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Pwn1nP3nquin
06-05-2013, 12:54 PM
Just wanted to compile the existing threads into one thread where the discussion could continue. This is a very important topic that will affect all of our experiences with HEX so I feel it should be discussed with the community.

I am sure that Cryptozoic are working extremely hard to deliver a polished, sexy product to us but I wanted to keep a list of the top requests made by the community pertaining to the UI. This will give Cryptozoic important feedback about what we want from the UI as players. I feel this thread will be especially useful during ALPHA/BETA where we can also list the bugs or needed improvements we find.

Previous threads about this topic:
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=24781
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=24804

Color Legend: Red=Bug, Blue=New, Green = Fixed!
Consolidated UI Requests:

Horizontal phase tracker across middle of board, instead of in circular pattern. (Post 2)
Battle phase board flame animation - reduce to diameter of middle circle. (Post 2)
Champion art overlaps resource gems on board. (Post 2)
Setting that gives user the ability to toggle the rotation of opponent's cards either towards (current implementation) or away from themselves. (Post 2)
*BUG* Combat target "arches" do not follow card's position on game board. (Post 3)
"Pass Priority" and "Continue" buttons should be in different positions on UI to prevent unintentional skipping of important phases. Or a different mechanic should be implemented. (ie. timers with pause ability) (Post 3)
Champion charge counter should show as "# of current charges/# of charges to activate ability". (Post 3)
Card should exhaust to the right, not the left. (Post 3)
Summoning sickness should be easier to recognize at a glance. Any other conditions that render a card unable to attack/block places graphical representation around card. (ie chains) (Post 3,4)
Ability to reorder card positions on the battlefield. (Post 3)
The number "8" appears to be upside down to me. (Confirmed! Post 13)
Replace phase icon between player clocks with a turn counter.

When searching through graveyard during play, the cards should appear in a table or grid format, for easier, faster searching and choosing. (Post 6)
Hotkey functionality! For selecting multiple/all troops under your control (otherwise ability to click and drag select) and for passing priority or skipping turn phases. (Post 14,15)
When activating a card's ability, the confirm button should be closer to the mouse/card, instead of the bottom right corner of the screen. For convenience. (Post 19)
Full market information of AH shown through numbers and graphs for all cards. (Post 21)
Extensive UI customization. Possible API for 3rd party development of addons. (Post 22,23)



The following 2 posts will be the suggestions given so far, copied over from the previous threads.

Pwn1nP3nquin
06-05-2013, 12:55 PM
I for one don't really like the UI, it's too flashy & animated. I'd like a very clear 2D one to ease my eyes.
As you said, we unlocked different game boards. Some of them will be very flashy and animated, but I'm positive they will provide a game board that is more simplistic so people have that option.

I was just about to make a thread about the game board art giving a few suggestions to the guys at Cryptozoic. Now I know what we have seen are early builds and they have said that they will be working on the art, but I just wanted to throw these out there in case they haven't noticed:

I will use the following image for my suggestions, each color corresponds to a number below.
http://i.imgur.com/atBbJib.png


About that, I don't like how cards cover those icons, I would make them smaller maybe but keep them always visible
1. Purple: This is one of the biggest peeves I have with the game board right now. Where the troops are placed on the battlefield, they cover up the lower and upper halves of the "turn dial/tracker" so it is very hard to see which turn is active.
Suggestion: Instead of having the turn tracker in a circular pattern, make the icons line up horizontally at the middle of the game board. (Where the purple rectangle is located.) This will give players the ability to see every phase icon during the turn and will especially help to eliminate confusion because most of us are trained to read from left to right, so if the turn phases were lined up from left to right, we could easily keep track of which phase of the turn we are on and what is coming next.


2. Red and Green: The flames that shoot up at the middle of the board during the attack phase is a wonderful animation, but it stretches out too far over the game board. It especially interferes with the player timers on the left. (Red Circle)
Suggestion: This is probably mostly personal preference, but I think it would look much cleaner if the flames only shot up along the diameter of the middle circle, the part of the board that contains the troops. (Along the green line.)


3. Pink-ish: This was another thing I noticed during yesterday's livestream. The Shin'hare champion art eclipses the threshold/resource gems on the game board (Pink circle). This is a minor gripe, but something I would like to see fixed.


4. Yellow: (I know this is rough on the eyes, but I've tried like 5 different yellows. Sorry!) This is absolutely based on personal preference, but I am used to seeing my opponents cards facing away from me. It feels weird when I look at the game board and the opponents cards face towards me. I would prefer to have them rotated around and if I don't know what they do, I can click on them for a preview. The text is too small to read card effects from the game board anyway.
Suggestion: Give players the option (in system settings, or possibly a toggle icon on the game board) to rotate their opponents card towards or away from themselves.

If you took the time to read this huge wall of text, thanks!

Pwn1nP3nquin
06-05-2013, 12:57 PM
Suggestions given by others:


We all know the game is in pre-Alpha, but based on what we've seen so far, I thought it might be a good idea to start a list of some observations for their considerations.

Things that are bugs (such as the "combat line-effect" not moving when cards shift) I will trust them to work out, this is more for enhancements & requests.

For example:

The Pass Priority button, and the Continue button may not want to be in the same spot. New players getting a little click happy to speed through to their turn may miss a window by accident.

It would be cool if the Champion charge counter had a indicator to show how many points a charge costs, like 0/3. It would help when playing against new Champions.



My big ones:

1) Tapping (or exhausting) to the left is HERESY. They should turn to the right damnit! At least give us the option.

2) The summoning sickness graphic that we saw the first time was better. It was over the entire card, rather than just the border, and was far more visible. I forget often as I watch that troops have summoning sickness.

3) Could resources be graphically represented rather than numerically? I was thinking a sort of charge-bar across the bottom of the screen with blocks that could fill/unfill. Something more visual rather than numerical. That was one of the things I always did in Magic, is make sure I visually represented my lands pleasingly, usually in 2 stacks or stacks of 2, depending on how many I had, so I could readily see how much I had available at a glance, without reading/counting. Obviously the number could be shown too, because when you get into the 10-20 range visual representation starts not working.

4) Similarly, could thresholds be represented visually, rather than numerically? Have multiple gems for your thresholds, and when you get to 5 a larger gem with a 5 on it to represent it.

5) I don't know if it's in or not, but the ability to reorder cards on the field of play. Sometimes THIS creature just belongs THERE, because reasons.

Nexi
06-05-2013, 06:39 PM
Summoning sickness should be easier to recognize at a glance. (Post 3)

With regards to this, I would update it to say all forms on card stall that prevent it from doing something, chains around it are always good

On the cards themselves, not sure if it is just me but Basic Action and Quick Action labels on the cards all look like they have no spacing, same with the current phase label (Declare Attack in the screenshot) leaving us with QUICKACTION and BASICACTION which looks a bit sloppy to me.

Erebus
06-05-2013, 06:42 PM
Nexi, they stated that most of the text on the cards are placeholder until they find a font, coloring, etc that they like.

ratceo
06-05-2013, 07:14 PM
Option to show graveyard(and similar stuff) in a table format so i can quickly go through them, target etc. The current tablet swipe mechanic that only shows one card is slow and ineffective.

DjiN
06-05-2013, 07:24 PM
I don't think having turn phases on the board is needed at all. I'd prefer to leave the turn phases between player portraits and put a Turn Counter in there too or put the Counter on the board instead.

Yasi
06-05-2013, 07:27 PM
Change the cards into other shapes like Paxnora. Miniature figurines wouldn't be too bad.

Pwn1nP3nquin
06-05-2013, 09:01 PM
Change the cards into other shapes like Paxnora. Miniature figurines wouldn't be too bad.

I was thinking about this too, this would especially take advantage of the digital format. I think that this would be too major of a change so far into development. The man hours they would have to devote to creating 3D models of all 350 cards in Set 1 alone would be absurd. I believe if they wanted to go this route, they would have chosen to do this long ago, and I'm positive it has been considered by the team at least once.

Pwn1nP3nquin
06-12-2013, 12:09 PM
Following information from the E3 2013 livestream interview with Gamespot:

Screenshots:
http://i.imgur.com/UQxfYKx.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mxXxGjX.jpg

These screens show some of the changes that have been made to the UI as well as some game mechanics.

List of Changes:

Apparently the life total now starts at 25, instead of 20.
You may reorder the cards in your hand however you want.
Images of champions have been scaled down. This prevents covering of resources on gameboard. However, this might be a resolution thing.
The flames that spring from the gameboard during combat are now contained within the center circle.


Edit: The first bullet (in red) is yet to be confirmed. OP_Kyle has said that the footage was captured before the latest twitch stream so it seems that 20 life is currently implemented. Will have to wait for confirmation from Crypto about the official life pool total.

Slish
06-12-2013, 12:18 PM
Apparently the footage shown is from an earlier build, a build before the latest twitch stream!
OP Kyle has said this in the E3 thread.

Pwn1nP3nquin
06-12-2013, 12:48 PM
Ah, thank you for pointing that out!

Rxauin
06-12-2013, 12:59 PM
I'm glad someone else noticed the 8's. They're top heavy and I'm worried they might tip over... I'd hate to fight someone with 1-infinity health :(

BossHoss
06-12-2013, 01:24 PM
Hotkeys - I would like to see an option to mass select all your cards to attack...
Ex. F12 select all to attack, or like RTS click and drag a box to mass select

Nothing more frustrating than a combo that creates 40 tokens, that with server lag you need to individually select attack, while you instead lose on time

AstronauticFrog
06-12-2013, 01:45 PM
Speaking of hotkeys, I've noticed in the streams they've been clicking the "pass priority" button each time they need to pass. Hotkeys to pass for a full phase, or full turn, or auto-yield when unable to act (e.g., no mana and no usable abilities) would be helpful. Also, include the ability to auto-yield to specific abilities (e.g., auto-yielding to your own Adamanthian Scrivener (http://hex.potion-of-wit.com/card.php?c=219) so you don't have to bother with it every time you play a troop).

Pwn1nP3nquin
06-12-2013, 02:10 PM
I'm glad someone else noticed the 8's. They're top heavy and I'm worried they might tip over... I'd hate to fight someone with 1-infinity health :(

Hahaha! I agree with this statement!

Thanks for the suggestions everybody, I've updated the OP.

darkbreaker
06-12-2013, 02:12 PM
Also this thread: http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=23504
Mostly the suggestion for buttons to show up near mouse or near the cards. (Like confirm button for troop ability)

Pwn1nP3nquin
06-12-2013, 02:25 PM
Also this thread: http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=23504
Mostly the suggestion for buttons to show up near mouse or near the cards. (Like confirm button for troop ability)

Hmm... You mean if an ability is available to use, a button will pop up next to the card on the game board that you can click to activate the ability?

darkbreaker
06-12-2013, 02:32 PM
Hmm... You mean if an ability is available to use, a button will pop up next to the card on the game board that you can click to activate the ability?

Nah, currently when you click a card to activate its ability a "Confirm" button is shown at the bottom-right corner of the screen. The suggestion is for that kind fo button to show up right below the card you clicked.

Pwn1nP3nquin
06-12-2013, 02:37 PM
Oh okay, that makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up. I'll add it to the list.

Yoss
06-12-2013, 03:09 PM
I would like the equivalent of Auctioneer for World of Warcraft, upgraded and tweaked for TCG.
- tracking AH prices
- mouse-over tool-tips to display:
--- AH price in Gold (moving 30 day average)
--- AH price in Plat (moving 30 day average)
--- AH frequency/volume (gold listings per day, moving 30 day average)
--- AH frequency/volume (plat listings per day, moving 30 day average)
--- how many I own

It should aggregate all successful AH sales, giving everyone full market information at all times. The tool-tips should appear for ANY item that might appear on the AH, at ANY time that I hover over it. I suppose you could make it configurable for times you don't want to see the tool-tip (mid-game for example).

EDIT:
In the meantime, someone else has also suggested this:
Mouse-over Number Owned

Tinuvas
06-12-2013, 04:49 PM
I would really like my UI to be customizable, and not just by choosing the battlefield. I want to choose the background, the battle indicator (flames or pulsing circles or whatever), whether the phase indicator is round or linear, placement of champions (Me in the bottom right, opponent in top left, both of us facing off directly across the bottom, etc), and all kinds of things. Just give me the choices. Let me play with it until I find what I want. Is that too much to ask :p ?

Yoss
06-12-2013, 04:52 PM
I would really like my UI to be customizable, and not just by choosing the battlefield. I want to choose the background, the battle indicator (flames or pulsing circles or whatever), whether the phase indicator is round or linear, placement of champions (Me in the bottom right, opponent in top left, both of us facing off directly across the bottom, etc), and all kinds of things. Just give me the choices. Let me play with it until I find what I want. Is that too much to ask :p ?This is why I started my thread asking if they'd be having API hooks for 3rd party development.

Pwn1nP3nquin
06-12-2013, 09:17 PM
This is why I started my thread asking if they'd be having API hooks for 3rd party development.

The ability to create mods and addons, especially for UI customization would be interesting and is definitely something that I would be interested in seeing.

Giving the community the ability to shape the game in their own way helps to build the community and their relationship with the developer.



- mouse-over tool-tips to display:
--- AH price in Gold (moving 30 day average)
--- AH price in Plat (moving 30 day average)
--- AH frequency/volume (gold listings per day, moving 30 day average)
--- AH frequency/volume (plat listings per day, moving 30 day average)
--- how many I own


This would be an amazing feature for people who like to work the markets and it would help the in-game economy thrive and stay balanced.

Yoss
06-13-2013, 11:17 AM
Here's a link to my API thread:
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=25307

draco
06-13-2013, 12:58 PM
I actually do NOT want AH tools like what Yoss described. (Except maybe Current gold/plat average price, since that information is available anyways and removes some tedium). These sorts of tools start encroaching on the secondary market in a bad way.

If you take a look at World of Warcraft, or any other MMO with lots of AH tools, you get people who play the market more than they play the game, and this has a rather dramatic effect on the in game economy. Inflation increases as a result since people are attempting to generate value from nothing through speculation and overpricing. It may stabilize the market through sheer volume, but it tends to stabilize at a higher price that it otherwise would.

The best example I can give is the player who wishes to undercut the current market value and generate trades/sales quickly for himself. With those sort of tools, this almost never actually achieves the end goal of the market: providing a better deal to the end consumer. This is because people watching the AH with autoscan tools and a database of historical trends and values will spot these deals almost instantly, buy the entire stock, and resell at the market value, usually dispersing the sales over several days/weeks to keep the supply stable.

This prevents the market from fluctuating like it SHOULD: increased supply and the same demand resulting in lower prices. The end result is a nearly unavoidable upward trend in price that speeds up inflation. People will need to farm more gold for the card they want, dumping more gold into the market than otherwise would be spent, which then results in increased prices. This results in more farming, continuing the cycle, sucking fun out of the game for increased profits.

There are a few ways to prevent most of this however. One is to have fairly large AH deposits and fees, preventing resale from being profitable. Another is to provide a buyers market, a way to post an offer that a seller can fill (EVE Online does this). There are more ways, but those are two as this post is already too long.

Anyways, my two cents.

Yoss
06-13-2013, 02:00 PM
I actually do NOT want AH tools like what Yoss described. (Except maybe Current gold/plat average price, since that information is available anyways and removes some tedium).
Guess what, that's what a moving average is: the current price.


...you get people who play the market more than they play the game...
Who are you to dictate how they want to spend their gaming time (assuming they're not a bot)?


and this has a rather dramatic effect on the in game economy. Inflation increases as a result since people are attempting to generate value from nothing through speculation and overpricing. It may stabilize the market through sheer volume, but it tends to stabilize at a higher price that it otherwise would.
Do you have any data here or just intuition? I ask because my intuition does not line up with your argument (or your example below). Arbitrage is part of any healthy market as long as a monopoly does not develop, and an AH monopoly would require running a bot 24/7 to snag all lower-priced deals so that only the bot's high-priced goods are available.


The best example I can give is the player who wishes to undercut the current market value and generate trades/sales quickly for himself. With those sort of tools, this almost never actually achieves the end goal of the market: providing a better deal to the end consumer.
The goal of a market is to find the correct pricing for goods and services where both buyers and sellers are willing to make deals. That often has the effect of lowering prices, but not always. In your example here, the undercutter does, in fact, achieve his goal: he gets a quick sale and sacrificed some profit to get it. Meanwhile, the arbitrageur (is that even a word?) is able to earn some small profit from helping the market correct the price, or maybe someone just snagged a great deal. Either way, the market is functioning properly. It only gets degenerate if automated bots are able to come in and corner a market, and in that case, the AH "add-on" idea is meaningless anyway because the bot would just have that functionality built in. Except without the add-on honest players would be even more in the dark while the bot has full information.


This is because people watching the AH with autoscan tools and a database of historical trends and values will spot these deals almost instantly, buy the entire stock, and resell at the market value, usually dispersing the sales over several days/weeks to keep the supply stable.

This prevents the market from fluctuating like it SHOULD: increased supply and the same demand resulting in lower prices. The end result is a nearly unavoidable upward trend in price that speeds up inflation.
This behavior is not possible by a human being operating under the TOS for the game. If you're talking about botters, then this is no longer a discussion about an AH "add-on" and instead becomes a discussion about cheaters trying to obtain a market monopoly.

draco
06-14-2013, 02:20 AM
1. Uhm... a moving average is not the current average, it is a set of historical averages that can be plotted on a graph. Generally a subset of averages for a time period that moves forward through time by a set time step.

2. It's not about dictating people's gameplay. It's about a discussion on what gameplay is available to ensure enjoyment by all of the people playing the game, since it is a social, community driven game.

3. I'm sure you can spend about 10 minutes finding several articles on the subject, both in video games and in the real world economy. (micro traders and the diamond cartel are examples that come to mind in the real world, and again, WoW is a virtual world example)

4. You are correct that the undercutter achieves his goal, but the Market itself does not achieve it's primary goal, getting the goods in the hands of the consumer at prices both the seller and consumer are willing to agree on. In a real world economy, this has less of an impact, because resellers must face the reality that their target consumer has finite money, and will (almost) always spend it on needed goods (food, housing, ect.) before goods they want. In a virtual economy like this, currency can be generated infinitely through time spent playing, and all of the currency is discretionary.

In a virtual world like this, the result is that resellers are able to put up goods for prices above what the actual market supply/demand would normally dictate, and consumers only need farm a bit more to obtain the goods. With historical data available, this generates an inevitable upward trend as people are able to rely on past trends for pricing, rather that needing to understand the value of the thing they are trying to sell to come to a price point. I'm not saying this is some evil plot by people who play the economy, but it is human nature to notice that if you have 2/3 of the supply at one point, it's easy to put it up for more than average and people will have to pay it once the lower priced stock is gone.

Fireblast
06-14-2013, 02:38 AM
In a virtual economy like this, currency can be generated infinitely through time spent playing, and all of the currency is discretionary.

In a virtual world like this, the result is that resellers are able to put up goods for prices above what the actual market supply/demand would normally dictate, and consumers only need farm a bit more to obtain the goods. With historical data available, this generates an inevitable upward trend as people are able to rely on past trends for pricing, rather that needing to understand the value of the thing they are trying to sell to come to a price point. I'm not saying this is some evil plot by people who play the economy, but it is human nature to notice that if you have 2/3 of the supply at one point, it's easy to put it up for more than average and people will have to pay it once the lower priced stock is gone.

The important AH is the platinum one (which means $$$).
Gold will be for "fun" and some money sinks, but inflations comes from the fact that there is an unlimited supply of in-game gold, not because of the "traders".

Anyway, I'm still against mods and average infos because identifying good and bad value is a skill that should be rewarded and a mod that gives it to everyone is not doing so.

~

Mebius
06-14-2013, 02:52 AM
TL;DR Bigger fonts and/or UI scale.

I usually playing on TV from which I sit in about 2 meters (6-7 feet) and many PC games have text written with small font. Even with my perfectly normal vision it's getting hard to read anything and I need to sit more close to TV (which lead to another problem - if I sit too close I can't see all screen) or bend forward every time I need to read anything in the game. So it would be great to have options to choose font size or option to scale UI.

Arbiter
06-14-2013, 03:21 AM
Card should exhaust to the right, not the left. (Post 3)


No. I do not see why you would list this as compulsory. It is not. You may be left handed and turn them the other way, or used to some digital card game that turns right, but I have rarely seen cards turned to the right. If you want it as an option, I am fine with that, but to ask for a change where a significant number of people probably have a preference for it to stay the same is wrong.

theophanya
06-14-2013, 05:10 AM
Some of the suggestions actually make a lot of sense! Hope this thread gets read by Crypto designers and developers.

Hollywood
06-14-2013, 06:48 AM
They already have HotKey implementation. Go look at the Designer videos up on YouTube of Cory demoing Hex for IGN and some other game site. He's clearly using a hot key the whole time.

Yoss
06-15-2013, 09:47 AM
Anyway, I'm still against mods and average infos because identifying good and bad value is a skill that should be rewarded and a mod that gives it to everyone is not doing so.
So you actually want to encourage profiteering on the market by those who track prices against those who just want to play the "normal" parts of the game?

Regardless of whether you put the Market Info app into the game or not, there will be people tracking the market prices. If not in-game, then through third party tools. If through third party, then only a small number of players will be aware of it and will thus have an advantage.

For me, I just want to play the game, not spend hours watching the market. Without market info displayed in-game, you are killing the time efficiency of everyone's gaming, either by forcing time to be wasted on market tracking or by forcing gold-grinding to make up for the money you're losing due to market disadvantage.

@draco:
Everything you're saying is bad will be WORSE if you deny the average player access to information. People will still try to run monopolies. Profiteers will still try to make money off of arbitrage. It will just be more painful for the average guy if the profiteers are the only ones with good information.

jai151
06-24-2013, 11:41 AM
Any time API/3rd Party Addons are brought up, you have to consider the tablet crowd. There are a not insignificant group (and possibly majority, depending) who will play this game exclusively on tablets. To allow 3rd party interface development can and will create a divide between those using a PC and those using a tablet, which can give the PC crowd a distinct advantage. If they do want this game to be taken seriously in a tournament or eSport way, no one can have a platform based advantage.

Gwaer
06-24-2013, 11:43 AM
To be fair any webapp that makes use of those api's could be formatted to work on tablets as well. I'm fundamentally against bot support that let pc users make use of that information automagically. But displaying the information would just be an effect of the market since tablet users could make use of that info it would make sense for 3rd parties to provide it to them.

jai151
06-24-2013, 11:46 AM
Webapps are fine, I just meant specifically UI based 3rd party addons.

Yoss
06-24-2013, 03:25 PM
The Market Info Tooltip is the only feature I can think of that I care about. I'd prefer it come standard from CZE, but if it won't then I'd like the proper API support to let someone else develop it.