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View Full Version : Please allow the stacking of one year free drafts for merging multiple 250+ tiers



Ozmono
06-05-2013, 06:37 PM
I can understand why some things aren't stacked but why aren't the free drafts for 1 year stacked? It's just going to make me and I imagine others create two accounts. I would really prefer it if I didn't need to create two accounts as it would be so much more convenient. That said I'm not going to waste a 1 free draft a week for a year by merging my accounts. With that said I'll finish with a plea. Please allow people who have pledged half a thousand dollars and more to stack this reward.

nicosharp
06-05-2013, 06:43 PM
+1

Diesbudt
06-05-2013, 06:43 PM
They already said they will not. And said in a KS update it will stay that way.

Tyrfang
06-05-2013, 06:44 PM
While this would make sense, they aren't changing the tiers now UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES...

Ozmono
06-05-2013, 06:44 PM
Did they atleast say why? It's not really changing the tiers, it's just supporting the merging of them better.

Tyrfang
06-05-2013, 06:46 PM
Did they atleast say why? It's not really changing the tiers, it's just allowing the merging of them better.

Basically, they don't want to risk pissing anyone off by making any moves in the last 24 hours of the Kickstarter.

Examples:
If they announced "drafts stack!" - People who didn't buy a second tier earlier and are locked out because DC is sold out will be pissed.

I don't think the tiers need any more value-adds.

Avedecus
06-05-2013, 06:46 PM
Because buying multiple tiers is kind of a dick move to people who don't have any, and you're already getting more than enough.

Ozmono
06-05-2013, 06:47 PM
I can understand that but again it doesn't require changing the tiers or removing anything, it's just allowing people to merge there multiple tiers together into one account.

Diesbudt
06-05-2013, 06:47 PM
Basically, they don't want to risk pissing anyone off by making any moves in the last 24 hours of the Kickstarter.

And because longer than 1 year is supposed to be unique to PP and up. The 1 year was only added to sweeten up the pot for tiers that were not good compared to the others, not to be abused and stacked.

dodecapod
06-05-2013, 06:48 PM
I'm with OP. I'm really dumbfounded about this. I mean, people multi-pledging spend the same amount as any other who purchases any of the $250 tier. Why should a person who spent $500 on two 250, be punished by removing a significant portion of the offer (receiving less than 100% of what they paid for), while two other individuals get to keep 100% of their $250 pledge.

Ozmono
06-05-2013, 06:48 PM
Because buying multiple tiers is kind of a dick move to people who don't have any, and you're already getting more than enough.

That I can understand. In my defense and for others in a similar position I only did it because the tiers that combined the stuff I wanted were already sold out.

Gorgol
06-05-2013, 06:48 PM
No

Tyrfang
06-05-2013, 06:49 PM
I'm with OP. I'm really dumbfounded about this. I mean, people multi-pledging spend the same amount as any other who purchases any of the $250 tier. Why should a person who spent $500 on two 250, be punished by removing a significant portion of the offer (receiving less than 100% of what they paid for), while two other individuals get to keep 100% of their $250 pledge.

The line on disallowing stacking was probably added to discourage multi-pledging in the first place.

dodecapod
06-05-2013, 06:49 PM
Because buying multiple tiers is kind of a dick move to people who don't have any, and you're already getting more than enough.

What? That's a ridiculous reason. That's not even a reason.

Avedecus
06-05-2013, 06:50 PM
What? That's a ridiculous reason. That's not even a reason.
It's their reason, so dunno why you're arguing with me. PP should never have stacked in the first place.

Ozmono
06-05-2013, 06:51 PM
What? That's a ridiculous reason. That's not even a reason.

I think the first part of his reason is fair enough. They are limited afterall. That said it's not like the PP tier which was gone pretty much straight away. There are even spots left now.

dodecapod
06-05-2013, 06:51 PM
The line on disallowing stacking was probably added to discourage multi-pledging in the first place.

Yep, I understand that. But what is wrong with multi-pledging? They have limited the number of pledges for those, so I would expect they'd be prepared to dish out all those tiers with their accompanying rewards/gifts.

dodecapod
06-05-2013, 06:53 PM
It's their reason, so dunno why you're arguing with me. PP should never have stacked in the first place.

I'm not arguing with you. Plus, what I quoted is not a reason they give. They didn't tell the public that multipleding was a dick move, did they?

Tyrfang
06-05-2013, 06:53 PM
Yep, I understand that. But what is wrong with multi-pledging? They have limited the number of pledges for those, so I would expect they'd be prepared to dish out all those tiers with their accompanying rewards/gifts.

They never expected multi-pledging to be the norm.

Hell, they didn't expect people to pledge higher than King.

They allowed it when someone initially asked at the start of the KS, but I'm pretty sure if they could go back in time to stop themselves, they would.

DjiN
06-05-2013, 06:54 PM
It's just about the community, they want as many people as possible to benefit, so they are not allowing stacking in the hopes its a turn off for those who are considering it to have to create 2 accounts. Which it obviously isn't because greedy people like Ozmono will do everything they can to get free stuff.

Ozmono
06-05-2013, 06:56 PM
It's just about the community, they want as many people as possible to benefit, so they are not allowing stacking in the hopes its a turn off for those who are considering it to have to create 2 accounts. Which is obviously isn't because greedy people like Ozmono will do everything they can to get free stuff.
If they prefer they can ask me to cancel my pledges and I will. 500 dollars might be good value, time will tell. At the moment the product isn't even finished. Now is it free? hardly. It's people like me who are pledging that will help this game get made so please don't call me greedy for wanting to receive kickstarter rewards that I paid for.

Talreth
06-05-2013, 06:57 PM
Because that's not what the fucking tiers you're trying to stack are even about.

Diesbudt
06-05-2013, 06:57 PM
If they prefer they can ask me to cancel my pledges and I will. 500 dollars might be good value, time will tell. At the moment the product isn't even finished. Now is it free? hardly. It's people like me who are pledging that will help this game get made so please don't call me greedy for wanting to receive kickstarter rewards that I paid for.

They broke $2 million. Your $500 is a drop in an ocean. I don't think anyone cares about this lame "QQ excuse"

DjiN
06-05-2013, 06:58 PM
Your attitude is disgusting Ozmono.

Ozmono
06-05-2013, 06:58 PM
They broke $2 million. Your $500 is a drop in an ocean. I don't think anyone cares about this lame "QQ excuse"
No single person paid 10 grand let alone 2 million. If you don't understand a community effort (which I wouldn't think you would judging by your attitude and manners) than I don't care to explain it to you.

Kiworrior
06-05-2013, 06:59 PM
It's just about the community, they want as many people as possible to benefit, so they are not allowing stacking in the hopes its a turn off for those who are considering it to have to create 2 accounts. Which it obviously isn't because greedy people like Ozmono will do everything they can to get free stuff.

How is Ozmono trying to get free stuff by pledging MORE money?

Diesbudt
06-05-2013, 06:59 PM
No single person paid 10 grand let alone 2 million. If you don't understand a community effort (which I wouldn't think you would judging by your attitude and manners) than I don't care to explain it to you.

9 people paid $10k for producer.

Please, say that again.

Tyrfang
06-05-2013, 07:00 PM
Huh? Producers pledged $10,000.

There's like...8 of them.

Ozmono
06-05-2013, 07:00 PM
Your attitude is disgusting Ozmono.

Funny because I find yours the same. Calling me greedy isn't called for. If they didn't want to give out these rewards than they wouldn't have even better rewards for higher tiers.

Talreth
06-05-2013, 07:00 PM
How is Ozmono trying to get free stuff by pledging MORE money?

Because the free drafts were added on as BONUS value, and he is saying "why don't I get BONUS BONUS value?" are you serious

dodecapod
06-05-2013, 07:00 PM
It's just about the community, they want as many people as possible to benefit, so they are not allowing stacking in the hopes its a turn off for those who are considering it to have to create 2 accounts. Which it obviously isn't because greedy people like Ozmono will do everything they can to get free stuff.

I really don't see how this is even considered greedy. I'd like to remind you that these tiers are paid for (only at a discount). And like I said in a previous post, why punish people who pay 100%. If they are taking some component off the pledge when merging, they should be removing a portion of the price as well.

And yea, it would be great if more people are in the pledges, but as it stand, there is an excess of limited pledges.

DjiN
06-05-2013, 07:01 PM
I hope they ban your main account and let you enjoy your free drafts on your alt. That would be kinda neat ^^

Ozmono
06-05-2013, 07:01 PM
9 people paid $10k for producer.

Please, say that again.

Well sorry. Guess the point goes out the window does it? Or is 10k a drop in the ocean too? What about the combined value of the 9 people who paid it?
I cannot believe the hostility in this thread/

Mavian
06-05-2013, 07:01 PM
If they prefer they can ask me to cancel my pledges and I will. 500 dollars might be good value, time will tell. At the moment the product isn't even finished. Now is it free? hardly. It's people like me who are pledging that will help this game get made so please don't call me greedy for wanting to receive kickstarter rewards that I paid for.

You are getting the rewards you paid for. They explicitly said the other 250 tier drafts don't stack, so if you buy two, you're doing so in the full knowledge of that. The idea was to boost the attractiveness of the other tiers, not to overpower the Pro Player tier. With all the recent info on dungeons and raids, it's debatable at this point if the 1 year free draft is even necessary. Lest we forget originally, there was no free 1 year draft not to mention you get far more value than what you pay for even without the free 1 year of draft.

Kami
06-05-2013, 07:01 PM
Huh? Producers pledged $10,000.

There's like...8 of them.

10 Producers apparently.

9 on KS, 1 on PayPal (verified by how there's only 14 slots total on KS now).

Malicus
06-05-2013, 07:01 PM
If they prefer they can ask me to cancel my pledges and I will. 500 dollars might be good value, time will tell. At the moment the product isn't even finished. Now is it free? hardly. It's people like me who are pledging that will help this game get made so please don't call me greedy for wanting to receive kickstarter rewards that I paid for.

Since they explicitly state they do not stack you are asking for more than you paid for right now. The free draft wasn't even a part of the initial 250 tiers it was a bonus they added to sweeten the pot and now you are asking for more. Also as others have mentioned it is too late in the game since it offers only a limited amount of time for people to adjust pledges and has a high likelihood of causing upset.

If you aren't comfortable with your pledge without asking for more you may need to reconsider the level of backing.

Avedecus
06-05-2013, 07:02 PM
The free drafts are a bonus, bought for you by all the other backers.

Talreth
06-05-2013, 07:02 PM
I really don't see how this is even considered greedy. I'd like to remind you that these tiers are paid for (only at a discount). And like I said in a previous post, why punish people who pay 100%. If they are taking some component off the pledge when merging, they should be removing a portion of the price as well.

And yea, it would be great if more people are in the pledges, but as it stand, there is an excess of limited pledges.


Because that's not what the fucking tiers you're trying to stack are even about.


Because that's not what the fucking tiers you're trying to stack are even about.


Because that's not what the fucking tiers you're trying to stack are even about.


Because that's not what the fucking tiers you're trying to stack are even about.

.

Tyrfang
06-05-2013, 07:03 PM
I think the real reason they don't stack is because GK was sold out at the time of the announcement, and allowing them to stack would have improved GK further. As it is, they basically...snaked around GK.

Kagim
06-05-2013, 07:03 PM
No single person paid 10 grand let alone 2 million. If you don't understand a community effort (which I wouldn't think you would judging by your attitude and manners) than I don't care to explain it to you.

Umm... Nine... Nine single people paid ten grand each...

Also, pretty sure what he means is that if you take your ball and go home not only are you going to be alone over this we have dozens of people all auto-refreshing to get your tiers....



How is Ozmono trying to get free stuff by pledging MORE money?

Because a year of free drafts is worth more then the cost to get it, 324 i think people have said?

So, yeah, kinda like that.


I really don't see how this is even considered greedy. I'd like to remind you that these tiers are paid for (only at a discount).

Kickstarting is donating, with a reward.

Your not purchasing a box of cards from a store, your donating money and getting a free hat, technically.

That is why your not having taxes applied to your purchase.

Diesbudt
06-05-2013, 07:03 PM
Well sorry. Guess the point goes out the window does it? Or is 10k a drop in the ocean two. What about the combined value of the 9 people who paid it?
I cannot believe the hostility in this thread/

The point I made must have missed you if you were serious on using some metaphor of what you said compared to KS.

aka If you do not like it, then don't do it. No one is making you. Simple as that. No one will care because it is only $500. Again simple as that. They said they will not merge them, and they explained a few different times why, how it would detract from people who pledged PP and so on and thus would falsify what they offered to other people already chosen tiers.

Plus good stuff must be limited. Live with it, or don't. It is your choice.

Kami
06-05-2013, 07:04 PM
Umm... Nine... Nine single people paid ten grand each...

Ten. :p

Although there may be a few companies that account for a few of those.

nicosharp
06-05-2013, 07:04 PM
I don't understand the negative attitudes against Ozmono's suggestion.

The only difference to not allowing someone to stack the $250 tier drafts, is to make those pledgers keep their tier's separate on different accounts.

Just like a lot of you posting, that were able to stack PP pledges, or even GK pledges with multiple "lifetime" drafts.... Why are you any better than him?

(I know it has already been established that it won't stack, just sayin')

DjiN
06-05-2013, 07:04 PM
I really don't see how this is even considered greedy. I'd like to remind you that these tiers are paid for (only at a discount). And like I said in a previous post, why punish people who pay 100%. If they are taking some component off the pledge when merging, they should be removing a portion of the price as well.

And yea, it would be great if more people are in the pledges, but as it stand, there is an excess of limited pledges.

The free draft a year was added AFTER the tiers where announced. It was a GIFT for people feeling bad about not getting the ProPlayer Tier. It was NOT intended to be a value cow you can milk like crazy. We receive so much value already, but yes you need more, every day. It's not enough to get more free PvE cards, no you need another 360$ value. I see your point, its totally NOT greedy.

Talreth
06-05-2013, 07:05 PM
I cannot believe the hostility in this thread/

I cannot believe how petulant and self-entitled you are

dodecapod
06-05-2013, 07:06 PM
The free drafts are a bonus, bought for you by all the other backers.

You can't actually apply this to all backers. This only applies to people who have purchased prior to this change. For people who pledged after the change, the free drafts is inclusive of the price they pay (because obviously, their decision would have been different had it not been there in the first place). So in the end, free drafts is not a bonus, but a part of the tiers.

OutlandishMatt
06-05-2013, 07:06 PM
$250 tiers do stack, when you just make multiple accounts. Just make additional Kickstarter accounts and don't combine them.

Talreth
06-05-2013, 07:06 PM
I don't understand the negative attitudes against Ozmono's suggestion.

The only difference to not allowing someone to stack the $250 tier drafts, is to make those pledgers keep their tier's separate on different accounts.

Just like a lot of you posting, that were able to stack PP pledges, or even GK pledges with multiple "lifetime" drafts.... Why are you any better than him?

We're not better, just faster. And that's how exclusive things work. Every person had an equal opportunity to pledge. He did not pledge PP or GK in time, so his remaining options are the PvE/CL tiers which got the added BONUS of the drafts. Seriously, where does it stop

Ozmono
06-05-2013, 07:07 PM
I cannot believe how petulant and self-entitled you are
I asked nicely, I didn't go out of my way to insult anyone. I ask who is petulant?

IndigoShade
06-05-2013, 07:07 PM
They said they were going to allow tier stacking and they're sticking by their word. Great! Those of us benefiting from it should probably just be grateful that they are.

That said, to come out and admit that the other tiers weren't balanced with the Pro tier and to buff them up with this 1 year of drafting and then say that it doesn't stack does seem like they're trying to step back from stance as much they can while still keeping to the promise they made. Which is both admirable and kind of awkward at the same time.

Tyrfang
06-05-2013, 07:07 PM
I don't understand the negative attitudes against Ozmono's suggestion.

The only difference to not allowing someone to stack the $250 tier drafts, is to make those pledgers keep their tier's separate on different accounts.

Just like a lot of you posting, that were able to stack PP pledges, or even GK pledges with multiple "lifetime" drafts.... Why are you any better than him?

(I know it has already been established that it won't stack, just sayin')


Don't know why there's a harsh reaction either, but I'm not stacking two $250s.

Tyrfang
06-05-2013, 07:08 PM
It's funny how this is basically the opposite side of the pendulum when the bonus drafts were announce in the first place...

OutlandishMatt
06-05-2013, 07:09 PM
I would make the same point but use the fact that I can have multiple Kickstarter accounts or also pay through PayPal and get as many as I want and the one year rewards would essential stack. So to me, it's pointless to say they won't stack them because they legalized alternate means to stack them. You just won't be able to get all your $250 bonuses under one account.

nicosharp
06-05-2013, 07:09 PM
Don't know why there's a harsh reaction either, but I'm not stacking two $250s.

Me either, I'll happily keep my GK separate from my "wife's" collector. I hope "she" can remember her password.

Talreth
06-05-2013, 07:09 PM
They said they were going to allow tier stacking and they're sticking by their word. Great! Those of us benefiting from it should probably just be grateful that they are.

That said, to come out and admit that the other tiers weren't balanced with the Pro tier and to buff them up with this 1 year of drafting and then say that it doesn't stack does seem like they're trying to step back from stance as much they can while still keeping to the promise they made. Which is both admirable and kind of awkward at the same time.

Honestly I think they got excited with the initial response to the KS and didn't think through their decisions as much as they should have. Cory himself said it wasn't intended and seemed a bit regretful, and I am 100% sure this was a strong learning experience for them. It is awkward, definitely, but I am willing to forgive a company making their first online venture (I remember Riot had some pretty bad mess ups early too, but they turned out great, disregarding recent pricing changes).

Diesbudt
06-05-2013, 07:09 PM
I asked nicely, I didn't go out of my way to insult anyone. I ask who is petulant?

And we gave you and anwser, you didn't like it or want to accept it. Thus we explained and again were upset with it with some un-needed complaint.

dodecapod
06-05-2013, 07:10 PM
The free draft a year was added AFTER the tiers where announced. It was a GIFT for people feeling bad about not getting the ProPlayer Tier. It was NOT intended to be a value cow you can milk like crazy. We receive so much value already, but yes you need more, every day. It's not enough to get more free PvE cards, no you need another 360$ value. I see your point, its totally NOT greedy.

Please refer back to my post in regards to paying 100% and receiving less than that on merging. I am talking about the practical sense of this whole idea of merging and reducing what people pay for. Don't include emotions into the discussion such as "greedy" or feeling unfair.

Diesbudt
06-05-2013, 07:10 PM
Honestly I think they got excited with the initial response to the KS and didn't think through their decisions as much as they should have. Cory himself said it wasn't intended and seemed a bit regretful, and I am 100% sure this was a strong learning experience for them. It is awkward, definitely, but I am willing to forgive a company making their first online venture (I remember Riot had some pretty bad mess ups early too, but they turned out great, disregarding recent pricing changes).

If they did it over again they wouldn't stack any tiers.

Its just that so many spent $1000+ stacking many different tiers by the time they realized they decided to go ahead and stack them.

Raykefire
06-05-2013, 07:11 PM
I do get a little upset by this too, I am still going to pledge the same $1500, but now my wife and I will have to manage 5 accounts (still merging RL and DC and keeping 4 collectors separate) just so I don't feel I am "losing out" on the drafts, when I just really want the collectors cards. It would be silly to merge them and lose out on that much value just because we want play sets of the AA cards.

Tyrfang
06-05-2013, 07:11 PM
If only I could go back and 3x PP. :)

Talreth
06-05-2013, 07:12 PM
I would make the same point but use the fact that I can have multiple Kickstarter accounts or also pay through PayPal and get as many as I want and the one year rewards would essential stack. So to me, it's pointless to say they won't stack them because they legalized alternate means to stack them. You just won't be able to get all your $250 bonuses under one account.

I think they realize some people will do this, but as a f2p game there is no way they can really prevent you except by making you expend some more effort, which will probably deter some people. However, see my other post about how this wasn't their intention anyways.

Ozmono
06-05-2013, 07:12 PM
And we gave you and anwser, you didn't like it or want to accept it. Thus we explained and again were upset with it with some un-needed complaint.

I got the answer in the form of being called greedy, self entitled and so on. Other than those comments I wasn't upset, confused? yes but upset no.

nicosharp
06-05-2013, 07:13 PM
I do get a little upset by this too, I am still going to pledge the same $1500, but now my wife and I will have to manage 5 accounts (still merging RL and DC and keeping 4 collectors separate) just so I don't feel I am "losing out" on the drafts, when I just really want the collectors cards. It would be silly to merge them and lose out on that much value just because we want play sets of the AA cards.
And for that specific situation, it really sucks that pure stacking is not allowed for those tiers. Still cool that you found a way to get all 3 benefits for the two of you. Also thank you for funding the kickstarter!

Talreth
06-05-2013, 07:13 PM
If they did it over again they wouldn't stack any tiers.

Its just that so many spent $1000+ stacking many different tiers by the time they realized they decided to go ahead and stack them.

afaik at that point they had only officially confirmed 3x stacking of PP

Mavian
06-05-2013, 07:13 PM
I asked nicely, I didn't go out of my way to insult anyone. I ask who is petulant?

You have to understand, the thread you posted is not a new or fresh idea. Its been beaten on these forums for a couple weeks now and similar discussions over these things when the Pro Player originally sold out almost 3 weeks ago. CZE has been pretty firm in their stances. They didn't expect the rush to merge multiple tiers during the first week and Cory has stated he regretted allowing it in hindsight as they thought Hex wouldn't balloon to these proportions. So to stop it from happening again, they nixed the stacking on single accounts for the other 250 tier drafts.

It's unfortunate that early backers perhaps abused or gamed the system in some peoples' thought, but it's like any limited product. Sometimes people will find out about things late, but there's nothing much that can be done. Sure they could open more tiers, but that reeks of money grubbing and Crypto and not a good way to start off a new product IP

Ozmono
06-05-2013, 07:13 PM
As for those talking about the pro tier, that's not what I intended this thread to be about, I missed the pro tier. It's about any pledge 250 or over having the free weeking draft stacking when merging, the pro tier aside.

Kiworrior
06-05-2013, 07:16 PM
Sure they could open more tiers, but that reeks of money grubbing and Crypto and not a good way to start off a new product IP

True, but some people are literally yelling "Shut up and take my money!" and are even going so far as to use automated methods of grabbing some reward tiers (some even publicly boast about it on these forums!).

Talreth
06-05-2013, 07:16 PM
I guess while we're at it, why don't DC and GL buffs stack with themselves?

Tyrfang
06-05-2013, 07:17 PM
Honestly, Star Citizen allowed extra pledges, but only during live stream events, and in extremely limited amounts.

I think that would have been workable for Hex as well.

Too late now, though.

Ozmono
06-05-2013, 07:17 PM
I guess while we're at it, why don't DC and GL buffs stack with themselves?

As I said in my first sentence of my first post I can understand why some thinks aren't stacked but all this is going to do is make people use two accounts.

Genocidal
06-05-2013, 07:18 PM
As for those talking about the pro tier, that's not what I intended this thread to be about, I missed the pro tier. It's about any pledge 250 or over having the free weeking draft stacking when merging, the pro tier aside.

The background about the pro tier is important to understand why they aren't allowing stacking of the other tiers. People were complaining that Pro Player's value was WAY out of line with the other tiers, so they added a year of free drafts to placate them. However, to prevent stacking that they in hindsight realized was a bad idea, they limited the drafts. This had the nice side effect of not letting a few people grab up all the tiers and stacking them, giving more people the chance to get in on these tiers.

If they allowed stacking of the $250 draft bonuses, you probably wouldn't have had a chance at purchasing a $250 tier to be honest.

Ozmono
06-05-2013, 07:20 PM
The background about the pro tier is important to understand why they aren't allowing stacking of the other tiers. People were complaining that Pro Player's value was WAY out of line with the other tiers, so they added a year of free drafts to placate them. However, to prevent stacking that they in hindsight realized was a bad idea, they limited the drafts. This had the nice side effect of not letting a few people grab up all the tiers and stacking them, giving more people the chance to get in on these tiers.

If they allowed stacking of the $250 draft bonuses, you probably wouldn't have had a chance at purchasing a $250 tier to be honest.

Okay and thanks for the info. To be fair though there is less than two days remaining and almost 2.5k of the 250 dollar tiers still available.

Talreth
06-05-2013, 07:21 PM
Okay and thanks for the info. To be fair though there is less than two days remaining and almost 2.5k of the 250 dollar tiers still available.

You should have seen how fast PP and GK sold out

Tyrfang
06-05-2013, 07:23 PM
You should have seen how fast PP and GK sold out

Dragon Lord sold out before GK.

Wow...Primal is almost sold out.

dodecapod
06-05-2013, 07:26 PM
You should have seen how fast PP and GK sold out

Which shows a good indication of the value of PP/GK compared to the other tiers. Clearly the free drafts have added very little value to the tiers. So, again I ask, why are they punishing people who pay 100% for a tier that is no where near the value of PP/GK. Would stacking free drafts really burst sales? It is limited to one year.

Tyrfang
06-05-2013, 07:27 PM
Which shows a good indication of the value of PP/GK compared to the other tiers. Clearly the free drafts have added very little value to the tiers. So, again I ask, why are they punishing people who pay 100% for a tier that is no where near the value of PP/GK. Would stacking free drafts really burst sales? It is limited to one year.

Actually, DC sold out relatively quickly, as well.

He meant that there was a BURST of people pledging that tier as it hit around 100-200.

Talreth
06-05-2013, 07:27 PM
Which shows a good indication of the value of PP/GK compared to the other tiers. Clearly the free drafts have added very little value to the tiers. So, again I ask, why are they punishing people who pay 100% for a tier that is no where near the value of PP/GK. Would stacking free drafts really burst sales? It is limited to one year.

Because they didn't want it to turn out like that in the first place, so they tried to stem the tide.

Malicus
06-05-2013, 07:28 PM
Okay and thanks for the info. To be fair though there is less than two days remaining and almost 2.5k of the 250 dollar tiers still available.

Changes this late are the worst time. Many people will have locked in their pledges with certain expectations, this is likely part of why crypto sticks to their decisions once made. How would you feel having pledged only one collector because drafts didn't stack to come back after the KS and see they now do? You are asking for something that was specifically designed against and only want to hear people agree with you, this creates the animosity you feel which is largely frustration from other posters that you just want more and more.

dodecapod
06-05-2013, 07:30 PM
Actually, DC sold out relatively quickly, as well.

He meant that there was a BURST of people pledging that tier as it hit around 100-200.

I dunno, DC didn't sell out relatively quickly imo, in fact yesterday it still had a few more spots. I also think that DC sold out, not because of the free drafts for one year, but rather because of the 100% loot drop. As more and more information about the mechanic was revealed, more and more hype was being built and people started realizing that the 100% loot drop actually has value in it.

Ozmono
06-05-2013, 07:31 PM
Changes this late are the worst time. Many people will have locked in their pledges with certain expectations, this is likely part of why crypto sticks to their decisions once made. How would you feel having pledged only one collector because drafts didn't stack to come back after the KS and see they now do? You are asking for something that was specifically designed against and only want to hear people agree with you, this creates the animosity you feel which is largely frustration from other posters that you just want more and more.
That's a fair point. I don't feel it justifies a couple of posters comments but it's a fair point nonetheless.

Kiworrior
06-05-2013, 07:32 PM
I dunno, DC didn't sell out relatively quickly imo, in fact yesterday it still had a few more spots.

Even today there were a few times where it became available for a few minutes.

Genocidal
06-05-2013, 07:33 PM
Which shows a good indication of the value of PP/GK compared to the other tiers. Clearly the free drafts have added very little value to the tiers. So, again I ask, why are they punishing people who pay 100% for a tier that is no where near the value of PP/GK. Would stacking free drafts really burst sales? It is limited to one year.

Those tiers sold out before the free drafts were added, and were added because how fast PP/GK sold out. The way humans are wired, once they've made a decision to spend money on something it's hard to make them change their mind on it. Honestly, I think DC's value rivals that of Pro if you plan on playing a lot of PVE; probably why it was the next tier to sell out. Saying that a year of free drafts adds very little value is.... insane, to put it nicely.

dodecapod
06-05-2013, 07:38 PM
Saying that a year of free drafts adds very little value is.... insane, to put it nicely.

It does add value, and yea I would still consider it little especially once you take a gander at the RL, GM, and even the collectors tier.

funktion
06-05-2013, 07:40 PM
Tier stacking was never intended. If you want to have your cake and eat it two, you're gonna have to just suck it up and take the 2 minutes to make a second account and trade everything to your first.

/signed someone who was able to tier stack before everyone else got drafts

jeff
06-05-2013, 08:22 PM
The question nobody has asked yet is: if we were allowed to stack the year's free draft, who would lose? Like literally, no longer have something that they had before?

The answer to that is pretty simple: nobody. Nobody loses. I'm not sure why either side of this argument is so passionate about arguing their point. The people who multi-pledged for multiple year's worth of free drafts are just going to not merge their account. The people who multi-pledged and don't care about free drafts are going to merge their account anyway.

And contrary to what people seem to believe, pro-player backers lose nothing if other people are allowed to MERGE. They pledged their tier loooong before the year of free drafts was brought up, and had ample opportunity to jump ship after the year of free drafts was brought up. Anyone still sitting on one (or two, or three) is obviously happy with his or her choice.

Frankly, not gaining a year of free drafts from merging is just a mild inconvenience. They can't stop people from pledging multiple tiers, and they can't exactly ban people with multiple accounts in one household. Given those two facts, they really should just let people merge all the non-unique pledge rewards instead of saddling people with the hassle of needing to juggle multiple accounts. You'd be saving us the three minutes it would take to log off and back on again.

Turtlewing
06-05-2013, 08:27 PM
Did they atleast say why? It's not really changing the tiers, it's just supporting the merging of them better.

Because they didn't really want us stacking pledges in the first place but we kind of cornered them into it. At least tots how it looked to me.

TheWrathofShane
06-05-2013, 08:28 PM
Funny because I find yours the same. Calling me greedy isn't called for. If they didn't want to give out these rewards than they wouldn't have even better rewards for higher tiers.

Guys, if your willing to spend 500 on the kickstarter, they want you to be happy!!
The logic was that the other tiers did not have free draft for life, and they dont want to take away from the Pro Player.

TheWrathofShane
06-05-2013, 08:29 PM
The question nobody has asked yet is: if we were allowed to stack the year's free draft, who would lose? Like literally, no longer have something that they had before?

The answer to that is pretty simple: nobody. Nobody loses. I'm not sure why either side of this argument is so passionate about arguing their point. The people who multi-pledged for multiple year's worth of free drafts are just going to not merge their account. The people who multi-pledged and don't care about free drafts are going to merge their account anyway.

And contrary to what people seem to believe, pro-player backers lose nothing if other people are allowed to MERGE. They pledged their tier loooong before the year of free drafts was brought up, and had ample opportunity to jump ship after the year of free drafts was brought up. Anyone still sitting on one (or two, or three) is obviously happy with his or her choice.

Frankly, not gaining a year of free drafts from merging is just a mild inconvenience. They can't stop people from pledging multiple tiers, and they can't exactly ban people with multiple accounts in one household. Given those two facts, they really should just let people merge all the non-unique pledge rewards instead of saddling people with the hassle of needing to juggle multiple accounts. You'd be saving us the three minutes it would take to log off and back on again.


This is very true.

dogmod
06-05-2013, 08:31 PM
The question nobody has asked yet is: if we were allowed to stack the year's free draft, who would lose? Like literally, no longer have something that they had before?

The answer to that is pretty simple: nobody. Nobody loses. I'm not sure why either side of this argument is so passionate about arguing their point. The people who multi-pledged for multiple year's worth of free drafts are just going to not merge their account. The people who multi-pledged and don't care about free drafts are going to merge their account anyway.

And contrary to what people seem to believe, pro-player backers lose nothing if other people are allowed to MERGE. They pledged their tier loooong before the year of free drafts was brought up, and had ample opportunity to jump ship after the year of free drafts was brought up. Anyone still sitting on one (or two, or three) is obviously happy with his or her choice.

Frankly, not gaining a year of free drafts from merging is just a mild inconvenience. They can't stop people from pledging multiple tiers, and they can't exactly ban people with multiple accounts in one household. Given those two facts, they really should just let people merge all the non-unique pledge rewards instead of saddling people with the hassle of needing to juggle multiple accounts. You'd be saving us the three minutes it would take to log off and back on again.

Gift horse... may I see your mouth?

Avedecus
06-05-2013, 08:41 PM
This is very true.

No it isn't. The people who'd lose are the ones that wouldn't be fast enough to buy up multiple accounts.

TheWrathofShane
06-05-2013, 08:43 PM
I am very satisfied with king! (would go higher if I could afford) Looking forward to seeing you guys in game :)

TheWrathofShane
06-05-2013, 08:44 PM
No it isn't. The people who'd lose are the ones that wouldn't be fast enough to buy up multiple accounts.

They offered 500 for the grand king, someone is willing to spend 500 on kickstarter they want them to be happy.

In my opinion they should have never limited the tiers in the first place.

Ozmono
06-05-2013, 08:44 PM
No it isn't. The people who'd lose are the ones that wouldn't be fast enough to buy up multiple accounts.

The point is if people would be willing to do that, they would've probably done it already and just not merge their accounts. There are still well over 2 thousand of those accounts left despite this.

caffn8d
06-05-2013, 09:04 PM
Clearly the intention was to make those tiers more attractive without encouraging people to stack more tiers. Do what you feel you have to, but asking for this change would cause far more trouble in the community at this point than it is worth.

TheWrathofShane
06-05-2013, 10:53 PM
The point is if people would be willing to do that, they would've probably done it already and just not merge their accounts. There are still well over 2 thousand of those accounts left despite this.

Yeah why punish people for wanting to spend money?
I mean spending 500 dollars is double the pro player, and they still do not get drafts for LIFE, but 2 full years if it stacked.

Theres no reason why they would want to discourage stacking besides having that "limited stock". Remove the limited supply and would be better I think! But then unable to do it after the kickstarter of course, so limited in that sense.

Avedecus
06-05-2013, 11:03 PM
Stacking drafts doesn't add one year to one year. It adds one draft per week per stack. That's a lot of free cards.

Ozmono
06-05-2013, 11:06 PM
Stacking drafts doesn't add one year to one year. It adds one draft per week per stack. That's a lot of free cards.

If I had the option to stack one year to one year I'd do that over two times a week for one year. It's the same amount of boosters and with two 250 tiers or more your probably going to have most of the set 1 cards you'd ever want. If you had the two years though, you'd probably get to play in drafts for different sets. I suppose you could always trade excess cards but I still don't see how it makes Jeffs post or wrathofshanes posts any less true.

jaxsonbateman
06-05-2013, 11:08 PM
I would very much like this, as for me it would pretty much eliminate any reason to not merge my accounts - pretty much, my choices at the moment are merge for significant convenience (especially because they both offer PvE bonuses, albeit in different areas), or keep split for an extra 156 boosters in the year.

Probably going to merge, but I wish I wasn't giving up so many boosters to do so.

Ozmono
06-05-2013, 11:10 PM
I would very much like this, as for me it would pretty much eliminate any reason to not merge my accounts - pretty much, my choices at the moment are merge for significant convenience (especially because they both offer PvE bonuses, albeit in different areas), or keep split for an extra 156 boosters in the year.

Probably going to merge, but I wish I wasn't giving up so many boosters to do so.
That's exactly how I feel but I haven't decided to merge yet. I would much prefer to merge aswell but I'm not sure I'm willing to give up so many drafts.

jaxsonbateman
06-05-2013, 11:14 PM
I did confirm with them that the big thing they have a problem with from multiple accounts is one player subbing to the VIP prog multiple times, and that in terms of trading items and cards between accounts frequently they'd be fine. But still, it'd mean enforced levelling of multiple champions and mercs, and having to run the occasional dungeon without loot bonus in order to unlock raids. And if Cory was actually right and DC affected raid loot chance (doesn't seem likely, but it's possible), then merging would be essential.

Just have to weigh up whether or not the convenience of merging is worth $312 of boosters, + the prizes they'd roll into.

TheWrathofShane
06-06-2013, 12:03 AM
I did confirm with them that the big thing they have a problem with from multiple accounts is one player subbing to the VIP prog multiple times, and that in terms of trading items and cards between accounts frequently they'd be fine. But still, it'd mean enforced levelling of multiple champions and mercs, and having to run the occasional dungeon without loot bonus in order to unlock raids. And if Cory was actually right and DC affected raid loot chance (doesn't seem likely, but it's possible), then merging would be essential.

Just have to weigh up whether or not the convenience of merging is worth $312 of boosters, + the prizes they'd roll into.


I dont understand why merging should be a problem. People are willing to spend the money, and they chose to spend a large amount upfront so let the customers be happy.

Shouldn't punish someone for merging accounts by making drafts not stack, otherwise they will just keep the accounts separate.

dodecapod
06-06-2013, 12:08 AM
I dont understand why merging should be a problem. People are willing to spend the money, and they chose to spend a large amount upfront so let the customers be happy.

Shouldn't punish someone for merging accounts by making drafts not stack, otherwise they will just keep the accounts separate.

Exactly this. I dunno how some people can't handle this simple concept. *shrug*

jaxsonbateman
06-06-2013, 12:14 AM
Oh, I don't think it should be a problem. But they're giving up a lot of potential profits with the massive size of their KS packages, so maybe they wanted to cut it back again, with this as a method. Or it could be something to do with coding being too difficult.

Fortunately, I believe we don't have to decide to merge until the beta approaches.

TheWrathofShane
06-06-2013, 12:14 AM
They already over exceeded the expected money spent for most of the kickstarter players. Any money we put into the game after launch will be pure luxury.

But I imagine that this game will get more popular after kickstarter, and new players will put money in to draft and buy singles.

Ozmono
06-06-2013, 12:19 AM
They already over exceeded the expected money spent for most of the kickstarter players. Any money we put into the game after launch will be pure luxury.

But I imagine that this game will get more popular after kickstarter, and new players will put money in to draft and buy singles.
I agree. If they were asking for 300k and they are nearly 2mil over that than I'm sure they can manage. To be fair on them though, with that extra money has come extra obligations such as tablet support and other things that will consume their time thus some of their money too. Also I imagine there will be an excess of set 1 cards floating about cheap on the auction house because of the kickstarter rewards which might drive down booster sales. That said almost 2million over what you asked for is still alot.

TheWrathofShane
06-06-2013, 12:38 AM
I agree. If they were asking for 300k and they are nearly 2mil over that than I'm sure they can manage. To be fair on them though, with that extra money has come extra obligations such as tablet support and other things that will consume their time thus some of their money too. Also I imagine there will be an excess of set 1 cards floating about cheap on the auction house because of the kickstarter rewards which might drive down booster sales. That said almost 2million over what you asked for is still alot.


Well, a new game from the store costs 60 dollars. The lifetime expected money from a dedicated player probably was around 500 or so. They paid up front... whats the problem again?

Also, the excess of set 1 cards is going to attract a lot of new players. Because they will be all like, "I can make a decent budget deck for a few dollars!!!! YAAAY!! Just like on MTGO. And I am sure the new guys are going to pay for drafts and a VIP will be a nice source of income.

Ozmono
06-06-2013, 12:45 AM
Well, a new game from the store costs 60 dollars. The lifetime expected money from a dedicated player probably was around 500 or so. They paid up front... whats the problem again?

Also, the excess of set 1 cards is going to attract a lot of new players. Because they will be all like, "I can make a decent budget deck for a few dollars!!!! YAAAY!! Just like on MTGO. And I am sure the new guys are going to pay for drafts and a VIP will be a nice source of income.
As I said I agree. I just wanted to be fair.

TheWrathofShane
06-06-2013, 12:45 AM
Another cute point..
Whats the difference again between someone who bought x2 250 packages, over two people who bought x1 250?

Not much... the person will have the cards and rewards of two different people, but it will equal out to be the exact same thing in the big picture.

Indormi
06-06-2013, 01:32 AM
For all the people stacking anything with collectors, not making 2 accounts is dumb as hell right now. Collectors benefit are 100% tradeable. It is just making it more unconfortable to manage. I also agree that making 1 year free draft stacks, do not make anyone "lose". And as TheWrathofShane just said, what is the different of someone having 2 pledges from someone having just 1?

At this point they probably wont change it, but still I think that at least Collector(which benefits are 100% tradeable) should be able to stack. The other tiers you have to make a tradeoff, the benefit of having the benefit or having the year of drafts.

larryhl
06-06-2013, 02:21 AM
If they're going to stack the free drafts, I'd rather they do it the same way they're doing the PP drafts for life, and that is allowing extra free drafts per week, not adding an extra year. This way they get the first year craziness out of the way, but everyone keeps their "extra" drafts without having to go through multiple accounts. Also, this means you get the same "benefit" out of the one merged account that you would have gotten from the multiple accounts anyway.

supasnake
06-06-2013, 03:32 AM
larry's point is right on the mark. Essentially as it is now, most people will have at least two accounts. If they allowed the drafts to combine it is the exact same result sans extra accounts. I'm not understanding all the retaliation towards the OP. A lot of people grabbed GK + multiple PPs early. Do we really want half the community to be shell accounts? Plus to use that Cryptic is losing money is a shallow argument. The idea is exciting, but more than half the backers would have never backed if it wasn't for the rewards. As it currently stands the avg amount a backer has spent is $140. So to ask if you could simply merge that one reward so you don't have to create two accounts seems reasonable to me.

But they won't so they will see 16,000 accounts with a quarter of those being shell accounts.

Liokae
06-06-2013, 03:42 AM
16,000 accounts with a quarter of those being shell accounts.

4,000 shell accounts, huh? So you're expecting DC, RL, GL, and Collector's to all sell out completely, and for EVERY SINGLE ONE of those pledges to be a shell account for a PP or GK?

McKahlan
06-06-2013, 04:12 AM
I can only be mad at imagining all those PP account only used once a week for a draft... People are way too greedy and certainly not willing to share with their community...

Indormi
06-06-2013, 04:14 AM
4,000 shell accounts, huh? So you're expecting DC, RL, GL, and Collector's to all sell out completely, and for EVERY SINGLE ONE of those pledges to be a shell account for a PP or GK?

I wouldnt expect 1/4 but many GK and DL, at least for what you can see on their signatures, are multipledgers. ( You cant escalate from that, but it surely gives the impression that most of them are multipledgers).

Also multipledging only comes on high tiers, you arent going to see people multipledging knight, or squire for themselves. Shell accounts are from king and above and will only come to profit from the 1 year draft deal. So the amount of shell accounts cant be higher than the number of DC, RL, GL, Collectors sold all together. At this point 1.600 or so. So at max 10% of current population will be shell accounts.

Arbiter
06-06-2013, 04:37 AM
I understand why the no stacking was put in place. It gave people a chance at grabbing a deal slightly better than two kings (if playing the game for a year) without making them attractive to the people already stacking.

Having said no stacking, I think it would be bad after a tier and a half of those extra ones have been sold to reverse that decision. By the same token, it is a lousy deal for those who want the Crawler and the Raid Leader, as separate, they require twice as much work to level.

As the separation was to prevent people stacking drafts, I wonder if it would be possible to stack all the non-draft components but force the drafts to be on separate accounts. It preserves the intent behind "no stacking" while not making it impossible to join two bonuses together that are worth so much more on the same account.

Indormi
06-06-2013, 04:47 AM
I understand why the no stacking was put in place. It gave people a chance at grabbing a deal slightly better than two kings (if playing the game for a year) without making them attractive to the people already stacking.

Having said no stacking, I think it would be bad after a tier and a half of those extra ones have been sold to reverse that decision. By the same token, it is a lousy deal for those who want the Crawler and the Raid Leader, as separate, they require twice as much work to level.

As the separation was to prevent people stacking drafts, I wonder if it would be possible to stack all the non-draft components but force the drafts to be on separate accounts. It preserves the intent behind "no stacking" while not making it impossible to join two bonuses together that are worth so much more on the same account.

This they will definetly won't do, I'm sure. There are 2 choices:

1) Leave it as it is (95% chance), this is for stacking not being too good, and if you want to benefit from 2 year drafts, you need to have your PvE bonuses also splitted. (A particular case is collector, that it does not have any tradeback having 2 accounts as the benefits are 100% tradeable)

2)Making them stackable (5% chance) You can see the arguments all over this threads and others (what is the difference between 1 player paying 500 bucks or 2 playing 250 bucks, people will just do shell accounts, cause the 1 year draft outvalues most of the other benefits ...)

So two attitudes possible, totally embrace high-tier multipledging, or partially embrace it.

Zomnivore
06-06-2013, 05:27 AM
Many people on here have shown the means and the willingness to spend the 250+ multiple times to get the tiers.

I think it was intelligent to not let them stack, as many people were miffed about the whole stacking thing mid way through, and that sort of gave them less incentive to do so.

I think over all that its probably for the best, as well as being slight long erm affects of free cards pumped into the system over the course of a couple years.

Indormi
06-06-2013, 05:37 AM
Many people on here have shown the means and the willingness to spend the 250+ multiple times to get the tiers.

I think it was intelligent to not let them stack, as many people were miffed about the whole stacking thing mid way through, and that sort of gave them less incentive to do so.

I think over all that its probably for the best, as well as being slight long erm affects of free cards pumped into the system over the course of a couple years.

Drafts for life DO stack with each other, so if you go PPx2 or GK+PP you get 2 free drafts a week for life. What it doesnt stack is the
1 year free draft, not with itself nor with the draft for life. What they are asking for here is to let the 1 year free draft stack with itself or draft for life. So is not over a couple of years, this change would only impact 1 year from now. And in reality it wont really impact cause 80-90% of multipledger will use 2 account and just trade all the cards to the "main" account. So is more an incovinent more than anything.

jeff
06-06-2013, 05:47 AM
No it isn't. The people who'd lose are the ones that wouldn't be fast enough to buy up multiple accounts.

That's disingenuous. The people not fast enough to buy multiple accounts still have their single account, which is what they wanted. If they were on the fence because of a minor inconvenience like needing to juggle two accounts, well there are consequences for sitting on the fence. Everyone gets what they paid for, and the people who seem to think that fairness involves having someone else get less will eventually get over it.

Cornholio666
06-06-2013, 05:58 AM
One of the main reason 1 yr doesn't stack is remember the GK and PP were sold out when they juiced the other 250's , if they stacked them they would also have to allow GK and PP to get them, so GK would get 1 draft for life plus "4x1 years free draft or 4 years x 1 free draft" on top and PP would get an additional 1 year free draft on top. Then we would circle right back around to " GK and and PP are so overpowered and I can't get one I iz sad" . It would just be a never ending cycle.

Also just the fact that PP tier's only bonus is the free draft, it is helpful I think to consider the other tiers as "DC + 1 year PP";"Collector + 1yr PP"etc. - in that context all other 250's are now better for one year than PP.

Obviously PP is much better because of lifetime; but we are getting dangerously close to 1000 PP complaining that they should get 1 yr of DC or 1yr of collector added to PP "because it's no longer worth anything the first year".....

In any case I'm looking forward to the KS ending shortly so we can go back to being just a community of people who all love an awesome new game and I hope any unintential animosity related to tiering is a soon a long forgotten memory. (crosses fingers).

jai151
06-06-2013, 06:06 AM
If it had stacked, two things would have happened.

1) All $250 tiers would have sold out. This is not a good thing, however, as they would have sold out to people who don't care about the other bonuses of the tiers, they just wanted the free drafts. While you can make the argument that it would have been more money to CZE, they already have more coming in from this kickstarter than they can use. While the other tiers as a whole haven't exactly been selling like hotcakes (Are hotcakes really that much of a goldmine?), the few who did want those bonuses would be screwed over by a bunch of people who didn't.

2) They would have to give Pro+ (or at least GK+) an additional year of free drafts. They got out of that with the fact it didn't stack. (EDIT: Bah, Cornholio beat me to the punch as I was writing this. That'll teach me to get distracted in the middle of a post.)

Indormi
06-06-2013, 06:09 AM
One of the main reason 1 yr doesn't stack is remember the GK and PP were sold out when they juiced the other 250's , if they stacked them they would also have to allow GK and PP to get them, so GK would get 1 draft for life plus "4x1 years free draft or 4 years x 1 free draft" on top and PP would get an additional 1 year free draft on top. Then we would circle right back around to " GK and and PP are so overpowered and I can't get one I iz sad" . It would just be a never ending cycle.

Also just the fact that PP tier's only bonus is the free draft, it is helpful I think to consider the other tiers as "DC + 1 year PP";"Collector + 1yr PP"etc. - in that context all other 250's are now better for one year than PP.

Obviously PP is much better because of lifetime; but we are getting dangerously close to 1000 PP complaining that they should get 1 yr of DC or 1yr of collector added to PP "because it's no longer worth anything the first year".....

In any case I'm looking forward to the KS ending shortly so we can go back to being just a community of people who all love an awesome new game and I hope any unintential animosity related to tiering is a soon a long forgotten memory. (crosses fingers).
Unless I mistaken this thread is NOT about giving PP and GK 1 year free draft on top of the other benefits, but to allow a GK+Collector (for instace) to have 2 free drafts the first year and 1 free draft after that. Or having a DC+ RL have 2 drafts a week the first year, instead of only 1 draft a week for a year.

Genocidal
06-06-2013, 06:09 AM
(Are hotcakes really that much of a goldmine?)

Yes. Hotcakes are delicious.


Unless I mistaken this thread is NOT about giving PP and GK 1 year free draft on top of the other benefits, but to allow a GK+Collector (for instace) to have 2 free drafts the first year and 1 free draft after that. Or having a DC+ RL have 2 drafts a week the first year, instead of only 1 draft a week for a year.

By virtue of the Grand King getting all the benefits of the lower tiers, Cryptozoic would have to give GKs 5 drafts/week for a year if they stacked. I'm very certain that's something they don't want to do.

jai151
06-06-2013, 06:11 AM
Unless I mistaken this thread is NOT about giving PP and GK 1 year free draft on top of the other benefits, but to allow a GK+Collector (for instace) to have 2 free drafts the first year and 1 free draft after that. Or having a DC+ RL have 2 drafts a week the first year, instead of only 1 draft a week for a year.

Because of the way GK is designed, it would get 3(minimum) free drafts the first year if the draft stacked in that scenario.

Cornholio666
06-06-2013, 06:11 AM
Unless I mistaken this thread is NOT about giving PP and GK 1 year free draft on top of the other benefits, but to allow a GK+Collector (for instace) to have 2 free drafts the first year and 1 free draft after that. Or having a DC+ RL have 2 drafts a week the first year, instead of only 1 draft a week for a year.

Right....I am pointing out why they didn't allow stacking for them because they then would have had to allow PP & GK to stack them also.

warstriker
06-06-2013, 06:13 AM
One of the main reason 1 yr doesn't stack is remember the GK and PP were sold out when they juiced the other 250's , if they stacked them they would also have to allow GK and PP to get them, so GK would get 1 draft for life plus "4x1 years free draft or 4 years x 1 free draft" on top and PP would get an additional 1 year free draft on top. Then we would circle right back around to " GK and and PP are so overpowered and I can't get one I iz sad" . It would just be a never ending cycle.

Also just the fact that PP tier's only bonus is the free draft, it is helpful I think to consider the other tiers as "DC + 1 year PP";"Collector + 1yr PP"etc. - in that context all other 250's are now better for one year than PP.

Obviously PP is much better because of lifetime; but we are getting dangerously close to 1000 PP complaining that they should get 1 yr of DC or 1yr of collector added to PP "because it's no longer worth anything the first year".....

In any case I'm looking forward to the KS ending shortly so we can go back to being just a community of people who all love an awesome new game and I hope any unintential animosity related to tiering is a soon a long forgotten memory. (crosses fingers).

This is my opinion about the topic. If CE wants to give all the 250 tiers and up the free draft for a year then they should simply limit it to one. In this case people can stack whatever they want but still get only one free draft for the first year. This means that if you pledged the pro-tier twice, you would get 2 free draft for the lifetime of the game and 1 free draft for the first year. In other words; having 3 free draft at the first year and 2 free draft every year after that.

Tyrfang
06-06-2013, 06:17 AM
This is my opinion about the topic. If CE wants to give all the 250 tiers and up the free draft for a year then they should simply limit it to one. In this case people can stack whatever they want but still get only one free draft for the first year. This means that if you pledged the pro-tier twice, you would get 2 free draft for the lifetime of the game and 1 free draft for the first year. In other words; having 3 free draft at the first year and 2 free draft every year after that.

That just makes Pro Tier better, which defeats the purpose of the year of drafts to begin with.

caffn8d
06-06-2013, 06:22 AM
You can argue all you want about the rationality behind allowing or not allowing it. The fact is that they clearly stated they didn't stack when the released the buff to the tiers. I completely understand wanting more for less. Everyone likes more stuff. But you're not "missing out" when they had it clearly posted as to the limits. If $300 over the course of a year is worth the headache of logging into two different accounts and not having all the tier benefits on just one, then by all means go nuts. Asking them to rescind a policy that was put into place to try and make things as fair as possible for everyone though? That just seems selfish to me and even further devalues the commitment of those who pledged at higher, non-stacked tiers to support the game.

Tyrfang
06-06-2013, 06:24 AM
Just have two accounts and keep the cards on one.

The only combination I can see being an issue is Dungeon Crawler + Raid Leader.

warstriker
06-06-2013, 06:31 AM
That just makes Pro Tier better, which defeats the purpose of the year of drafts to begin with.

I was under the impression that CE added this to make the other tiers more interesting not to make the Pro tier less valuable. The free drafting was very popular, so they added that to all the 250 tiers except the Pro Tier because that one was already sold out.

Indormi
06-06-2013, 06:32 AM
This is my opinion about the topic. If CE wants to give all the 250 tiers and up the free draft for a year then they should simply limit it to one. In this case people can stack whatever they want but still get only one free draft for the first year. This means that if you pledged the pro-tier twice, you would get 2 free draft for the lifetime of the game and 1 free draft for the first year. In other words; having 3 free draft at the first year and 2 free draft every year after that.

PP does not get a free draft for 1 year. It seems I do not explain myself well. I'll try again.

In this thread what it is NOT being ask for:

1) Letting a singular PP (or multiple of them) the 1 year free draft streach goal.

2) Letting a single GK having more than 1 draft a week lifetime

In this thread what it is being ask for:

1) Letting MULTIPLEDGERS stack the 1 year free draft in 1 SINGLE account

Currently if you buy 2 Collectors and merge the accounts you get all the benefits of having 2 collectors but you only have 1 free draft a year, intead of 2 free drafts a week for a year if you keep them on separete accounts.

CZE has also stated that having more than 1 accounts while you do NOT share the account information nor EXPLOIT some kind of system is ok with it. In other words, you can have the 2 account with the free draft a year given to your "mum, sister, wife, kids,drag queen alter ego" and make them log in and trade all the cards to your account, without an issue.

In other words, what it is being asked in this thread is to make the 1 year draft benefit stackable if YOU HAVE MORE THAN 1(collector, DC, RL or GL) pledge, via 1 DC and 1 RL pledge or via 1 Dragon Lord and 1 Collector pledge.

In the first case the result will be an account that has a 2 free drafts a week for the first year.

In the second case the resuelt will be an account that has 2 free drafts a week for the first year and only 1 free draft a week the follwing years

warstriker
06-06-2013, 06:40 AM
Still don't get it. A dragon lord also has the PP tier, but you want him to be able to stack but people with grand king or PP with another tier such as for example collector may not stack or do i read it wrong again?

caffn8d
06-06-2013, 06:43 AM
I know exactly what is being asked for. Just ask yourself why they went out of their way to specifically prohibit stacking the year drafts on one account when they released the buff. Hint: Dragon Lord and above were already a tenuous "value". Giving someone stacking 4x $250 nearly $1000 more in cards over the course of the first year via drafts by stacking tiers is a jerk move and comes off as a money grab.

Genocidal
06-06-2013, 06:49 AM
PP does not get a free draft for 1 year. It seems I do not explain myself well. I'll try again.

In this thread what it is NOT being ask for:

1) Letting a singular PP (or multiple of them) the 1 year free draft streach goal.

2) Letting a single GK having more than 1 draft a week lifetime

In this thread what it is being ask for:

1) Letting MULTIPLEDGERS stack the 1 year free draft in 1 SINGLE account

Currently if you buy 2 Collectors and merge the accounts you get all the benefits of having 2 collectors but you only have 1 free draft a year, intead of 2 free drafts a week for a year if you keep them on separete accounts.

You're asking for arbitrary and confusing changes to what they've already promised. Why should someone who missed out because they joined late get better benefits than someone who was an early backer and helped get the Kickstarter off the ground? Why should someone who pledged against the spirit of the campaign get more than someone who pledged everything into a single, higher tier?

Indormi
06-06-2013, 07:16 AM
You're asking for arbitrary and confusing changes to what they've already promised. Why should someone who missed out because they joined late get better benefits than someone who was an early backer and helped get the Kickstarter off the ground? Why should someone who pledged against the spirit of the campaign get more than someone who pledged everything into a single, higher tier?

What you say makes perfect sense. Also, in my case it really doesnt matter I only have 1 GK and can't really afford more unless I manage to sell something like right now, and even then I would grab a collector and wont lose a thing.

While what you said makes perfect sense and I almost completely agree with you, you also need to think that there are not that many options from more than 1000$, the next tier is more than double and the next one 5 times and the last 10 times. So multipledging is more of a thing for people that are expending 500-1500$.

In addition what does it matter that instead of 2 players, only 1 player pays for it? (well, we have less community but thats about it). Also as it is today, it is really more than an incoveniece that another thing. You just make X amount of accounts and problem solved, you play for a year a dump them or whatever. Is not as they are going to have to pay them more than if 2 different people have bought the account.

The "problem" is that CZE has made a "grey" statement, saying they dont fully support multipledging, but they also dont fully prohibit it.(They said that multipledging is ok at start and they have to go with it now). What I want to see is that while they dont fully support multipledging, there is no issue having more than account either, so whatever they do people are still going to get the 1 year free drafts. Making them fully stackable only means that there wont be shell accounts and that you wont need to juggle accounts, which is the only drawback. And is not even that hard of a juggle, as you only need to log once a week for the first year.

jeff
06-06-2013, 07:17 AM
Not certain how that's arbitrary or confusing. Gk and pp get one free draft a week for life. If they multi pledge something else, they get however many free drafts that something else gets. Its absurd to suggest that anyone is asking for gk to get four free drafts a week (straw man argument, nobody has suggested that).

I also don't see how multi pledging is against the spirit of the campaign. If pp and gk can stack a bunch of pp and gk for full value, it's pretty ugly for someone stacking like that to come in here and argue that nobody else should be allowed to do so.

Especially since people are going to do it anyway. All you're arguing against is saving people the three minutes it would take to switch accounts. Or in the case of a pve multi pledge, you are forcing them to dilute their benefits between two accounts.

Indormi
06-06-2013, 07:19 AM
Not certain how that's arbitrary or confusing. Gk and pp get one free draft a week for life. If they multi pledge something else, they get however many free drafts that something else gets. Its absurd to suggest that anyone is asking for gk to get four free drafts a week (straw man argument, nobody has suggested that).

I also don't see how multi pledging is against the spirit of the campaign. If pp and gk can stack a bunch of pp and gk for full value, it's pretty ugly for someone stacking like that to come in here and argue that nobody else should be allowed to do so.

Especially since people are going to do it anyway. All you're arguing against is saving people the three minutes it would take to switch accounts. Or in the case of a pve multi pledge, you are forcing them to dilute their benefits between two accounts.

Yes people are going to do it anyway, and btw right now if you pledge GK and RL, you only get 1 free draft a week for life.( The 1 year free draft a week streach goal for RL is lost in the void )

Kami
06-06-2013, 07:25 AM
There's growing talk amongst the multi-pledgers that they will be multi-boxing or at least running multiple accounts to get the most out of it.

Even if it doesn't stack on a single account, I can guarantee you that people will game the system anyway to min-max.

Several people who have been sniping already own four tiers. They're intentionally sniping for more to resell later.

This problem is only the tip of the iceberg, it will be hard to say how it will damage the community after the KS ends from claims of scamming to unethical conduct.

Of course, if that doesn't happen, great! But knowing human nature, there will be a few public cases that will give Hex a black-eye, probably.

Indormi
06-06-2013, 07:29 AM
There's growing talk amongst the multi-pledgers that they will be multi-boxing or at least running multiple accounts to get the most out of it.

Even if it doesn't stack on a single account, I can guarantee you that people will game the system anyway to min-max.

Several people who have been sniping already own four tiers. They're intentionally sniping for more to resell later.

This problem is only the tip of the iceberg, it will be hard to say how it will damage the community after the KS ends from claims of scamming to unethical conduct.

Of course, if that doesn't happen, great! But knowing human nature, there will be a few public cases that will give Hex a black-eye, probably.

One of the advantages of changing this is that it is going to be way easier to spot people that have more than 1 account, as this are the ones that are more likely wanting to resell and do some unethical conduct. As it is now, most multipledger will just have multiple accounts just to get the most out of their pledges. It is a way to "filter" the "I only want to get the free drafts so I make 2-3 accounts " from the I want to resell this accounts and that is why I dont merge

keldrin
06-06-2013, 11:59 PM
If only I could go back and 3x PP. :)

or better still GK and 2x PP. :cool:

ForgedSol
06-07-2013, 12:04 AM
One of the advantages of changing this is that it is going to be way easier to spot people that have more than 1 account, as this are the ones that are more likely wanting to resell and do some unethical conduct. As it is now, most multipledger will just have multiple accounts just to get the most out of their pledges. It is a way to "filter" the "I only want to get the free drafts so I make 2-3 accounts " from the I want to resell this accounts and that is why I dont merge

Question. How do you feel about someone reselling their account 6 months from now if they realize they don't like the game? I really don't have any problem with that.

I also don't have problems with people multi-boxing, because I may be naive on the MMO side, but I don't see how that's that big of a deal.

I also know for sure that Magic allows for multiple accounts, and as far as I know, there's no vast cheating scandal that's come from that, why would it be any different for Hex? (Barring gaming the VIP system, which Cryptozoic said they have ways of detecting that.)

keldrin
06-07-2013, 12:07 AM
Yes people are going to do it anyway, and btw right now if you pledge GK and RL, you only get 1 free draft a week for life.( The 1 year free draft a week streach goal for RL is lost in the void )

and don't forget, the raid leader benefit is lost to the void to, since it's part of the GK already. You should be able to get 2 raid leaders blessing cards!
But yeah, I get your point.

Ozmono
06-07-2013, 12:13 AM
Question. How do you feel about someone reselling their account 6 months from now if they realize they don't like the game? I really don't have any problem with that.

I also don't have problems with people multi-boxing, because I may be naive on the MMO side, but I don't see how that's that big of a deal.

I also know for sure that Magic allows for multiple accounts, and as far as I know, there's no vast cheating scandal that's come from that, why would it be any different for Hex? (Barring gaming the VIP system, which Cryptozoic said they have ways of detecting that.)

Well I would think they would want to encourage people to merge their accounts because of some of the questions you raised. If I multibox in a draft I have a pretty big advantage if I can handle the pace which I'm sure some people could (Not me personally). Will people do it and do they do it on other games like MTGO? I honestly don't know but I can see an advantage if they did.

Personally I'm not even thinking about doing it, I cannot think that quick and I'm not looking to exploit the drafts.

Someone posted here that they had confirmation from CZE that they didn't have a problem with people not merging their accounts in order to get the two drafts a week and no one from CZE has corrected him or responded to me openly suggesting that's what I'll do. So that's what I'll be doing. As someone with a RL and DC it pains me to do it though as it will be a serious inconvenience to be constantly trading my PVE decks around and that's not even assuming that Cory might have got it right and DC might work for raids too. Considering I'm a DC and RL that would be an annoyance too.

Anyway back to the point, I would think it would be in their interest to encourage people to merge their accounts.

hammer
06-20-2013, 02:06 AM
We still need clarity on Multiple $250 Tier Kickstarter Management.

I have 2 Collector Tier and obviously want to maximise what I get for the donated $500 without breaking the Terms and conditions or risking action against my account(s)

1) Can I keep both tiers as seperate accounts (both in my name) to retain 1 year free draft on both accounts; effectively one will become a ghost account only donating the AA cards to the main account after year 1?

2) For the "non-stackable" I assumed it meant the years do not stack, Ie if you have 2 tiers you cannot take a draft a week in year 1 and stack the second account so that you continue the free draft a week into Year 2. But can you combine two accounts so that you have 2 free drafts a week in year 1 as oppose to 1 a week?

I would prefer to go with Option 1 and have two seperate accounts, keep the drafts, and also have an account for my spare / tradeable cards. Assuming I only sign the main account up to the VIP (After the KS free months) will I be in violtation if I do this. What about when one of the accounts becomes a ghost account after year 1 will I be breaking any T&C's -

I really would like clarity on what is allowed before we receive communication and forms to intiate KS Merger. Again I dont want to break the rules but I would like clarification on what is allowed.

Thanks

jaxsonbateman
06-20-2013, 02:10 AM
You don't have to merge if you don't want to; I asked them directly what the limitations were (as I was considering keeping RL and DC separate for the extra year of drafintg), and they told me I could have two and pretty much do anything normal with them, except sign up for VIP with both.

For Collector, there's virtually no reason to merge.

On point 2 though, they don't stack in any way, shape or form. You can't get 2 drafts a week if you merge, and you can't draft for 2 years if you merge. If you merge, you lose one of the bonuses entirely.