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jfour
06-06-2013, 08:18 AM
Apologies if this has been asked before but are there any plans on ever changing cards after release if they turn out way too broken?

The reason I ask is I feel for the cards to have a lasting value it is my opinion that they should be guaranteed not to be changed after release. I know with an entirely digital medium it would be very easy to do, but the collector in me balks at the idea that balance changes could heavily impact the value of my collection. Imagine buying/trading for a very popular strong deck only to find it "nerfed" the next week.

Please put my fears to rest and point me to where they've said they wont do this ever... I'm sure I'm not the only one with this concern.

MatWith1T
06-06-2013, 08:21 AM
Cory said (I believe in the Gamer's Dome podcast) that they don't intend to change/nerf cards after release. If a card is imbalanced, they will ban it for competitive play.

Personally, I prefer nerfing cards... that way if I like a card, but it is imbalanced, I can still use it in a weakened form instead of putting it out to pasture forever. But its a matter of personal preference, and Cory is the guy in charge, so he wins.

Thelaasa
06-06-2013, 08:22 AM
Every single card game ever made has an errata list. The only difference with this game is that they will be able to actually change the text on everyones cards, so everyone always knows what the current rulings on their cards are, instead of having to go print out and sort through a list of errata. Asking for a guarantee to never, ever, under any circumstances change any of the released cards is more than a little silly, in my opinion.

caffn8d
06-06-2013, 08:28 AM
It's a slippery slope and I can see arguments both ways. Right now I believe MatWith1T is correct and Cory has said they do not plan to change cards. However, that does little to ameliorate the original poster's concerns. Since he also said that if a card is creating a serious abuse problem in a format, they will just ban it. Which means the value is still going to drop... though you could play with it against your friends or in other open formats I suppose.

FranzVonG
06-06-2013, 08:28 AM
I'm not really sure how Cory can promise such things, I don't think there's out there a single card-game without errata/banned cards. And to me, banning a card is far worst than changing its effect..

jai151
06-06-2013, 08:29 AM
It's a slippery slope and I can see arguments both ways. Right now I believe MatWith1T is correct and Cory has said they do not plan to change cards. However, that does little to ameliorate the original poster's concerns. Since he also said that if a card is creating a serious abuse problem in a format, they will just ban it. Which means the value is still going to drop... though you could play with it against your friends or in other open formats I suppose.

Actually, value doesn't always drop with a limit or ban, quite often it skyrockets.

jfour
06-06-2013, 08:30 AM
Just so we're clear: MTG (the only real competitive card game we can compare to) has never errata'd a card for balance reasons. The only erratas done were for global mechanics changes, misunderstandings and misprints.

They are also very hesitant to ever ban cards, but I feel banning is much better than changing a card after it has been made.

Changing cards after they have been made is such a slippery slope that I would feel much safer in a guarantee it won't be done for balance reasons.

Ash-Prime
06-06-2013, 08:31 AM
Well, typically eratta has been more for a clarification of intent than a power level one. And it is a rather big deal when you consider people will be spending money on specific cards, that we would like so assurance that those cards wont be changed, therefor dramatically reducing the value by the developers. People don't really like the idea of the developers tampering with the market, it looks fishy and feels crappy. And Cory (as Mat addressed) did say that he intends to avoid changing cards, so there you go.

Of course cards will be banned, it is rather inevitable over the course of a multi-set cycle that some interactions will go unnoticed until they turn the format upside down. By itself that is one of the awesome aspects of the TCG meta. But when you get a specific deck as the clear deck to play, banning will inevitably take place so as to level the playing field. Also a good thing. Variety is necessity in TCGs.

Vorpal
06-06-2013, 08:39 AM
Guys...it's a digital game.

Stop thinking in a mindset with the limitations imposed by physical space.

Suppose you have a card that people have made lots of $$ for and is clearly broken.

You go through and create two copies of the card in the inventory of everyone who has it

First copy is unchanged and banned from competitive play
Second copy is adjusted to be playable

Problem solved. People who think their cards have to be unchanged to retain value are happy, people who think their cards have to be playable to retain value are happy.

For myself, I would much prefer cards be changed so that they are playable, rather than simply banned. I retain SOME value if a card is still playable, no matter how heavily it's nerfed. If it's banned, I retain no value, assuming I bought it to play in a competitive environment (which would of course be the case)

Lastly, this is billed as an MMO. All MMO's push out constant balance changes and adjustments. People should expect them.

fido_one
06-06-2013, 08:40 AM
I'm reading this, good points all around - though I keep on reminding myself that this is a total digital medium, and online other digital TCGs CZE seems to be building this with all the different play styles in the forefront.

As such while I agree that banning a card from certain play styles would be painful, they would have the ability to offset that as they know who has the cards that are being banned [and how they got those cards]. So if they banned a card they would have the ability to give you another card in return if they wanted to, or a digital pony, or a nice, specialized 'I'm sorry we had to do this!' note. Etc. Etc.

I guess my point is CZE really seems to be using the digital format as a game changer that other DTCGs don't seem to visualize yet,so if they had to do something unpleasant due to a balancing issue they seem more aware of the tools at their disposal to offset the reaction.

Vorpal
06-06-2013, 08:41 AM
Imagine buying/trading for a very popular strong deck only to find it "nerfed" the next week.

Imagine buying/trading for a very popular deck only to find that it is banned from all play next week. That's an even worse situation.

People constantly chasing what is FOTM should expect sometimes to run into nerfs.

jfour
06-06-2013, 08:42 AM
Lastly, this is billed as an MMO. All MMO's push out constant balance changes and adjustments. People should expect them.

This is precisely what I am afraid of. If you constantly react to whining about cards being OP or whatever and constantly iterating on balance, you give no time for a meta to develop and adjust to deck, or for new decks to crop up etc. Instead, decks are just build around the current patch and you just have people loyal to the patch notes as apposed to loyal to their cards/deck building ability.

I do like your idea about banning a card and giving everyone with that card a "balanced" version... Although I would still prefer this was a very very last resort and only happened when a card was very stifling to the meta.