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View Full Version : Oh my goodness spectral lotus is soooooo goood.



TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 09:41 PM
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/606/896/1401b1f21813185adbb745b367b6fea0_large.png?1369096 583 Apparently theres going to be 2 equipment slots for it too.

Anyways, its going to cost 0, draw a card, and 3 mana boost for the turn, and then add 3 threshold (probably permanent). So in MTG terms, THIS IS BETTER THEN BLACK LOTUS.


Omg, omg, :D

Shrennan
06-03-2013, 09:43 PM
Not exactly better than Black Lotus (and most definitely not rarer). The Spectral Lotus is a really good PVE card so competitive players need not be scared unless they play competitively in an anything goes format.

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 09:44 PM
WOOOW that equipment, free winds of change on top of your cantripping black lotus... WHHAT.

LordRaven
06-03-2013, 09:44 PM
Yes, but the catch is that it eats itself forever when you use it. Not saying it isn't great (I stacked DC and King mostly to get 2) but it won't be worth Black Lotus type values...

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 09:44 PM
Not exactly better than Black Lotus (and most definitely not rarer). The Spectral Lotus is a really good PVE card so competitive players need not be scared unless they play competitively in an anything goes format.


Its much better then black lotus!!
But PvE only!

Avedecus
06-03-2013, 09:44 PM
I have a feeling there will be a lot of pve cards that are "better than black lotus". Should be fun.

Evilgm
06-03-2013, 09:44 PM
It was one of the first cards spoiled. It's primarily balanced around the fact that it's PvE only, and PvE doesn't have to be fair- the AI decks can be much tougher than anything we can build, so more powerful cards can be printed for it without unbalancing regular (PvP) play.

And the four equipment are two for the Lotus and two for the Tiger.

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 09:45 PM
Yes, but the catch is that it eats itself forever when you use it. Not saying it isn't great (I stacked DC and King mostly to get 2) but it won't be worth Black Lotus type values...

Yeah so its more like blacker lotus, but with more power lol...

Stok3d
06-03-2013, 09:46 PM
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/606/896/1401b1f21813185adbb745b367b6fea0_large.png?1369096 583

Just for clarification, the use action gives you 3mana (Makes sense knowing the Black Lotus)? I thought it was [+3attack / 0 Def] to a creature, and the 3 [THRESHOLD] is what exactly? Now the Black Tiger, you get a creature out of it or does the Black Tiger card now appear in your hand?

Sadly, I've never 100% understood this card.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130516113749/hextcg/images/thumb/0/0e/Black_Tiger.png/300px-Black_Tiger.png

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 09:47 PM
It was one of the first cards spoiled. It's primarily balanced around the fact that it's PvE only, and PvE doesn't have to be fair- the AI decks can be much tougher than anything we can build, so more powerful cards can be printed for it without unbalancing regular (PvP) play.

And the four equipment are two for the Lotus and two for the Tiger.


I imagine people are not going to want to burn their daily "black lotus" for Wild Wild West "PvP" matches, unless its a prize tourney. I also have a feeling some Wild Wild West games will have a player made blacklist of stuff you cant use, which probably will include lotus.

Shrennan
06-03-2013, 09:47 PM
Its much better then black lotus!!
But PvE only!

That's why I said not exactly haha

I would rather have the Black Lotus to use competitively than the Spectral Lotus to use non-competitively. Power-wise, you are correct though. It was smart to reference the mythical Black Lotus card from Magic, make it even more awesome, but limit it severely in a non-competitive scene.

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 09:48 PM
NOT To mention, you can even use the free mana to cast Tiger and draw another card. Wow this card is nutz, defitally going to have to get king somehow.

DjiN
06-03-2013, 09:53 PM
It adds permanent threshhold 3?

maniza
06-03-2013, 09:54 PM
it has been said before pve cards will be a bit over the top but not realy alot better than pvp the lotus garden is the rarest kickstarter exclusive card and the expectral lotus is most likely one of the most powerful pve cards even if you can only use it once.

DjiN
06-03-2013, 09:56 PM
going nuts on collectors tier then. who cares on dungeon crawler if I can have 3 lotus each day? omg

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 09:59 PM
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/606/896/1401b1f21813185adbb745b367b6fea0_large.png?1369096 583

Just for clarification, the use action gives you 3mana (Makes sense knowing the Black Lotus)? I thought it was [+3attack / 0 Def] to a creature, and the 3 [THRESHOLD] is what exactly? Now the Black Tiger, you get a creature out of it or does the Black Tiger card now appear in your hand?

Sadly, I've never 100% understood this card.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130516113749/hextcg/images/thumb/0/0e/Black_Tiger.png/300px-Black_Tiger.png

Watch the how to play video.
When you play a resource you get,
1 mana
1 charge
1 threshold

Mana is what you use to cast spells, represented with like 5/5 mana total.
Threhold is what color of mana you have. If you have 2 ruby threshold, you may cast anything in your hand that has a 2 ruby threshold cost. So if you have 5 mana, you can cast Two cards that cost 2 and have 2 ruby threshold (like ragefire) and then use the last mana to cast something like burn. Keep in mind that you only need 2 ruby threshold to do this, the other 3 threshold could be something like wild.
Charge is just used to use your champion powers, as seen in the how to play video.

So with this lotus, you can use it to gain 3 sapphire threshold and pretty much cast anything that requires sapphire threshold for the rest of the game! And the 3/0 does not say creature or mana, but I strongly think its referring to mana, and I am sure everyone agrees since its a black lotus reference. And yes the black tiger will appear in your hand, and the lotus will disappear forever.

Showsni
06-03-2013, 10:02 PM
It's a cantripping Black Lotus that leaves behind a 3/1 cantripping creature for 3 just in case you want to play that. And gets even more nuts with the equipment; gains 2 life and refreshes your hand. Obviously, there's no reason not to run four in just about every deck; except for the fact it's one time use only.

I mean, it can't combo with Auriok Salvagers. But it's an amazing card.

Of course, you don't even have to use the ability; just keep four of them in your deck, and you're suddenly running a 56 card deck. Which combos with all the "affinity for artifact" type effects we've seen the dwarves have.

(Not sure what would happen if you try to change doppelgadget into a lotus... Does it end up stuck as a tiger?)

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 10:03 PM
It adds permanent threshhold 3?

It doesnt say till end of turn. It would make sense for it to be temporary, and the card would be slightly less insane if it was.

ForgedSol
06-03-2013, 10:04 PM
Mana is displayed as [Current/Max]. So by adding [3/0] it will give you three temporary mana, but it will not change the "max" total your mana resets to at the beginning of each turn.

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 10:04 PM
Screw raid leader guys you will be better off just spamming these every raidfight lol.

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 10:06 PM
Then again raidleader helps you draw it, dont get me wrong raidlead is completly insane.

+1 card for party and free fog, + bit of lifegain... jeesh. And you get a lotus garden too. Raid leader is way to go but collector would be nice for more garden.

BossHoss
06-03-2013, 10:08 PM
Spectral Lotus

Draw a card when it enters play

Exhaust (does not have troop trauma as it is an artifact and can be exhausted the turn it enters play)
Gain [3/0] (gain 3 mana and 0 charge power for champion)
Gain 3 [Threshold] (gain 3 threshold ex. 1 ruby, 1 sapphire and 1 wild or 2 diamond, 1 blood)
Return to your hand and then transform into Black Tiger for good

So ya... This card is even more insane then you think it is

DjiN
06-03-2013, 10:08 PM
RaidLeader is ony for raids not for dungeons. It totally sux in my opinion.

Derium
06-03-2013, 10:08 PM
I like the fact you can just play it, cantrip and any other bonus you want without popping it. So if you don't wanna buy more off the AH, just play it for free, gain two life, draw a card and go. Nothing like turning a 60 card deck into a 56 card deck with no drawback.

DjiN
06-03-2013, 10:10 PM
Spectral Lotus

Draw a card when it enters play

Exhaust (does not have troop trauma as it is an artifact and can be exhausted the turn it enters play)
Gain [3/0] (gain 3 mana and 0 charge power for champion)
Gain 3 [Threshold] (gain 3 threshold ex. 1 ruby, 1 sapphire and 1 wild or 2 diamond, 1 blood)
Return to your hand and then transform into Black Tiger for good

So ya... This card is even more insane then you think it is

Thanks for clearing this up. But max mana is not linked to your threshold? I thought the threshold also determines how much mana you get.

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 10:12 PM
Thanks for clearing this up. But max mana is not linked to your threshold? I thought the threshold also determines how much mana you get.


Threshold just determins if you can cast the spell based on color.

Example, if you have 10 mana, and 9 sapphire threshold / 1 ruby threshold, you can have 7 cards in hand requiring 2 ruby threshold and unable to cast.

Now if you get a ruby resource, you now have 2 ruby threshold and can possibly unload all 7 cards.

Derium
06-03-2013, 10:12 PM
Thanks for clearing this up. But max mana is not linked to your threshold? I thought the threshold also determines how much mana you get.

Threshold determines what you can cast. Let's say you reduce a 3 casting cost card to 1. But it has threshold 2. You can't cast it no matter how much mana you have, until you also have threshold 2+

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 10:13 PM
RaidLeader is ony for raids not for dungeons. It totally sux in my opinion.

BUtttt for the raidfights its going to be extremely bonkers to have a raidleader in party, let alone multiples.

DjiN
06-03-2013, 10:14 PM
.... I understand that easy point of the system thanks... whats not clear is what increases the amount of mana you have at your disposal.

ForgedSol
06-03-2013, 10:15 PM
Spectral Lotus

Draw a card when it enters play

Exhaust (does not have troop trauma as it is an artifact and can be exhausted the turn it enters play)
Gain [3/0] (gain 3 mana and 0 charge power for champion)
Gain 3 [Threshold] (gain 3 threshold ex. 1 ruby, 1 sapphire and 1 wild or 2 diamond, 1 blood)
Return to your hand and then transform into Black Tiger for good

So ya... This card is even more insane then you think it is

Are you sure that means 0 for charge and not 0 for increasing your max mana? Since there are no physical lands in play to show your total mana, I'm pretty sure that means "Add three temporary mana to your mana pool, but do not increase max mana count."

DjiN
06-03-2013, 10:15 PM
BUtttt for the raidfights its going to be extremely bonkers to have a raidleader in party, let alone multiples.

As soon as you get into tournament raids and dont have the +1 card anymore you will remember this day.

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 10:15 PM
Spectral Lotus

Draw a card when it enters play

Exhaust (does not have troop trauma as it is an artifact and can be exhausted the turn it enters play)
Gain [3/0] (gain 3 mana and 0 charge power for champion)
Gain 3 [Threshold] (gain 3 threshold ex. 1 ruby, 1 sapphire and 1 wild or 2 diamond, 1 blood)
Return to your hand and then transform into Black Tiger for good

So ya... This card is even more insane then you think it is

Yes its like 100 times better then black lotus based on power. And you get 1 a day starting with king, and collectors get x2 a day. So if you save up you will have a nice stockpile to freaking destroy hard bosses.

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 10:17 PM
Are you sure that means 0 for charge and not 0 for increasing your max mana?

I read 3/0 as +3 to current mana and +0 to max mana (the amount your mana is reset to next turn). Needs a bit of clarification.

BenRGamer
06-03-2013, 10:20 PM
Yes, but the catch is that it eats itself forever when you use it. Not saying it isn't great (I stacked DC and King mostly to get 2) but it won't be worth Black Lotus type values...

I believe the Collector gets two Spectral Lotus Gardens on it's own.

BossHoss
06-03-2013, 10:21 PM
Are you sure that means 0 for charge and not 0 for increasing your max mana?

I don't have any proof from CZE but here is my analysis...

Play a resource and gain [1/1] plus one threshold...
- this could mean either but I think it leans towards my thoughts simply because threshold itself is your max mana... If spectral lotus granted 3 charge power on your first turn it would be too broken. Please ask if you don't understand... had a 12 hour drive today and just got back so words don't work for explaining...

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 10:24 PM
I don't have any proof from CZE but here is my analysis...

Play a resource and gain [1/1] plus one threshold...
- this could mean either but I think it leans towards my thoughts simply because threshold itself is your max mana... If spectral lotus granted 3 charge power on your first turn it would be too broken. Please ask if you don't understand... had a 12 hour drive today and just got back so words don't work for explaining...


No it makes sense your way too, but that would mean its more like a cantriping Gilded Lotus that cannot be stopped for 0 mana and giving you a cantriping 3/1 creature for 3.

Oh and with equipment you get a free self only wheel of fortune as well, while not having to discard everything.

BossHoss
06-03-2013, 10:25 PM
I don't have any proof from CZE but here is my analysis...

Play a resource and gain [1/1] plus one threshold...
- this could mean either but I think it leans towards my thoughts simply because threshold itself is your max mana... If spectral lotus granted 3 charge power on your first turn it would be too broken. Please ask if you don't understand... had a 12 hour drive today and just got back so words don't work for explaining...

I might as well have slammed my head against the keyboard and would have come up with a better description! This is totally worth an official CZE HELP ME thread.... I want to know if Im going to get my kids 4 kings for their accounts lol

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 10:31 PM
threshold itself is your max mana...

Threshold is already confirmed for its exact function. If you have 2 ruby threshold you are now able to cast anything with 2 ruby threshold cost, if you can afford the mana cost. Watch the how to play video can be found on the hex kickstarter page near the top.

Tsubakixv
06-03-2013, 10:31 PM
I was watching the live stream and it was asked but they never answered. Does Collector tier give 2 spectral gardens?

Gwaer
06-03-2013, 10:32 PM
I might as well have slammed my head against the keyboard and would have come up with a better description! This is totally worth an official CZE HELP ME thread.... I want to know if Im going to get my kids 4 kings for their accounts lol

I'll just take a producer, please... Dad... =)

TheDiv
06-03-2013, 10:33 PM
I was watching the live stream and it was asked but they never answered. Does Collector tier give 2 spectral gardens?

They said they are going to check what they've said in the past and get back to us. Hopefully they cover this in the next update or tomorrows stream!

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 10:34 PM
I was watching the live stream and it was asked but they never answered. Does Collector tier give 2 spectral gardens?


Yeah, it says an extra set of ALL exclusive cards from the king level.
Garden is an exclusive card from the king level.

Tsubakixv
06-03-2013, 10:34 PM
Alrighty I'll hold off pledging until then thanks!

ForgedSol
06-03-2013, 10:35 PM
Oh what? I didn't even know this was a question. I thought for sure that meant collector's get two.

TheDiv
06-03-2013, 10:37 PM
Oh what? I didn't even know this was a question. I thought for sure that meant collector's get two.

I did too until they hesitated at the question on the stream.

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 10:38 PM
Oh what? I didn't even know this was a question. I thought for sure that meant collector's get two.
Yeah they definitely do. It says you get an extra set of all exclusive cards from the king.
Lotus garden IS an exclusive card from the king.

Exclusive = can only get from kickstarter.

Though all of the PvP exclusive you can get elsewhere, but you cannot get the kickstarter exclusive art.

Gwaer
06-03-2013, 10:39 PM
Pretty sure they just got confused with all the stuff that has been said. There's no question of this.

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 10:40 PM
I did too until they hesitated at the question on the stream.

Maybe just overwhelmed? I didnt watch the stream lol. But its common sense in black and white letters that they are getting another lotus garden.

BenRGamer
06-03-2013, 10:41 PM
I was watching the live stream and it was asked but they never answered. Does Collector tier give 2 spectral gardens?

Look at the reward tables, the Collector tier gets [An Extra Set of All Exclusive Cards From The King Level], while the Stretch Goal Reward says '+1 Additional Copy of Every Kickstarter Exclusive PvE Card (Except Spectral Lotus)'

See a difference there?

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 10:43 PM
I think all the PvE cards from kickstarter you can only get by kickstarting..
Because all of the PvP cards specifically say Alternative Art.

Tsubakixv
06-03-2013, 10:44 PM
Maybe just overwhelmed? I didnt watch the stream lol. But its common sense in black and white letters that they are getting another lotus garden.

You would think this would be the case but I've been apart of a lot of kickstarters where this wasn't true. Which is why I hesitated to dive right into it after watching the recent stream where they hesitated to answer it. Either way if this isn't answered by tomorrow I'll probably just pledge anyways because even in the rare scenario they alter the wording on that tier there's still plenty of value for it to be worth it in my eyes. Thanks for the help fellas!

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 10:47 PM
You would think this would be the case but I've been apart of a lot of kickstarters where this wasn't true. Which is why I hesitated to dive right into it after watching the recent stream where they hesitated to answer it.

They definitely are, its pretty clear from reading the collector tier reward you get an additional lotus garden.

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 10:49 PM
Its going to be the most powerful PvE card in the game for sure, and meant to be used when you get stuck on boss fights. The only balance is one time use per lotus and limit 1 lotus added a day unless your collector.

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 10:54 PM
Sooo lets recap once more.

Black lotus + Draw card / Wheel of Fortune stapled on.

TheDiv
06-03-2013, 11:01 PM
Its going to be the most powerful PvE card in the game for sure, and meant to be used when you get stuck on boss fights. The only balance is one time use per lotus and limit 1 lotus added a day unless your collector.

Not only that, but you can use it to effectively be a 56-card deck. If you have 60 cards, 4 of which are these, whenever you draw one, just play it instantly for the "Draw a Card" but don't activate its ability. I'm gonna be running 4 of these in every one of my PvE decks just for that :D

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 11:02 PM
Of course, you don't even have to use the ability; just keep four of them in your deck, and you're suddenly running a 56 card deck. Which combos with all the "affinity for artifact" type effects we've seen the dwarves have.



Yeah Just using the lotus to draw a card, add to your artifact count, and gain 2 life would be very strong with dwarves.
I am definitely going dwarves now and then I could sell extra lotus on the market :D

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 11:03 PM
Not only that, but you can use it to effectively be a 56-card deck. If you have 60 cards, 4 of which are these, whenever you draw one, just play it instantly for the "Draw a Card" but don't activate its ability. I'm gonna be running 4 of these in every one of my PvE decks just for that :D


Yeah Just quoted an early post on that. Going to be very strong with dwarves and the +2 life equipment would be worth considering, but even without add to artifact count and draw for free.

Then you can sell the excess lotus for profit! :D

BenRGamer
06-03-2013, 11:04 PM
Heck, with an equipment, it even becomes a free heal. And the Tiger can get Lifedrain with another.

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 11:06 PM
Heck, with an equipment, it even becomes a free heal. And the Tiger can get Lifedrain with another.

This card is the reason I am going king over champion :D

sukebe
06-03-2013, 11:12 PM
just to be clear, they have gone over how the resource system in this game works. From what they have said, and what we have seen, when a card shows [x/y] it means you gain x resources to spend that turn and increase the resources you start with every turn by y. when you play a resource that charges your champion gets is shown next to the champions portrait. When a card increases your champions charge, it will say "charge your champion" as seen on the Charge Bot card.

Hope that cleared things up a bit :-)

*quickly edited for spelling/grammar errors

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 11:14 PM
just to be clear, they have gone over how the resource system in this game works. From what they have said, and what we have seen, when a card shows [x/y] it means you gain x resources to spend that turn and increase the resources you start with every turn by y. when you play a resource the charge your champion gets is shown next to the champions portrait. When a card increases your champions charge, it will say "charge your champion" as seen on the Charge Bot card.

Hope that cleared things up a bit :-)

Yes it does, thanks very much.

Also I missed all of the twitch streams, anyplace where I can rewatch them or no?

sukebe
06-03-2013, 11:16 PM
you can watch one of them here: http://www.twitch.tv/hextcg just click the "videos" button on the top right corner.

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 11:18 PM
you can watch one of them here: http://www.twitch.tv/hextcg just click the "videos" button on the top right corner.

Awesome thanks much.

Rapkannibale
06-03-2013, 11:26 PM
just to be clear, they have gone over how the resource system in this game works. From what they have said, and what we have seen, when a card shows [x/y] it means you gain x resources to spend that turn and increase the resources you start with every turn by y. when you play a resource that charges your champion gets is shown next to the champions portrait. When a card increases your champions charge, it will say "charge your champion" as seen on the Charge Bot card.

Hope that cleared things up a bit :-)

*quickly edited for spelling/grammar errors

I'm actually confused now. I was pretty sure that the Y in there stands for the number of charges your champion gets. So basic resources say [1/1] which means you get one resource and one charge for your champion, plus one threshold of the appropriate shard.

And while I do agree Lotus is awesome, it is a PvE card so it can afford to be really powerful without messing up the competitive environment. :)

sukebe
06-03-2013, 11:29 PM
I understand your confusion, but according to the videos (just check out the how to play video on the KS page) the Y in my example does indeed show the mana you start with when your turn begins. Your champions charge is shown to the lower right of the champions image

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 11:33 PM
I see what you mean about them being hesitant in the about the collector tier getting another lotus garden.

But I am sure this is just from them not recalling 100% off top of head and forgetting.


Collector
Everything from the King tier.
6 NEW Alternate Art PVP cards per year, exclusive to “the Collector” Tier for life of the game.
“The Collector” exclusive Deck Customizable Sleeves.
**A second set of all exclusive cards from the King level.**

King
4 Starter Decks (40.00 value).
150 Booster Packs (300.00 value).

Kickstarter Exclusive Alternate Art PVP cards: Replicator’s Gambit, Princess Victoria, Extinction, Ragefire and Pack Raptor.

Kickstarter Exclusive PVE Champions: Zoltog, Burgamot Ebonrock, Mooof, Mephistophelius, Monkey of the Nine Tails, Glorfenblort, Bebo, Cardboard Tube Samurai and Aethynia.

Kickstarter Exclusive PVE Cards: Lady Cassandra, Void Marauder, Prospero, Sylvan Enchanter, Scourge Knight, The Wrath of Zakiir, Orson’s Dream, Spectral Assassin, Moment of Glory, Ninja Training, The Crowd Roars! and Spectral Lotus Garden.

Kickstarter Exclusive Deck Customizable Sleeves: Warrior, Captain, Knight, Champion and King.

Digital Art Book “The Art of HEX” PDF format.
Name in the credits as Kickstarter Backer.
HEX MMO TCG beta invite.



So clearly you do get another garden, under contract!! Or else they would specify that garden is excluded from this reward!! Similar to how they do that with the stretch goal bonus for 660k, they say +1 Additional copy of every Exclusive PvE card (excluding spectral lotus garden)

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/636/280/e315a0066317c896acd412e1dad77924_large.jpg?1370054 457

ForgedSol
06-03-2013, 11:37 PM
I do think it is rather inelegant that they have to show it as [Mana /Max Mana] because it reveals the pure numbers game without disguising it in any coat of flavor like Land cards show. But it does save board space, and allows the creation of a card that destroys or bounces all/any "permanents" that won't target your resources.

I'm pretty sure I've seen a card that adds [+0/+1], which means in Magic that the land is coming into play [edit] tapped.

(whoops left out that important word)

wallofomens
06-03-2013, 11:38 PM
I've gotta say, I dislike this card a lot. Probably my least favourite thing about HEX. The whole notion of it being so powerful, only exclusive to kickstarter players AND being a one time use thing is kind of unacceptable to me. The only way I'll be using it is to thin out my PvE decks.

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 11:42 PM
I've gotta say, I dislike this card a lot. Probably my least favourite thing about HEX. The whole notion of it being so powerful, only exclusive to kickstarter players AND being a one time use thing is kind of unacceptable to me. The only way I'll be using it is to thin out my PvE decks.


Well its PvE exclusive, and you are all about the PvP from what I have gathered!
So this card doesnt really effect you friend :D

I am sure you can complete the campaign without it, and when you get stuck enjoy the challenge instead of getting nearly a "Free win" by burning your lotus. Just imagine if you used lotus and ended up losing the game though, that would be frustrating lol.

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 11:45 PM
being a one time use .

Well I am not sure if you caught it, but you get a Lotus Garden card which gives you +1 spectral lotus once a day when you log in for the first time. So its not really a 1 time use, but very limited.

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 11:45 PM
I'm pretty sure I've seen a card that adds [+0/+1], which means in Magic that the land is coming into play.

*tapped*

ForgedSol
06-03-2013, 11:47 PM
*tapped*

Whoops! I thought it, but it looks like I didn't type it. Fixed the post.

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 11:47 PM
Whoops! I thought it, but it looks like I didn't type it. Fixed the post.

^_^

wallofomens
06-03-2013, 11:52 PM
Well its PvE exclusive, and you are all about the PvP from what I have gathered!
So this card doesnt really effect you friend :D

I am sure you can complete the campaign without it, and when you get stuck enjoy the challenge instead of getting nearly a "Free win" by burning your lotus. Just imagine if you used lotus and ended up losing the game though, that would be frustrating lol.

No, no, no.. I know it is a PvE only card. And I am indeed mostly interested in the PvP side of the game, but will be playing some PvE, now that we've learnt that there is a hardmode only allowing EDH decks.

I guess you are right about using it only when you are stuck, but I just dislike the idea of something disappearing in my deck. I like building a deck with specific cards in it, and using the card once a day and then switching to the deck without the card is ... well, I don't like it. :) That's why I'll just be using 4 of them in my decks in order to thin them down to 56 cards, to even greater effect in dwarf/artifact decks.

And yes, my wording was not great - I meant limited, not one time use. :)

TheWrathofShane
06-03-2013, 11:54 PM
No, no, no.. I know it is a PvE only card. And I am indeed mostly interested in the PvP side of the game, but will be playing some PvE, now that we've learnt that there is a hardmode only allowing EDH decks.

I guess you are right about using it only when you are stuck, but I just dislike the idea of something disappearing in my deck. I like building a deck with specific cards in it, and using the card once a day and then switching to the deck without the card is ... well, I don't like it. :) That's why I'll just be using 4 of them in my decks in order to thin them down to 56 cards, to even greater effect in dwarf/artifact decks.

And yes, my wording was not great - I meant limited, not one time use. :)


Yeah its not something you want to put "maindeck" for every match, though you verywell could and just burn one on boss fights, that sounds like a great idea actually. And like you said the dwarf nation is celebrating greatly over the lotus.

Gwaer
06-04-2013, 12:02 AM
Also, you won't be using 4 of them in hard mode. 1 of each card cap.

BenRGamer
06-04-2013, 12:19 AM
I wonder how many Black Tigers will be floating around out there in a year.

Gwaer
06-04-2013, 12:21 AM
I wonder how many Black Tigers will be floating around out there in a year.
(people with lotus gardens can turn 4 black tigers back into a spectral lotus(That's a secret though, shhhhh))

jaxsonbateman
06-04-2013, 12:28 AM
Haven't read most of the thread, but a lot of decks will be happy to put 4 Lotuses in and not activate them, just to reduce their deck down to pseudo-56 cards. Really depends on the deck whether that's what you want to do or not, but often it'll be a good choice. You also have the option to use them as an oh-sheet button if something starts going awry, and if you're facing a very hard boss in a dungeon or a raid, chuck on the legendary equipment, put them in a combo deck and just devastate.

They're fantastic, but given their limited availability you don't want to use them willy nilly.

TZHX
06-04-2013, 12:57 AM
What happens to the equipment when the Lotus changes into a tiger? Does it move with it? Revert to your collection? Disappear?

jaxsonbateman
06-04-2013, 01:01 AM
You equip equipment to yourself. It'll stay equipped, and won't be affected by the card transforming.

TZHX
06-04-2013, 01:24 AM
Ah, OK. Cool --I must have missed that somewhere.

Fireblast
06-04-2013, 02:07 AM
[+3/+0] means 3 mana to use this turn and +0 to max mana (that replenish at the start of your turn)
3 [THRESHOLD] means 3 of the same shard.

The basic resource cards do :
[+1/+1] (1 mana to spend, 1 max mana)
[THRESHOLD]
Charge your champion

A spoiled non basic resource card do :
[+0/+1] (1 max mana, equivalent to comes into play tapped from MtG)
Add a [THRESHOLD] of your choice
Charge your champion

What we DON'T know is when are the temporary mana reseted, I mean if I have [10/5] and I don't spend it, when does it reset to [5/5]?

~

jaxsonbateman
06-04-2013, 02:20 AM
Well the Ritualist of the Spring Litter gives you mana at the start of your turn (assuming prep step), so I'd imagine it lasts at least for your turn. Wouldn't be surprised if it lasts a whole turn cycle, but afaik that's unconfirmed at this point.

Arbiter
06-04-2013, 02:54 AM
Given that Dungeons can take 5 hours and when you lose three times you have to start again, I think you would always want 4 of these in your dungeon deck. It could turn a loss into a win, at some point, and if it is never needed, it never hurts you having it in.

Hopefully you never need it, but if it saves you 5 hours, it will be a card well spent.

LexC
06-04-2013, 02:55 AM
I wonder how many Black Tigers will be floating around out there in a year.

I dunno, I havn't looked in to Crafing properly yet but from what I understand we can consume cards and use them to make something else? So the question is how many unwanted cards are going to be used this way instead of sold on the AH for pennies?

jaxsonbateman
06-04-2013, 03:07 AM
Black Tigers will almost certainly be retained by Garden-holders to turn back into Spectral Lotuses. The question is, for those players that don't have Gardens and have to purchase Spectral Lotuses, how much will a Black Tiger sell for on the AH? And the answer is likely a tiny bit less than 1/4 of the cost of a Lotus.

Rapkannibale
06-04-2013, 03:48 AM
[+3/+0] means 3 mana to use this turn and +0 to max mana (that replenish at the start of your turn)
3 [THRESHOLD] means 3 of the same shard.

The basic resource cards do :
[+1/+1] (1 mana to spend, 1 max mana)
[THRESHOLD]
Charge your champion

A spoiled non basic resource card do :
[+0/+1] (1 max mana, equivalent to comes into play tapped from MtG)
Add a [THRESHOLD] of your choice
Charge your champion

What we DON'T know is when are the temporary mana reseted, I mean if I have [10/5] and I don't spend it, when does it reset to [5/5]?

~

Thanks for the thorough explanation. :)

LexC
06-04-2013, 07:06 AM
Black Tigers will almost certainly be retained by Garden-holders to turn back into Spectral Lotuses...

Really? I thought it's a permenant transformation to the Black Tiger?!

jaxsonbateman
06-04-2013, 07:10 AM
Really? I thought it's a permenant transformation to the Black Tiger?!
It is, sort of. People with a Garden can exchange 4 Tigers for one Lotus though.

Turtlewing
06-04-2013, 07:31 AM
Black Tigers will almost certainly be retained by Garden-holders to turn back into Spectral Lotuses. The question is, for those players that don't have Gardens and have to purchase Spectral Lotuses, how much will a Black Tiger sell for on the AH? And the answer is likely a tiny bit less than 1/4 of the cost of a Lotus.

The tiger's price will be at least 1/4 the cost of a lotus (lower than that will get scooped converted and relisted as lotuses), and at most equal to the cost of a lotus (above that and you'd buy the lotus instead).

TheWrathofShane
06-04-2013, 07:34 AM
[+3/+0] means 3 mana to use this turn and +0 to max mana (that replenish at the start of your turn)
3 [THRESHOLD] means 3 of the same shard.

The basic resource cards do :
[+1/+1] (1 mana to spend, 1 max mana)
[THRESHOLD]
Charge your champion

A spoiled non basic resource card do :
[+0/+1] (1 max mana, equivalent to comes into play tapped from MtG)
Add a [THRESHOLD] of your choice
Charge your champion

What we DON'T know is when are the temporary mana reseted, I mean if I have [10/5] and I don't spend it, when does it reset to [5/5]?

~

Great insight thanks for sharing.


I would assume at the start of your next turn, so there is room to spend at end of opponents turn on instants, but no room to spend on your turn.

Then again could also be just be until the end of your turn.

Motjida
06-04-2013, 11:51 AM
Hi all,

I noticed in the livestream yesterday that there seemed to be some confusion with regards to Spectral Lotus Garden.
I asked Cryptozoic how many Lotus Gardens a collector or GK would get a while back, here is the response:

Question: http://imgur.com/X4hSMIe
Answer: http://imgur.com/s68YcMJ

Hopefully they'll stick to that answer :-)

larryhl
06-04-2013, 11:55 AM
Hi all,

I noticed in the livestream yesterday that there seemed to be some confusion with regards to Spectral Lotus Garden.
I asked Cryptozoic how many Lotus Gardens a collector or GK would get a while back, here is the response:

Question: http://imgur.com/X4hSMIe
Answer: http://imgur.com/s68YcMJ

Hopefully they'll stick to that answer :-)

Nice.

Lochar
06-04-2013, 11:57 AM
Hi all,

I noticed in the livestream yesterday that there seemed to be some confusion with regards to Spectral Lotus Garden.
I asked Cryptozoic how many Lotus Gardens a collector or GK would get a while back, here is the response:

Question: http://imgur.com/X4hSMIe
Answer: http://imgur.com/s68YcMJ

Hopefully they'll stick to that answer :-)

*hugs*

Almazy
06-04-2013, 11:59 AM
How strong was black lotus?

jaxsonbateman
06-04-2013, 12:07 PM
How strong was black lotus?
Insane. It's played in most competitive vintage decks. A 3 mana burst that's available in any deck and is usable on turn 1 is just a massive tempo boost.

Omniloathe
06-04-2013, 12:09 PM
How strong was black lotus?

allows for 1 turn kill

Lochar
06-04-2013, 12:10 PM
Black Lotus, Channel, Fireball.

I have one life left, you have none. Have a good day sir.

Xenavire
06-04-2013, 12:10 PM
Insane. It's played in most competitive vintage decks. A 3 mana burst that's available in any deck and is usable on turn 1 is just a massive tempo boost.

It is also a key component to several (if not all) one turn kill decks. Channel fireball for example. It is probably the best card in MTG when you pair it with any other good card (it has automatic synergy with almost everything.)

BenRGamer
06-04-2013, 12:12 PM
Most of the time, I don't plan on actually using the Lotus in my decks. Just playing it for the free draw, and with the equipment that makes it a heal.

Almazy
06-04-2013, 12:13 PM
Insane. It's played in most competitive vintage decks. A 3 mana burst that's available in any deck and is usable on turn 1 is just a massive tempo boost.Why was this allowed? I personally lose interest when there's a "choice" to have a certain item in a competitive game, but at the same time it's THE requirement in a competitive game.

BenRGamer
06-04-2013, 12:16 PM
Why was this allowed? I personally lose interest when there's a "choice" to have a certain item in a competitive game, but at the same time it's THE requirement in a competitive game.

I believe it was one of the first cards produced--Magic made alot of mistakes when starting out. Moxes and Black Lotuses were among the most powerful.

As for in this game, it's PvE, so you won't be able to use it competitively except for the anything goes format/

Xenavire
06-04-2013, 12:16 PM
Why was this allowed? I personally lose interest when there's a "choice" to have a certain item in a competitive game, but at the same time it's THE requirement in a competitive game.

It was quickly removed from competetive formats for the most part. You can't just rock up to worlds running 4 these days, you have to use the current block (and I doubt they will ever reprint anything except promo's.)

larryhl
06-04-2013, 12:17 PM
Have you ever heard of Power Nine? Yeah MtG had some ridiculous early print cards.

Xenavire
06-04-2013, 12:23 PM
What was it, 5 moxes, time walk, black lotus, and a couple of others? Pretty much all of them became required in some decks or were broken win conditions.

ForgedSol
06-04-2013, 12:23 PM
Why was this allowed? I personally lose interest when there's a "choice" to have a certain item in a competitive game, but at the same time it's THE requirement in a competitive game.

The full reason is that they had no idea how big Magic would be when they started. They thought that at most, people would buy a starter and a couple booster packs and that was it. $20-$30. That seemed reasonable. So they knowingly put in some powerful cards in there because they wanted to create some randomness in the experience, and have a game where you'd hear stories about some guy two schools over opening this crazy card that did this or that.

Instead what they got was an unimaginable success where people spend thousands of dollars, and people actually hunted down rare copies of cards to put in their decks and they had to adjust the rules to accommodate the success of the game, like create a rule where you could only put up to four copies of any single card in a deck. (That rule did not originally exist, but why would it need to be there if no one ever bought more than $20 of product.)

Almazy
06-04-2013, 12:23 PM
Ooo, so that's the point the devs were trying to make when they felt it's smarter to starter out with a huge selection of cards and 2 years of balance.



The full reason is that they had no idea how big Magic would be when they started. They thought that at most, people would buy a starter and a couple booster packs and that was it. $20-$30. That seemed reasonable. So they knowingly put in some powerful cards in there because they wanted to create some randomness in the experience, and have a game where you'd hear stories about some guy two schools over opening this crazy card that did this or that.

Instead what they got was an unimaginable success where people spend thousands of dollars, and people actually hunted down rare copies of cards to put in their decks and they had to adjust to accommodate, like create a rule where you could only put up to four copies of any single card in a deck. (That rule did not originally exist, but why would it need to be there if no one ever bought more than $20 of product.)Oh, would it better if different cards had different limits? Like one card has a limit of 1, another has a limit of 3, and most cards have a limit of 4.

jaxsonbateman
06-04-2013, 12:26 PM
It's still legal in vintage - the format that encompasses the most sets and cards, and thus the most 'powerful' format - but you can only have one of them in your deck. The power 9 are the cards considered the 9 most powerful ever printed (though there are some other strong contenders), and the majority of vintage decks have all power 9. Given that the cost for a set of power 9 is, if I'm not mistaken, around $4000, there's pretty much a barrier to entry in vintage that not many people can be bothered to pass.

Especially when you occasionally hear stories of people's decks getting stolen. And why wouldn't they, when something so unassuming has such high value.

jaxsonbateman
06-04-2013, 12:28 PM
What was it, 5 moxes, time walk, black lotus, and a couple of others? Pretty much all of them became required in some decks or were broken win conditions.
Yup, the 5 moxes, Black Lotus, Time Walk, Time Twister (3 mana, each player shuffles their graveyard and hand into their library, then draws 7 cards - so if you were down to it as your last card it was effectively +6 cards for 3 mana), and Ancestral Vision (one mana, draw 3 cards).

ForgedSol
06-04-2013, 12:31 PM
Ooo, so that's the point the devs were trying to make when they felt it's smarter to starter out with a huge selection of cards and 2 years of balance.


Oh, would it better if different cards had different limits? Like one card has a limit of 1, another has a limit of 3, and most cards have a limit of 4.

Well... they did do a limit of one for those cards. There is a list called the Restricted list. Doing numbers other than Only 1 and Up To 4 would make it more confusing to build decks, and more importantly harder to spot cheating. If you're allowed only two copies of a specific card, and you have three in a deck, a lot of the time you'll never even draw all three copies.

Almazy
06-04-2013, 12:43 PM
Well... they did do a limit of one for those cards. There is a list called the Restricted list. Doing numbers other than Only 1 and Up To 4 would make it more confusing to build decks, and more importantly harder to spot cheating. If you're allowed only two copies of a specific card, and you have three in a deck, a lot of the time you'll never even draw all three copies.My bad, I forgot this game has way higher deck sizes than the card games I played, I didn't play mtg