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Tyrfang
06-05-2013, 11:50 AM
What we've been waiting for, some raid info. :)

4 new card reveals (all PvE this time) as well.

http://hextcg.com/dragon-slaying/

Key points:
"Each dungeon and raid within HEX will have its own specific loot table, and while common, uncommon, and rare drops will sometimes be shared amongst various loot tables, the Legendary drops only come from one specific loot table! There are several different Legendaries per table"

"The number of cards drawn by a raid boss is equal to its respective stage. (One card at Stage 1, two at Stage 2, 3 at Stage 3.)

If the raid boss would ever draw a card while he has no cards in his deck, he shuffles up his graveyard and uses that as a new deck."

Verdant
06-05-2013, 11:53 AM
Burn decks are gonna suffer in raids :-/

Gerogero
06-05-2013, 11:54 AM
Burn decks are gonna suffer in raids :-/

What makes you say that? A burn deck could be great support. You deal with the creatures on the board while your team builds an army and smashes face.

larryhl
06-05-2013, 11:55 AM
Raid bosses can't be milled to oblivion. They can still be voided to oblivion though ;)

Madican
06-05-2013, 11:57 AM
Oh hell yes this is what I've been waiting for. PvE is looking pretty damn awesome.

Verdant
06-05-2013, 11:58 AM
What makes you say that? A burn deck could be great support. You deal with the creatures on the board while your team builds an army and smashes face.
Yeah, and that's all I can do with a burn deck in a raid - go support with removal plus occasional voids... While this certainly is a viable strategy, in my eyes it contradicts with the very nature of burn deck (which is to melt faces off bosses).


The raid boss is represented with a progression meter, ranging from 0 to 200, and starts at 100. Whenever the raid boss is dealt damage, the progression meter ticks down by 1. The actual amount of damage is not relevant, only that it is dealt any damage at all. Essentially, a Troop attacking for 10 will give -1 to the meter just as a Troop attacking for 2 will give the same. By the same token, whenever the raid boss deals damage to a Champion, his meter will tick up by 1. Again, the actual amount of damage does not matter, so any amount to a Champion will give the meter +1.

jaxsonbateman
06-05-2013, 11:59 AM
Burn decks typically suffer in *any* format that isn't the straight up race to 20. That's why conventional MTG burn decks are ill-advised in multiplayer and EDH in. Essentially, they have a very limited amount of gas, and if they don't win within around 5-7 turns max they're going to have a very hard time of it.

Edit: Void Breach is pretty sexy. It can turn a slight advantage into a major advantage (of course, unless you have the you-get-2 equipment on it probably won't help you if you're behind).

Tyrfang
06-05-2013, 12:02 PM
Hmm, if it's just plinking away at the raid boss X times, I see timebugs + dopplegadget dwarf decks being a great combo for raids, unless there's a way for the enemy raid deck to stop it.

Oh well, all speculation.

As for burn decks...there's a card for that - escalation cards! :)

Madican
06-05-2013, 12:04 PM
Omen seems like it'd be pretty powerful against Stage 3 raid bosses. Target two of its cards, it draws three, better chances of triggering.

Xenavire
06-05-2013, 12:04 PM
Mill decks and burn deck are going to be less useful, but control and aggro are going to be amazing. Combo might work, but if the bosses can use a sgnificant amount of removal, combo pieces are likely to dissapear...

Verdant
06-05-2013, 12:04 PM
Jaxson, yeah, I know. Nevermind, I will leave the burn for dungeons, and theorycraft something else for raids. Something less obvious than Wild/Blood shin'hare who seem perfect for such mechanic.

Tyrfang, Ragefire won't do much good against bosses who ignore all but 1 damage.

Tyrfang
06-05-2013, 12:05 PM
Omen seems like it'd be pretty powerful against Stage 3 raid bosses. Target two of its cards, it draws three, better chances of triggering.

With the gear, you can play his cards for free!

That'd be pretty powerful, actually. I wonder if they'd LET you play the AI-only cards.

S117
06-05-2013, 12:06 PM
Hmmm...how many raids for a playset of "Void Breach"?

Madican
06-05-2013, 12:08 PM
With the gear, you can play his cards for free!

That'd be pretty powerful, actually. I wonder if they'd LET you play the AI-only cards.

Considering Scourge Knight's ability from the KS exclusives, seems like the answer is yes.

Xenavire
06-05-2013, 12:11 PM
With the gear, you can play his cards for free!

That'd be pretty powerful, actually. I wonder if they'd LET you play the AI-only cards.

Play yes, own no. Seems to be how they are progressing, and its a fantastic idea.

So, who likes the Grave Robbing card? Mono blood mill Uruunaz theft deck, or perhaps Sapphire/Blood. Going ot hurt raids bosses if played right.

BenRGamer
06-05-2013, 12:13 PM
I could see direct attack decks still being useful if they were built right, though I'd hesitate to still call them burn decks. You'd either need a lot of cards that could return your graveyard to your library, or permanents that could deal direct damage on their own. It doesn't matter how much direct damage they deal, so if you can find something that's 'Exhaust for one damage' throw it in.

The Cardboard Tube Samurai could very well be a great Raid mercenary, too, with both direct damage capabilities, and no max hand size once he's leveled up enough.

Edit: Depending on how it works, the Void Marauder could be incredibly useful for burn decks in Raids, too. If it counts the actions in your graveyard as separate actions, they'd deal a -1 for each action copied as well.

OP_Kyle
06-05-2013, 12:13 PM
The Clone Zone...

Discuss!

Verdant
06-05-2013, 12:15 PM
Play yes, own no. Seems to be how they are progressing, and its a fantastic idea.

So, who likes the Grave Robbing card? Mono blood mill Uruunaz theft deck, or perhaps Sapphire/Blood. Going ot hurt raids bosses if played right.
I like it. There seem to be very interesting mono-Blood control with deck manipulation through Scourge Knight, Grave Robbing, Omen of Oblivion, Relentless Corruption and such.

Erebus
06-05-2013, 12:17 PM
I can see Escalation decks being VERY handy against certain raid bosses. Remember this is only one example of a Raid.

But it's not uncommon for bosses to put out 10/10 or larger monsters easily. Being able to murder and ragefire these way is very synergistic with any deck.

I hope they allow mutual blocking (i.e. player 1 can block for player 3) as having a deck that is 100% card draw and removal will be very helpful to a raid team.

Xenavire
06-05-2013, 12:19 PM
The Clone Zone...

Discuss!

Oh, THATS what you were talking about?

We thought it was a constant. The equipment though... *drool*

BossHoss
06-05-2013, 12:23 PM
The Clone Zone...

Discuss!

Everyone enters the dungeon as a copy of OP_Kyle... Raid boss holds 2 million gold to be randomly ditributed to the masses... Only problem the evil Princess Cory has a clone generator spewing out bears left and right... game on

Stok3d
06-05-2013, 12:29 PM
Great Article. It knocked me up a couple notches on my excitement for raiding. More specifically, I applaud the mechanics for the raid. Monster doesn't have a life total, but a progression meter. Well played. I'm interested to see the insane cards the raid bosses have. This is going to be a blast!

McKahlan
06-05-2013, 12:30 PM
In the same way there are specific builds to raid boss in regular MMO, there will be the same with specific decks to bring to raid bosses right? But once the build will be found everybody is gonna copy it thus making the raid a cakewalk! I really hope bosses are BIG CHEATERS!

caffn8d
06-05-2013, 12:33 PM
I also got the feeling that the progression from 0-200 described was like that for the one specific Chaos raid. That others might be different, and actually based on a life total. Maybe I just didn't read it right though.

FireSummoner
06-05-2013, 12:34 PM
Well now we know why the Immortal Spear wasn't an issue for Raid bosses, but I do wonder if it will work in dungeons.

larryhl
06-05-2013, 12:36 PM
I also got the feeling that the progression from 0-200 described was like that for the one specific Chaos raid. That others might be different, and actually based on a life total. Maybe I just didn't read it right though.

That was the impression I got.

Estar1
06-05-2013, 12:39 PM
Why is The Clone Zone and Hallowed fields Orange? Thought orange was reserved for promo cards. and omen of oblivion and its like might not work well if the boss has 200 card deck or something.

nickon
06-05-2013, 12:41 PM
Who else likes the PvP-PvE tourneys or what?! ;) Reading all of this makes me less sad that I didn't got my Pro Player tier and currently have a dungeon crawler tier (that has also sold out in the meanwhile) for some extra loot drop while chasing that rare/legendary gear!

jai151
06-05-2013, 12:48 PM
For everyone writing off certain deck types, I think you're being a bit hasty. Really the only thing I saw ruled out against raid bosses are mill decks.

From how it appears to me, each boss will have its own unique mechanics. That would say no one deck would be useful against every boss, you'd instead be encouraged to build to the raid. Considering your deck is instantly changeable, this sounds like an amazing way to keep the challenge in, though I would worry about the "XXX Boss Killer Deck" lists running around. Unfortunately, I could see this leading to an equivalent of the Gearscore problem, where people not running the deck the net tells you to will be ostracized, but I remain hopeful.

Tyrfang
06-05-2013, 12:55 PM
You can still run mill decks, but only using void cards. :)

FireSummoner
06-05-2013, 12:55 PM
Why is The Clone Zone and Hallowed fields Orange? Thought orange was reserved for promo cards. and omen of oblivion and its like might not work well if the boss has 200 card deck or something.

I believe it was noted that you can get certain in game promo cards from helping different factions.

Vorpal
06-05-2013, 01:05 PM
I have to admit, I'm really really looking forward to the co-cop pve raid dungeon part of this game.

Particularly as the mercenaries and equipment, which I find fascinating, are pve only.

jaxsonbateman
06-05-2013, 01:17 PM
Just to go a little further into why Void Breach is hot sauce:

1. At its base, even without gear, if you have the superior troop presence you're likely to get a bigger gap over your opponent. This is especially true if you're playing a synergistic or tribal deck.
2. It's pretty fond of ETBs. While a 5 cost card is more than I was expecting to put into my idea for this deck, I might be able to work it into my wild/sapphire Pack Raptor deck idea I'm thinking of atm. Assuming I use the Pack Raptor weapon + boots, and the Void Breech amulet. Because my Pack Raptors are drawing cards when they enter, and I'm using other cheap draw spells, I have ~5 Raptors in play when I get my fifth resource. I play Void Breech. What ends up happening...
i) 10 Pack Raptors enter the battlefield
ii) I draw 10 cards
iii) 60 Pack Raptors get shuffled into my deck, giving me a ridiculously high chance of drawing many, many Pack Raptors.
Even with a conservative 2 Pack Raptors, that's still 4 Raptors, 4 card draws, and 24 shuffled into the deck.
3. This is just following more on the ETBs, but inspire is another mechanic that will approve of multiple creatures entering at the same time - and it's in color too.

I pledge now, I will get 4 copies of that card + both equipment for it. By the old gods and the new!

dogmod
06-05-2013, 01:21 PM
Jeez is this going to be super chasy... Omens is going to be so sweet for raids.... I want 4 and equipment

Showsni
06-05-2013, 01:31 PM
The Clone Zone...

Discuss!

So, I'm running a Shin'hare deck, I pump out a bunch of Battle Hoppers, then a splash of Sapphire for Clone Zone and bam! I've got a field full of whatever I like... Bucktooth Commander, maybe?

Mr.Funsocks
06-05-2013, 01:33 PM
For everyone writing off certain deck types, I think you're being a bit hasty. Really the only thing I saw ruled out against raid bosses are mill decks.

From how it appears to me, each boss will have its own unique mechanics. That would say no one deck would be useful against every boss, you'd instead be encouraged to build to the raid. Considering your deck is instantly changeable, this sounds like an amazing way to keep the challenge in, though I would worry about the "XXX Boss Killer Deck" lists running around. Unfortunately, I could see this leading to an equivalent of the Gearscore problem, where people not running the deck the net tells you to will be ostracized, but I remain hopeful.

You could very easily have a successful mill deck. Just not one where the victory condition is deck out. If you had a mill-graveyard steal deck, with the sexy cards that are AI raid boss exclusive milled into their graveyard...

But yes, before people write off burn decks, the "life loss as progression counter" was for JUST this boss. That is NOT implied on all bosses, just this guy. It may very well be that another boss has something like MTG's Island Sanctuary, and your direct damage cards are the only way to attack him. And they might even find a way for a mill deck to be important in a raid. With PvE, they can, and apparently will, do anything, and I'm excited.

All you silly Dungeon Crawlers and your lack of Blessings...

Stok3d
06-05-2013, 02:06 PM
Just pondering, are you going to have mechanics to simply prevent ppl from just saving up tokens to do a single zerg? I'd hate to think of all the awesome mechanics you put in for the raid boss drawing additional cards as the fight is about to come to a close can be easily circumvented by only attacking once the entire game? Seems this behavior will need combated.

Just food for thought.

jaxsonbateman
06-05-2013, 02:16 PM
Amassing a token army in preparation for phase 3 might be a legitimate and solid strategy that should be employed. It's not really circumventing the mechanics, it's taking note of them and combatting them effectively.

If I were to compare it to a WoW raid, it would be something like... doing Magtheridon at the start of the Burning Crusade (so when people were in pretty bad gear). You would hold off pushing him over his threshold and thus causing the ceiling to cave in (causing raid wide damage) until the raid was topped off, in order to prevent people needlessly dying.

In a similar vein, the best strategy here might be to avoid pushing him below 50 on his progress track until you hit a critical mass of troops, in order to make the most painful phase last as little time as possible.

nickon
06-05-2013, 02:19 PM
Who else likes the PvP-PvE tourneys or what?! ;) Reading all of this makes me less sad that I didn't got my Pro Player tier and currently have a dungeon crawler tier (that has also sold out in the meanwhile) for some extra loot drop while chasing that rare/legendary gear!

I should have said that earlier :D Just sniped me a PP, FINALLY!

Fireblast
06-05-2013, 03:29 PM
You guys have to understand that there will be alot of different bosses' styles.
Some will break the rules (like the phobias) and so on.

There will be decks that have an easy win vs said boss, that's why it's an interesting format that you have to break :D

~

Xenavire
06-05-2013, 03:33 PM
Just pondering, are you going to have mechanics to simply prevent ppl from just saving up tokens to do a single zerg? I'd hate to think of all the awesome mechanics you put in for the raid boss drawing additional cards as the fight is about to come to a close can be easily circumvented by only attacking once the entire game? Seems this behavior will need combated.

Just food for thought.

I wouldn't be surprised if the boss had massive board clearing abilities just to combat this sort of trickery. Like 1-2 damage to all creatures as a charge power or something. Or once a creature does damage it is bounced to the hand.

Could be a lot of fun though.

Vibraxus
06-05-2013, 03:33 PM
Just pondering, are you going to have mechanics to simply prevent ppl from just saving up tokens to do a single zerg? I'd hate to think of all the awesome mechanics you put in for the raid boss drawing additional cards as the fight is about to come to a close can be easily circumvented by only attacking once the entire game? Seems this behavior will need combated.

Just food for thought.

Sounds like some awesome style points to be given in the Mountain King arena for some crazy 500 troop zerg though.

Estar1
06-05-2013, 03:55 PM
Void Breaches Legedary equipment would seem to cause degenerate combos to exist. For instance if Prophet of Lodegan was played after Void breach it would trigger an infinite amount of Prophets to be made.

http://hex.potion-of-wit.com/img/cards/ProphetOfLodegan-215x300.png (http://hex.potion-of-wit.com/card.php?c=36)

Only thing i can think of is it adds text to all troops in deck then resolves (so any tokens do not get the copies.)

Xenavire
06-05-2013, 03:58 PM
Void Breaches Legedary equipment would seem to cause degenerate combos to exist. For instance if Prophet of Lodegan was played after Void breach it would trigger an infinite amount of Prophets to be made.

http://hex.potion-of-wit.com/img/cards/ProphetOfLodegan-215x300.png (http://hex.potion-of-wit.com/card.php?c=36)

Only thing i can think of is it adds text to all troops in deck then resolves (so any tokens do not get the copies.)

It says played from hand - you would get 8 total if none had died after you first played it, or 6 as you played it with the equipment where it persists.

taveren
06-05-2013, 04:18 PM
can you lose by running out of cards in pve or do you shuffle the graveyard also

ramseytheory
06-05-2013, 04:25 PM
You can lose by running out of cards, yes.

Boojum
06-05-2013, 04:41 PM
A burn deck could actually work pretty well for the Chaos Key raid, and might even be necessary. If you're relying on attacking with troops, you're only going to reduce the counter once per turn, but if you use spells you can trigger it multiple times per turn. Just have to make sure to focus on multiple small pings rather than a few huge fireballs.

ShaolinRaven
06-05-2013, 06:07 PM
So if you cast Clone Zone and then cast a Unique troop, does that mean you get to wipe the board of all your opponents creatures. Granted you loose all of yours as well except the one Unique if we get to choose which Unique stays and destroy all the rest.

TheDiv
06-05-2013, 06:14 PM
A burn deck could actually work pretty well for the Chaos Key raid, and might even be necessary. If you're relying on attacking with troops, you're only going to reduce the counter once per turn, but if you use spells you can trigger it multiple times per turn. Just have to make sure to focus on multiple small pings rather than a few huge fireballs.

I reckon this card would help a lot even though it's a drop from the raid: http://hextcg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/HallowedFields_Gear_Web.png

Just make lots and lots of 1/1 flyers and ping him away! :D

GreyGriffin
06-05-2013, 11:35 PM
I haven't yet heard mention of the idea of the idea of a pure support deck. Your friends have all the troops and offense, you have a deckful of nothing but counterspells and other giant middle fingers. With your allies not having to worry (as much) about defense and you not having to worry about offense, the role of spellcasting battlefield controller is something that really excites me.

Erebus
06-05-2013, 11:37 PM
I've played a Priest deck in some of the early WoWTCG raids. My friends loved me because my healing was OP, the raid bosses always targetted me first cause my healing was OP. I rarely lost because my healing was OP :)

jaxsonbateman
06-05-2013, 11:38 PM
My friends are going to love me because I'm going to have 70 bazillion Pack Raptors on the battlefield. Then they'll hate me when the boss can only be killed by something other than combat damage. >.>

Fateanomaly
06-05-2013, 11:53 PM
I want to try if it is possible to void every card the boss has.

Mr.Funsocks
06-05-2013, 11:54 PM
I want to try if it is possible to void every card the boss has.

Haw, that would be a great challenge. Make it so the boss literally cannot draw a card... You'd probably need a deck reshuffle or two yourself though.

KeplerVerge
06-06-2013, 12:39 AM
I'm so excited to dive into these dungeons and see all the ideas they're going to put into play. Everything we've seen so far just has me giddy!