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BlindMan
06-04-2013, 10:17 PM
I've seen people asking for clarification on whether Collector gets 2 Lotus Gardens. I did some digging, and this is the most relevant post I could find:

http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=23071&p=206325&viewfull=1#post206325

Question:

The Grand King tier says you will recieve an extra set of the Kings tier exclusives. Does that mean Grand Kings will have 2 Lotus Garden? Also obviously pve cards are not allowed in pvp, but will pvp cards be playable in pve?

Answer:

What Daer said... Yes and Yes.

Since the referenced "extra set of the King tier exclusives" is the reward GK gets directly from the Collector Tier, this seems like a lock that Collector also gets 2 Lotus Gardens.

nicosharp
06-04-2013, 10:20 PM
It is pretty insane that this tier is not gone by now.
I can see the argument for 2 kings instead, but the stretch value and exclusives really push this way over the edge for me. If I had not been able to get a GK, I would have been 2x Collector.

TheDiv
06-04-2013, 10:26 PM
It is pretty insane that this tier is not gone by now.
I can see the argument for 2 kings instead, but the stretch value and exclusives really push this way over the edge for me. If I had not been able to get a GK, I would have been 2x Collector.

It is surprising. If this was a physical TCG, I reckon it'd have gone as fast as PP if not faster. I think people are still wrapping their heads around how valuable pixels can be, I think there's a decent amount of potential value if you wanted to re-sell but even more if you're just a collector :)

S117
06-04-2013, 11:07 PM
Wouldn't it be 3? Collectors gets 2x the PvE exclusive cards + $660k stretch goal?

Gwaer
06-04-2013, 11:09 PM
660k goal specifically doesn't apply to lotus garden, but it is 3 of all the other exclusives, yes.

BlindMan
06-04-2013, 11:10 PM
The 660k goal specifically says it doesn't apply to lotus garden.

S117
06-04-2013, 11:12 PM
The exclusion applies to "Spectral Lotus" not mentioning the garden part which is what's been confusing me.
It seems to mean the lotus card the garden makes not excluding the garden itself.

Gwaer
06-04-2013, 11:14 PM
No, it means the spectral lotus garden, no accounts start with the spectral lotus at all, you will get your first one when you log in the first time.

Cornholio666
06-04-2013, 11:23 PM
this also:

http://imgur.com/s68YcMJ

I think the reason they didn't answer this question in the live session on Monday was that they couldn't remember off the top of their heads whether they had committed to 3 lotus for collector or not somewhere (like with the 660k stretch); it is not really a question that there will be at least two , they have confirmed 2 three or more times.

ForgedSol
06-05-2013, 12:19 AM
Good to have an official reminder though. I knew I read this somewhere.

nickon
06-05-2013, 12:59 AM
2nd that, the rewards are mentioning that "Spectral Lotus" is excluded from "+1 additional copy of each kickstarter exclusive card", not the Spectral Lotus Garden. Thats indeed a bit confusing, but I think they mean to exclude the garden from that, except for the collector tier, which will get 2 Spectral Lotus Gardens (read this somewhere on the forums, don't know if it's official though).

TheWrathofShane
06-05-2013, 01:55 AM
Comparing Collector to Pro Player.

Kickstarter exlusive cards:
Pro gets +2 of each, including AA PvP cards.
Collector gets +3 of each, including AA PvP cards.

Lotus Garden:
Pro gets +1
Collector gets +2

Free drafts:
Pro gets once a week for life.
Collector gets once a week for a year.

Unique things:
Pro gets Entry to some tournaments which will be competing with over 2000 other kickstarters for grand prizes.
Collectors gets x2 of 6 different AA PvP cards once a year for life.

The 660k+ stretch goal actually applies to the collector unique and other kickstarter PvP cards, this is confirmed. You are free to dig for it but save yourself some time and take my word on it.

hammer
06-05-2013, 02:24 AM
Good summary WrathofShane.

Taking it slightly further.

Year 1:
Collector has 1 extra Lotus Garden and 12 Alternate Art Promos over Pro Player (year 1 both get free draft and cancel each other out)
Year 2:
Collector has 1 extra Lotus 24 Alternate Art Promos (ie Y1+Y2) and Pro Player gets a Free draft a week for the year

Then each year Collector gets 12 Alternate Art Promos whilst Pro gets a draft a week ($364) - (but remember that collector is already up 1 lotus and 12 alternate art cards from Yr1). Lots of variables here to balance and predict which is financially the best option (ie cost of a Garden, Income generation possible from a Garden, Average value of AA cards, Average value of an opened booster (beyond Set 1 and 2)), whether the pro player has the commitment and time to draft every week, I am split on where prizes from draft would play in to considering value). Lots to think about.

TheWrathofShane
06-05-2013, 04:26 AM
Good summary WrathofShane.

Taking it slightly further.

Year 1:
Collector has 1 extra Lotus Garden and 12 Alternate Art Promos over Pro Player (year 1 both get free draft and cancel each other out)
Year 2:
Collector has 1 extra Lotus 24 Alternate Art Promos (ie Y1+Y2) and Pro Player gets a Free draft a week for the year

Then each year Collector gets 12 Alternate Art Promos whilst Pro gets a draft a week ($364) - (but remember that collector is already up 1 lotus and 12 alternate art cards from Yr1). Lots of variables here to balance and predict which is financially the best option (ie cost of a Garden, Income generation possible from a Garden, Average value of AA cards, Average value of an opened booster (beyond Set 1 and 2)), whether the pro player has the commitment and time to draft every week, I am split on where prizes from draft would play in to considering value). Lots to think about.


Personally I would go collector if I had the funds to upgrade my king :-P

Those exclusive artwork cards are going to be incredibly rare and cannot be obtained by anyone else joining Hex late to the party. A lot of collectors are not going to want to part with them either, so when one does sell its going to go for a lot more money.

Just look up Nicol Bolas for MTG. His alternative artwork foil for the limited supply FTV: Dragons sells for 44 dollars, while his other printings are only 1 dollar. And same deal on MTGO (Digital card game). Force of Will sells for 100 dollars a pop. The foil sells for 300. People will pay triple the price for vanity.

Not to mention you get an extra copy of the amazing lotus garden. If I had funds for GK and acess, I would probably just go for x2 collectors.

Not ragging on the other perks at all guys. Remember, the designers from WoW are on the team, they know how to make epic raids and dungeons. And they are all gamers, Dungeon Crawler and Raid leader are definitely worth it. Just depends on your preference. I am sure it will be a grind to level up our champions and mercs. So Guild Master would be fantastic also for someone who loves managing guilds.

But I am glad they gave the other tiers free draft a week for a year. Pro Player was imbalanced choice until they did that.

fido_one
06-05-2013, 05:03 AM
I think CZE was thrown a curve ball with the double/triple/quadruple dipping. Collector holds a lot of value if it's the only way that can give you x3 of King exclusives and x2 lotus gardens.

Since they started allowing multiple accounts, the values on a lot of the tiers changed and I think collector was skewed the most - the reduction of value to get those cards via double dipping is offset by the stretch goal (x2 of each Collector AA PvP card), but the reason people are attracted to it is probably a good bit different from what CZE originally envisioned.

nickon
06-05-2013, 05:38 AM
Those exclusive artwork cards are going to be incredibly rare and cannot be obtained by anyone else joining Hex late to the party. A lot of collectors are not going to want to part with them either, so when one does sell its going to go for a lot more money.

I'm still doubtful about this, and trying to make up my mind on it. If the cards themselves (or some of them) would have been truely exclusive (e.g. "pack raptor" is a card you would only obtain through collector, included in your yearly 12 card pack you get, and you wouldn't find them in boosters etc...) I wouldn't doubt for a minute to go collector. But right now the value of these yearly AA PvP cards in collector is due to:
* The cards automatically being rare or legendary
* The cards having alternate artwork on them

And I doubt the latter will make any difference to someone if they could also get the non-AA PvP card through buying boosters... Depending on how large the probability is you get a rare / legendary card out of a booster the collector tier might be worth a lot more or less than we currently think it is.

TheWrathofShane
06-05-2013, 05:55 AM
I'm still doubtful about this, and trying to make up my mind on it. If the cards themselves (or some of them) would have been truely exclusive (e.g. "pack raptor" is a card you would only obtain through collector, included in your yearly 12 card pack you get, and you wouldn't find them in boosters etc...) I wouldn't doubt for a minute to go collector. But right now the value of these yearly AA PvP cards in collector is due to:
* The cards automatically being rare or legendary
* The cards having alternate artwork on them

And I doubt the latter will make any difference to someone if they could also get the non-AA PvP card through buying boosters... Depending on how large the probability is you get a rare / legendary card out of a booster the collector tier might be worth a lot more or less than we currently think it is.

Just look at MTGO. Force of Will costs 100, but the more rare foil prices at 300. People will pay top dollar for vanity.

Kami
06-05-2013, 06:18 AM
Collector's value depends entirely on the six AA per year. Even with a single Collector, you wouldn't have a full play-set. You would need four Collector or higher tiers to have a full play-set.

However, given that you can't predict whether you would even play with those cards makes it a bit of a toss-up. Since there is still unlocking foiling and EA, I'm not particularly inclined to swing for another 2x Collector just to make up the difference. At worst, I may trade or buy cards to make up the full play-set.

Collector does have one major advantage of being the cheapest single tier to obtain two Gardens and three KS Exclusive cards. It is your ideal budget starter set if you're trying to get as many of the only-now card bonuses with a single pledge.


Just look at MTGO. Force of Will costs 100, but the more rare foil prices at 300. People will pay top dollar for vanity.

It also depends on whether the card is worth using though. I could argue there are rare AA and foils that are worth very little over the original card value.

warstriker
06-05-2013, 06:25 AM
Collector's value depends entirely on the six AA per year. Even with a single Collector, you wouldn't have a full play-set. You would need four Collector or higher tiers to have a full play-set.

You only need 2 collectors tiers to get the playset, not four. I will say no more. (rule number 1)

TheWrathofShane
06-05-2013, 06:30 AM
Collector's value depends entirely on the six AA per year. Even with a single Collector, you wouldn't have a full play-set. You would need four Collector or higher tiers to have a full play-set.


Actually you only need 2 collector tiers or higher to have a full playset.
They confirmed it in a Q&A section on the kickstarter updates page, the +1 to all kickstarter exclusive cards from the 660k stretch goal also applies to collector's unique reward, and the other PvP alt art cards.

TheWrathofShane
06-05-2013, 06:35 AM
Also guys, the grind to hit level 20 on mercs has got to be long, otherwise guildmaster 10% would feel so unrewarding :D

Kami
06-05-2013, 06:49 AM
Actually you only need 2 collector tiers or higher to have a full playset.
They confirmed it in a Q&A section on the kickstarter updates page, the +1 to all kickstarter exclusive cards from the 660k stretch goal also applies to collector's unique reward, and the other PvP alt art cards.

Ah! My bad, I missed that part. I knew about the +1 to all the KS stuff but didn't noticed the Collector Reward got buffed too.

Woo... now don't have to worry about not having a full play-set of everything.

fido_one
06-05-2013, 07:37 AM
Kami, does the 4 of every card award with producer not include even the KS Collector cards? I'm assuming with the cost of entry for producer, you basically get every damn card in the game, even AA stuff. I know you are doubling up GK anyways to get you the 4, but I've always read the producer tier as a 'you don't have to worry about card collection for 4 or less on anything we ever do, forever.'

Kami
06-05-2013, 07:40 AM
Kami, does the 4 of every card award with producer not include even the KS Collector cards? I'm assuming with the cost of entry for producer, you basically get every damn card in the game, even AA stuff. I know you are doubling up GK anyways to get you the 4, but I've always read the producer tier as a 'you don't have to worry about card collection for 4 or less on anything we ever do, forever.'

Nope, only includes the non-exclusive stuff and all equipment.

That was one of the things that kinda miffed us about the upper tiers when they allowed multi-pledging. We couldn't get a full set of KS exclusives without multi-pledging, even as a Dragon Lord or higher. They tried to improve it by adding +1 to many tiers with stretch goal but you'd still be one short without multi-pledging.

Oh well, it's a small thing. :)

warstriker
06-05-2013, 07:42 AM
Kami, does the 4 of every card award with producer not include even the KS Collector cards? I'm assuming with the cost of entry for producer, you basically get every damn card in the game, even AA stuff. I know you are doubling up GK anyways to get you the 4, but I've always read the producer tier as a 'you don't have to worry about card collection for 4 or less on anything we ever do, forever.'

He only gets 4 of all the non-exclusive cards. AA stuff in this case, is an exclusive card. But i agree, for that kind of money you should get everything

whythelastman
06-05-2013, 07:48 AM
@Kami: I'm glad you're sticking with Producer. I was flip-flopping between Primal or not--I'm weak :( Currently, I'm only at DC. I imagine you'd be able to easily trade for KS exclusives with all your surplus, but your GK covers everything already. Out of curiosity: do you plan on selling all your cards in excess of four on the AH, or will you be stockpiling, handing out to friends, or something else? Perhaps the wild west format will allow some basic rule breaking, like more than four copies of a card? That might be fun.

Showsni
06-05-2013, 08:24 AM
I'm still doubtful about this, and trying to make up my mind on it. If the cards themselves (or some of them) would have been truely exclusive (e.g. "pack raptor" is a card you would only obtain through collector, included in your yearly 12 card pack you get, and you wouldn't find them in boosters etc...) I wouldn't doubt for a minute to go collector. But right now the value of these yearly AA PvP cards in collector is due to:
* The cards automatically being rare or legendary
* The cards having alternate artwork on them

And I doubt the latter will make any difference to someone if they could also get the non-AA PvP card through buying boosters... Depending on how large the probability is you get a rare / legendary card out of a booster the collector tier might be worth a lot more or less than we currently think it is.

Ha, no. Look at Pokémon Trading Card Online: Professor Juniper is a staple card, but it's only an uncommon that's given away for free in a deck they give you. As such, the regular card is worth next to nothing. There's also a Full Art version, which is available in much more limited supplies (secret rare level) - it's one of the most expensive things in the trading house, easily worth ten or more booster packs on its own. People will pay an awful lot for pimped out decks in TCGs, and I see no reason for Hex to be any different.

Kami
06-05-2013, 08:37 AM
@Kami: I'm glad you're sticking with Producer. I was flip-flopping between Primal or not--I'm weak :( Currently, I'm only at DC. I imagine you'd be able to easily trade for KS exclusives with all your surplus, but your GK covers everything already. Out of curiosity: do you plan on selling all your cards in excess of four on the AH, or will you be stockpiling, handing out to friends, or something else? Perhaps the wild west format will allow some basic rule breaking, like more than four copies of a card? That might be fun.

I've not yet decided. ^^;