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View Full Version : Why are there so few people doing raid leader?



tacospag
06-04-2013, 11:40 AM
it seems like the real valuable pve goods will be raid items, and raid will give an advantage

Daer
06-04-2013, 11:41 AM
Because you touch yourself at night.

larryhl
06-04-2013, 11:42 AM
Why don't you go raid leader then?

ForgedSol
06-04-2013, 11:44 AM
Well... hmm... on the one hand, what the hell kind of reply is that!

But then on the other hand, looks like all this guy does is start new threads and then never reply in them... so he's probably not asking a serious question.

Kilo24
06-04-2013, 11:46 AM
It's hard to predict the value of a Raid Leader. It's dependent on what available from raids, how many raids they are, how hard they are, and how fun/profitable a given raid is. All those change the value of Raid Leaders in a complicated way.

The other tiers are guaranteed to be profitable for the lone player and have more predictable effects. Even the Guild Master (whose primary effect is of similarly indeterminate value) still gets 90 boosters.

larryhl
06-04-2013, 11:47 AM
It's hard to predict the value of a Raid Leader. It's dependent on what available from raids, how many raids they are, how hard they are, and how fun/profitable a given raid is. All those change the value of Raid Leaders in a complicated way.

The other tiers are guaranteed to be profitable for the lone player and have more predictable effects. Even the Guild Master (whose primary effect is of similarly indeterminate value) still gets 90 boosters.

You're falling into the OP's trap.

Qorsair
06-04-2013, 11:48 AM
I think it's a threefold issue.

1 - most people don't understand the benefits of Raid Leader
2 - many people aren't serious enough about PVE to expect grouping to make up a significant portion of their gameplay.
3 - many of us who do expect to be serious about PVE already picked up Grand King

Almazy
06-04-2013, 11:51 AM
Raid leader is for gamblers lol.

tacospag
06-04-2013, 11:52 AM
i was thinking going raid leader over dungeon crawler just because I expect the rewards for raiding to be better in the long run than dungeoning. I was just wondering if there was a consensus against it because no one seems to be going for it.

jaxsonbateman
06-04-2013, 12:02 PM
3's not really fair. I'm going to be serious about PvE, but there are no more GK's. :-P

The issue is, the benefits of a second and third raid leader are not nearly as big as the benefits of the first raid leader. That is to say, one raid leader will make an encounter a *lot* better, the second and third will make the encounter better, but not by as much as the first. The perks are also nowhere near as important as a skilled player and a solid deck. So the mentality of most players is that:

1. They can find someone else to give their group the RL buff, thus allowing them to get other perks from another tier.
2. They can do an encounter without a 2nd or 3rd extra card in their opening hand (which will likely get discarded at end of turn anyway).
3. They can do an encounter without *any* RLs as raids aren't balanced around someone having the RL buff.

Personally, I'm torn between RL and Collector as the second 250 tier to add to my DC pledge. RL would make me much more desirable for groups due to the small number of RLs compared to the likely population of the game (the main perk to the tier, IMO), but would pretty much force me to merge accounts. Collector provides more usable perks at the cost of having a slightly easier time with raids (but still being able to clear them in all likelihood), and allows me to keep the accounts separate and thus get an extra 52 drafts for the first year.

Qorsair
06-04-2013, 12:02 PM
Raid leader is a much more abstract bonus. You have to understand the TCG mechanics to understand the benefits. A lot of people pledging have never really played TCGs. Combine that with people not understanding the +1 card bonus stacks, and they think "I'll just find a Raid Leader to group with!" Not thinking about the fact that Raid Leaders are going to be looking to group with other Raid Leaders.

Dungeon Crawler is simply an easier tier to grasp; "You mean I get 2x the shinies? Sign me up!" and there's nothing wrong with that. It's a very straightforward bonus that you know will benefit you in all solo dungeons.

jaxsonbateman
06-04-2013, 12:03 PM
i was thinking going raid leader over dungeon crawler just because I expect the rewards for raiding to be better in the long run than dungeoning. I was just wondering if there was a consensus against it because no one seems to be going for it.
The fact of the matter is, you should be able to clear a raid with or without the perk. But without the DC perk, there's no way to get 100% extra loot. That made it a very easy decision for me.

Qorsair
06-04-2013, 12:09 PM
Without the DC perk you can get 100% extra loot by running the dungeon again. This method also provides 100% extra xp. :)

larryhl
06-04-2013, 12:13 PM
Without the DC perk you can get 100% extra loot by running the dungeon again. This method also provides 100% extra xp. :)

Except those of us with DC will run the dungeon again, get the extra xp and then 2 times the loot again ;)

Qorsair
06-04-2013, 12:23 PM
The core question is whether you plan to spend your extra time raiding in a group or running solo dungeons.
Once you have the gear you need from the dungeons, are you going to continue running them for crafting/AH or will you be raiding?

jaxsonbateman
06-04-2013, 12:35 PM
Except... even if you do plan on raiding once you're done, you don't need raid leader to succeed.

If we look at it like a WoW raid, this is pretty much the difference between a player having the second or third best food buff, and a player having the best food buff. Even for the toughest raid, they'll be able to do it without the best buff; skill and gear (or in Hex's case, deck + equipment) are about 95%+ of everything. There's a reason the best raiders in the world can clear stuff within the first week or two.

I must emphasize I'm not saying the buff is bad at all. It's groovy. I honestly think some people are overvaluing how important it will be though. And this is coming from someone with a 50% chance of picking it up.

Gwaer
06-04-2013, 12:37 PM
They have said raids are incredibly difficult. Also there have been hints that doing it with less people nets some type of different reward than with a group of 3. There are situations where a raid leader may be able to solo something incredibly easier than a normal player. And then get access to some sort of restricted loot.

larryhl
06-04-2013, 12:40 PM
The core question is whether you plan to spend your extra time raiding in a group or running solo dungeons.
Once you have the gear you need from the dungeons, are you going to continue running them for crafting/AH or will you be raiding?

I'm assuming it'll be very similar to what I do now in MMOs. Raids have set times and most of the time I will be spending in dungeons.

Kilo24
06-04-2013, 12:47 PM
You're falling into the OP's trap.
Even if the OP is 'just trolling', that doesn't change the fact that other people may come into this thread looking for discussion on the topic.


Except... even if you do plan on raiding once you're done, you don't need raid leader to succeed.

If we look at it like a WoW raid, this is pretty much the difference between a player having the second or third best food buff, and a player having the best food buff. Even for the toughest raid, they'll be able to do it without the best buff; skill and gear (or in Hex's case, deck + equipment) are about 95%+ of everything. There's a reason the best raiders in the world can clear stuff within the first week or two.

I must emphasize I'm not saying the buff is bad at all. It's groovy. I honestly think some people are overvaluing how important it will be though. And this is coming from someone with a 50% chance of picking it up.
I'd say that the constant bonus for having a Raid Leader is a pretty big buff. A free +1 health per turn that can be burned for a get-out-of-lethal-damage free card, put in play for every member of the raid right at the start? That's a big deal: closer to a free soulstone on each player than a mild stat buff from food.

I agree with you that it won't be necessary (especially considering all the equipment and champion combos that will come into play), but I can't help but see it saving people from more than a few wipes.

Qorsair
06-04-2013, 12:53 PM
I'm assuming it'll be very similar to what I do now in MMOs. Raids have set times and most of the time I will be spending in dungeons.

I don't mean to presume what you or your guild will do, but I would expect Raids to be played/scheduled more like dungeons in other MMOs, and dungeons to be more like soloing.

Raids will only require a group of yourself and two other people, meaning they'll be easier to organize than most dungeons in other MMOs. With no timers or lockouts, I would be surprised if they're scheduled. Not that some wouldn't be on a regular schedule, but it's not going to require much coordination to get 3 people online at the same time to take a shot at it.

If--on the other hand--most of your time truly will be spent soloing, then Dungeon Crawler is definitely a better tier for your play style.

jaxsonbateman
06-04-2013, 12:54 PM
Hmmm, I will admit, for some reason while I thought that everyone got the 1 life per turn, I was under the impression that only one person could gain a prevent-all-damage shield. But a quick Google seems to indicate that I am mistaken.

Which in turn, does increase it's power a bit, in that you do get 3 "oh sheet" buttons, instead of the one I thought you got.

I won't back down from my opinion that it's certainly not necessary, and you shouldn't feel bad for not taking it if you want the DC buff, or the AA Collector cards, but you shouldn't feel bad if you take RL either. It's certainly viable.

And I'll also state again that the hidden perk is, IMO, the best reason to take RL - group desirability. If Hex gets 100k+ players, around 1% or less of players will give the RL buff. So when you're looking for a raid party and you pipe up with "lv 50 LF raid, have RL buff" you should get a lot of attention.

larryhl
06-04-2013, 01:02 PM
Hmmm, I will admit, for some reason while I thought that everyone got the 1 life per turn, I was under the impression that only one person could gain a prevent-all-damage shield. But a quick Google seems to indicate that I am mistaken.

Which in turn, does increase it's power a bit, in that you do get 3 "oh sheet" buttons, instead of the one I thought you got.

I won't back down from my opinion that it's certainly not necessary, and you shouldn't feel bad for not taking it if you want the DC buff, or the AA Collector cards, but you shouldn't feel bad if you take RL either. It's certainly viable.

And I'll also state again that the hidden perk is, IMO, the best reason to take RL - group desirability. If Hex gets 100k+ players, around 1% or less of players will give the RL buff. So when you're looking for a raid party and you pipe up with "lv 50 LF raid, have RL buff" you should get a lot of attention.

We have guilds for a reason...

jaxsonbateman
06-04-2013, 01:10 PM
To find people to group with? Well sure, but even in a guild situation you're going to be more desirable 'cause of the buff - and heck, because people know you you won't even have to say anything. They'll just message you and say "want to do X raid?". Nice little hidden perk. ;-)

I'm just about on the tipping point of going for RL. In the words of the Pokemon theme song, "I want to be the very best", so the buff is something I should have. Otherwise, I'm not really being the very best now am I. :-P

MaxtionHero
06-04-2013, 01:26 PM
I've been struggling the past few days with the same decision. I upgradef to the DC because it's easy to understand the value it brings. The RL is intriguing, there is just simply too much unknown for me to drop $250 on it.

larryhl
06-04-2013, 01:28 PM
In the words of the Pokemon theme song, "I want to be the very best", so the buff is something I should have. Otherwise, I'm not really being the very best now am I. :-P

I live by "Gotta catch 'em all." Which is why my tiers make sense to me =P

Qorsair
06-04-2013, 01:29 PM
I won't back down from my opinion that it's certainly not necessary, and you shouldn't feel bad for not taking it if you want the DC buff, or the AA Collector cards, but you shouldn't feel bad if you take RL either. It's certainly viable.

I agree, it's definitely not a case of being able to say "clearly Raid Leader is the best choice."
But as you said, I don't believe it will prove to be inferior to the other choices, and will most likely provide some social benefits.

Winsom
06-04-2013, 05:08 PM
The fact of the matter is, you should be able to clear a raid with or without the perk. But without the DC perk, there's no way to get 100% extra loot. That made it a very easy decision for me.

I can do the dungeon twice to get the same loot chances a Dungeon Crawler gets for doing it once. Just pointing out that is how many people will get the same personal-collection loot that the DC is getting. It will just take longer. There is a limit to how much loot is useful for 1 person, or a small group of friends.

The DC is very well suited for farming solo content for the purpose of suppling cards to a guild and selling extra cards on the AH.

Winsom
06-04-2013, 05:22 PM
kickstarter bonus stacking in pve ?

Three Raid Leaders = +3 cards in hand each?

Shouldn't there be some limits, to be fair to the developer's concept of how challenging raid encounters should be ? Do they really want to create an "easy button" for completing raid content? Knowing that more than 99.9% of their player-base after kickstarter will NOT enjoy this benefit?

What about the Guild Master? Just how many +10% pve experience points bonuses should be allowed to stack in a single guild? If the Raid Leader bonuses stack then some amount of Guild Master should stack too...

Daer
06-04-2013, 06:24 PM
Guild Master bonuses don't stack

caffn8d
06-04-2013, 09:02 PM
Edit: Edited because my reading comprehension is bad.

Tyrfang
06-04-2013, 09:03 PM
Guild Master bonuses stacking would make leveling trivial if we just threw all 1000 GKs into the same guild.

+10000% XP! :)

SacrificialToast
06-04-2013, 10:37 PM
All the other tiers provide some sort of monetary/grinding benefit. Raid Leader just makes raids easier. Why would I want to nerf the challenge of content? That just makes it less fun.