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TheWrathofShane
06-05-2013, 06:01 AM
Seriously, thats how jace the mind sculptor and skullclamp happened. Both resulted in horribly warped formats and banning shortly after.

Patrigan
06-05-2013, 06:03 AM
Seriously, thats how jace the mind sculptor and skullclamp happened. Both resulted in horribly warped formats and banning shortly after.

But they can still rectify the situation here. Erratas are a lot easier to do.

TheWrathofShane
06-05-2013, 06:03 AM
But they can still rectify the situation here. Erratas are a lot easier to do.

So true. LOL Nerf patches for a card game!

Rapkannibale
06-05-2013, 06:05 AM
Although possible, Cory has said that they want to avoid these kind of nerfs at all costs. They would rather ban a card in certain formats. This is a bit controversial I guess but the thinking is that it is much harder to gauge the value of a card when it could be changed anytime.

FranzVonG
06-05-2013, 06:11 AM
mhh, banning a card from a format will reduce its value nonetheless. I hope that they will take full advantage of the digital format to avoid any kind of errata/ban list. Just change the card in the next patch and so be it.

Fireblast
06-05-2013, 06:11 AM
It's really a case by case issue.
A chase rare that gets banned will lose value.
It also could lose more value than if it was nerfed but remained playable.

Let's assume the Vampire King becomes a chase card and he was 4/4, banning him would be worse than nerfing him to 3/4 or 3/3, "valuewise".

~

tgm0112
06-05-2013, 06:13 AM
I agree with Franz. Both change value but only one makes it less visible.

Verdant
06-05-2013, 06:16 AM
I'd rather see cards banned without changes, otherwise it's gonna be Diablo 3 attack speed nerf storm all over again. "I bought this card for real money and don't you dare do something with it or I'll sue the last pants off you".

Patrigan
06-05-2013, 06:17 AM
Although possible, Cory has said that they want to avoid these kind of nerfs at all costs. They would rather ban a card in certain formats. This is a bit controversial I guess but the thinking is that it is much harder to gauge the value of a card when it could be changed anytime.

I'd rather have my card erratad than to have it banned. Banend cards quickly lose a lot of their value, erratad cards might go from overpowered to just strong.
Example:
Magic: If Chrome Mox costed one it would still be very strong, but it won't allow for crazy turn 1 plays anymore. (per comparison hex released similar cards on the stream, one giving extra mana and the other extra treshold, both had a higher cost).
WoWTCG: If Grlmrgl needed 9 or even 10 damage, it would be a lot more difficult to win early with it, becoming more a "win-more"
WoWTCG: They banned Winterveil Disguise Kit, because it was erratad and had a strong functional change. In Hex, this errata would be properly reflected, preventing confusion from newer players.

Online games do it all the time, in fact buffs and nerfs are the norm to keep the metagame changing. Yes, a cardgame has new sets forn that, but why can't they buff and nerf cards in between? Remember, if you nerf, you can buff. I don't think anyone would complain about a buff to a card that would enable a new fun archetype to enter the tier 1 gauntlet. This card would subsequentially also raise in value.

It's something interesting to consider.

TheWrathofShane
06-05-2013, 06:19 AM
Although possible, Cory has said that they want to avoid these kind of nerfs at all costs. They would rather ban a card in certain formats. This is a bit controversial I guess but the thinking is that it is much harder to gauge the value of a card when it could be changed anytime.

This is very true.

TheWrathofShane
06-05-2013, 06:22 AM
I'd rather have my card erratad than to have it banned. Banend cards quickly lose a lot of their value, erratad cards might go from overpowered to just strong.
Example:
Magic: If Chrome Mox costed one it would still be very strong, but it won't allow for crazy turn 1 plays anymore. (per comparison hex released similar cards on the stream, one giving extra mana and the other extra treshold, both had a higher cost).
WoWTCG: If Grlmrgl needed 9 or even 10 damage, it would be a lot more difficult to win early with it, becoming more a "win-more"
WoWTCG: They banned Winterveil Disguise Kit, because it was erratad and had a strong functional change. In Hex, this errata would be properly reflected, preventing confusion from newer players.

Online games do it all the time, in fact buffs and nerfs are the norm to keep the metagame changing. Yes, a cardgame has new sets forn that, but why can't they buff and nerf cards in between? Remember, if you nerf, you can buff. I don't think anyone would complain about a buff to a card that would enable a new fun archetype to enter the tier 1 gauntlet. This card would subsequentially also raise in value.

It's something interesting to consider.

I would be okay with nerfs only if it was a very rare occurrence and absolutely needed. People make mistakes, thats how the MTG ban-lists happen. It depends but I am sure hex will make the best decisions for the good of the game and be very careful balancing out the PvP cards.

Patrigan
06-05-2013, 06:25 AM
I would be okay with nerfs only if it was a very rare occurrence and absolutely needed. People make mistakes, thats how the MTG ban-lists happen. It depends but I am sure hex will make the best decisions for the good of the game and be very careful balancing out the PvP cards.

The team behind hex has a long history of making card games. WoWTCG only introduced its first bans in the past year. So i have very good faith that bans aren't necessary soon. I would like to see buffs though, if a concept is really cool, but not constructed viable because the asting cost was estimated too high, then I hope they lower the casting cost. This would increase the value of the card (and of all the cards in the deck) and it would increase the number of tier 1 decks.

Obviously, buffing a deck might make another deck too weak to compete, so this should still be done carefully.

TheWrathofShane
06-05-2013, 06:25 AM
I'd rather see cards banned without changes, otherwise it's gonna be Diablo 3 attack speed nerf storm all over again. "I bought this card for real money and don't you dare do something with it or I'll sue the last pants off you".

Diablo 3 was the biggest letdown of my life :(

TheWrathofShane
06-05-2013, 06:27 AM
The team behind hex has a long history of making card games. WoWTCG only introduced its first bans in the past year. So i have very good faith that bans aren't necessary soon. I would like to see buffs though, if a concept is really cool, but not constructed viable because the cost was estimated too high, I hope they lower the cost.


In theory the entry fee for competitive PvP should be half the price for MTG, because booster packs are half the price.

Edit: Doh! You were referring to mana cost not dollar cost.

Fireblast
06-05-2013, 06:35 AM
The team behind hex has a long history of making card games. WoWTCG only introduced its first bans in the past year. So i have very good faith that bans aren't necessary soon. I would like to see buffs though, if a concept is really cool, but not constructed viable because the asting cost was estimated too high, then I hope they lower the casting cost. This would increase the value of the card (and of all the cards in the deck) and it would increase the number of tier 1 decks.

Obviously, buffing a deck might make another deck too weak to compete, so this should still be done carefully.

Buffs are not necessary, if you wanna buff a card you just design its better version in a new set with a new name.

It's important to have better and worse cards so you really make choices when building a deck (either Limited or Constructed)

~

Patrigan
06-05-2013, 06:36 AM
Buffs are not necessary, if you wanna buff a card you just design its better version in a new set with a new name.

~

The problem there is that people will cry about the power creep and making their older cards less valuable.

but ti's certainly not a bad point. Probably good to keep the updates in between sets to a minimum.

TheWrathofShane
06-05-2013, 06:38 AM
Buffs are not necessary, if you wanna buff a card you just design its better version in a new set with a new name.

It's important to have better and worse cards so you really make choices when building a deck (either Limited or Constructed)

~


All tho nobody likes limited fillers, it is a TCG so the good rares have to be stronger then the other things. Otherwise you always get that "bad rare" feeling.

I REALLY like how they are putting the socket thing on the vanilla 4/4 for 5. It makes it so much more fun to get a limited filler.

Rapkannibale
06-05-2013, 07:03 AM
Banning wouldn't necessarily be the end of for chase card. The awesomeness of the digital space is that it would be easy to create different formats where different cards are allowed and you will have an easier time finding other people that want to play in that format.

Taking the Magic example as has already been done here: Black Lotus is illegal in most formats, including the most popular ones like Standard and Modern. However that didn't make the Black Lotus worthless did it?

Other than the fact that these cards have collector value, there are formats where people are free to use these cards. So even if they had to ban a card (which would happen very rarely that a card is so broken it has to be banned), they could have a format where all cards are allowed.

I really don't think there is one right solution for this, but I am sure the folks at CZE are very aware of this and have put a lot of thought into it. Me personally I'm just going to trust their judgement. I will enjoy the game either way. :)