a much larger deck. If he has a recyclable 60 card deck, though, this could be excellent.

Edit: I also want to yell at everyone- looking at their deck is nearly worthless. Stop bringing it up, because it's not nearly worth a card. If there were a card that cost 0 and let you look at their deck, it wouldn't be played, ever. The only advantage of this card is voiding one of their cards. You can just disregard the 'look at their library' entirely.

Mugaaz
06-07-2013, 10:19 AM
Amen Aradon, this card is virtually unplayable. I dont know why people think these cards are so good. Even in corner cases where the meta supports this card being useable, is it going to better than targeted discard, or just plain outracing your opponent?

I would put the over under for the # of copies of the top 8 of the irst major pro tournament at 1.

Xenavire
06-07-2013, 03:09 PM
In limited, it seems decent. Removal of bombs could be worth the card disadvantage, and with a smaller deck, they have a larger chance of 'drawing' the voided card. Any time this is cast and voided, it'll be card parity and completely worth playing.

In constructed, not worth playing without some sort of combo or synergy. On its own, the odds of them drawing the one you found are just too small, and it doesn't stop combo decks because it targets just one of the four. If you look at MtG, you'll see that the only played cards that remove cards from decks are those that remove all four, and even then they are typically marginal except against combo decks, unless they're generating card parity such as by taking the card out of their hand or exiling it in response to recursion from the graveyard.

I do want to play this all over PvE, though, with the equipment that'll let me play the voided cards, just for fun. Depending on how long raids go, it could be reasonable there too, unless the raid boss has a much larger deck. If he has a recyclable 60 card deck, though, this could be excellent.

Edit: I also want to yell at everyone- looking at their deck is nearly worthless. Stop bringing it up, because it's not nearly worth a card. If there were a card that cost 0 and let you look at their deck, it wouldn't be played, ever. The only advantage of this card is voiding one of their cards. You can just disregard the 'look at their library' entirely.

Trust me, knowing the contents of their deck can be a huge advantage - I have played several TCG's where this is true. Just because you don't value it doesn't mean it has no value.

I know plenty of pro players who would run 4 for this very reason.

stiii
06-07-2013, 03:15 PM
Trust me, knowing the contents of their deck can be a huge advantage - I have played several TCG's where this is true. Just because you don't value it doesn't mean it has no value.

I know plenty of pro players who would run 4 for this very reason.

What TCGs are those?

It certainly isn't true in magic, which this game seems very similar to. I guess maybe it is much more different than it looks so I am interested in what structure of game would make this effect worth a card.

Xenavire
06-07-2013, 04:03 PM
Well, I have seen in MTG, but it is less useful, but Yugioh had a few of these cards, and you could pretty successfully set up control cards that would lock out a fair few cards, just by knowing what the player was using. That is of course before the metagame was destroyed.

I cannot think of any current ones that still find these cards useful, but I haven't played many in a while. I did know some high level players who used these kinds of cards, but they always had bonuses attached - I am not sure how useful Omen will be in all honesty.

I do remember a MTG deck that used these - mono blue control I think, but that was about 5-6 years ago. My memory is hazy about the specifics of the deck, but I do remember it cleaning up several FNM's, and the guy took it to regionals, but I never found out how he placed.