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ChaosEvoker
06-05-2013, 03:02 PM
Having watched the kickstarter now for a while, I am really wondering something and I was wondering if maybe someone knows something I don't.

Given the huge runs on Pro Player and Grand King and the fact that the other $250 tiers are not selling at all, why not offer more GK and PP slots instead of trying to force these other slots that it is clear most people don't really want? I mean, we have people on a script war of milliseconds trying to snipe PP and GK the absolute moment they become available and who knows how many other people who are fruitlessly trying to snipe a slot from the bots.

I guess I just don't understand why you would want to have it be like this instead of offering your fans more slots so that there isn't some bot war going on over 1500 slots. Am I missing something?

Zomnivore
06-05-2013, 03:05 PM
There's a lot of value in those tiers and they want to limit the amount of funkyness that those tiers do to the market probably.

Lochar
06-05-2013, 03:08 PM
They've also made the promise that the limited tiers will stay limited. It's going to be tricky enough because the Pro Players are actually five over last I checked because of bot sniping.

ForgedSol
06-05-2013, 03:14 PM
This is from the kickstarter comments, posted by the cryptozoic account. I copied and pasted it on my iPad and saved it in Notes 5 days ago.


Hey everyone. I see people have some very strong opinions about the Kickstarter campaign. I just wanted to reiterate that we will not be increasing the quantity on Pro Player or Grand King tiers. The people who backed at those levels backed with the expectation that they would be limited, and we will honor that. Just like we won't increase the quantity on the Dungeon Crawler tiers if they should sell out. That's the unfortunate nature of limited items, but there are multiple options available to you that are still an incredible value should you want to be a HEX backer. You're free to continue discussing this civilly with each other, but that's our official position
Creator Cryptozoic Entertainment about 8 hours ago


@Sam: One of my favorite references and one of my favorite quotes. I wish I could reward that double-hit by answering your wish, but unfortunately that would have the same effect of breaking that social contract, expectations of the PP and GK backers. Sorry. =(

ChaosEvoker
06-05-2013, 03:21 PM
This is from the kickstarter comments, posted by the cryptozoic account. I copied and pasted it on my iPad and saved it in Notes 5 days ago.

See this is fine and all but I just don't buy it. Do you actually think that no one who bought PP tier or GK tier would have done so if there had been 2000 PP or 1000 GK instead? That strikes me as unlikely given the amount of effort people are going to to snipe these tiers.

Also, is increasing somehow worse than the hoarding behavior? I just don't see why we should reward the people hoarding these tiers to likely resale at highly inflated prices by making the option viable in the first place due to the overwhelming demand vs supply. Still just doesn't make sense to me.

Lochar
06-05-2013, 03:24 PM
See this is fine and all but I just don't buy it. Do you actually think that no one who bought PP tier or GK tier would have done so if there had been 2000 PP or 1000 GK instead? That strikes me as unlikely given the amount of effort people are going to to snipe these tiers.

Also, is increasing somehow worse than the hoarding behavior? I just don't see why we should reward the people hoarding these tiers to likely resale at highly inflated prices by making the option viable in the first place due to the overwhelming demand vs supply. Still just doesn't make sense to me.

If you think more than a very small handful of people are going to resell those tiers, I've got a bridge you might be interested in.

People are hoarding them to stack things like multiple lifetime drafts or get full playsets of all the exclusive cards.

ChaosEvoker
06-05-2013, 03:27 PM
If you think more than a very small handful of people are going to resell those tiers, I've got a bridge you might be interested in.

People are hoarding them to stack things like multiple lifetime drafts or get full playsets of all the exclusive cards.

Even so, why would you choose to allow that sort of behavior at the exclusion of fans dedicated enough to make bots to try to snipe one?

Also, that doesn't even address my point about increasing it not truly "betraying" those who purchased it originally.

dogmod
06-05-2013, 03:30 PM
Even so, why would you choose to allow that sort of behavior at the exclusion of fans dedicated enough to make bots to try to snipe one?

Also, that doesn't even address my point about increasing it not truly "betraying" those who purchased it originally.

I guess he would only "sort of" be betraying them?

Lochar
06-05-2013, 03:30 PM
I can't make a comment about the betray thing, as I wasn't the one that said it and I'm not getting into that can of worms again. However, you do have to consider the monetary aspect of it as well. If they open more Grand Kings, it means more people getting free drafts and not buying into them.

ForgedSol
06-05-2013, 03:34 PM
You have to remember that the kickstarter exceeded their expectations. They thought 1000 was plenty (and they were wrong). Cory's mentioned in interviews that he expected the vast majority of us to buy at the King level, not go to $250+ level tiers. But once that decision was made, they felt they had to stick to the implied promise, much like how once they allowed for stacking in the first place and every other decision they've made, they felt like sticking to their word is important.

And unfortunately, giving more isn't always met with universal praise and thanks, like adding the year of drafts to the other tiers.

ChaosEvoker
06-05-2013, 03:36 PM
I can't make a comment about the betray thing, as I wasn't the one that said it and I'm not getting into that can of worms again. However, you do have to consider the monetary aspect of it as well. If they open more Grand Kings, it means more people getting free drafts and not buying into them.

Sure, but if drafts are around 10 bucks (to just make up a reasonable sounding number), then it would be about half a year to a year before they will have "lost" money on that. Which still fails to take into account all the additional money that will be earned from expanding the player base and other purchases. One draft a week hardly keeps up your collection enough to take part in other events, so it's not as if PP and GK never have to put money into Hex again.


You have to remember that the kickstarter exceeded their expectations. They thought 1000 was plenty (and they were wrong). Cory's mentioned in interviews that he expected the vast majority of us to buy at the King level, not go to $250+ level tiers. But once that decision was made, they felt they had to stick to the implied promise, much like how once they allowed for stacking in the first place and every other decision they've made, they felt like sticking to their word is important.

I have a lot more respect for someone who can say "Oh wow we were totally wrong about this, let's fix it." than someone who throws up their hands and says "Welp, we gave it our best guess, oh well!"

ForgedSol
06-05-2013, 03:39 PM
Sure, but if drafts are around 10 bucks (to just make up a reasonable sounding number), then it would be about half a year to a year before they will have "lost" money on that. Which still fails to take into account all the additional money that will be earned from expanding the player base and other purchases. One draft a week hardly keeps up your collection enough to take part in other events, so it's not as if PP and GK never have to put money into Hex again.

I agree here. This has been discussed quite a lot, but giving me free drafts is gaining the company money, because it means I'm more likely to draft. Otherwise I'd probably stick with constructed rather than do both.


I have a lot more respect for someone who can say "Oh wow we were totally wrong about this, let's fix it." than someone who throws up their hands and says "Welp, we gave it our best guess, oh well!"

I'm actually with you to an extent. I think if they added more slots due to the fact that stacking prevented 1000 individuals to get the reward, that would have been perfectly reasonable to me. But this is what they're doing, and they've explained their reasoning. You can agree with it or not, but that's what it is. If it causes you to lose some respect for them, then that's just a consequence of their decision they're choosing to side with. Going to other way would do the same for other people.

Lochar
06-05-2013, 03:39 PM
Drafts are 7 bucks. 3 boosters x2 dollars plus 1 dollar fee. But I'm not one of the people vehemently against extra tiers (Shh, I said I wasn't getting into this conversation), but that ship has sailed, hit an iceburg, sunk, and been dredged for dozens of times already and CZE has nuked the ocean floor now.

EdwardBishop
06-06-2013, 06:54 AM
AGREED 100% - if the tiers are limited they should be limited to 1000 -individuals- not this sickening hoarding/'stacking' of slots by those who already have one...

caffn8d
06-06-2013, 07:04 AM
The tier stacking sucks, but it is what it is at this point. You've seen the official comments from CZE, and if they broke their word at this point I would immediately cancel my Grand King pledge and just grab a King tier. It's the best out and out card value, and if their word means nothing then why should I think that any of my KS exclusives mean anything either? At that point I might as well just be like the others who try to game the tiers for "value".