PDA

View Full Version : Faction Linked to Account Concerns



Drelder
06-04-2013, 10:27 PM
After reading over the Twitch.TV FAQ tonight, I do have some concerns about Factions being linked to accounts.

This essentially means my Kickstarter Tier only applies to ARDENT or Underworld. I can't play both experiences with the same KS advantages. Hence, I'll have to create multiple accounts to get the full meal deal? And get Multiple KS tiers?

And what about Guilds? Do all guildmates have to choose one side or the other and be on the same side like they do in WOW? If I chose one faction, my champion decks will not be able to experience the other half of the game?

Maybe I'm interpreting this wrong. Someone correct me and say it ain't so.

larryhl
06-04-2013, 10:29 PM
That's what it looks like. From all the fuss about merging tiers, it seems like now everyone has a reason not to merge them...

Gorgol
06-04-2013, 10:32 PM
seems like it which sucks hard.

Tyrfang
06-04-2013, 10:33 PM
They were talking about the in-game NPC factions, not Argent/Underworld.

He mentioned stuff like reputation, cryptographers, and Void Society.

tacospag
06-04-2013, 10:33 PM
This is very disheartening. I do not want to experience half of the game or be forced to play with only half the players

DisOrd3r
06-04-2013, 10:33 PM
If it's like that then it's stupid, then they are forcing people to make more than one account
And they didn't want that ;P

grey0one
06-04-2013, 10:34 PM
It would only suck for account flags and Kickstarter mercenaries. You just trade the cards between accounts.

Gwaer
06-04-2013, 10:36 PM
Wrong definition of faction.
They were talking about the in-game NPC factions, not Argent/Underworld.
^ Cory misunderstood the question, was talking about how your 'reputation' with each in game 'faction' is tracked. Not the ardent/underworld. But the different npc societies.

Gorgol
06-04-2013, 10:37 PM
Certainly hope so.

Tyrfang
06-04-2013, 10:38 PM
^ Cory misunderstood the question, was talking about how your 'reputation' with each in game 'faction' is tracked. Not the ardent/underworld. But the different npc societies.

Seeing as how I asked the question, and he answered my question, I don't think he misunderstood it. =P

larryhl
06-04-2013, 10:38 PM
^ Cory misunderstood the question, was talking about how your 'reputation' with each in game 'faction' is tracked. Not the ardent/underworld. But the different npc societies.

Even if so, it's still half of a story/cards/rewards that an account will never be able to experience. Still feel this should be tied to characters.

DisOrd3r
06-04-2013, 10:39 PM
Please don't bring out the pitchforks and torches yet ;)
Let's just send them message and we will see ^^

Tyrfang
06-04-2013, 10:41 PM
Even if so, it's still half of a story/cards/rewards that an account will never be able to experience. Still feel this should be tied to characters.

We're going to have to get used to being unable to be able to play side in the game, because Cory is pretty deadset on "NO ONE ACCOUNT CAN HAVE EVERY CARD IN THE GAME." :)

Gwaer
06-04-2013, 10:42 PM
Seeing as how I asked the question, and he answered my question, I don't think he misunderstood it. =P
If you asked about the in game factions, instead of what everyone has been wondering about ardent/underworld grouping together/having them on the same account... Then you just asked a bad question, because the one he answered had already been clarified =(

lamaros
06-04-2013, 10:42 PM
Building a community and having restricted factions are counter productive, especially when that community only plays together in groups of 3.

Lets hope it's just a misunderstanding.

Tyrfang
06-04-2013, 10:43 PM
If you asked about the in game factions, instead of what everyone has been wondering about ardent/underworld grouping together/having them on the same account... Then you just asked a bad question, because the one he answered had already been clarified =(

When was that clarified? When he mentioned that you can't get all the cards on one account and the lockout, he mentioned the arena, but not the NPC factions.

Tyrfang
06-04-2013, 10:44 PM
Building a community and having restricted factions are counter productive, especially when that community only plays together in groups of 3.

Lets hope it's just a misunderstanding.

The only misunderstanding was the OP... >_>

Gwaer
06-04-2013, 10:47 PM
Before talking about the arena, they mentioned factions inside of dungeons that gave you mercs, and that you could get the opposite sides mercs by simply running the dungeon again. The only question I had about the matter was if you can max out your the mercenary minataurs faction, and the assassin guild faction, that are supposedly exclusive on different characters of the same account, and it didn't seem to me like he answered that question. But maybe he did. In which case I suppose it wasn't a bad question and I apologize. But people have been buzzing for days about whether you could have ardent/underworld factions on the same account, and that's what many people misunderstood him to be answering.

Tyrfang
06-04-2013, 10:50 PM
But people have been buzzing for days about whether you could have ardent/underworld factions on the same account, and that's what many people misunderstood him to be answering.

It'd be odd to force a constraint of Ardent/Underworld when you can have ardent/underworld troops in the same deck, so it could be that they made the assumption it was obvious.

Gwaer
06-04-2013, 10:51 PM
Actually, the question was asked similarly, on stream the other day, "can characters of different factions raid together" the answer was they haven't decided yet. That makes it much less clear cut.

(that's what set off the wild speculation that you couldn't have both faction characters on one account.)

Tyrfang
06-04-2013, 10:56 PM
Huh. Well, even WoW doesn't bother limiting players to a Horde/Alliance on the PvP servers anymore...
Unless they really play up the RvR side of the lore, it wouldn't make much sense to restrict players.

Shakalaka
06-04-2013, 11:05 PM
This needs to be cleared before the KS end.

I really dont want or need 2 Accounts ...

Fateanomaly
06-04-2013, 11:25 PM
I don't want to create 2 accounts either but since the arena already need another account to get both, i am already prepared to create 1 more account.

Tyrfang
06-04-2013, 11:26 PM
There's 3 sides in arena.

But what's the point of doing all 3 sides if you can't use them in the same deck, anyway?

HyenaNipples
06-04-2013, 11:28 PM
Any kind of faction-based limitation on CO-OP content will divide guilds up internally- I think that falls under the 'pointlessly un-fun mechanic.'

Shakalaka
06-04-2013, 11:29 PM
Well, what about our KS bonuses ... they only work on one account.

Gwaer
06-04-2013, 11:29 PM
Any kind of faction-based limitation on CO-OP content will divide guilds up internally- I think that falls under the 'pointlessly un-fun mechanic.'
I agree wholeheartedly.

KnowingCrow
06-04-2013, 11:34 PM
They are PvE cards, they've already stated that they don't need to be balanced. Why the hell shouldn't I be able to have different characters have different factions?

Not being able to collect all the cards is a huge turnoff.

Gwaer
06-04-2013, 11:36 PM
Well, they've stated in no uncertain terms that you will definitely not be able to collect all of the cards, I was under the impression that was referring to a few specific examples of cards. I don't think they will end up limiting factions, or anything like that. I certainly hope not. I'd like to get a response about it, though.

KnowingCrow
06-04-2013, 11:37 PM
I really don't see why not.

Drelder
06-04-2013, 11:41 PM
Sorry if I misunderstood. It's just that when I click on the webpage of hextcg and I click under "faction", I just see Ardent and Underworld.

Gwaer
06-04-2013, 11:41 PM
Because there is at least one dungeon that forces you to make a choice between two factions, and once you attain the highest level with them and get the exclusive card from it, you can never gain reputation with the other faction on that account, not character, but account.

TheWrathofShane
06-04-2013, 11:42 PM
After reading over the Twitch.TV FAQ tonight, I do have some concerns about Factions being linked to accounts.

This essentially means my Kickstarter Tier only applies to ARDENT or Underworld. I can't play both experiences with the same KS advantages. Hence, I'll have to create multiple accounts to get the full meal deal? And get Multiple KS tiers?

And what about Guilds? Do all guildmates have to choose one side or the other and be on the same side like they do in WOW? If I chose one faction, my champion decks will not be able to experience the other half of the game?

Maybe I'm interpreting this wrong. Someone correct me and say it ain't so.


Nooooooo

They were talking like the minotaurs and the gargoyles...
You chose one side and its linked to account.

Gwaer
06-04-2013, 11:42 PM
Sorry if I misunderstood. It's just that when I click on the webpage of hextcg and I click under "faction", I just see Ardent and Underworld.
It's a perfectly understandable mistake, we really should be using another word for than factions for the in game rep choices.

larryhl
06-05-2013, 12:39 AM
It's still something that is really annoying due to being linked to account. I mean, take a look at Tyrant (Flash CCG). I hate the game because it's ridiculously pay to win, but at least they let you gain reputation with all factions.

TheWrathofShane
06-05-2013, 02:29 AM
It's still something that is really annoying due to being linked to account. I mean, take a look at Tyrant (Flash CCG). I hate the game because it's ridiculously pay to win, but at least they let you gain reputation with all factions.

Well there's pros and cons to both sides. Having it become not account bound makes the choice much less meaningful. With PvE creature factions like minotaurs/gargoyles, its safe to do it with these choices.

benczi
06-05-2013, 02:33 AM
We're going to have to get used to being unable to be able to play side in the game, because Cory is pretty deadset on "NO ONE ACCOUNT CAN HAVE EVERY CARD IN THE GAME." :)

I can tell you now, that at least 9 accounts WILL have all the cards in the game.

Kami
06-05-2013, 04:48 AM
I believe the official word from the stream chat was that factions will not be account-bound, it will be character-bound however.

Hm... actually, I may have misremembered this.

I would assume it would be character-bound however. It wouldn't make sense for it to be account-bound.

jai151
06-05-2013, 05:20 AM
I can tell you now, that at least 9 accounts WILL have all the cards in the game.

Read the tier again. All non-exclusive cards =P

Verdant
06-05-2013, 05:25 AM
It wouldn't make sense for it to be account-bound.
It depends. In account-bound system you make the choice once and get exclusive cards from desired faction for all characters (at least I guess so). Character-bound system won't be relevant unless all the cards are bound to the specific champions without the possibility of inner trade.

benczi
06-05-2013, 05:30 AM
Read the tier again. All non-exclusive cards =P

And exactly what exclusive cards will there be that they will not get? none. there is no such thing (atm). they will get it all.

they will get 4 of the every non exclusive cards, and all of the exclusive ones as well.

jai151
06-05-2013, 05:33 AM
And exactly what exclusive cards will there be that they will not get? none. there is no such thing (atm). they will get it all.

they will get 4 of the every non exclusive cards, and all of the exclusive ones as well.

They still have to choose squirrel or dinosaur, for one.

EDIT: Of course if I'm worng, I get a squirrel and a dinosaur too, so score.

Turtlewing
06-05-2013, 07:22 AM
It depends. In account-bound system you make the choice once and get exclusive cards from desired faction for all characters (at least I guess so). Character-bound system won't be relevant unless all the cards are bound to the specific champions without the possibility of inner trade.

It should work like the cards from equipment sets (need to be equipped to use the card), your character can't use the card unless they have the faction requirement.

Honestly I'm of the opinion that they should ditch the faction concept if they can't make it character bound. Having major things like this account bound just doesn't make sense unless they want us making a dozen account each (to try out various faction combinations).

Hieronymous
06-05-2013, 07:23 AM
Yah, I'm going to want to re-try different dungeons from different factions to see different storylines.

facade
06-05-2013, 07:36 AM
I'm also hoping they reverse their policy on factions tied to the account rather than the character. Currently there are 48 different race/class combinations. Making factions tied to the character will encourage replaying the campaigns with different characters.

I'd even accept further restrictions on what cards a champion may use (like whether a champion is allowed ardent vs. underworld, or restrictions based on color) if CZE lets factions tied to the champion level instead of the account.

Vibraxus
06-05-2013, 08:37 AM
It depends. In account-bound system you make the choice once and get exclusive cards from desired faction for all characters (at least I guess so). Character-bound system won't be relevant unless all the cards are bound to the specific champions without the possibility of inner trade.

Id be fine with that.

jai151
06-05-2013, 08:43 AM
Id be fine with that.

Yeah, but the question is how hard it would be to implement since all other cards would be in a shared pool.

Vibraxus
06-05-2013, 08:50 AM
Yeah, but the question is how hard it would be to implement since all other cards would be in a shared pool.

Not too hard really. The exclusive faction cards get a symbol, and an internal flag as being "(rep) faction only. Your mercenary gets flagged as <insert faction> and thus has access to its said cards. Its really nothing more than a flag much like a threshold flag.

Turtlewing
06-05-2013, 08:52 AM
Yeah, but the question is how hard it would be to implement since all other cards would be in a shared pool.

They're already doing similar with cards created by equipment set bonuses (champ meeds the set to have access to the card). The faction cards would simply not be available for a deck that doesn't belong to a character with the correct faction.

Tyrfang
06-05-2013, 08:58 AM
From a lore perspective, it makes sense... your keep is the origin of all these heroes. If two factions are mortal enemies, you can't exactly play both sides.

Ideally, I'd like a system where your character locks into a faction, but you total reputation is tracked at the account level. So ThisDude of Badassery Keep is part of the Ashen Gargoyles, while ThisOtherDude of Baddasery Keep is part of the Minotaurs, and then Baddasery Keep has reputation with both.

ShaolinRaven
06-05-2013, 08:58 AM
I would also prefer the factions to be character bound as opposed to account. Just flag that specific champion as being part of a faction and grey out or just not show any cards in my collection from an opposing faction that the champion in question would not be able to use.

MugenMusou
06-05-2013, 09:30 AM
I must agree with majority here. If we buy a game, it may make sense to limit one character to a certain faction. But locking entire account to it seems unnessary and don't really see any benefit in terms of giving a player fun.

If they want to provide some bonus based on the faction e.g. Arden players get +10,000 gold this month because they won more games compared to Underworld, then it should be monthly selection i.e. player can choose tis month I go with Arden.

Thelaasa
06-05-2013, 09:48 AM
Figured I'd chime in with my 2 cents on this topic. My personal opinion is that any and all exclusive rewards that are awarded in game, such as the special cards that are awarded by faction reputation, should be locked on a character level only. If the dev's cannot get that to work for whatever reason, I would rather have them remove the faction system entirely, including the reward cards, rather than having them locked to an account level choice.

This directly affects replayability of the PvE campaign. The more ways you can play through the game differently, the more incentive people have to play through the entire game again. If I am just playing through the game again with a different champion/deck, then there isn't a whole lot of reason to keep going, as I would just be experiencing all of the exact same, identical content I have already seen. Allowing different characters to choose different factions allows for some meaningful character development choices, for those of us who care about that, and gives players the chance to be able to acquire all of the rewards on different characters. This would be an system that would provide a form of reward for both the role players and the collectors in our community.

Personally, I feel that locking an option to an account level choice should be an ultimate last resort type of action, not the default. I will still continue to support the dev's, and this game, with whatever choice they make in regards to factions, as it really is just a small part of the PvE side of the game. That said, for some people, that small part can have a big impact on how they feel about the game, and how long they continue to play the game. It is my understanding, from watching the twitch video, that the current plan is to lock in game faction choices, not the ardent/underworld, but rather the smaller unaligned factions, to an account level, and I think that is the worst possible choice that could be made with regards to in game factions.

jai151
06-05-2013, 09:48 AM
They're already doing similar with cards created by equipment set bonuses (champ meeds the set to have access to the card). The faction cards would simply not be available for a deck that doesn't belong to a character with the correct faction.

Except that's not how those cards work. The equipment set bonus cards are placed in your deck at the beginning of a match. They do not exist in your library.

Turtlewing
06-05-2013, 09:55 AM
Except that's not how those cards work. The equipment set bonus cards are placed in your deck at the beginning of a match. They do not exist in your library.

The faction specific cards don't need to exist in your collection either. They could just be added if your character has the faction level for them.

larryhl
06-05-2013, 09:59 AM
Figured I'd chime in with my 2 cents on this topic. My personal opinion is that any and all exclusive rewards that are awarded in game, such as the special cards that are awarded by faction reputation, should be locked on a character level only. If the dev's cannot get that to work for whatever reason, I would rather have them remove the faction system entirely, including the reward cards, rather than having them locked to an account level choice.

This directly affects replayability of the PvE campaign. The more ways you can play through the game differently, the more incentive people have to play through the entire game again. If I am just playing through the game again with a different champion/deck, then there isn't a whole lot of reason to keep going, as I would just be experiencing all of the exact same, identical content I have already seen. Allowing different characters to choose different factions allows for some meaningful character development choices, for those of us who care about that, and gives players the chance to be able to acquire all of the rewards on different characters. This would be an system that would provide a form of reward for both the role players and the collectors in our community.

Personally, I feel that locking an option to an account level choice should be an ultimate last resort type of action, not the default. I will still continue to support the dev's, and this game, with whatever choice they make in regards to factions, as it really is just a small part of the PvE side of the game. That said, for some people, that small part can have a big impact on how they feel about the game, and how long they continue to play the game. It is my understanding, from watching the twitch video, that the current plan is to lock in game faction choices, not the ardent/underworld, but rather the smaller unaligned factions, to an account level, and I think that is the worst possible choice that could be made with regards to in game factions.

Yes, yes, a THOUSAND times yes!

facade
06-05-2013, 10:00 AM
From a lore perspective, it makes sense... your keep is the origin of all these heroes. If two factions are mortal enemies, you can't exactly play both sides.


Personally, as valuable as the lore is to world building and appreciation of the overall aesthetics , I always feel there has to be a line drawn so that the story doesn't get in the way of the fun. And making factions track at the account level has several costs to different types of players:
- Collectors would be bummed in not being able to get every single card
- Fans of the lore will be disappointed that they can't experience every single story.
- OCD gamers will always regret making the wrong decision (I speak from experience; I am never happy when a game forces me to make an irrevocable decision that has large impacts on game play. I often spend hours researching all the costs and benefits, and I still am rarely happy with my decision.)

I appreciate the thought of making player-choice matter, but limiting players from fully experiencing all aspects of the game is too big of a cost.

larryhl
06-05-2013, 10:15 AM
Everyone is making extremely valid arguments as to why factions should be tied to the character and not the account. I only hope CZE listens.

Mistborn
06-05-2013, 10:25 AM
We really need clarification on the Crypto! 2 days to go.

incitfulmonk21
06-05-2013, 10:32 AM
Everyone is making extremely valid arguments as to why factions should be tied to the character and not the account. I only hope CZE listens.

Luckily the precedent they have established is to listen to the community. I know they wan't that feeling of exclusivity but locking an entire account into one or even a few factions sounds absolutely miserable, especially as they open up new factions in later sets.

Kami
06-05-2013, 10:43 AM
They still have to choose squirrel or dinosaur, for one.

EDIT: Of course if I'm worng, I get a squirrel and a dinosaur too, so score.

From one of the interviews, this has me wondering as well. Will we have to choose? :/

Moondancer
06-05-2013, 11:09 AM
Really hope this gets cleared up on weather i can make both ardent and underworld heroes on the same account and if i can play with others that of opposite factions.

Hieronymous
06-05-2013, 11:18 AM
This just seems like it's going to be awkward. I'm going to have to make a second account just to get the content and storylines I'm getting locked out of on my main account?

RobHaven
06-05-2013, 11:24 AM
I fully understand - and mostly share - everyone's concerns, but before you start hoisting banners and preparing to march, consider:

1) We have no idea what, exactly, is locked at the account level. This needs purple clarification.
2) We don't know *why* they want to lock content. Again, this needs purple clarification.
3) If faction-specific content is locked, that sucks. Is it enough to turn you off to the whole game? Maybe you think it's a poor design decision, but obviously Crypto disagrees if they're implementing it. I fully support voicing your displeasure with the system as we currently know it, but I'd like to get a lot more information before I'm willing to pass full judgment one way or the other.

Sergan
06-05-2013, 11:26 AM
After reading over the Twitch.TV FAQ tonight
Where i can read that?

Hieronymous
06-05-2013, 11:29 AM
I fully understand - and mostly share - everyone's concerns, but before you start hoisting banners and preparing to march, consider:

1) We have no idea what, exactly, is locked at the account level. This needs purple clarification.
2) We don't know *why* they want to lock content. Again, this needs purple clarification.
3) If faction-specific content is locked, that sucks. Is it enough to turn you off to the whole game? Maybe you think it's a poor design decision, but obviously Crypto disagrees if they're implementing it. I fully support voicing your displeasure with the system as we currently know it, but I'd like to get a lot more information before I'm willing to pass full judgment one way or the other.


Yeah, I just want more detail at this point. It could end up being annoying though since some of the kickstarter tier bonuses (Raid Leader, Dungeon Crawler) are account-bound.

Otherwise I'm just not sure it's an effective design decision. People will just make second accounts and transfer enough cards to those accounts to beat the content in question then transfer back. It seems like all it's really going to do is make annoying work for players without really accomplishing much.

facade
06-05-2013, 11:34 AM
I fully understand - and mostly share - everyone's concerns, but before you start hoisting banners and preparing to march, consider .... If faction-specific content is locked, that sucks. Is it enough to turn you off to the whole game? Maybe you think it's a poor design decision, but obviously Crypto disagrees if they're implementing it. I fully support voicing your displeasure with the system as we currently know it, but I'd like to get a lot more information before I'm willing to pass full judgment one way or the other.


I appreciate your moderation, but forum members are crafting reasonable arguments based on what has already been said (that it will be impossible to get all cards and factions are decided at the account level which will lock out other factions). Though you are for a "wait and see" approach, I say now is the time to voice our concerns while the game is still in Alpha and changes can still be feasibly made.

RobHaven
06-05-2013, 11:39 AM
I meant that to be more of a "demand answers" than a "wait and see" kind of thing. Sorry if that was unclear.

I think we should be demanding answers BEFORE we demand change.

larryhl
06-05-2013, 11:41 AM
I meant that to be more of a "demand answers" than a "wait and see" kind of thing. Sorry if that was unclear.

I think we should be demanding answers BEFORE we demand change.

Quite sure we're demanding both and not getting either at this point.

Merir
06-05-2013, 11:42 AM
Agreeing with everyone here. Locking factions to account sounds like a horribly un-fun mechanic, simply forcing people to make a second account to experience everything. And there's no money for Crypto in that, it's just unnecessary hassle to players. I hope this gets commented on in the next update, and we find out that factions are locked to characters instead of account.

RobHaven
06-05-2013, 11:51 AM
Quite sure we're demanding both and not getting either at this point.

I guess I'm fine with that. I'm 100% on board for marching with you if we do get answers and they suck. Mind you I'll readily accept any not-what-I-want answer if they can properly justify it, but if I had to guess I'd say it's strictly a Keep lore thing. And given the lack of activity in the "let's add lore to Keeps" thread, I'd say this isn't a priority for most people.

Vibraxus
06-05-2013, 12:03 PM
Depending on the answers, I can see this becoming a potential deal breaker for some, or just a nightmare for CZE and tons of extra accounts.

First lets say (Hope) that we can have multiple Champions (confirmed) and those different champs can belong to either "main" faction Ardent/Underworld. If this part is locked, that is HUGE and WILL cause people to make multiple accounts, something CZE says they do not want.

Next, lets clarify if by faction are we talking the main faction, or just the "mini" factions like the Hired Horns Vs the Ashen. Again if these decisions are account based, you will have as many combinations of "factions" you can possibly combine as new accounts created per person to play each possible twist.

Seriously, it would be crazy to limit the PvErs to only 1 mini faction, and or main faction. I think it would be fair to limit any individual mercenary and/or champion to the decision they make. SO my "main" champion cant become both Ashen and Horn, and cant use its opposing mini faction cards. I get to play the game again as the other faction(s) on different champions/mercenaries and enjoy the stories/lore of the other side without the need to make a new account each and every time I want to try a different storyline....that is unless CSE will let all my Grand King bonuses carry over to any new account Id need to make to play em all....

Hieronymous
06-05-2013, 12:10 PM
One way this could be fine is if

1) it's only the mini factions, not ardent/underworld

2) there's only faction gain, not faction loss. i.e., you can gain faction with Cartographers by having your Champions do X, y, and Z, but nothing any of your champions do will piss off Cartographers and lock you out of content.

Otherwise people are just going to smurf up dummy accounts and that's annoying.

Lochar
06-05-2013, 12:10 PM
The Cory phone is either down or busy, as I can't get through to ask. I'll try again later.

larryhl
06-05-2013, 12:12 PM
One way this could be fine is if

1) it's only the mini factions, not ardent/underworld

It has already been confirmed that accounts aren't locked to Ardent/Underworld. However, being locked to Ashen/Hired Horns and then specific event only factions is the issue here.

RobHaven
06-05-2013, 12:18 PM
Depending on the answers, I can see this becoming a potential deal breaker for some, or just a nightmare for CZE and tons of extra accounts.

Let's just assume that - from the Crypto side - this is a Keep lore based issue. Would you accept the following trade-off: You manage two keeps, but upgrades only apply to one? So either you have to choose which upgrade goes where or you have to earn upgrades to/for a specific keep. This way your champions can earn rep for their Keep in the proper alignment with the Whatever Group, but you'll also be segregating your forces based on faction (which is what I assume Crypto ultimately wants).

The only other logical reason for forcing the split is that eventually players on the two sides will be pitted against each other. If that's the case, I say make the first choice lock your account's alignment, but don't stop later characters from choosing different paths.

Turtlewing
06-05-2013, 12:18 PM
One way this could be fine is if

1) it's only the mini factions, not ardent/underworld

2) there's only faction gain, not faction loss. i.e., you can gain faction with Cartographers by having your Champions do X, y, and Z, but nothing any of your champions do will piss off Cartographers and lock you out of content.

Otherwise people are just going to smurf up dummy accounts and that's annoying.

I'd say 1 is even worse. There will be more possible combinations of factions meaning more incentive to make a large number of dummy accounts.

As for 2, that contradicts what they've said about the factions and how some of them are mutually exclusive (to make one happy you have to piss off the other).

houjix
06-05-2013, 12:20 PM
The only major concern for me is if that end faction reward is significantly better for one faction over the other. If it's as simple as Hired Horns give you 3/3 named Bob, but the other gives you a 3/3 named Steve, I really don't care.

larryhl
06-05-2013, 12:23 PM
The only major concern for me is if that end faction reward is significantly better for one faction over the other. If it's as simple as Hired Horns give you 3/3 named Bob, but the other gives you a 3/3 named Steve, I really don't care.

Yes, if this is the case, I really don't care either...but the two factions are so differently themed that I'm almost 100% sure this isn't the case (you have mercenaries vs assassins for crying out loud!)

Vorpal
06-05-2013, 12:28 PM
I really hope people who choose to play ardent can play co-op content together with people who choose to play underworld.

If not, people will definitely be making multiple accounts.

Fleckenwhatever
06-05-2013, 01:11 PM
I would be willing to believe that this is a simple nomenclature issue that needs clarification. I'd been thinking that this is like an Aldor/Scryer rep system; if you're favored by one, you're in the doghouse with the other. I do agree that it'd be disheartening to have that selection be account-wide, but you'd otherwise have to be pretty granular on the card level. Maybe (and I can't recall if this suggestion was made in this thread) have each champion's faction choice flag the reward cards from entities that dislike you as illegal-for-use while deck building?

larryhl
06-05-2013, 01:13 PM
I would be willing to believe that this is a simple nomenclature issue that needs clarification. I'd been thinking that this is like an Aldor/Scryer rep system; if you're favored by one, you're in the doghouse with the other. I do agree that it'd be disheartening to have that selection be account-wide, but you'd otherwise have to be pretty granular on the card level. Maybe (and I can't recall if this suggestion was made in this thread) have each champion's faction choice flag the reward cards from entities that dislike you as illegal-for-use while deck building?

Yes, that has been mentioned as the most favored way to keep factions separated by character.

larryhl
06-05-2013, 01:35 PM
It's been confirmed multiple times that players can play both Ardent/Underworld on one account. The real question here is whether NPC factions like Hired Horns/The Ashen are locked to account.

Tyrfang
06-05-2013, 01:37 PM
According to a livestream, Cory said they are considering having two keeps per account (one for Argent, and one for Underworld), but it's not finalized yet.

Madican
06-05-2013, 01:38 PM
I don't like having choices be accountwide. This is going to be a TCG: Trading Card Game. I want to own one of every card because that's the whole point of playing them. Being told I have to pick between one without ever having the other goes against the nature of a TCG.

Let people trade them on the AH, make them unusable for people without the reputation even, but let me collect.

ramseytheory
06-05-2013, 01:38 PM
Word of god from the livestream: you can definitely have Ardent and Underworld champions on the same account.

larryhl
06-05-2013, 01:38 PM
"One account will be able to encompass all major decisions you will want to make in the game." - Cory

The master speaks. THANK YOU!

Madican
06-05-2013, 01:41 PM
But that can mean any number of things. It could mean every major decision will be account-wide or we'll be able to make the different choices for each major decision with individual characters and have it be account-wide.

Vibraxus
06-05-2013, 01:41 PM
"One account will be able to encompass all major decisions you will want to make in the game." - Cory

The master speaks. THANK YOU!

That is great to hear. It is open for some wiggle room, but hey its great to have some confirmation. :)

S117
06-05-2013, 01:43 PM
*Whew*...A load off my mind...

But would "Major Decisions" then mean you can still be out-of-favor with some of the minor factions?

larryhl
06-05-2013, 01:46 PM
What he basically said is he doesn't want to get in the way of collecting cards, since it's still a TCG. They're still working on how the details for that will work (because it affects story in a major way), but they don't want to lock you out of making/using that huge collection.

Madican
06-05-2013, 01:51 PM
Oh thank goodness. Collecting is my favorite part of TCG's. I want one of every card if at all possible.

incitfulmonk21
06-05-2013, 03:37 PM
The question of whether helping one minor faction will lock you out of a different minor faction hasn't really been answered. Depends on the definition of a major choice. In the end a very specific you can have one character part of the hired horns and another character on the same account in the Ashen answer would be appreciated..

Sanik
06-05-2013, 03:39 PM
A player's selection of Ardent or Underworld factions is tied to the creation of a new character in PVE.

Currently, the way factions like Ashen/Hired Horns work is that they do become tied to a player's account. We want these reputation choices to be meaningful for players, but there's been a lot of great discussion and feedback in this thread. I've passed it along to the R&D team to review.

incitfulmonk21
06-05-2013, 03:41 PM
A player's selection of Ardent or Underworld factions is tied to the creation of a new character in PVE.

Currently, the way factions like Ashen/Hired Horns work is that they do become tied to a player's account. We want these reputation choices to be meaningful for players, but there's been a lot of great discussion and feedback in this thread. I've passed it along to the R&D team to review.

Thank you so much for the answer.

Lochar
06-05-2013, 03:42 PM
A player's selection of Ardent or Underworld factions is tied to the creation of a new character in PVE.

Currently, the way factions like Ashen/Hired Horns work is that they do become tied to a player's account. We want these reputation choices to be meaningful for players, but there's been a lot of great discussion and feedback in this thread. I've passed it along to the R&D team to review.

Again, I need a Thank You button.

Here's to hoping they'll let us get the cards and then lock them to the champion that actually took the time to do the factioning. I'll do an entire faction quest series eight times for eight different champions if I want to use it. Lots of MMOs play it that way. :)

Turtlewing
06-05-2013, 03:45 PM
A player's selection of Ardent or Underworld factions is tied to the creation of a new character in PVE.

Currently, the way factions like Ashen/Hired Horns work is that they do become tied to a player's account. We want these reputation choices to be meaningful for players, but there's been a lot of great discussion and feedback in this thread. I've passed it along to the R&D team to review.

In that case the question becomes: what do reputations do?

The main thing people (myself included) seem to want is not to be locked out of content because we made a choice in one play-through of some bit of content. We want to be able to find and try all the different permutations without having to make a new account.

Some are also turned off by the idea that one account can't have all the cards. I think here the "pokemon" approach is probably OK (no one account can unlock every card, but you can trade with others to get the ones you can't unlock yourself). But I'm less in this camp so I don't want to speak for them.

Gorgol
06-05-2013, 03:47 PM
A player's selection of Ardent or Underworld factions is tied to the creation of a new character in PVE.

Currently, the way factions like Ashen/Hired Horns work is that they do become tied to a player's account. We want these reputation choices to be meaningful for players, but there's been a lot of great discussion and feedback in this thread. I've passed it along to the R&D team to review.

Thank you so much! This alleviates my main concern.

Vibraxus
06-05-2013, 03:48 PM
A player's selection of Ardent or Underworld factions is tied to the creation of a new character in PVE.

Currently, the way factions like Ashen/Hired Horns work is that they do become tied to a player's account. We want these reputation choices to be meaningful for players, but there's been a lot of great discussion and feedback in this thread. I've passed it along to the R&D team to review.

Thank you for the confirmation. :)
Not the answer Im looking for, and I do hope the "minor" factions and their exclusive cards can be locked to the champion(s) who sides with the minor ones like Ashen. And Im allowed to side a different champion to the Horns, that gets locked in to the Horns.

MugenMusou
06-05-2013, 03:49 PM
Oh thank goodness. Collecting is my favorite part of TCG's. I want one of every card if at all possible.

Sounds like you got better control than I do. I like collecting and I try the playset... But since I don't play all cards, there is no point of doing so. Hopefully with HEX, I can change my collector's mentality to 1 of each as well.


A player's selection of Ardent or Underworld factions is tied to the creation of a new character in PVE.

Currently, the way factions like Ashen/Hired Horns work is that they do become tied to a player's account. We want these reputation choices to be meaningful for players, but there's been a lot of great discussion and feedback in this thread. I've passed it along to the R&D team to review.

Great decision. This is why I love Cryptozoic. Now do we know if they have lifted the Arena choice as well? I.e. we can choose Dinosaur for one champion but Squarrel for the other?

larryhl
06-05-2013, 04:48 PM
Here's hoping R&D greenlights letting the Ashen/Hired Horns be tied to characters as well. I want to get all the cards.

NoahBuddy
06-05-2013, 05:10 PM
thanks sanik. why can't the minor factions be tied to champs as well? then any faction cards or bonus will only be usable by champs with the minimum required faction rep.

Talreth
06-05-2013, 05:59 PM
I dunno, Cory already said he wanted the player to have to make tough, meaningful decisions and also that it would be impossible for every card in the game to be on one account.

Turtlewing
06-05-2013, 06:10 PM
I dunno, Cory already said he wanted the player to have to make tough, meaningful decisions and also that it would be impossible for every card in the game to be on one account.

True, but that was before the heavily negative feedback came in. Hard to know how it'll play out.

Tyrfang
06-05-2013, 06:20 PM
Making mountains out of molehills...

KnowingCrow
06-05-2013, 06:22 PM
Making mountains out of molehills...

Not being able to collect them all in a collectable cardgame is hardly a molehill.

SealFate
06-05-2013, 06:48 PM
Not being able to collect them all in a collectable cardgame is hardly a molehill.

And you gotta catch them all! ...... I mean collect them all :-)

Tyrfang
06-05-2013, 06:57 PM
We already know there will be mercenaries that are exclusive.

There are set bonus cards that are only unlocked while you have that set equipped.

I don't see how locking faction-based PvE cards is going to make that much of a difference.

I guess a compromise would be to allow an Underworld Keep and Argent keep for your account, so you can do both sides.

There's still an issue of the 3-sided arena, but whatever...