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View Full Version : Mass confusion re: Dungeon Crawler 100% loot bonus and Raids



Avignon
06-06-2013, 06:19 AM
I am seeing both people saying you definetely get it and other say you definetely do not get it. I see people super excited about getting Dungeon Crawler because of extra loot in raids, and others who know that it doesnt work in raids but are happy in any case.

I am thinking there will be a big blowup after the kickstarter ends if people realised that it doesnt apply on raids, or if it does apply on raids and people passed it up thinking it doesnt apply.

Has anyone seen any clarification since the twitch.tv cast on 05/06? I think Cory's comments are conflicting with other developers comments from the day before.

I am sitting on a Dungeon Crawler, but will pass it up instantly if I find out it doesnt apply to raids. Not much time left though...

jai151
06-06-2013, 06:21 AM
You definitely do not get it in raids. Confirmed in the Twitch on Monday.

EDIT: Sorry, the Euro style date threw me off. What was the conflicting comment Cory made and where?

Trothael
06-06-2013, 06:22 AM
Last night on the WeekInGeek interview, Cory outright confirmed that you do get the DC bonus in both raids and dungeons, saying that the idea when they made the buff was "whenever you're rolling loot, you're rolling again".

However, he also said that he wasn't sure if that was the case, as it might have been changed without his knowledge. So it could go either way.

Tyrfang
06-06-2013, 06:23 AM
jai151 - Cory mentioned that every player in the party gets a separate loot roll, and then dungeon crawlers get two loot rolls, so the chat got confused and asked if DC applied to raids.

He said "as far as I know, yes."

That was yesterday afternoon, and here we are.

MrSeriousBsns
06-06-2013, 06:24 AM
I think Cory's statement was "as far as I know, the DC bonus works for raids"... and I don't believe there has been any clarification since then.

While that does leave them some wiggle room to backtrack, every time Crypto has had to make a ruling so far about ambiguous benefits, they've ruled in favor of providing more to the customer instead of less.

I'll also be watching to see when this has been officially clarified.

snarvid
06-06-2013, 06:50 AM
I think Cory's statement was "as far as I know, the DC bonus works for raids"... and I don't believe there has been any clarification since then.

While that does leave them some wiggle room to backtrack, every time Crypto has had to make a ruling so far about ambiguous benefits, they've ruled in favor of providing more instead of less.

I'll also be watching to see when this has been officially clarified.

I think any plain reading of the benefit would assume it does, and therefore whatever the original intent it will now.

Are raids in dungeons? Yes. Do they have bosses? Yep.

Also - article on Kraken refers to it as a dungeon, article of raids refers to Kraken as a raid.

http://hextcg.com/the-krakens-lair/
http://hextcg.com/dragon-slaying/

So stuff on their own website conflates the two.

jai151
06-06-2013, 06:52 AM
I think any plain reading of the benefit would assume it does, and therefore whatever the original intent it will now.

Are raids in dungeons? Yes. Do they have bosses? Yep.

Also - article on Kraken refers to it as a dungeon, article of raids refers to Kraken as a raid.

http://hextcg.com/the-krakens-lair/
http://hextcg.com/dragon-slaying/

So stuff on their own website conflates the two.

In that particular instance, there's the Kraken dungeon, where you start in the town and choose your path, and when you beat that it unlocks the raid on the Kraken boss.

caffn8d
06-06-2013, 06:56 AM
Well, a lot of the dungeons are kinda both. You complete the dungeon and then that unlocks the associated boss raid. Kraken is a perfect example. I never even considered that the Dungeon Crawler bonus *wouldn't* apply to both types of boss encounters (raid and dungeon), though I can see now from the wording of that tier that it might be construed that way. I'd be interested to hear official word.

ShaolinRaven
06-06-2013, 06:57 AM
I think any plain reading of the benefit would assume it does, and therefore whatever the original intent it will now.

Are raids in dungeons? Yes. Do they have bosses? Yep.

Also - article on Kraken refers to it as a dungeon, article of raids refers to Kraken as a raid.

http://hextcg.com/the-krakens-lair/
http://hextcg.com/dragon-slaying/

So stuff on their own website conflates the two.

Some of the raids are tied to dungeons. Once you beat the dungeon you unlock the raid encounter for it, so there will be other dungeons that are both single player and raid depending on dungeon instance. But the raid is just the 2 or 3 or whatever stage boss fight.

Avignon
06-06-2013, 07:03 AM
On twitch yesterday was at 1:06 roughly (1 hour 6 minutes), although he did say "unless it was changed and I wasn't told about it".

Here's hoping for clarification beforehand. I am tossing up as to if I drop a pro tier for dungeon crawler. The answer on this will sway me one way or the other.

maniza
06-06-2013, 07:16 AM
as said before if cory said that it works on raids it will most likely(even if it wasent inteded to)work in raids. they like giving more to ppl instead of less.

AstaSyneri
06-06-2013, 07:37 AM
It would certainly help to sell the Raid Leader Tier. At least how that works is clarified now (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=24626).

Erebus
06-06-2013, 07:41 AM
Actually it'd be worse for the Raid Leader Tier. As the reason DC didn't work in raids was to make the RL look a little better.

Granted it might encourage stacking RL onto DC.

jaxsonbateman
06-06-2013, 07:52 AM
Yeah, if I had a RL tier, and suddenly it was revealed DC loot bonus worked in raids, I might be a little peeved that it wasn't revealed until DC ran out. A slightly harder raid experience is probably worth it for double loot.

Ch33ky
06-06-2013, 08:06 AM
I too would like a final word on this.

Can anyone think of a way where they could announce something where both RL and DC are happy with the outcome?

Ryoma_Echizen
06-06-2013, 08:18 AM
RL gets double loot in raids.
DC gets double loot in raids.
Everyone is a winner.

jai151
06-06-2013, 08:20 AM
I too would like a final word on this.

Can anyone think of a way where they could announce something where both RL and DC are happy with the outcome?

Honestly, I'd like to see it be RL gets the raid loot bonus and DC gets the dungeon bonus, but I'd see that as causing issues.

Maybe reverse their earlier position on the RL bonus and give them the extra card in hand and in play in all PVE content and let the DC get bonus loot in all PVE content?

Priest
06-06-2013, 08:43 AM
How about give RL the DC bonus if there is a DC in the party and have DC always get the double drop.

wildcard
06-06-2013, 12:23 PM
Final update has confirmed, DC bonus does NOT apply to raids. Big fat bummer. Going to be a lot of angry backers that missed it in this update I think.

Lochar
06-06-2013, 12:24 PM
Final update has confirmed, DC bonus does NOT apply to raids. Big fat bummer. Going to be a lot of angry backers that missed it in this update I think.

If you're a backer and you're not reading updates then upon your own head be it.

jaxsonbateman
06-06-2013, 12:24 PM
Dag nabbit. While I didn't expect it to (as you'd get a few of the small number of RLs upset that they didn't take DC instead), if it had applied it would've made my decision to merge my tiers a cinch. Now I still have to give something up either way (convenience or a year of drafting).

Gwaer
06-06-2013, 12:28 PM
So far all of my suppositions based on their statements have been accurate. Including DC not working for raid loot.

The final supposition that I have made based on all the information thus far is that RL WILL work in multiplayer dungeons whenever they come out. Take that as you will.

panzer
06-06-2013, 01:26 PM
I might end up switching my DC to collector; something to watch for.

wildcard
06-06-2013, 04:35 PM
If you're a backer and you're not reading updates then upon your own head be it.

Yeah, because that's how you ensure quality customer service. :confused: How about the comment threads that follow the updates? Because in there CZE said "The Raid Leader bonuses only apply to Raids." which contradicts the very text of the pledge reward: "+1 Card in the opening hand of all players grouped with “The Raid Leader” in non-tournament PVE content FOR LIFE of the game!" ... pretty sure there's non-tournament PVE content that isn't a raid, right?

Look, I'm not saying CZE can't change their minds and alter the deal, but with less than 24 hours left in the campaign, I can guarantee you there will be backers coming forward that weren't looking for significant changes in what appears to be the consensus understanding of the tiers in the last day of the campaign. People have been asking these questions for weeks. In the case of RL that's only about 100 people now, plus the GK that were expecting it. DC is 1000 backers though, and while there may be "dungeon bosses" that are solo encounters instead of group encounters (so the bonus still applies there), I don't think anyone expected "raid bosses at the end of a dungeon" to be outside the scope of "dungeon bosses". Even Cory seems to have understood it that way.

jai151
06-06-2013, 04:38 PM
There isn't non tournament GROUPED PvE that isn't a raid

Gwaer
06-06-2013, 04:39 PM
There isn't non tournament GROUPED PvE that isn't a raid
They've said multiplayer dungeons are in the works.

EntropyBall
06-06-2013, 04:42 PM
Look, I'm not saying CZE can't change their minds and alter the deal, but with less than 24 hours left in the campaign, I can guarantee you there will be backers coming forward that weren't looking for significant changes in what appears to be the consensus understanding of the tiers in the last day of the campaign. People have been asking these questions for weeks. In the case of RL that's only about 100 people now, plus the GK that were expecting it. DC is 1000 backers though, and while there may be "dungeon bosses" that are solo encounters instead of group encounters (so the bonus still applies there), I don't think anyone expected "raid bosses at the end of a dungeon" to be outside the scope of "dungeon bosses". Even Cory seems to have understood it that way.

The way it works is how it has always been understood to work. They have directly answered this question before. For like 12 hours people thought it *might* work another way, but this is far from "changing their minds and altering the deal". And the raid bosses aren't necessarily at the end of a dungeon. You unlock them by completing a dungeon, but they aren't the same thing as the final boss of a dungeon.

Avignon
06-06-2013, 04:49 PM
Good that the concerns were updated. I think most would be hard pressed to argue "Cory said so now I am sad." If you watched that feed, its likely you have read and watched everything else and the message has been pretty clear that the DC bonus was not included in raids.

So order is restored and I drop my DC and keep my 2 x PPs. Now just as to whether I keep the EBK also hmm...

MrSeriousBsns
06-06-2013, 04:58 PM
Even though I thought this might have turned into a "well, Cory said it... so I guess we have to stick to it" sort of situation, I'm fine with the retraction. Like others have said, DC was assumed to not work with raids from day 1.

TheDiv
06-06-2013, 05:31 PM
As a DC, I assumed it was limited to Dungeons. I would've liked if it applied to Raids but if it did I think it''d be fairly if a +100% Raid loot perk be added to RL tier to make it more attractive.

Can't have it all my friends!