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Rapkannibale
06-05-2013, 07:24 AM
Hi all,

For those of you who watched last night's stream you got to see the Inspiration Engine (http://hextcg.gamepedia.com/Inspiration_Engine) in action.

Now they said that it can create a random artifact from any artifact in the set. My question is, how will this work once there are more than one set? Will it still only pull from set 1, or from all sets ever printed. Or maybe just from the sets that are legal in the format you are currently playing?

If it turns out that all sets are included it will become more and more of a gamble and basically just a "fun" card, not really viable in constructed (maybe it's not even viable right now due to its randomness).

If a dev could chip in that would be great.

Other than that, what do you folks think?

Indormi
06-05-2013, 07:31 AM
I found it a great card to tease the stream with. If you noticed they were saying not "azumi?" (most likely a legendary artifact troop), is a great card to show some Set1 artifact spoilers with.

On the competive part, random is random, there more likely be a deck that may be "viable" with random variable cards, that can win you the game if you have luck. It is not consistent but if it you get a good roll early, it can be GG

Verdant
06-05-2013, 07:33 AM
I think it's perfectly viable if you're into that sort of mechanics. Engine is cheap, doesn't take resources and requires just a little early attention to basically gamble your way through. Yeah, it enforces card disadvantage early game, but it's sapphire for you - we're yet to see an aggro blue in HEX...

Pwn1nP3nquin
06-05-2013, 07:35 AM
Well first off, they will have to fix the loop they encountered during their games yesterday. Ben said he was going to get with the "technical guy" to fix that. It looked like once the "Inspiration Engine" generated an artifact for a turn, if it was played again on that same turn, it would produce the same artifact over and over again.

As for its functionality, I think it would be more viable if it created a random artifact from the available cards in your deck. This way, you could plan at least some sort of strategy around the card and it would become more useful. This would also eliminate the set problems you brought up. I guess this is a slippery slope though, as this card could become very powerful if this change was implemented.

Proziam
06-05-2013, 07:46 AM
Well first off, they will have to fix the loop they encountered during their games yesterday. Ben said he was going to get with the "technical guy" to fix that. It looked like once the "Inspiration Engine" generated an artifact for a turn, if it was played again on that same turn, it would produce the same artifact over and over again.

As for its functionality, I think it would be more viable if it created a random artifact from the available cards in your deck. This way, you could plan at least some sort of strategy around the card and it would become more useful. This would also eliminate the set problems you brought up. I guess this is a slippery slope though, as this card could become very powerful if this change was implemented.

Easy way to limit it's power is to limit it's number of total uses. That keeps the card relevant by giving you the potential to do big things with it early, while still limiting it's ability to become OP by stopping it from just feeding you powerful card after card until the game ends.

Rapkannibale
06-05-2013, 07:48 AM
As for its functionality, I think it would be more viable if it created a random artifact from the available cards in your deck. This way, you could plan at least some sort of strategy around the card and it would become more useful. This would also eliminate the set problems you brought up. I guess this is a slippery slope though, as this card could become very powerful if this change was implemented.

This would be too powerful IMO. You could just build a deck with the engine and one other artifact in your deck (like a super huge Artifact troop or something). And just pop one out each turn (or multiple per turn with the Turbine).

Pwn1nP3nquin
06-05-2013, 07:59 AM
Yes I agree. There could be many changes implemented, but it might get too complicated or confusing for players to use. Such as:

1. Putting the card into your hand, instead of automatically in play, so you have a better chance of drawing your uber troop, but still have to pay to summon him.

2. Only allowing non-troop artifacts to be summoned using this card.

3. Limit the number of uses on engine (as stated above by Proziam) or, you may only summon one copy of any artifact using the engine.

I feel like it should be changed somehow because as is, I don't see this card being very useful or predictable, and I most likely won't be using it in any of my decks.

Rapkannibale
06-05-2013, 08:06 AM
But actually my original question was not about the power level it was more about what happens when more sets are added. :) Does it create artifact from any of the sets or just the original set 1 (or a subset of sets)?

Vibraxus
06-05-2013, 08:11 AM
But actually my original question was not about the power level it was more about what happens when more sets are added. :) Does it create artifact from any of the sets or just the original set 1 (or a subset of sets)?

I hope it is every set, because I loved playing with the random effect of Faerie Dragon in Shandalar. Good times for all....well other than my son who hated when I played the card.

Showsni
06-05-2013, 08:13 AM
I was wondering that too; it has even more implications if we end up having sets rotate out or whatever. Maybe the engine will only be able to make artefacts from whatever format it's being played in.

That could also affect PvP and PvE - maybe if you use it in PvE it could produce PvE artefacts too. Like a certain Lotus...

caffn8d
06-05-2013, 08:22 AM
It's a random card. The fact that you can't min/max what you get and that there is a good chance what you pull will be useless to you keeps it from being too powerful. Given the nature of it and it's wording I'd be surprised if it didn't pull from the entire pool of artifacts over the course of the game as more come out.

ShaolinRaven
06-05-2013, 08:46 AM
Hi all,

For those of you who watched last night's stream you got to see the Inspiration Engine (http://hextcg.gamepedia.com/Inspiration_Engine) in action.

Now they said that it can create a random artifact from any artifact in the set. My question is, how will this work once there are more than one set? Will it still only pull from set 1, or from all sets ever printed. Or maybe just from the sets that are legal in the format you are currently playing?

If it turns out that all sets are included it will become more and more of a gamble and basically just a "fun" card, not really viable in constructed (maybe it's not even viable right now due to its randomness).

If a dev could chip in that would be great.

Other than that, what do you folks think?

I hope it is any artifact that is in the game because I would also like that to be true for the Grand Concubunny. So as we get multiple sets out Inspiration Engine has more and more options. Really it looks like it would only be for set 1-6 (if set 1-3 is block 1 and set 4-6 is block 2, set 7 which would start block 3 would rotate out set 1-3). That would still be 6 sets of Artifact randomness.

Fireblast
06-05-2013, 08:52 AM
sub question : Does it pull from the artifact you own or the ones that exist?

~

ShaolinRaven
06-05-2013, 08:53 AM
sub question : Does it pull from the artifact you own or the ones that exist?

~

Since it says random artifact it should be any artifact that exists, not just the ones you own because there is no disclaimer such as "random artifact in your deck" or "random artifact in your collection".

Rapkannibale
06-05-2013, 08:59 AM
sub question : Does it pull from the artifact you own or the ones that exist?

~

As far as i understood its from all that exist. Since you don't get to keep them after the game it doesn't really matter. :)

MrCwis
06-05-2013, 09:07 AM
First to the question, I believe it's going to be any legal artifact, so when more sets are released it will pull an artifact off of a list of all that could legally be played. The more artifacts the more randomness.

Next for people wanting to limit this to cards in your deck, to me thats a very physical way of thinking and has two prolems for me. First we're digital here lets do something that a physical game can't do, lets pull a random artifact out of all the possible ones that can be played, because in real life who is going to carry around multiple copies of every artifact just so they can use this. Second pulling artifacts from your deck can be extremely broken. the engine, the turbine and Argus and your opponent is dead quite quickly. not to mention all the other artifacts that can be used to block or deal damage.

jaxsonbateman
06-05-2013, 09:47 AM
I'm just going to say, the sheer potential power this has for 2 mana makes it powerful enough even with a random card. It's +1 card advantage every time you activate it, straight up. Sure, you may hit the occasional dud, but you hit that dud for free, and when you don't hit the duds you're hitting stuff that helps you win the game.

To demonstrate its power - Dan didn't use it nearly as many times as he could, as he thought he'd hit a bug when he hit all those Dwarven Turbines (which were perfect artifacts to get with the Turbine - so much card advantage!). If he'd kept using it he would have hopefully gotten another Sapper Charge. With the other two he managed to get, he could have taken out the flier using those. He could've had perhaps an even easier time though - imagine cracking out an Argus. He would have taken out the flier, and then some.

The random factor keeps it balanced, but +1 card advantage that has the potential to be game defining wincons is definitely all upside. Especially when the card itself costs only 2 mana. With a great starting hand, you can easily go T1 Journeyman Technician (+ any 1 cost artifacts), T2 Journeyman Technician into Inspiration Engine, with 1 mana spare, and the ability to play any 2 or 1 drop artifacts for free. With a God hand you could get all 10 counters on the Engine by turn 3. But even turn 5 or 6 is fine, and perfectly reasonable.

Barov
06-05-2013, 10:09 AM
Yes I agree. There could be many changes implemented, but it might get too complicated or confusing for players to use. Such as:

1. Putting the card into your hand, instead of automatically in play, so you have a better chance of drawing your uber troop, but still have to pay to summon him.

2. Only allowing non-troop artifacts to be summoned using this card.

3. Limit the number of uses on engine (as stated above by Proziam) or, you may only summon one copy of any artifact using the engine.

I feel like it should be changed somehow because as is, I don't see this card being very useful or predictable, and I most likely won't be using it in any of my decks.

Not every card has to be tournament viable. I would much rather keep engine the fun card it is now, then remove the randomness to make it playable.

Yasi
06-05-2013, 10:11 AM
Artifacts are the most useless type of cards in Hex. Go complain about something that matters.

jaxsonbateman
06-05-2013, 10:14 AM
Artifacts are the most useless type of cards in Hex. Go complain about something that matters.
This is a troll post right?

I mean, I can totally see where you're coming from. Effects aside, cards that can be played in decks of any color are totally useless. (/sarcasm for those not getting it)

Yasi
06-05-2013, 10:17 AM
This is a troll post right?

I mean, I can totally see where you're coming from. Effects aside, cards that can be played in decks of any color are totally useless. (/sarcasm for those not getting it)

You idiots are discussing over a card that basically does what the text indicates. Even if it's from set 1 or set 2 or set 9 only, the card itself is crap.

jaxsonbateman
06-05-2013, 10:21 AM
Firstly, you said artifacts are the worst kind of card - despite their obvious many upsides. While it's true that they might still be the worst, you made it sound like they're bad (as a card type), and they're clearly not.

Secondly, the card is also clearly not crap. If you read my post in particular, I explain why - +1 card advantage every time you activate it (that is, every turn after your transform it), with the potential for the card you flip into to just outright win the game (Argus anyone?). I ask you, how can you consider that crap?

But seeing as you outright called everyone idiots, I can only imagine you're a troll.

Yasi
06-05-2013, 10:22 AM
Firstly, you said artifacts are the worst kind of card - despite their obvious many upsides. While it's true that they might still be the worst, you made it sound like they're bad (as a card type), and they're clearly not.

Secondly, the card is also clearly not crap. If you read my post in particular, I explain why - +1 card advantage every time you activate it (that is, every turn after your transform it), with the potential for the card you flip into to just outright win the game (Argus anyone?). I ask you, how can you consider that crap?

But seeing as you outright called everyone idiots, I can only imagine you're a troll.

It only take 4 turns to win the game.

caffn8d
06-05-2013, 10:23 AM
I can only imagine you're a troll.

If you don't know the answer to that question already, you must be new around here. ;)

larryhl
06-05-2013, 10:23 AM
He's trolling everything, just ignore him.

jaxsonbateman
06-05-2013, 10:26 AM
If you don't know the answer to that question already, you must be new around here. ;)
Well I have twice as many posts as you. ;-) But I only frequent the forums for a few hours in the evening, so I must have missed previous posts by this person.

In any case, 4 turns to win the game? Hex doesn't have nearly the variety of cards that MTG does to allow a deck like bolt.dec or RDW to win by turn 4. Sure, even with Hex a deck might win by turn 4... if their opponent does literally nothing to try and stop them.

Yasi
06-05-2013, 10:28 AM
Well I have twice as many posts as you. ;-) But I only frequent the forums for a few hours in the evening, so I must have missed previous posts by this person.

In any case, 4 turns to win the game? Hex doesn't have nearly the variety of cards that MTG does to allow a deck like bolt.dec or RDW to win by turn 4. Sure, even with Hex a deck might win by turn 4... if their opponent does literally nothing to try and stop them.

And that's exactly what Artifact does; nothing.

MrCwis
06-05-2013, 10:34 AM
Well I have twice as many posts as you. ;-) But I only frequent the forums for a few hours in the evening, so I must have missed previous posts by this person.


You joined May 30, it's now June 5 that's 6 days. Caffen8d joined May 15, I joined May 21. So out of the 3 of us ya you're the newest. Just cause you post a lot doesn't mean you're not new. Also yes Yasi is a Troll, his posts usually go unseen as many people have put them on there ignore list.

larryhl
06-05-2013, 10:41 AM
Also yes Yasi is a Troll, his posts usually go unseen as many people have put them on there ignore list.

Thank you for reminding me about the ignore list.

jaxsonbateman
06-05-2013, 10:43 AM
I'll concede that I'm the newest in terms of date joined. But the point I was trying to make is that I've posted enough to indicate that I'm not really a greenhorn or anything on the forum - it's not like it's my first post or anything. ;-)

And despite whatever strange satisfaction you get from trolling Yasi, I'll respond just in case someone reads that post and thinks artifacts actually do nothing. Firstly, artifact troops are still troops - they still attack and block, and some offer utility. Non-troop artifacts pretty much all do something. So I can't imagine how your statement could be any more wrong.

MTree
06-05-2013, 10:43 AM
If it turns out that all sets are included it will become more and more of a gamble and basically just a "fun" card, not really viable in constructed


That's exactly what they wanted. It's a really fun and casual card but I doubt you will see it in many professional decks, except for those that are in the thrill of seeing a %10 mechanic shooting off.

If you keep up with MTG there is a mechanic in the current set called Maze End where you have to play 10 land gates and then you can tap Maze End and you win the game. It's a gimmicky, fun, and risky build but because of the risk it has a really low play rate in tournies.

jaxsonbateman
06-05-2013, 10:48 AM
That's exactly what they wanted. It's a really fun and casual card but I doubt you will see it in many professional decks, except for those that are in the thrill of seeing a %10 mechanic shooting off.

If you keep up with MTG there is a mechanic in the current set called Maze End where you have to play 10 land gates and then you can tap Maze End and you win the game. It's a gimmicky, fun, and risky build but because of the risk it has a really low play rate in tournies.
This card has competitive potential, simply because it's +1 card advantage a turn for 2 mana. Yes, it requires setting up, but the dwarven artifact deck is going to have plenty of dwarves and artifact troops to exhaust into it.

It's not really comparable to Maze's End because that requires a huge mana investment and requires you to include a large number of sub-par cards in order to have a chance at it going off. Inspiration Engine simply goes into a normal dwarven artifact deck, and requires nothing else besides that (though Dwarven Turbines will make it go off the chain).

Rapkannibale
06-05-2013, 10:59 AM
Im probably gonna build a deck around it just cos it looks like a ton of fun to see what you get each time. :)

Yasi
06-05-2013, 11:01 AM
Im probably gonna build a deck around it just cos it looks like a ton of fun to see what you get each time. :)

It's going to be ton of fun eating you up in PvP. I'm going to be stacking them PvP points from everyone making Artifact decks.

Mr.Funsocks
06-05-2013, 11:03 AM
Im probably gonna build a deck around it just cos it looks like a ton of fun to see what you get each time. :)

And if you include a bunch of those turbine things that glitched out and came in droves, you can get so much random crap each turn ;) If they have a card like twiddle or the like, you can have even more fun!

KingBlackstone
06-05-2013, 11:13 AM
It should become weaker over time as more sets are released.
This assumes that in each release, there are only a few "strong" artifacts and multiple "goblin cooking pot" artifacts. Know what I mean?

Mr.Funsocks
06-05-2013, 11:15 AM
It should become weaker over time as more sets are released.
This assumes that in each release, there are only a few "strong" artifacts and multiple "goblin cooking pot" artifacts. Know what I mean?

Well, it'll become more unpredictable. But if the ratio of useful to useless artifacts stays more or less constant, the actual power of the card wouldn't change. You probably would stop hoping for a specific artifact, and instead just hope for something good.

jaxsonbateman
06-05-2013, 11:19 AM
I'm curious if the rarity of the artifact has any bearing on the chances of actually 'flipping' into that artifact. If I'm not mistaken, every artifact that Inspiration Engine created was a common.

Mr.Funsocks
06-05-2013, 11:21 AM
I'm curious if the rarity of the artifact has any bearing on the chances of actually 'flipping' into that artifact. If I'm not mistaken, every artifact that Inspiration Engine created was a common.

Mmm, that would be an interesting point... If, for example, they wanted to make an artifact that cost 10 and required you have 8 troops in play before you play it, but its ability was "Exhaust: Win the game" (yes, completely made up and in no way meant to be serious), but you could just get a 1 in 1000 chance to pop it in with your Inspiration Engine, that might be something they exclude. It might be an ability that would have to have heavily weighted chances as the game moves forward.

Pwn1nP3nquin
06-05-2013, 12:19 PM
I'm curious if the rarity of the artifact has any bearing on the chances of actually 'flipping' into that artifact. If I'm not mistaken, every artifact that Inspiration Engine created was a common.

Unless the devs tell us the algorithm used to pick one of the artifacts, I don't think we will ever know the true answer to this question. However, based on the composition of the artifacts in the set, there is an inherently much higher chance of getting a common than a rare/lengendary artifact from the engine because there are more commons than rares.

Estar1
06-05-2013, 12:58 PM
Mmm, that would be an interesting point... If, for example, they wanted to make an artifact that cost 10 and required you have 8 troops in play before you play it, but its ability was "Exhaust: Win the game" (yes, completely made up and in no way meant to be serious), but you could just get a 1 in 1000 chance to pop it in with your Inspiration Engine, that might be something they exclude. It might be an ability that would have to have heavily weighted chances as the game moves forward.

well with some high cost cards MTG generally puts if this card was not played from hand void it/bury it this would of course waste that activatoin of inspiration engine but it can still make any artifact.

jaxsonbateman
06-05-2013, 01:20 PM
Unless the devs tell us the algorithm used to pick one of the artifacts, I don't think we will ever know the true answer to this question. However, based on the composition of the artifacts in the set, there is an inherently much higher chance of getting a common than a rare/lengendary artifact from the engine because there are more commons than rares.
Oh, for sure. Just, assuming that there wasn't an actual bug and Dan just got lucky in getting that streak of Turbines, I think he ended up getting something like 10 or more artifacts for nothing above common. Though that could've just been unlucky.