PDA

View Full Version : Are there multi-player "dungeons" ?



Winsom
06-04-2013, 03:30 AM
Can I invite ONE friend to join me in dungeon content? Can I invite Four or more friends for the same content?

What exactly is the "MMO" aspect of HEX?

This is really important. I need to know what to tell my friends. Can I do ALL of the PvE content with them?


I am not expecting a vast 3D world to explore with dozens of avatars on screen in HEX, BUT I do have some expectations of what an "MMO" trading card game should be.

A chat-room interface with pvp and pve match-making is NOT an MMO to me. Nor is a game with only a small portion ("raid" ?) designed to support greater-than-one-person PvE adventuring. Is this what HEX actually is? I do not know..

I have not seen any videos showing what the multiplayer content of HEX is like. Has anyone ?

What is a dungeon like? How is this MMO-like rather than a single-player experience?

These are important things for me to understand before I decide on backing a kickstarter for 35, 120 or 250+, and how will I sell this idea to my friends?

Thanks for info. Also any links showing multiplayer PvE content being played?

KnowingCrow
06-04-2013, 03:33 AM
You do dungeons on your own, as you complete dungeons you unlock raid encounters. Raid encounters can be done with 1, 2, or 3 players but are designed around assuming you'd need 3 players to beat it. Raid encounters are very likely where the best loot can be found.

There currently isn't any available footage of PvE, sadly. :(

Winsom
06-04-2013, 03:39 AM
Do we return to the "dungeon" but this time it is a "raid" ? So it feels like a similar adventure (story/loctation-wise) but with new/harder stuffs?

I read that "raids" have different loot than "dungeons" or no loot at all, but rather an "end reward", OR what?


It is really unclear to me. If someone can show me a good definition of what to expect (so I can tell my friends) then I would really appreciate knowing.

I read an article that talked about PvE traps, puzzles, etc. Will I get a chance to experience these in multiplayer?

KnowingCrow
06-04-2013, 03:47 AM
There is an end reward that is specific, but there are also random "Drops" that you get for defeating the raids/dungeons. Other than that, you know as much as I do about PvE. I believe dungeons are separate from raids. There is a higher difficulty version of each dungeon/raid (More difficult in that it requires you to use a deck that limits it self to max one copy of each card), but you don't bring multiple players in for a dungeon. As for puzzles and traps, no idea.

Indormi
06-04-2013, 03:49 AM
Raids are the continuation of the dungeon facing the "final boss". For example in the dungeon krakens lair, once you defeated it, you unlock the raid to face the kraken real deal. Not just his minions, the real deal. (This is not a real example, but for you to make an idea)

If you have played wow, dungeon history encounter may be like the ICC dungeons(FoS,PoS,HoR), the boss is there but you dont face him head on. You do that on the raid (ICC)

Edit: We really dont know too much about PvE, we know there is a ton of content but we dont really know much about it

Gwaer
06-04-2013, 07:37 AM
I agree with your sentiment that I feel their dungeons should have been multiplayer, at least a portion of them. To really be an MMO. I think we will get multiplayer dungeons, but they're trying to figure out how they want to implement it.

The MMO is actually referring to community building in their videos, with guilds and social structure and all that jazz, the community to draft/duel/trade/joke with. I hope the more traditional forms of MMO multiplayer PVE show up. And I think there is a very large player base that is going to be expecting it. I hope they can mitigate that desire, and disappointment with some clear messages that it will be coming, just maybe not at launch.

Tyrfang
06-04-2013, 07:39 AM
They said they want to do 2p or more dungeons in the future, and Cory loves playing 2v2, but they aren't doing it on release.

Erebus
06-04-2013, 07:47 AM
Priority passing. If you've ever played a multiplayer game on MTGO you know how much it sucks to wait for each person to pass priority for every little card played. Especially when a player decides to go randomly afk.

Cory understands that this is a challenge and is looking to make the multiplayer as streamline as possible. That being said he has a product to get out of the door. He claimed that dungeons are solo content for "this first wave of dungeons", and Raids are 3v1 series of short duels, not an extended version of that 3 hour dungeon.

I'm sure he'd like to make giant multiplayer battles, but those are a lot easier to pull off in a physical card game then in digital space (as much as digital space opens up, there are still things that are better in the physical realm). I'd not expect to ever see 4 to 5 man dungeons. Maybe a few really hard raids that allow people to 5 man.

incitfulmonk21
06-04-2013, 07:48 AM
The problem with allowing multiple people in a dungeon is some dungeons take 5+ hours to complete. It's not fun being 4 hours in and all of a sudden someone has to eat lunch or starts talking on the phone and leaves you just sitting there waiting for your turn.

It's not like other mmo's where if someone has to do something for 15 minutes you can keep clearing until the person catches up. If someone goes afk then everyone has to just sit around waiting which is not particularly fun.

With all that said I do think they should make dungeons multiplayer. I do think they underestimate the public's willingness to sit around for a few minutes. I do like however that they are making sure things are fun and are trying to cut down on down time.

Finally, I understand raid bosses will take several hours but down time wont be as common because you immediately start off in the fight so most people joining will be sitting down for the express purpose of a one fight no exploring or clearing fight.

Tyrfang
06-04-2013, 07:53 AM
incitfulmonk21:
Not really a problem in a game with progress saving and alts.

Someone needs to take a break? Everyone swap to an alt or just go PvP. When he's back, swap back.

The biggest problem is probably priority pass, but in a PvE environment, I think it would go much faster with auto-pass enabled (just pass if you have no playable options, there's no need to bluff against the AI.) or make it so that everyone passes priority after ~5-8 seconds and you OPT IN for priority...?

Erebus
06-04-2013, 08:42 AM
The issue Tyrfang is that for this type of content, you tend to load your deck with ways to respond to the more powerful deck. So everyone will have Quick Actions in hand, and even auto-pass won't help.

And 5-8 seconds per play starts to add up over time, especially as you need to reset the timer each time someone reacts.

These types of delays can be turn-offs for new players.

I think it's the right move to go Single Player Dungeons -> 3 Player Raids -> 2-3 Player Dungeons -> 4-5 Player Raids. And stop there, and make those last two tiers highly optional.

incitfulmonk21
06-04-2013, 10:21 AM
incitfulmonk21:
Not really a problem in a game with progress saving and alts.

Someone needs to take a break? Everyone swap to an alt or just go PvP. When he's back, swap back.


While I agree for those who like PvP or are competitive in either side of the game it will be no problem I am hoping to have a rather large community which means a large amount of casual players who won't be creating alts and won't want to do PvP.

I would love multiplayer dungeons but I think CZE is doing the right thing and making sure that everyone regardless of play style can enjoy the game.

POINT: To OP it's probably in the best interest right now not to have multiplayer dungeons but I believe most of the community agrees with you that the want more second M in MMO eventually

Tyrfang
06-04-2013, 10:24 AM
Maybe it's just me, but I find casuals make alts more than core players...

MaxtionHero
06-04-2013, 10:24 AM
One of the best parts about the original Duels of the Plainswalkers was the Co-op campaign that I could play with my wife. I am very hopeful co-op dungeons increase in support moving forward, there are definitely a lot of couples out there who would love a co-op experience.

incitfulmonk21
06-04-2013, 10:41 AM
Maybe it's just me, but I find casuals make alts more than core players...

Heh you are probably quite right with that inference.

Tinuvas
06-04-2013, 11:03 AM
One of the best parts about the original Duels of the Plainswalkers was the Co-op campaign that I could play with my wife. I am very hopeful co-op dungeons increase in support moving forward, there are definitely a lot of couples out there who would love a co-op experience.

One of the big things I want to use this game for is time with my wife. When we played Wow, it was the two of us with EVERYTHING, quests, dungeons, raids, if I rolled with you, my wife did too. I hope to see 2 person go big with this game.

Gwaer
06-04-2013, 11:28 AM
I think they should just implement the idea of the concurrent raid fighting, into the dungeons. Basically, everyone is playing against the encounter at their own speed, life totals update real-time with damage from any source in any of the battles, people can coordinate in chat or voice coms, and play like that. Possibly you could initiate a call for help to your party members if the boss plays a card you have nothing for and your party can quickly jump over to your battle and throw out a spell or monster and basically put it under their control, possibly you can throw out effects onto your party mates which and there is a popup, Blah, is attempting to cast Blargh on you, accept/deny. *shrug*

Gwaer
06-04-2013, 11:34 AM
Or! Maybe there could be a special zone, where you can play cards into just as normal, that can be used immediately for your party mates, perhaps they can select them as they need them on their interface, and just straight up use them, or give you a prompt to allow them to use them. But once you play them in that zone you should no longer be able to access them again. It will cost mana/threshold as normal, so it would be a problem if you were the only one playing cards like that. But if you're pwning your game and can offer assistance to your group it might be worthwhile.

EntropyBall
06-04-2013, 12:17 PM
I think they should just implement the idea of the concurrent raid fighting, into the dungeons. Basically, everyone is playing against the encounter at their own speed, life totals update real-time with damage from any source in any of the battles, people can coordinate in chat or voice coms, and play like that. Possibly you could initiate a call for help to your party members if the boss plays a card you have nothing for and your party can quickly jump over to your battle and throw out a spell or monster and basically put it under their control, possibly you can throw out effects onto your party mates which and there is a popup, Blah, is attempting to cast Blargh on you, accept/deny. *shrug*

I've seen this sort of idea in other threads, and I don't understand it at all. How could they come over and help you? Its not like this is an RTS. In a turn-based game, I don't understand how the timing would work, at all, in this idea. What if someone plays something that deal 1 damage to all creatures, and you are in the middle of resolving combat damage? Do you get to react to it? Do they have to wait for your reaction? Can you explain more, because I really can't envision how a concurrent dungeon would work.

Gwaer
06-04-2013, 12:22 PM
Well originally, I was forseeing it as you would continue to your next draw step, and then play something to assist if you could. But I like my second idea better, which is basically as you're playing, just play cards from your hand to another "multiplayer zone" where they sit in limbo, already paid for until someone needs it. Probably instants only, I dunno if it should work for creatures and such... But maybe.

Winsom
06-04-2013, 04:12 PM
I expect to see multiplayer pve dungeons in HEX at some point IF they are true to their vision of delivering something unique and special in the market. Right now based on what I'm reading here: HEX is a combination of Magic the Gathering Online and Clash of the Dragons. Clash has PvE solo dungeons and multiplayer raid encounters.

HEX might be lacking some of the MtG Duels of the Planeswalkers multiplayer functionality: team play 2 vs 2, and so on. Or maybe they can do it, but chose not to make dungeons that way, yet.. Team-style play is what would be needed for multiplayer PvE dungeons, so my friends can team up to fight 2 or more enemy "decks" in a single battle (or a string of battles..).


I've only played two CCGs with multiplayer: Magic, and Clash of the Dragons.

Clash has "brawls" which is a single encounter raid-like boss that is typically killed in less than 4 minutes. The brawl scenario sets the numbers of multiplayer, which can be 2 vs 1 up to 5 vs 1. This type of fight is fun except I think it is over too fast AND they allow too much time for a player to chose an action. You can end up waiting 20s for an AFK player.

Magic the Gathering Duels of the Planeswalkers has very good multiplayer (network buggieness aside) implementation. You can team up 3 vs 1 where the 1 is boss-like. 2 vs 2 "two headed giant" is cooperative team play with shared life total and a shared attack step. Having only 1 attack step per team speeds up the game and it is fun to team-up like that. Your opponent can block and respond as a team. The delays are minimal. Maybe 10s to make decision or the game proceeds without you.

HEX developers have many options they can use to keep multiplayer fun. They just have to spend the time doing the design and programming work. It is their job to make fun games and they have lots of experience doing just that. Do not assume that fun multiplayer internet card gaming is impossible.