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View Full Version : Staying one step ahead: Provide Translation.



Bells
06-05-2013, 10:17 PM
What just might be a challenge now, could be an edge in the future.

Hex has already a lot of things going for it. Taking full advantage of online and MMO-like features that a physical game could never pull off properly. There is one more Key component that would be a HUGE help, and it is 100% doable.

Give us translation to the game. Actually, if you allow Backers or Beta testers to sign up to BE translators we would probably do the hard work FOR YOU. For free. Feel like paying your backers back? Give us some boosters if you must and everything will be awesomely fine.

Never underestimate the huge approach that having access to a game like this in our native tongues can do to broaden player base, allow for ease of access of new players, allow to make the entry bar lower without watering down the experience and breaking the limitation that MOST TCG's have. Specially the ones in Physical form.

Besides, the nature of an Online PC game like this allows you to do something remarkable. We are all working out of the same Database of cards. Everything is the same for everyone, so perhaps you don't have to dub anything, hell, you don't even have to translate the game 100%... but if you just translate the cards (at first) that's already a HUGE selling point that goes beyong what ANY other TCG offers on the market today (and ever...)

Here if the fun part though... the nature of an PC game, and an Online MMO, allows me to see the game in one language, while i play with another player who sees the exact same things as i do, but in HIS native language. Translations can be local. And don't effect the gameplay experience one bit. Make it smarter if you must, translate the text in the cards and when howering the mouse over the text, a small bubble can come out with the english version of that text, allowing for the flow of communication between players to still be accessible and not get literally lost in translation. Preventing the formation of "player islands". Bringing people together instead of setting apart.

And you don't have to create duplicates of each card just to have them in another language. You can simply make the card file call to a corresponded text file in the choose language of the game client being used. That way, translation is simple, clean, fast, and has zero impact in game size or server loads at all.

I believe this is something to put down for the near feature, because it would be amazing to have that option. Be able to present a new game to my friends who don't speak english, but just as i, wish to have an alternative.

This is a selling point. A major one not being used. Please don't understimate it's value.

TheDiv
06-05-2013, 10:20 PM
I can only speak English so I can't help with translating. But I support this 100%!

dogmod
06-05-2013, 10:21 PM
What just might be a challenge now, could be an edge in the future.

Hex has already a lot of things going for it. Taking full advantage of online and MMO-like features that a physical game could never pull off properly. There is one more Key component that would be a HUGE help, and it is 100% doable.

Give us translation to the game. Actually, if you allow Backers or Beta testers to sign up to BE translators we would probably do the hard work FOR YOU. For free. Feel like paying your backers back? Give us some boosters if you must and everything will be awesomely fine.

Never underestimate the huge approach that having access to a game like this in our native tongues can do to broaden player base, allow for ease of access of new players, allow to make the entry bar lower without watering down the experience and breaking the limitation that MOST TCG's have. Specially the ones in Physical form.

Besides, the nature of an Online PC game like this allows you to do something remarkable. We are all working out of the same Database of cards. Everything is the same for everyone, so perhaps you don't have to dub anything, hell, you don't even have to translate the game 100%... but if you just translate the cards (at first) that's already a HUGE selling point that goes beyong what ANY other TCG offers on the market today (and ever...)

Here if the fun part though... the nature of an PC game, and an Online MMO, allows me to see the game in one language, while i play with another player who sees the exact same things as i do, but in HIS native language. Translations can be local. And don't effect the gameplay experience one bit. Make it smarter if you must, translate the text in the cards and when howering the mouse over the text, a small bubble can come out with the english version of that text, allowing for the flow of communication between players to still be accessible and not get literally lost in translation. Preventing the formation of "player islands". Bringing people together instead of setting apart.

And you don't have to create duplicates of each card just to have them in another language. You can simply make the card file call to a corresponded text file in the choose language of the game client being used. That way, translation is simple, clean, fast, and has zero impact in game size or server loads at all.

I believe this is something to put down for the near feature, because it would be amazing to have that option. Be able to present a new game to my friends who don't speak english, but just as i, wish to have an alternative.

This is a selling point. A major one not being used. Please don't understimate it's value.

He announced in a geek twitch stream today that it is in the works but couldn't be promised at launch... I like crowdsourcing

Mr.Funsocks
06-05-2013, 11:09 PM
Yeah, Cory said they were talking to overseas partners. He also called it "morally" right to support other languages, so I'm gonna guess it will make it in at some point regardless.

I don't really get why companies aren't willing to crowdsource translations. It's a lot of work, but not for people who both speak the language and are intimately familiar with the game. It can't be that hard to set up an effective way of doing it.

Patrigan
06-05-2013, 11:15 PM
The danger with crowdsourcing is this: Let's take this english cardlike sentence:
"This troop deals 4 damage to target troop."

Yet me "translate" it for you to Dutch.

"Deze troep doet 4 stronten op die troep."

Now let me actually translate it for you:

"Deze troep doet 4 schade op die troep."

Want to know what I originally had for damage? "Shit". Now this is a blatant error and can easily be caught using a translator.

But more comically is the word "troep". It actually is the translation of troop, but means more like "a gang" or "a crew". However, it also means "messy" and "dirty", not the kind of word you want to be using. "This mess deals 4 damage to target mess."? This is a small nuance, but really could put off people in playing the game.

Willzyx
06-05-2013, 11:15 PM
I don't really get why companies aren't willing to crowdsource translations.

Because you want the translated product to have the same quality, consistency, and polish as the native-language product. With the amount of QA you'd need for crowd-sourced translations, you might as well just do it all.

Ozmono
06-05-2013, 11:17 PM
Yeah, Cory said they were talking to overseas partners. He also called it "morally" right to support other languages, so I'm gonna guess it will make it in at some point regardless.

I don't really get why companies aren't willing to crowdsource translations. It's a lot of work, but not for people who both speak the language and are intimately familiar with the game. It can't be that hard to set up an effective way of doing it.
I think the problem with crowdsourcing translations would be related to trust and quality. By that I mean that the only way you know your brand image isn't being hurt by poor translation or worse intentionally offensive translations would be to check up on it. If you can do that, I don't suppose it's a vastly greater step to just having the people checking the translations, to do the translations in the first place.

Mr.Funsocks
06-05-2013, 11:21 PM
Yes, but the joy of crowdsourcing is you DON'T trust 1 person to do it. You leave it out to many people who speak that language, someone'll correct it. And if they don't, it's digital. Not like it's hard to fix. And the troop distinction Patrigan pointed out is a good reason why crowdsourcing is better. The crowds KNOW what "troop" is supposed to mean in the game, an offsite developer may very well not.

larryhl
06-05-2013, 11:24 PM
I have done freelance translating English - Chinese and Chinese - English. This is for both written and spoken. I'd be willing to offer my services here if they decide they ever need them.

Mr.Funsocks
06-05-2013, 11:25 PM
I'd happily help translate to... well... nothing.

Sadly, with all 6 foreign languages I've learned, no one around me speaks them and I now know how to count and maybe say hello.

Pentregarth
06-06-2013, 12:40 AM
Sadly, with all 6 foreign languages I've learned, no one around me speaks them and I now know how to count and maybe say hello.

Yeah, I know that...Apart from english, no foreign language I ever learned really stuck ^^

That being said, I could help with english - german translation, if anybody wants to play sauerkraut HEX ;)

Keznath
06-06-2013, 01:06 AM
"This troop deals 4 damage to target troop."

Yet me "translate" it for you to Dutch.

"Deze troep doet 4 stronten op die troep."



So let me translate it for you in french :

"Cette troupe inflige 4 dommages à la troupe ciblée"

but the word "troupe" is not really used, maybe the word "unité" will be better...

CZE if you need help to translate, tell us...!

Verdant
06-06-2013, 01:10 AM
Well, I guess I'm gonna take a look at the cards from Russian point of view later on.

Swordmage
06-06-2013, 02:36 AM
As a FR-EN/EN-FR professional translator, allow me to add +1 to saying that crowdsourcing is a terrible, terrible idea for translation. I'd happily translate this game in a professional capacity. Hell, I'd probably accept to be paid in boosters or platinum! But trusting on fans to do it for free out of love for the game is just asking for trouble.

FranzVonG
06-06-2013, 02:44 AM
You can usually do a decent translation with crowd-sourcing if you take two steps before:

- appoint a "translator leader" (maybe paid with in-game currency/booster) to finalize and approve the translations
- create a glossary before giving the actual content to translate, to have an harmonized translation

Also, being the game digital, what you write on the card does not change its actual use within the system, so gamers will easily spot wrongly translated cards

TrickyMartin
06-06-2013, 02:52 AM
As a FR-EN/EN-FR professional translator, allow me to add +1 to saying that crowdsourcing is a terrible, terrible idea for translation. I'd happily translate this game in a professional capacity. Hell, I'd probably accept to be paid in boosters or platinum! But trusting on fans to do it for free out of love for the game is just asking for trouble.


As a professional ENG - PL/ PL - ENG translator with over 10 years of experience in the field, I would like to agree with my French/English friend :-) Silly idea to crowdsource. However if you want a solid and thought through translation still done by people who ACTUALLY play the game and know about it, instead of putting off phrases and words through translators who just 'do their job and are not up to speed in the topic of the text' (believe me I have seen many such butchered translations where the person doing it did not have the required knowledge in the subject and did not for example chose the appropriate phrasing even with help of professional dictionaries, etc.) a good idea would be to 'hire' translators from within the fan base, on a usual hiring basis, even if it would mean CVs, proof reads of sample translation texts etc. I would be the first to apply, and would be happy to acquire payment in boosters :D or anything else Hex related ;P This way you would collect people who would gladly work on translating the game THEY would later play and they would translate it in a way they would be happy and excited about seeing later.

Keznath
06-06-2013, 03:06 AM
You, professionnal translators are aware of deckbuilding cos YOU ARE players, so i can trust you better than an other guy who'll be a translator without any knowledge of TCG games...

Happy to see you among us :)

Zomnivore
06-06-2013, 03:12 AM
Could definitely help them keep a hold of foreign markets where this sort of game idea will surely be cloned.

larryhl
06-06-2013, 03:17 AM
Could definitely help them keep a hold of foreign markets where this sort of game idea will surely be cloned.

Heh...every time I see a badly translated Chinese pay to win MMO, my first reaction is, if you pay me I'll edit all the text for you.

blakegrandon
06-06-2013, 04:16 AM
Could definitely help them keep a hold of foreign markets where this sort of game idea will surely be cloned.

It'll still be cloned, because companies and people will still try to make a profit by making it cheaper or free.

Localization isn't as simple as allowing people to crowdsource translate it, you would need to allow people the ability to "edit" the game on some level or have a platform where they can change the cards. Then you need people to go through and vet each card, making sure someone didn't slip something in. It would one person with a botnet to insert a card and "crowd" vet it to lead to embarrassment for Cryptozoic.

I wish Localization/translation was easier, but unfortunately due to there being so many languages it's easier to add it afterwards than it is to start with it.

Mr.Funsocks
06-06-2013, 09:20 AM
You can usually do a decent translation with crowd-sourcing if you take two steps before:

- appoint a "translator leader" (maybe paid with in-game currency/booster) to finalize and approve the translations
- create a glossary before giving the actual content to translate, to have an harmonized translation

Also, being the game digital, what you write on the card does not change its actual use within the system, so gamers will easily spot wrongly translated cards

Yerp. Crowdsourcing doesn't necessarily mean "complete free for all." Look at how goddamn effective Wikipedia is. Each section has a few experts in charge of maintaining accuracy and sorta proofreading everything, but everyone can contribute and its become the best store of all human knowledge.

Bells
06-06-2013, 05:14 PM
I'm actually really glad to see this thread this big already. It shows support for something that would improve the game and the player base even thought not all players will likely use it. This is a very good sign actually, shows an invested player based interested in having a good environment to play a good game.

All the more reason to do it, i guess.

Proziam
06-06-2013, 05:44 PM
Pulse Esports (My company) has a handful of interested and multi-lingual staff who can assist. We have people who speak Chinese, German, Swedish, and others as well. So, if Cryptozoic is interested we'd be happy to work out a way to pitch into the effort :)

EDIT - I'm an idiot and keep forgetting to clarify things to avoid confusion.

JBento
06-06-2013, 05:47 PM
I'll volunteer my services for a translation to Portuguese - I'm not a professional translator (by which I mean I don't get paid to do the ones I do), but Portuguese IS my first language.

Proziam
06-06-2013, 05:48 PM
It'll still be cloned, because companies and people will still try to make a profit by making it cheaper or free.

Localization isn't as simple as allowing people to crowdsource translate it, you would need to allow people the ability to "edit" the game on some level or have a platform where they can change the cards. Then you need people to go through and vet each card, making sure someone didn't slip something in. It would one person with a botnet to insert a card and "crowd" vet it to lead to embarrassment for Cryptozoic.

I wish Localization/translation was easier, but unfortunately due to there being so many languages it's easier to add it afterwards than it is to start with it.

This is not necessarily true. All they really need to do is make a form where people can go in, apply the proper definitions to the card shown, and then view other people's submissions to the same card. This allows the general populace to vet the accuracy so it will limit the amount of policing Crypto actually has to do. If a submission is reported, then they have to check it. If not, and it's been observed by several accounts then it is likely fine and they wouldn't need the fine tooth comb.

Telmon
06-06-2013, 06:06 PM
I'll volunteer my services for a translation to Portuguese - I'm not a professional translator (by which I mean I don't get paid to do the ones I do), but Portuguese IS my first language.

Wow! Thats nice! Brazilian portuguese or from Europe?

Btw, vai jogar como Ardent our Underworld?

JBento
06-07-2013, 05:29 AM
Português de Portugal.

Estou a pensar ir de Ardent.

Xoota
06-07-2013, 07:16 AM
I'm a translation professional myself, having worked for several companies as project manager and now I work as a freelance translator.

Here is my two cents.

To do a localization right, there must be several stages involved.

First, from the dev end, there must be somone in charge of a process called internationalization. That's the work of making the translations friendly, easier for the translators. This work involves setting the terminology right (elaboration of glossaries), avoiding use of different instances of the same sentence for saying the same thing (which is actually done in cards), and stuff like making identificators localization friendly (which is a stage that it's not done in 90% of the games localized and that would help increasing the quality of the translations a lot).

For example, in dungeon 1, character lines could be like this:
Dungeon_1_Shinhare_1 Hello.
Dungeon_1_Dwarf_1 Hello. How are you?
Dungeon_1_Shinhare_2 Fine, thanks.

Which in a translation end, would end up like this
Dungeon_1_Dwarf_1 Hello. How are you?
Dungeon_1_Shinhare_1 Hello.
Dungeon_1_Shinhare_2 Fine, thanks.

Because a good order wouldn't be provided. A game of this nature needs a good internationalization stage, because of the branching nature of the dungeons. Also, there are a lot of things that must be taken account (as in any MMO). For example, variables if the player is male or female, see if socketing causes gender problems (perhaps a sword with a gem of fire changes to a fire sword, and the game has the word fire in one side and the word sword in the other, which causes problems when you have a fire shield), etc.
Also, the internationalization guy is the one providing support to the localization stage, and answers to any questions that the translations may face during translation.

After that, you have the translators.
Crowdsourcing is never going to be a good option, if you want to do it professionally. Why? Because in this game, to do it cost-efficiently with quality, you'll need translators that can and should make good use of CAT tools, computer assisted tools. In those cat tools you'll have termbases (which will have a glossary of all those things needed), translation memories and QA Tools. Those three are absolutely needed in a game of this characteristics, because it ensures consistency. I'm not saying that it's a one-man work (which in an RPG is absolutely insane inviable), but a well-oiled team with several stages involved and that are capable of using those cat tools is necessary. Translators with constant communication, one proofreader that ensures that everything is alright, etc. etc.

Moreover, there is an added problem with crowdsourcing: confidential information can be leaked and will be leaked without penalty for the leaker.

Then there is another stage, and that's Localization Testing and Quality Assurance. Assurance that Guideline terms for Apple, Android, Windows Phone, are respected, seeing that no translation goes beyond space constraints, issues like double-spaces, typos, etc. ensuring that there are no profanities...

All in all... As a user, and as a professional... I wouldn't go crowdsourcing.

Xoota
06-07-2013, 07:21 AM
Oh, and I forgot to mention. A game like HEX TCG, so community dependant, would need people working for the community... So no language-community "dies" and to ensure that everyone behaves correctly...

Not to mention a lot of added problems for the internationalization side. If there are multiplayer raids or dungeons... Are the spanish speaking people only paired with spanish speaking players? How will three players from different countries and different languages selected going to co-operate?